Talk:Stonehenge/Archive 4

Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2021
Remove the Sketch allegedly "...showing the tongue and groove and mortise and tenon joints used in the outer Sarsen circle" which is incorrect. Replace the sentence "The lintels were fitted to one another using another woodworking method, the tongue and groove joint." by the correct sentence "The lintel ends butt to one another." This is evident in aerial views. 84.214.215.102 (talk) 19:51, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The claim that the lintels at Stonehenge were linked end-to-end by tongue and groove joints is seductive because it implies an astonishing, even incredible, precision of stone working. The idea also implies deliberate chirality of construction with implications for the direction of any circular ceremonial procession. The state protectors of Stonehenge, English Heritage, have sent the statement shown. There is not sufficient evidence for Dr. Greaney's claim that "some stones have one tongue and one grooves, others two of each" for me or WP:RS. Philvoids (talk) 19:08, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

DNA
The section about the DNA is growing bigger and bigger. To be honest, I have difficulty to see the relevance of DNA in relation to the stone monument. Just plain remove it might be a bit harsh, so I suggest a split off of the DNA-part into a new article. The Banner talk 17:54, 27 August 2022 (UTC)


 * @The Banner I haven’t looked in detail but there may be some OR/synthesis. And of course “Notably” is a “ word to avoid”. I’m not convinced about an article or that this could be cut to a paragraph.  Doug Weller  talk 18:07, 27 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Funnily enough, that section contains nothing about the aDNA of individuals actually associated with Stonehenge, and lots of stuff about ancient people only generally associated with the same time period. 🤔  Tewdar   19:06, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Rather than a new article, I think we should just retain and prune the parts relating to 'original builders==EEFs' and 'late stage associated with migrating Beaker folk', which is well documented, along with whatever other relevant aDNA results we can include relating to the Stonehenge site (and wider ceremonial landscape). Sound good?  Tewdar   19:44, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Agreed on all points noted above. The article is now 25% larger than the recommended article size and needs to be trimmed/split not expanded. DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 21:04, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Photos from 1931, hi-res downloads available.
Clean black and white photos of what seems to be S., probably taken by hungarian tourists: https://fortepan.hu/en/photos/?id=257403, https://fortepan.hu/en/photos/?id=257404 , https://fortepan.hu/en/photos/?id=257405 (Note: Fortepan is a webportal indexing vintage photography donated by hungarian sources.) 19:03, 10 December 2022 (UTC) 94.21.229.41 (talk) 19:03, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Short description
I'm not going to spend any time defending a policy that I consider indefensible, but just for the record: Neolithic henge monument in Wiltshire, England is 46 characters so is not "short enough per guidelines". The "guideline" at WP:HOWTOSD says 40 characters max.

More significantly, the only reason to put the county in the SD is to disambiguate from the other Stonehenge in England. Only there isn't one. So I don't see the point? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 23:45, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 01:23, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Short description again
updated the short description from Neolithic henge monument in Wiltshire, England to Neolithic henge monument in England then I changed it to Neolithic stone monument in England with a quote of WP:SDJARGON reading "avoid jargon, and use simple, readily comprehensible terms that do not require pre-existing detailed knowledge of the subject" which reverted saying "it is not just a stone monument". Clearly "henge" is jargon which will be meaningless to someone unfamiliar with the topic and cannot be placed in the short description. I have changed it to simply Neolithic monument in England. —DIYeditor (talk) 02:07, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Strictly speaking Stonehenge is not just a Neolithic monument, it is also a Bronze Age monument. :) DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 02:22, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Ancient monument in England? —DIYeditor (talk) 04:10, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That would seem to be sufficiently accurate without any confusion/dispute. DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 06:03, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree. Go ahead. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:33, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree Murgatroyd49 (talk) 15:58, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Don't agree - "ancient" is vague, rather implies the Romans, & has confusing links to the legal term "ancient monument", which could mean far later. "Prehistoric" is better, and "stone" should be added. Johnbod (talk) 16:35, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the simplest short description would be: Stonehenge. That is unambiguous and universally recognised. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 17:08, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That wouldn't last 5 minutes, as you are not supposed to repeat words in the actual title. Johnbod (talk) 17:14, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I know, the point is it doesn't actually matter what is in the short description, the title says it all. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 17:45, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


 * "Prehistoric" makes sense. "Ancient" is probably only especially meaningful to UK readers (xref Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas Act 1979).
 * "Stone" is just part of the story: the earthworks are just as important although less obvious. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 17:30, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Let's face it, it's the iconic and still-visible part of the story. This is just a short-desc. Johnbod (talk) 05:08, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think ancient implies the Romans, simply before the fall of the Roman Empire. Of course there are ancient historical civilizations from before that time, but I think the word applies just as well to prehistoric. We could use the word prehistoric, but if Stonehenge is a monument under the Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas Act 1979 why not use ancient? If we look at Ancient monument the example picture is Stonehenge...
 * As far as "stone" or any characterization like that I'm comfortable just omitting it. Ancient monument in England or Prehistoric monument in England work just as well, although I do tend to prefer ancient. —DIYeditor (talk) 19:11, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request 14 July 2023
Stonehenge tunnel is approved by government (again) See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-66201424 92.9.41.204 (talk) 20:19, 14 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Done Murgatroyd49 (talk) 20:50, 14 July 2023 (UTC)