Talk:Stockton, California/Archive 1

Edit State Senator
I changed the State Senator from Michael Machado to Lois Wolk, because she is the current 5th District Senator.Promontoriumispromontorium (talk) 00:35, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Not Responsible for Lost or Stolen Property listed as city motto?
I just moved here, so I can't call BS on this positively, but can that be sourced or is this some sort of local joke, i.e. Oaksterdam, Bezerkly, pot dealer directory=Humboldt yellow pages, etc.?KVND 09:08, 21 October 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by KVND (talk • contribs)

The previous motto listed here was "The Original City of Trees." Can we get some sources on either of these? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.125.43.188 (talk) 21:56, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Pavement
You should've put the indie band Pavement in the Music subsection of Entertainment and Culture section —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.209.255.241 (talk) 00:01, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Stockton has alot of gangs but if you want to stay away from gangs id suggest moving to the west or north east part of the city. gangs are found in the south,east,and some parts of the north sides of the city. ereas from 6th street down to the limits of stocktons south side are controled by norteno gangs. in th east side of stockton

Purdy
-- I have to admit upfront that I have a bias--I live in Stockton and am pro-Stockton. I agree with you that this information should be in the Stockton article. However, I believe that the way this information is presented, particularly with its own title and section, is a bit too much and should be toned down.

-- Bad information about other cities is not presented as "obnoxiously." For example, look at Modesto, CA, and note that certain individuals are listed under famous people, and there is brief mention of interesing items under "interesting facts".StknCPA 20:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

-- Note that the threat that was issued was vague and did not include any information about what school was to be targeted. That is an important piece of information that needs to be retained. Everyone in town refers to it as the Swain School Shooting. Are you hellbent against Stockton or did someone close to you die at Cleaveland E.? ".EthicalHacker

-- Who the hell refers to it as the Swain School Shooting?????? What does that even mean?? DFS (talk) 06:58, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Transportation
With all due respect, 69.225.254.28 -- your edits are not in accordance with reality (not to mention that it is also much more clearly non-NPOV):


 * Stockton does not have the worst transportation system in the world, but calling it "an excellent and unmatched transportation system connecting the city to the rest of the nation" is nothing short of an exaggeration that has no bearing with reality. That description fits better with Chicago, with St. Louis, with Denver, with a lot of other cities with imperfect transportation systems, for sure, better than Stockton.  I know that I have a lot of problems going between Stockton and San José, even, by rail or by bus (and certainly air is not available!).
 * Stockton's highway system is uncongested? Have you seen the 5/4 interchange at commute time?  Have you seen the Highway 99/Hammer interchange at commute time?  It's certainly not got the congestion of the Bay Area, but calling it "uncongested" is wrong.
 * Stockton is clearly minutes away from 205 and 580, but minutes away from 80? What kind of driving can you do to get to 80 within minutes?

I see no justification at all in what you wrote. If you disagree, please provide reasoning on why I am wrong before you consider reverting. --Nlu 00:48, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

I call BS on the following:

George W. Bush Elementary School, located in north Stockton, is the first public school in the nation to be named for a sitting president.

I personally attended Kennedy JHS, which was named after JFK in 1963 (PRIOR to his assassination). I'm sure there are plenty of others as well. Maybe this particular GWB school is the first school named after THIS particular sitting president.

--Agree that the above claim about GWB Elementary School being the first public school named after a sitting president is most likely BS. Herbert Hoover High School (Glendale) in 1929 was one. Another possible one was Calvin Coolidge Elementary School. Whoever claimed that about GWB Elementary School should at least site his sources. --User:felixksw 12:20, 25 February 2007

Unencyclopedic info
I deleted this:


 * ''=A Stocktonian's Public Opinion=
 * "Stockton has improved greatly over the last few years with the great additions of the improvements :to the waterfront, the new cinema, and the beautiful Stockton Arena, but still much is needed to :make this city great."-M.D.

It is just some random person's opinion. The person isn't even named - they're only identified as "M.D." Who is this mysterious M.D., and why is their opinion relevant? What makes M.D. an authoritative source of information? This strikes me as unencyclopedic, subjective and definitely POV. Stlom 02:26, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I have a request.
Will someone please slip in a nice picture of the city's skyline in the article? Or a picture of something awsome in Stockton?

-- how about a demographics section as well, thats one major thing missing.. LoveBus 14:18, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

The Demographics section sucks...
28% white? 48% Latino? where the fuck'd you get those statistics? And how the hell would you know? Put a goddamn reference section, you stupid brainless moron... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.19.141.82 (talk) 05:26, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I believe USC Coack Pete Carroll attended/graduated from Univ of Pacific —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.125.26.74 (talk) 02:29, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Foreclosures
Stockton currently has the second-highest housing foreclosure rate of any US city. That would need a source, of course (CNBC just cited one), but if anyone wants to add something, the housing crunch might be a place to start.- DMCer ™  20:56, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

removing unreferenced and incorrect material
I've again removed the trivia section "Notable stocktonians". This removal was previously reverted with the comment that "All link to referenced articles".

References need to be here; Wikipedia is not it's own reference. Further, there's at least one red link and several articles that aren't referenced. There are people who are listed who, according to their Wikipedia article don't actually live in Stockton, don't show a place of residence in their article, or were not born in Stockton. -- Mikeblas (talk) 16:20, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I reinserted the list after going to the articles of a couple, such as James Budd, who do mention a longerm stay in Stockton. I'm not sure which one of them aren't from stockton, but some are, so could you look through the ones that you found that aren't from Stockton and remove those? Okiefromokla questions? 01:46, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I just went through nearly all of the people, and did not find one of their articles that failed to specify the person either attending UOP, living in, or being born in Stockton. What is it that you saw? Okiefromokla questions? 01:50, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Dave Brubeck is not from Stockton, for example. I've removed the material again, as it remains unreferenced. -- Mikeblas (talk) 02:42, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Normally, I'd agree with you. But this article is obviously incomplete and not adequately referenced by any stretch, so there's no need to remove anything unsourced if it's reasonable (Most are clearly from Stockton, as evident in their articles). Someone is bound to come along, take the references from the respective articles, and put them here. Then it can be integrated into the article or subarticles. Simply removing all of this material does little good; it only prevents it from being used later on. Unless the article improves to the point where this would hamper efforts for GA or FA nomination (which won't be any time soon) there's really no reason to delete it, is there? Okiefromokla questions? 05:04, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Even referenced, it's still trivia in this article. If you look at the American City articles that are GA or FA, you'll find that they don't have trivia in them. -- Mikeblas (talk) 02:56, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If it's not referenced anyone can remove it. Removing it = challenging it. It should not be put back without references, per wp:v and wp:blp, two of WP's most important policies. -- Jeandré, 2008-04-06t13:29z

Population
This source from the California Department of Finance lists the 2007 population estimate at 289,789. However, the population listed in the article differs &mdash; in fact, it's different in the infobox and the Demographics section as well. I also cannot find a reliable population density statistic. Someone with a knack for detective work needs to find those data and correct or amend them in the article. haz (talk) 16:45, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Error
"Stockton is the fourth largest inland city in California, behind Fresno, Sacramento, Bakersfield, and Riverside." There must be an error. --81.189.42.208 (talk) 10:26, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Stockton != Sacto
This is a nice tidbit, but the lyric is almost certainly "...from Sacto, Northern Cal". It's a bit hard to hear, but repeated twice starting around 1:25 in "Unfair". Sorry to say, I think I'll edit it out unless anyone objects. 155.41.163.141 (talk) 18:36, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Indie-rock band Pavement was formed in Stockton in 1989 by Stephen Malkmus and Scott Kannberg. Much of their early material was recorded in Stockton. They refer to themselves in the song Unfair as "the last psychedelic band, from Stockton, Northern Cal".

Huge Pavement fan from Stockton, here. Since Pavement has never printed lyrics to the song Unfair (unless someone can hunt down the sheet music), there is no encyclopedic reference for this, especially considering the purposefully obtuse lyrics in many (most) of their songs. I choose to believe he says "From Stockton, Northern Cal, South Sacto, Northern Cal". Regardless, there are numerous references to Pavement being from Stockton that can be used. DFS (talk) 06:54, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

America's Most Miserable Cities - Two Years running...
Someone want to edit this to reflect that Stockton made the list again? Only #11 this year, though. Way to go Stockton! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.211.126.14 (talk) 22:28, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

List of movies
The long bulleted list of movies interrupts the article flow. Per the embedded list guideline, lists "should usually have their own entries". I suggest a separate article, "List of movies made in Stockton." Not sure if this is kosher, would appreciate other's input.-- btphelps (talk) (contribs) 17:47, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

What river?
The second paragraph has, "Stockton is connected westward with San Francisco Bay by the river’s 78 miles ..." Please indicate what river this is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.62.90.52 (talk) 14:53, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

picture?
I know when I list went to Stockton, which was in 1999, the downtown area had some SERIOUS issues, and the rest of the city, for other reasons, was just not to my liking. But I hear things have gotten way better. So, I wonder why this article does not have a photo of Stockton. 68.107.8.147 (talk) 17:33, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

I moved the movie reference for Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry to Farmington, as that is where the scenes were filmed in, not Stockton. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.169.92.130 (talk) 15:53, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Methamphetimine and Car Theft
-- I removed the claim that Stockton has more Meth addicts in its population than other cities. No sources cited. Also the car theft claim conflicts with several other studies and lists from the FBI and state of California - at least cite the particular source please.

Howdy, y'all. Ample media reports of a couple years ago and earlier have declared that Modesto... a few miles south of Stockton, has been labeled as the car theft capital of the USA. Stockton has had a reputation as being a "tough town" since I wandered into that general area in 1972. So many factors involved in the decline of USA society... decline as I define and observe the event, of course. Enjoy your "new,improved USA" humans. The worst is coming but I will be dead and gladly so!!!Obbop (talk) 14:53, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Crime section
Don't know where to begin...that whole section needs an overhaul. The stat about engineers is out of context, the discussion of the Forbes ranking makes no sense etc etc — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.221.51.139 (talk) 11:51, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

gazooba ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.3.229.63 (talk) 10:32, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Musicians, bands, and producers with origins in Stockton
moved to talk because tagged for 'prose', near trivia, insufficient references RJFJR (talk) 22:13, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The rock band Pavement was formed in Stockton's Morada exurb in 1989 by Stephen Malkmus and Scott Kannberg. Much of their early material was recorded in North Stockton at Gary Young's Louder Than You Think Studios, which later moved to Linden.
 * Singer-songwriter Grant-Lee Phillips, later of the Los Angeles band Grant Lee Buffalo, grew up in Stockton. Phillips moved to Los Angeles in the 1980s with fellow Stocktonian Jeffrey Clark, where the two musicians formed the indie-rock band Shiva Burlesque. Phillips formed Grant Lee Buffalo from the ashes of Shiva Burlesque, then went solo.
 * Singer/actor Chris Isaak was born in Stockton and grew up there, before forming his band Silvertone in San Francisco.
 * Noted Canadian-born jazz composer/arranger/bandleader Gil Evans grew up in Stockton, where he led bands before moving to New York.
 * Hipster poet, performer and Tuolumne County native Lord Buckley grew up in Stockton.
 * Stockton-based producers Hallway Productionz have produced music for well-known artist, including Blackalicious, Ice Cube, Mindless Behavior, Ledisi and WC.
 * R&B singers Bear and Erin Jennae appeared on the Billboard charts in 2006 and 2007, respectively.
 * In 2006 Tim Sovinec, a Stockton youth pastor and guitarist for the Christian rock band everybodyduck, became the first local resident to perform at the Stockton Arena.
 * In 2006 Latin Magic Band became the first local act to perform at both the arena and the 2,000-seat Bob Hope Theatre.
 * Local rapper Okwerdz received an Australian Gold record in 2008 for his work with the Hilltop Hoods.
 * Deftones bassist Chi Cheng was from Stockton.
 * International performing and professional recording artist Savage Sun was born and lived in Stockton.

Candidate for deletion.
This article seems like it isn't really necessary to have. Nothing notable ever happened in Stockton. The only thing that seems relevant is that it is the most miserable city. Brogre4Life (talk) 14:20, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

I assume you're joking? It's one of the 64 largest cities in the US. Just going off List of United States cities by population all of the 289 largest cities have articles. How many of those do you think should be deleted? 24.61.22.2 (talk) 01:42, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Structure
Hi. I'm going through all the US Cities (as per List of United States cities by population) in an effort to provide some uniformity in structure. Anyone have an issue with me restructuring this article as per WikiProject Cities/US Guideline. I won't be changing any content, merely the order. Occasionally, I will also move a picture just to clean up spacing issues. I've already gone through the top 20 or so on the above list, if you'd like to see how they turned out. Thoughts? Onel5969 (talk) 19:48, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Colonel Ernest Swinton's Meeting with Benjamin Holt, 1918
This is the paragraph as it appears at present:

"British Major Ernest Swinton saw the potential of a track-laying tractor. He proposed that the Army should adapt the Holt tractor to build a power-driven, bullet-proof, tracked vehicle that could destroy enemy guns. While the Admiralty chose to use a British firm, Foster and Sons, whose managing director and designer was Sir William Tritton,[15] the Holt tractor was credited by Swinton with helping to win the war.[citation needed] He traveled to Stockton and, in a public ceremony on April 22, 1918, relayed Britain's gratitude to the inventor.[16] The Holt tractor became one of the most important military vehicles of all time.[17] After the war, Holt built the gasoline-electric tank, an American tank."

There are several problems with this paragraph that make it somewhat misleading. I shall explain the background so that it can be improved to reflect the actual events:

At the time of the visit, Swinton was a Brevet (Acting) Colonel, not, as previously stated, a General. A minor point. Although it is true that from late 1914 Swinton advocated the construction of armoured, fighting vehicles based in some way on a Holt caterpillar tractor, he was unsuccessful in persuading the British Army or Government to pursue the idea. Unbeknownst to him, British tank development was initiated and overseen by a quite separate department, without any reference to Holt's machines. Swinton only made contact with that department when development was well under way and prototypes already in existence. He was then put in charge of what became the Tank Supply Committee, but his plan for converted Holts was never acted upon. After news of the tanks' appearance on the battlefield reached the USA, in late 1916, there were many claims (including some from Holt) that they were built on or converted from Holt machines. That was not the case. Holt tractors had no direct influence on British tank design; paradoxically, they had much more influence on the German and early French tanks of WWI, which were built on modified Holt tracks.

However, Holt tractors did play a major role in the War, hauling heavy guns and towing supply wagons.

Swinton made reference to this role in his speech to Holt's workforce, but it was more complicated than that. He did not thank them for helping to win the war, because at the time (April 1918) it seemed quite possible that the War would be lost; the Allies were n headlong retreat on the Western Front. He instead thanked them for their hard work and valuable contribution to the war effort, and described the great importnce of Holt tractors in hauling artillery. He then implied strongly that there was a direct connection between the Holt and the British tanks. This might have been done in order to flatter his host and the workers; it might also have been because Swinton wanted to give the impression that he had had more to do with the invention of the tank than was actually the case.

The contemporary report of Swinton' speech, in Holt's company newspaper can be read here: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=67323

A number of American newspaper reports contributed to this misapprehension, and some Holt promotional literature claimed that the tanks were armoured bodies on Holt tractors.

So, the question is: if this episode is worth including in the article, how should it be edited to reflect the event in its proper context?

I don't think all the stuff about the British Admiralty and so on is necessary in a reference of this depth, so I would suggest removing it. The claim that "The Holt tractor became one of the most important military vehicles of all time" seems rather over-the-top, and the link to the citation is dead. Holt did build the gas-electric tank prototype - in 1917, not after the War - but does that belong in this article? And how do we handle the rather exaggerated claims made by a number of parties?

Hengistmate (talk) 05:36, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

More Swinton Visit.
Paragraph now in place. Of course, anyone who is sufficiently bloody-minded can tamper with it, but at present it represents fairly the events at the meeting and the circumstances behind them. It's hard to give a page number when an entire chapter or even a whole book is devoted to a subject, but let's hope we can balance Wikipedia's rules with historical fact. If we are lucky, any challenges will be in good faith. Hengistmate (talk) 13:06, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Stockton Police Department
Insufficient unique information not already covered in city article to justify a stand-alone article — btphelps (talk to me) (what I've done) 07:35, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The SPD article has potential. The history section is interesting and could be expanded, as could how they handled the rise in violent crime while cutting back due to budget woes in the late 2000s/early 2010s. Also of interest would be the closure of the North Stockton community policing sub-station on Tam O'Shanter (also due to lack of funding) and its effect on crime/safety in the area. Recent controversies such as the tragic outcome of the bank robbery chase/hostage situation, claims of excessive force, and an attempt at organized protests (although with far fewer participants than the "hundreds" previously claimed in the article) all could fill out the article. That said, as currently written, there is little unique content and it should be merged and redirected unless/until a more comprehensive article is written.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 08:12, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Hispanics
The article states:

"Hispanics and Latinos make up the largest percentage of any race in this city population"

Hispanic and Latino are not races at all. They are ethnicities. Should be fixed. 2001:558:6012:5A:565:ABEA:FCDE:5BBD (talk) 00:45, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I removed that section, since no one else did. Someone brought it back and removed "race". But there is no source cited that there are more Hispanics than any other ethnicity.2001:558:6012:5A:565:ABEA:FCDE:5BBD (talk) 23:17, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

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