Talk:Sting (musician)/Archive 1

500 million albums?
1. The reference cited for this figure is a bad link.

2. 500 million is unrealistically high or any artist other than the Beatles or Elvis Presley. See this article for details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists#300_million_to_499_million_records —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mister Tog (talk • contribs) 04:31, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Origin of his nickname
Added a note about how he was the inspiration for Constantine from Hellblazer. --- Is there any truth in the rumour that he got the nickname "Sting" from the yellow-and-black jerseys he used to wear? // Liftarn


 * Most likely, yes. From an interview at Sting.com: Wearing a black and yellow striped jersey while playing with a local jazz band earned him the nickname “Sting.” It stuck.


 * From a Sting FAQ: There are several different accounts on how he became known as 'Sting'. I think the most plausible, which is also the most popular is the one which claims he got his name whilst in a band called the Phoenix Jazzmen, he used to wear a black/yellow-striped top which made him look like a bee - Hence the nickname 'Sting'.


 * From another Sting FAQ: He received the nickname Sting while a member of The Phoenix Jazzmen. Everyone in the band had a nickname. One day Sting came to a rehearsal in a striped soccer sweater and the trombone player, Gordon Solomon, remarked that Sting looked like a bee. This led to him being called "Stinger" - which eventually became "Sting."


 * On another note, this article needs an actual bio. Right now it's just a list of facts most of which have nothing to do with why he should be in an encyclopedia. :) Maybe I'll get started on that tomorrow. --Mrwojo 15:06 Jan 13, 2003 (UTC)


 * Definitely. From Message In A Box: "... a waspish yellow-and-black striped sweater earned him that perfect nickname". Jkruis 16:11, 6 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Is it strange to anyone but me that his initials backwards spell "STING" (If you allow for the M being an IN run together)? BrianFennell 22:58, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

No. TheScotch (talk) 10:27, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

are their any sources about bipolar depression and sting? Someone recently made an edit on Björk claiming she is bipolar. But this was deleted because of no reliable information - it seems to be only an rumour. But maybe both suffer under a less problematic disorder called Cyclothymia oder Bipolar II - depressive episodes with episodes of weak mania. This can be treated with lithium, but lithium or other phase stabilizers are not a necessary medication. I've had a friend who was suffering under this disorder IMO - weak mania may be a state which is very productive to artists like my friend or the above mentioned musicians - and some ideas are a product of depression. Rabauz 12:01, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Mania is characterized by unproductive, more or less random, hyperactivity. A relatively "weak" mania may thus be less unproductive, but anything of worth produced by someone in a manic state is most likely produced despite the mania, strong or weak, not because of it--which, come to think of it, might explain Bjork after all. More generally, creative is not crazy. TheScotch (talk) 10:35, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

I thought it might have com from being in Police ( Police Sting )

Lithium
Lithium is an element and cannot spontaneously arise in the brain. It can be released from a gland or from vesicles within cells, or it could be generally released into the blood stream from a gland elsewhere in the body - I'm no expert on lithium metabolism; but to refer to the "occurrence of lithium in the brain when one views a sunset" seems severely misguided.
 * That's a good point, and I've edited the article to reflect the inaccuracy. The whole item seems a little overdetailed, especially without a confirmed quote. --Dhartung | Talk 08:44, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

While lithium cannot spontaneously arise in the brain, you can absorb lithium from the sun. Small amounts of lithium can be absorbed by the body, mainly through the eyes, which is what Stings song "Lithium Sunset" deals with. Lithium is soothing to a person, even one who is not bi-polar, whish is why watching sunrise and sunsets is so peaceful and relaxing. ATaylor0927--ATaylor0927 08:53, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to add some other perspective: Lithium is a chemical element not a particle of radiation from the Sun. Lithium exists only as compounds on the earth as it is unstable. Sting's song 'Lithium Sunset' is probably actually about him taking Lithium for his Bipolar Disorder. Note in the lyrics where he mentions 'I've been knocked out of the race. I will get better with your light on my face' etc. This is a metaphor. Note that in Sting's book of lyrics 'Sting Lyrics' he mentions that a Shaman told him that Lithium could be absorbed through the eye and he basically states that he does not understand that, yet he wrote a song about it? No, Sting is playing his usual game with the meaning of some of his songs. Also note Sting's songs: Heavy Cloud No Rain, Dancing In The Rain, Hole In My Life.--Jet999 (talk) 03:34, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

US-centric
This article as it stands only talks about Sting's US sales and successes. It needs a lot of work as it is (how many times did he "kick off" a year?) but as a British artist who enjoys worldwide popularity, this aspect in particular seems rather incongruous. ProhibitOnions 15:57, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

The page 'Sting' to be the musician, or the wrestler, or what?
There is also a Sting in programming I'm not sure if it's a computer language or an operating system, or both. I didn't want to put anything here yet, but if someone else sees this and knows, they can add the link and page. [unsigned]


 * There is a Sting (disambiguation) page that includes that information already. Aguerriero 18:41, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Does anybody know how The Police formed, or where Sting met the other members?
 * Try this article: The Police. &mdash;User:ACupOfCoffee @ 08:55, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Shouldnt "Sting" be the disambiguation page? The wrestler and the singer are both identified by that name almost solely, and Steve Borden has the name trademarked while Gordon Summer does not. IMO, "Sting" should redirect to the wrestler before it redirects to the singer. Tromboneguy0186 05:51, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah I see your point. I suppose I could argue that this Sting is the more mainstream Sting (meaning that more people are familiar with the musician than the wrestler).  But I can definitely get behind making Sting the disambig page. Aguerriero 12:24, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd have to second that the name "Sting" redirect to the disambiguation page and that this article be moved to something like "Sting (musician)" or something. I agee with the argument that Sumner is the more mainstream Sting, but on the grounds that the name Sting is based off Sumner's nickname as opposed to being Borden's true stage name and on the grounds of the trademark (the article even notes that Sumner pays royalties to Borden), they both seem to have equal claims... Clint 02:59, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * A user has twice moved this page to Gordon "Sting" Sumner, a name that I think few would agree to. I have moved it back.


 * As far as the name goes, the royalties matter is irrelevant, as is the matter of a "nickname" versus a "stage name"; both apply to Sting, the musician. The Sting dealt with in this article is famous worldwide and generally needs no introduction; thus, according to Naming conventions (common names), "Sting" should be about him. Outside the professional wrestling community, few will have heard of the other person using the name Sting, even if he was clever enough to trademark it and then demand royalties; this is not the first time something like this has happened.  Pr oh ib it O ni o n s   (T) 15:06, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * There is no trademark registered at the USPTO for "Sting" either by Sumner or Borden. Fans of Borden circulate a rumor that Borden has a trademark and Sumner has to pay him to use it, but this makes little sense if you understand IP law. Among other things, "sting" is a common word that anybody can use. At best, Borden could prevent another wrestler from using the name. Sumner has years of prior usage that would make it difficult for Borden to receive a trademark. That part of the argument is bogus, QED. --Dhartung | Talk 19:13, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's about what I figured, a bit of bogus showmanship on the part of an obscure pro wrestler. Thanks for confirming that. Regards,  Pr oh ib it O ni o n s   (T) 13:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Obscure wrestler I think not. I came here to find info on the wrestler and even though I'm a fan of the singer ... Sting should redirect straight to a disambiguation page. Kyros 04:47, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Borden is obscure outside the world of wrestling, while Sumner is a public figure known worldwide. This isn't a pissing match, it's an encyclopedia, so please focus on that goal. --Dhartung | Talk 01:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * No, that's partially incorrect. Borden does actually have a service mark registered with the USPTO (STING, serial number 74629288, filed in January 1995).  Dozens of other entities have various trademark registrations for STING as well.  None of them have any likely legal bearing on Gordon Sumner, though, and I don't think the wrestler's trademark trivia warrants any mention in an encyclopedia article about Sting the musician. David Koller
 * I stand corrected. link I blame the government (at least their lousy search engine). At any rate, the assertion was that Borden's trademark required Sumner to pay him royalties -- relevant only if true. --Dhartung | Talk 19:43, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Sting actually is the opposite of an obscure wrestler, he's probably one of the biggest names in wrestling. I think this page should be directed to the disambiguation page, since the wrestler Sting has more of a right to the name than the entertainer Sting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.224.222.67 (talk • contribs)


 * The disambig discussion is moot at this time. The consensus is clearly to leave it as is.  Wikipedia specifies that we use the most common names for things.  If you asked 100 people who "Sting" is, the vast majority of them would identify the musician, not the wrestler.  Agreed that he is not obscure within the professional wrestling world, but he is not readily identifiable elsewhere. --  Aguerriero  ( talk ) 14:53, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * If I asked 100 people orally what "sting" means, they would say "bee sting" or the like. In writing the difference between Sting and a sting is clear, but not in talking. Anthony Appleyard 05:23, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I am another who BACKS that this page be renamed Sting (Musician). Anthony Appleyards comments make absolutely no sense whatsoever, as for example - when you say wrestling to many people, they still say WWF. WWF is World Wildlife Fund. So just because the majority of people still call the WWE, WWF, should that be renamed too? Its the law. WWE is now WWE, and Sting is Steve Borden. I personally think that the move to list all Stings in one page, as does the disambiguation page is a must, and I cannot see how difficult it is for one person to click Sting (Musician) from the disambig. page. --Mark 05:58, 6 November 2007 (GMT)

Moving this page from Sting to Sting (musician)
A user queried about me moving this page from Sting to Sting (musician), "the musician is the most important meaning". Perhaps to a pop music fan. But to me and many, I have had to suffer or avoid bee and wasp and nettle stings, and at sea other stinging organisms, much more often than I have had to concern myself with the musician Sting. Ditto likely very many other people. Some animal stings can kill and are a serious medical concern. Anthony Appleyard 16:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't say it was the most "important" meaning, I said it was the most common meaning. That means that it is likely the majority of people typing "Sting" are looking for the article on the musician.  I am aware that there are other important meanings of the word - that is why we have the disambiguation notice at the top of the page. I am in favor of reversing this action. --  Aguerriero  ( talk ) 17:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * This move has happened before, and it has been reverted before. Not only are moves an except to WP:BOLD, there is a history here and you should have apprised yourself of it. Additionally, there seems to be a disassociation now between this article's historical Talk page. Your awareness of policy, then, as well as your attention to detail, are much in evidence, as well as your respect for the consensus-based approach. --Dhartung | Talk 17:33, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I did not find that discussion because I looked for it in Talk:Sting and before I made the move it was already in Talk:Sting (musician). Sorry. Anthony Appleyard 05:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Requested move (old)
Sting (musician) → Sting — primary topic rule, move not discussed on Talk, separated article from Talk page, etc. Dhartung | Talk 18:18, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Survey (old)
Add  * Support   or   * Oppose   on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~.
 * Support - The musician is the obvious and most common use of this term. No consensus or discussion before it was moved to current location. --  Aguerriero  ( talk ) 18:24, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Support, per nom.--NPswimdude500 19:13, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose - too many alternatives, better to leave as a dab. -- Beardo 19:48, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose The word/name is too common. --Wirbelwind ヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 22:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Ditto. The word has too many meanings. The musician may be the single commonest meaning among some music fans, but it is still a minority meaning. Anthony Appleyard 05:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose - there are too many other prominent meanings. --Yath 11:22, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Support, per nom. Most common meaning and it's already at that title.  Saves a click.  Badagnani 11:25, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
Add any additional comments:
 * Closing administrator in any case may wish to see about merging the history of Talk:Sting and Talk:Sting (musician). --Dhartung | Talk 18:18, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I just happened to find myself here, but I do have a comment. There are lots of links on Sting (disambiguation) that are likely targets on a Go to Sting. I think WP:CSB should be considered. Not everyone looking for the Sting article is looking for the musician. There are other demographics to consider. Elliskev 14:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how CSB impacts disambiguation choices. We do have the primary topic guideline as well, because we want the encyclopedia to be most useful for general readers. Anyway, here are some inbound wikilink numbers:
 * Sting: ~700
 * Sting (wrestler): ~225
 * The Sting: ~180
 * Charlotte Sting: ~70
 * Sting operation: ~70
 * Stinger: ~50
 * Sting (Middle Earth): ~40
 * (I didn't count others, they are probably all smaller.)
 * When there is a well known primary meaning for a term or phrase (indicated by a majority of links in existing articles and consensus of the editors of those articles that it will be significantly more commonly searched for and read than other meanings), then that topic may be used for the title of the main article, with a disambiguation link at the top. Where there is no such clearly dominant usage there is no primary topic page.
 * I think that Sting, the musician, is "clearly dominant" and "significantly more commonly searched for". I concede that some editors may disagree that these numbers are sufficiently dominant. I don't think there is really any question that keeping the musician article here conforms to the guideline. --Dhartung | Talk 07:29, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Main photograph
Ugh, that photo is terrible. It looks like some kid went to work on it with a copy of MS Paint. I know it is from the commons, but surely we can come up with something better? Anyone want to look for a better photo? Aguerriero 20:39, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Catholicism
Sting is a former Catholic, and has chosen a different religion entirely. So why is it so important to stress his family's Catholic beliefs, taking up the first few lines of his early life section. I feel this aspect of his genealogy is irrelevant, and it would be more appropriate and interesting to the reader to omit Catholic entirely from this article. Gilliamjf 08:18, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it is important for a couple of reasons. First, most people who are raised Catholic are influenced by it in their artistic works, and it colors their life (for better or worse) even if they leave the church.  Second, it is notable that he left the church.  The section would be more complete if someone knows why he left, and to what religion he currently subscribes. Aguerriero 16:13, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, but in the German interwiki article, it starts by saying he is the son of a milkman and a teacher. I feel it clutters this article to include his ethnicity in parentheses.  Gilliamjf 07:31, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I agree that it is out of place in that section, mentioned so prominently. Maybe edit it to be more like the German article, and just put a note at the bottom that he was raised Catholic but since left the church? Aguerriero 13:25, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * is there any reason to state the religion of his wife in the 'personal life' column ? just seems a little odd...


 * I wholeheartedly agree that the endless references to Catholicism are completely misplaced.--Da Kidd 14:37, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

ahpook 17:08, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Personal life
Under Sting's list of properties I've listed his apartment on Newcastle Quayside (even though he is barely there!) hedpeguyuk 17:08, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, if that is the case, I included his country cottage in the Lake District as well, this is featured in The World of Interiors magazine from December 2004.--TarAncalime 12:35, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

With all due respect to the citizens of West Hempstead, New York, the only "sting" that can be associated with this charming town has to do, ironically, with the police: there is no shred of published evidence anywhere suggesting that Sting the musician has never owned property there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.198.115.136 (talk) 13:57, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Money For Nothing
I've heard that the royalties are split 10% Sting and 90% Mark Knopfler, as opposed to the 50/50 described in this article. Anyone know? --67.42.33.65 08:52, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Years active
Under "years active" it lists 1982 to present. Should this not also include his years in the Police? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.216.157.38 (talk • contribs)


 * There doesn't seem to be any clear rule about it. I could go both ways on it, e.g. he was "active" in the Police from '77, or he wasn't active as Sting solo until '82. Then again, there's no easy way to explain the separate stages of a career in an infobox. Right now I think it should be '77. --Dhartung | Talk 01:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Acting
Another movie Sting has appeared in is "The Grotesque". He actually played a leading role in it - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113224/ --66.110.32.56 15:57, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Bring on the Night film
Shouldn't the Bring on the Night film be mentioned? Badagnani 21:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Fuschia Catherine Sumner
The normal spelling of Fuchsia is Fuchsia. Not sure how the lady spells her name. pauldanon
 * NYT has it spelled Fuchsia. As Sting used to be a teacher, I expect he got it correct. --Dhartung | Talk 22:31, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Invited fans on stage
Why is the interesting fact that Sting invited fans up on stage being deleted (twice). IT qualifies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rossdv (talk • contribs)
 * Whether or not it is "interesting," as you say, is a matter of opinion. That it is very trivial is almost without question.  That it is vanity for you to continue to use the article to plug yourself is also without question.  The combination of trivia and vanity is enough, in my opinion, to justify its removal. ---Charles 23:25, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Given this fact was on international TV and still airs today, and is included in Sting's biography, I would say qualifies as more interesting piece of trivia than the name of the guy who teaches Sting Yoga or being the inspiration for the character John Constantine in Hellblazer. I'm surprised you need correcting on this but I wasn't plugging myself.  In fact I never wrote an article about me.  Having said that, are those the trivia involved precluded from contributing interesting, and fun trivia, information on Wikipedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rossdv (talk • contribs)
 * If this is such common knowledge, as you claim, you should have no trouble finding and providing a citation from a notable source for this information. If Sting invited fans at multiple concerts to join him onstage to sing, provide a citation for that fact, without any reference to yourself, and that would qualify as encyclopaedic content.  Otherwise, it will continue to be deleted. ---Charles 06:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * A recent emendation to reliable sources policy states:
 * Some concerns have been raised about the use of YouTube as a source. YouTube is a website where the contributors are unknown, and in which material that may be useful to Wikipedia articles is almost always suspect of copyright violations. As such, linking to video content in YouTube should almost always be avoided as a source.
 * Unless there is an extraordinary circumstance, there is nothing encyclopedic about such links. Certainly, the number of artists who have invited fans on stage is enormous, so this cannot be notable either. --Dhartung | Talk 06:51, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

You seem to be taking this personally. You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this which is strange since I do not know you nor ever met you. It appears this is a personal vendetta of some sort to ensure it DOESN'T qualify on your part. Furthermore you did not address the points about John Constantine in Hellblazer or the yoga instructors name, yet those do not appear anywhere online except the former in ONE VERY obscure course. Why are you not deleting these? But I will endevour to please you, regardless. First off, here is the biography page itself: http://brushwithfame.com/bioscan.php where is starts "In the old days..." and continues to "Now he began asking for Volunteers to step up and play with him." Note this does not soley reference Ross Viner. IT refers to others. Furthermore, there is a VIDEO. What more proof do you need? second off: http://www.stingus.net/forum/threads.php?id=1730_0_13_0_C a guy named Jason Keel http://users.sisna.com/clio95/stingnessjk.html Nate Rudd: http://www.scarlet.nl/~gugten/s19960810.htm Scott Antoine http://users.sisna.com/clio95/stingnesssa.html and this http://users.sisna.com/clio95/stingnessds.html and this http://users.sisna.com/clio95/stingnessfb.html and this http://users.sisna.com/clio95/stingnesste.html Another person: http://users.sisna.com/clio95/stingnesssa.html Famous proposal: http://web.archive.org/web/19990820134956/members.home.net/rockyd7/rock_steady/

That took me about 3 minutes to find.

The official Sting site also has historical concert reviews which have various people singing with him.

This is just to name a few.

Now that I have proven this (again), why are you not deleting reference to Danny Paradise? Also, there is far more evidence Sting did invite fans on stage than the reference to John Constantine. Will you be deleting this too?

And the number of artists to have done this is not enormous. You could say the number of artists practicing yoga is enormous too, yet that is in there. This particular event got wide coverage, including PBS, muchmusic, Real TV, etc.

Since you do not trust youtube i removed that link.
 * I fail to see how any of this proves anything, in fact, I find it difficult to understand. You keep changing the article to include your claim that Sting invited you onstage to sing with him.  Even if this is proven beyond a shadow of doubt, it is not encyclopaedic, as I have already stated above.  A short note in the article that says something to the effect of "on such-and-such tour, Sting regularly invited fans onstage to sing with him," with a reliable source that indicates that this is the case, would be acceptable.  What you keep adding, over and over again, is not acceptable.  And, it will continue to be deleted. ---Charles 07:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Didn't you ask earlier today for other references of this fact then it would appropriate? In fact you said "If this is such common knowledge, as you claim, you should have no trouble finding and providing a citation from a notable source for this information. If Sting invited fans at multiple concerts to join him onstage to sing, provide a citation for that fact, without any reference to yourself, and that would qualify as encyclopaedic content" So I did, several. Did you even look at the links? Again, this seems quite personal to you. I've provided what you asked. Did I date your sister or something ;) (that is a joke). You figured I made it up, so you asked for additional proof. You asked for exteranl references to others doing that so I provided that too-several.  Now you're saying that still isn't good enough? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rossdv (talk • contribs).


 * Ross, your video is very cool, and we all love your enthusiasm about your experience singing with Sting as you've expressed it in various fan forums over the years. However, it probably doesn't deserve mention in a biographical encyclopedia article about the man.  Why don't you start a Wikipedia entry for the song "I'm So Happy" (if one doesn't already exist), and mention his duets with audience members there, where it would be more appropriate? David Koller 07:46, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Sir, That would be fine but I suspect the Theoldanarchist will delete that (he asked for proof and I provided it and above but you'll see that he changed his mind). Besides what is the difference? Why is reference to Danny Paradise OK? Is it the fact I am submitting it? If so no problem. Someone else can. Please explain the difference. Maybe Danny Paradise's name should only appear under "Yoga"? Same thing, isn't? For the record I've never brought up the duet in various forums. But how do you know about it (ross viner's duet)
 * The fact that you are submitting it does indeed run afoul of Wikipedia's conflict of interest guidelines, particularly the Self-promotion section. But more broadly you're just too close to yourself as a subject to be able to judge the importance of events that you're involved in. It is impossible for you to judge the notability of your own duet with an international pop star. I'm sorry to say that I don't think it's very notable at all, even if it may have been a wonderful memory for you. Additionally other editors have agreed that this event is not notable. Wikipedia operations by consensus. Essentially you are one person (with a conflict of interest) pushing a particular position, but the editors of the article generally as a group are objecting. Really, I just don't think it should be a quest of yours to get your name into the Sting article. It's funny that you accuse others of taking this "personally" when it has nothign to do with them personally; this is a pretty obvious instance of psychological projection. --Dhartung | Talk 10:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

You still have not answered the question why Danny Paradise's name is ok, but Ross Viner's is not. You have jumped to a conclusion that (1) I am Ross Viner, and (2) it is not interesting to others. I've yet to hear Danny Paradise name TV about this, yet this video is still airing (which prompted me to put the here). All you are doing is trying to justifying your original opinion it doesn't belong and any evidence contrary you ignore. I was asked to provide further proof of this fact, and I found MORE than enough. The all of the sudden you want to say "too bad" anyways". I think you assumed the writer is Ross Viner, and once you assummed that you it clouded any judgment of whether this fact may be interesting to others or not.  Have you seen the reaction of others while watching the video?  Try passing the name Danny Paradise's name, or John Constantine in Hellblazer tidbit and see if ithe reaction is similar. No, it certainly is personal on your part as you can't admit it is more interesting that Danny Paradise's name, or John Constantine in Hellblazer.  Yet you do not removed those (and still have not explained why it is more appropriate). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rossdv (talk • contribs).

Ross Viner dispute mediation
I wanted to let everyone know that User:Rossdv has taken this trivia (and trivial) dispute to the Mediation Cabal (here: []). In case any of you wish to make any comments. ---Charles 22:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * If it is so trivial, why are you so against it? Isn't Danny Paradise's name trivial?  Isn't the fact Sting inspired Constantine, trivial?  Why do you feel a need to (try and) insult?  Why does this one bother you so much? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rossdv (talk • contribs).


 * The case is now open, and I've temporarily removed the information about Ross Viner from the article pending the closure of the case. Please do not revert. --nkayesmith 05:44, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Update on the mediation case:
 * Nkayesmith has discussed the issue with Rossdv and he seems to be calming down a bit.
 * Rossdv still claims he is not Ross Viner, although someone using the ID Rossdv on YouTube claimed he was Ross Viner.
 * Given these indications of sockpuppetry, I'm curious whether they are the same person. I would ask Rossdv to just come clean as a first resort, since he has opened a mediation case involving administrative time and attention from the community. As a courtesy it would be appreciated and would eliminate a cloud over the mediation case. I would prefer not to bring this to CheckUser, since its importance is minor. At the moment, however, I am left only with suspicions that Rossdv is not acting in good faith.

I was not named as a party to the mediation, and I've stayed out of it so far. If the two parties above aren't willing to take a position, however, I will. Anyone else is welcome to join the mediation by going to the case and entering the discussion. --Dhartung | Talk 01:45, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Rossdv has proposed a compromise wording that merely links to the video inline and does not include Ross Viner's name.
 * Nkayesmith has found that a broadcast version of the concert credited Viner, potentially making this instance more notable than others.
 * When the case was opened Rossdv named Theoldanarchist and David Koller as parties. Rviner was added later (by Nkayesmith?).
 * Nkayesmith is now waiting for input from the "other side".
 * As for "calming down" I was never excited. Rather it was some opponents of the trivia that seemed upset. I was just very curious why this trivia was opposed so much. And even when more evidence was requested I provided it (then it still did not suffice) so it appears to be personal.  Maybe I’m wrong but it certainly appears that way.   And since the evidence requested still did not suffice I had to request mediation.  I acted in good faith by submitting true, accurate and interesting trivia with ample evidence.  I feel it is inflammatory posts like yours that are not in good faith.  I understand your sockpuppet suspicions but I explained what happened.  I admit it was silly but I really don't think any explanation will change your suspicion so perhaps you should request that checkuser, especially since you vehemently oppose this trivia.  In addition I suggest you submit your argument in the mediation section explaining why you feel this trivia is not worthy, important, interesting or notable then address why it differs from other content (concord, Danny Paradise, Comic book) or dispute the evidence.  At this point it seems clear it has evolved into a personal “vendetta” of sorts as you as you aren’t addressing the merits of the trivia or evidence.  So again if it helps with the your position request a checkuser and address the issue over in the mediation.  all the best.Rossdv 07:49, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I am not debating you here; that's what the mediation page is for. Since you have, as I said, entered a formal process involving the community, I feel that this is a topic that should be discussed for resolution before I engage with you in mediation. I was not listed as a party, so consider this as unrelated to the outcome. The case I opened is at Suspected sock puppets/Rossdv, where discussion will take place whether a Checkuser is warranted. --Dhartung | Talk 09:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Then why did you say you would take a position in the mediation before filing the checkuser?Rossdv 21:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I did not say that. --Dhartung | Talk 22:33, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You did. Right above you wrote: I was not named as a party to the mediation, and I've stayed out of it so far.  If the two parties above aren't willing to take a position, however, I will. Anyone else is welcome to join the mediation by going to the case and entering the discussion. Rossdv 22:53, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I said if no other editors were to participate then I would. It's only been 24 hours and change, and there is certainly no particular rush. Keep in mind that I am under no obligation to participate in a mediation, particularly when I was not named as a party -- but I have a permanent and ongoing obligation as a Wikipedia editor to enforce policies and guidelines. I have no regrets about being firm when I suspect a violation of soapboxing or a conflict of interest. --Dhartung | Talk 09:00, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry but I have my doubts that this is not a personal matter to you, as according to checkuser policy (which you claim to have an obligation to uphold) it isn't meant for your purpose. Especially since sockpuppets (which you insist we are) are not prohibited, according to here.  You have continually tried to block this at every step, before any sockpuppeting fears and only filed this when mediation leaned against your view.

Will the real Ross Viner please stand up
I think I did this right. Well I am thoroughly flattered. All this over little ol’ me. Rossdv, are you someone I know? Are you family? LOL. Or is that your real name and initial? Where did you see the video? Recently? I am always pleased at the response my duet (to think I did it twice) brings. The pleasure people seem to get from it surprises even me, more than a decade later and I can’t tell you how much I appreciate hearing from people still. I’d love wikipedia to help “spread the joy”. As pointed out about above why it is not as worthy as Danny Paradise, or a comic book character, I do not know but that is up to wikipedia. I’ll try not to let it hurt my feelings. LOL. As much as I would love to see it included here if it brings the editors pleasure to delete it (which I can’t understand why) then no sweat off my back. Regardless “I’m So Happy….” either way and I hope you all enjoy the video as much as others do. Ross Viner (standing up) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rviner (talk • contribs).
 * What is your username? I would like to send you a private message. rossdv —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rossdv (talk • contribs).

This is unbelievable. Its been asked how I knew about this. Someone told me my name was here under Sting. Truthfully I was excited when I heard that. When I saw all the fuss here I thought I would comment. Thank you Rossdv very much for going up to bat for this. As mentioned I do have all the details and if I dig up my scrap book I will get back here or to you. But honestly it is not that important (how do you keep track here?). I would love for it to be here of course. But put your energy into fighting for the rain forest. Sting would want that too. (You might want to use a different name while doing it or I will get credit) LOL. Same for some of the others. I can not imagine why Stings yoga teachers name or the fact Sting flew Concord is somehow more important than this. Do not take it all personally (If I do not then you should not). They have their views. It is unfortunate they do not see the video the same way others do. I think that you used a name very similar (exactly) like mine hurt and they are choosing to use that as an excuse not to put it up. Just enjoy the video send it to your friends and thanks a bunch. Any questions feel free to email me (apparently I am easy to find. LOL). Happiness to all Ross Viner


 * I think you are right and I am sorry again for stupidly using your name. It probably hurt. I'll make one more compromise offer then let the chips fall where they may.  Ross you have no idea how much this lifts people up.  I've seen it as I show people all the time.  I've seen it bring someone out of a down moment.  :Right now it just seems like Dhartung wants the last word and I would like to think I’m above that (although I seem as bad).  I'm fed up (which is likely what is wanted). So he can have it.Rossdv 22:50, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Well this page certainly shows the wikipedia users' bias. Generally the typical wikipedian is a Gen X white male who is technically inclined etc. These people tend to be a bit obsessed with celebrities, and Sting's music fits right into their demographic. I think others would see how "sting" directing right to this page is a little silly. "Slash" does not direct to the guitar guy from Guns n Roses. "The Rock" does not direct to the movie star. Flea does not direct to the musician. Carpenter doesn't direct to Karen Carpenter. I fear in our increasely celebrity obsessed world, they someday may! Anyway, with Sting meaning so many different things, including an insect or animal sting, I find it hard to believe the majority of people have the celebrity in their head when they're checking it out. 69.210.50.238 07:04, 29 November 2006 (UTC)kj

classical?
Can someone tell me why Sting's genre is classical?

Because of the Dowland project.Lute88 04:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * That seems quite odd, given that he made one classical album. By that logic, dozens and dozens of contemporary musicians, such as Vangelis would be classified oddly as such.  (Mind you I'm not saying being a classical musician is better, or anything like that, but that it is rather specific and generally refers to conservatory trained musicians, not contemporary musicians)

Dolphins

He also made this soundtrack: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphins_%28movie%29

... which is not classical. B. Kruse

I didn't say it was. It was supposed to be a separate comment. 134.155.22.245 (talk) 13:40, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Stings main genre is jazz --ATaylor0927 09:29, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I would say his main genre is rock, based on what I have heard by him and that the majority of his audience probably are rock listeners, not jazz listeners. I haven't really heard much from him that sounds like the jazz fusion, bebop albums that I have, or anything like that.

Notable quotes
maybe you do not like what sting said in 1987 but that is a very notable quote and should stay. it is also verifiable with the information given so leave the quote alone because this is an encyclopedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by I Like Sting, Really I Do (talk • contribs) 00:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

An ex-Catholic?
I noticed that Sting is on the List of ex-Roman Catholics, but I can't find anything in the article about it (apologies if it's just my poor eyesight!). Did he officially renounce his Catholicism? Does he belong in Category:Former Roman Catholics? Martin 02:29, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Stings Jazz Roots
First let me say, as a dire Sting fan, I find it ridiculous that I had to waste so much time reading about two people fighting over a frickin yoga instructor etc. I'm hear to read and contribute about Sting, not try to prove that I know more than the next person. Seriously people! Also, to the author of this, I find it interesting that under Stings genres of music, you do not have JAZZ. Jazz is where Sting started, it is his love and it is what he primarly returned to when he went solo. He is VERY CLEAR about this in his autobiography. --ATaylor0927 09:28, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know about his other stuff, but everything I've heard with the Police was Rock/Pop with reggae syncopation. I'm sure he has some jazz stuff, but would it be fair to say that his output is actually purchased primarily by jazz listeners?  I can't agree. I'm not trying to slam him in any way, but I think he markets himself to rock listeners, and stylistically the music I've heard with him in it is rock fused slightly with other styles, regardless of his influences.


 * Furthermore, Sting reinforces what I stated in a 1996 interview:
 * http://stingetc.com/austing.shtml

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Article title
"Sting", to my experience, has most often been used to denote the piercing from a stinger. I propose that this article be moved to Sting (musician) (currently a redirect), and Sting (disambiguation) moved to this title. Do I have opposition or support? -- Gray  Porpoise  23:13, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Note that this has been discussed before, . I have no opinion on it. --Mrwojo (talk) 06:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Old Requested move
Someone moved Sting to Gordon Matthew Thomas Sumner without gathering consensus - and then replaced the Sting redirect with the wrestler article. Probably not the appropriate thing. Should be discussed here. For now I've reverted Sting back to the redirect and I've requested that the move be reversed. (John User:Jwy talk) 05:51, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Needs to be fixed. Now. Badagnani (talk) 05:51, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * See WP:AN. CIreland (talk) 05:52, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * It should be fixed now. Be aware that there are quite a few redirects used in articles and currently pointing at Sting assuming it's the musician. Gimmetrow 06:18, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was move. JPG-GR (talk) 18:36, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Sting → Sting (musician) — As mentioned widely above, "Sting" is a phrase used to refer to a number of topics, including a wrestler who goes only by that name. There are a number of generic uses for the word "sting" and it would make a lot more sense if this page was moved to "Sting (musician)" with the main "Sting" page being a disambiguation page, as many have discussed already on this page. —Bssc81 (talk) 06:36, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Support as nom. It's worth noting that in an earlier discussion above, the majority of respondents actually opposed moving away from the Sting (musician) page in the first place.  Not sure why that was overruled, but either way I'm reproposing it now. Bssc81 (talk) 06:36, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Support as per nominator. Whydontyoucallme dantheman (talk) 12:38, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose. There is an Wikipedia traffic counter at stats.grok.se and it suggests the musician is the most popular topic: "Sting" = 96,000 views last month, "Sting (disambiguation)" = 8216 views last month. That means only one in ten visitors to Sting not want the celeb article. Callmederek (talk) 17:15, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * This data is biased and thus that argument is flawed. Consider that the majority of the links to Sting do indeed refer to the musician (and the reason for this is because the article is already at this location.)  Most people following links do find their intended target.  To use an analogy, it would be like renaming Madonna (entertainer) to Madonna.  If all the links on Wikipedia conformed to this name usage, then the ratio of hits to Madonna vs. Madonna (disambiguation) would also increase significantly as well. Bssc81 (talk) 18:33, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Support Yes he is really popular, but he is not the only possible target. Steve Borden, better known under his wrestling name for the last 20 years of "Sting", is also a very likely search target. The problem with Callmererek's argument is that people typing "Sting" in the seach box will automatically come here regardless of whether they were looking for the musician or not.  TJ   Spyke   03:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose Of the other targets only Sting (wrestler) is any competition to the name, and based on links the musician gets to keep Sting. There are well over 1000 links to Sting, the musician (including chess players???), and only 300 to Sting, the wrestler. Madonna and Madonna (entertainment) is not a good analogy, because the Madonna is better known as Mary, and is what is used for the article name, except of course there are too many other Mary's which is why it is called Mary (mother of Jesus). Madonna (entertainer) should be renamed Madonna. After all, she only sold 200 million albums. In terms of page views, Mary gets an infinitesimal 15,086 page views vs. Madonna's 296,645. So Madonna was not a very good comparison. 199.125.109.126 (talk) 23:45, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You just highlighted why Madonna is a good analogy. The fact that you think Madonna (entertainer) should be renamed Madonna is another issue.  But in both cases you have more page views for the musician than any other use of the name... yet Madonna is still at Madonna (entertainer).  It proves to be an excellent precedent and is highly relevant here considering the parallels.  Now, your argument is that BOTH should not have the disambiguator "(entertainer)" or "(musician)", which is a different issue.  But it is not a bad analogy at all, as you have suggested it is. Bssc81 (talk) 05:08, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * One article is named Madonna, the other is named Mary. How is that a good analogy? 199.125.109.78 (talk) 05:08, 31 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Support. It is not clear that there is a primary use here.  I think this is clear from the above comments.  With that being the case, the dab page should be at the main name space.  This also makes it easier for the dab team to find and fix misdirected links.  Vegaswikian (talk) 07:26, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 9/10 looking for the musician doesn't sound like primary usage? It does to me. You can't go moving articles just because you found an obscure person who shares the same name. 199.125.109.78 (talk) 05:08, 31 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Support. Reader of an encyclopedia can be looking for many things. Iamaleopard (talk) 03:02, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Support. I don't think there is a primary usage. From WP:PRIMARYUSAGE: "when there is a well known primary meaning for a term or phrase...". There is a well known meaning for the phrase "sting", this is what happens if you annoy a bee. The guidelines also say "this may be indicated by a majority of links in existing articles" etc, emphasis mine: the guidelines say "may be", not "is". Sam Staton (talk) 10:41, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Support. I have been stung by wasps and nettles and fire coral enough times to know that "sting" has other uses, not only a musician. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:


 * It is worth noting that the argument that the majority of links to Sting refer to the musician is reason to keep it as is is flawed, because links have been created in line with the article titles as they stand today. They can, and will, be changed over time to reflect this change.  It won't be difficult. Bssc81 (talk) 06:44, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The two ways that we have of telling primary usage is how many links there are to the article and how many times it will be searched for and read. The links occasionally point to the wrong place, but there are 301 links to the wrestler and 1062 that link to the singer, including one from list of chess players (and 32 to bee sting). Chess? Oh yes, Sting (the singer) played Kasparov in 2000. Yup. Kasparov. Apparently they are close friends. 199.125.109.102 (talk) 04:08, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * This article needs to be changed because the only reason the musician has it over Steve Borden is because wikipedia is being biased and thinks the musician is more worthy since wreslting is considered lowbrow culture. Try to tell me I am wrong.  Try to be fair with this.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.244.6.238 (talk) 02:57, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree that this is some sort of "bias" on Wikipedia's behalf. It just happens that more people know Sting the musician.  But look at the the the disambiguation page.  There are literally dozens of uses for the word "sting", including the highly generic "sting" in reference to an insect's bite.  The only reason there are hundreds of links to the musician's page is that people have been building links around the current system for years.  It doesn't mean it's the right thing to do though. Bssc81 (talk) 05:10, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * A bite is not a sting. A bite is with the mouth. A sting is usually at the back end of the stinging creature's body. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 20:36, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Nicknamed "God" maybe, but not yet officially "Sir"
A small point - Eric Clapton is not "Sir Eric", although perhaps he should be... 86.149.63.31 (talk) 15:01, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Fixed. --claygate (talk) 18:04, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Sting / Eberhard Schoener
No hay menciones sobre los trabajos en colaboracion de Sting / Eberhard Schoener (Eberhard Schoener - Flashback (1978) EMI Electrola, Eberhard Schoener - Video Magic (1978) EMI Electrola, Eberhard Schoener - Video Flashback (1988) - Phonogram. Puede alguien aportar mas informacion sobre este?

There are no entries on the works in collaboration with Sting / Eberhard Schoener (Eberhard Schoener - Flashback (1978) EMI Electrola, Eberhard Schoener - Video Magic (1978) EMI Electrola, Eberhard Schoener - Video Flashback (1988) - Phonogram. Can anyone provide more information on this?

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Takenae (talk • contribs) 09:15, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Buddhist?
When/how did he become a buddhist? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.251.86 (talk) 20:26, 15 April 2009 (UTC)