Talk:Storm (Marvel Comics)/Archive 2

Storm/Black Panther marriage
WAY too POV. I understand that a lot of the fans were surprised and even upset, but saying things like "remarkably" and "went as far..." show serious bias. Furthermore, the marriage was not based on a "single story" - any Black Panther fan can tell you that. Four words: Kiss in the Garden.

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LoomisSimmons 03:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC) 02:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I did not know that, good call. —Onomatopoeia 07:58, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Marvel.com is a wiki
I'm not too sure Marvel.com could be considered a primary source because it is a wiki-style, user-update encyclopedia. Although parts of the website are officially sanctioned by Marvel Publishing Group, I think it's best to only use interviews, press releases, and comic/media cannon as primary sources of information.

Story in the Article
I'm hoping people could help me out with making Storm's article flow more like a story, which I think is the case with other X-Men. Currently, the article is just a string of quotes and appearances. Storm is more than just the comics she has appeared in. While the timeline (i.e., the 1980s, the 1990s, etc.) is good, I feel like we're skipping over things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RossF18 (talk • contribs) 15:43, December 26, 2006


 * Please see Talk:Storm (comics)/Archive 1 for the reason of the removal before. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 20:01, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The reason doesn't really give an adequate reason. It just sites a bunch of things. There wasn't any discussion. He just up and erased it as far as I could tell. This should warrant further discussion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RossF18 (talk • contribs) 05:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC).


 * He said that the section violated the manual of style's guideline to writing about fiction, seen at WP:WAF. He also said that the section violated a consensus reached by WikiProject Comics.  The editor is still around; I'm sure he can explain his reasoning in greater detail.  If you compare these sections, you can see there's already redundancy between the two.  Wait for him to respond here or ask him on his user talk page to explain his reasoning.  Also, please leave a signature by typing four tildes (~) at the end of your comment.  This will leave your IP and time/date. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 06:19, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I am "that" editor. In the version you just cited, the content was written from a highly undesirable in-universe style and violated WP:COMIC and WP:WAF guidelines about writing about comic book characters. A discussion was not necessary; ask the guys on WikiProject Comics (WP:COMIC; ask the bigwigs like ChrisGriswold, Postdlf or CovenantD) and they will be glad to fill you why NOT writing it like a story is consensus. In a nutshell, "Real-life info" > "Flow" . If you feel the "flow" is choppy, feel free to improve. BTW, this article is not a good article (see that green plus on top of the page, and WP:GOOD) for nothing. -- Onomatopoeia (currently semi-retired from Wikipedia) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.137.5.122 (talk) 14:16, 27 December 2006 (UTC).


 * BTW, the other X-Man articles are, sorry to say, pretty poor. They are good marvelwiki articles, but as Wikipedia articles (emphasis on publication history, real-life data, cultural impact) the articles violate WP:WAF and the WP:COMIC. "Fictional biographies" (standing alone) are evidence of lazy writing. Wikipedia is not a place for cruft. -- Onomatopoeia

Please edit without the fictional bias. Storm is a character in a comic book and not a "real life" person. Although I think it's important to include the character's fictional biography, if you would like to see this article featured, then it most adopt a neutral point of view. Storm fans most adhere to the wikicomics format. Please cite all refrences, use canonical information accurately, refrain from bias interpretation, NO ORIGINAL RESEARCH, and seek out relevenat related topics. Thank you. 63.249.119.38 20:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Interview Material
1979 from Rampage Magazine(UK)

The interviewer (someone called Richard Burton, I'll abbreviate it to RB) is asking Chris various questions, working through the characters...

"RB: Storm next...

Chris Claremont: Storm is basically what she is...a goddess, a three-dimensional goddess, if such a thing is possible.

RB: When the new X-Men first appeared Storm was probably the most powerful and dramatic member. Do you feel now that she's been slightly upstaged by Phoenix?

Chris Claremont: No. In equal terms of raw power, they're approximately equal.

Jean can maintain a higher burst...she can peak higher than Storm but she can't hold it for long. The thing with Storm is that all we've done till now is show her throwing lightning bolts and creating hurricanes, but she can do far more. Phoenix is more visual - the 'bird effect' is more spectacular. So the gist of it is that they complement each other. They do different things in different ways." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.249.119.38 (talk) 01:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC).

Recent vandalism
It would seem some find this African American character too threatining to their existence. I suggest we watch for further vandalism in the future. Good Catch! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.249.119.38 (talk) 04:55, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

Peer review inserted
I just went on a limb and inserted all the valuable amendments from the peer review, see above. In order to raise this article at least to A-class, I also corrected some refs (WP:FOOT), hacked out superfluous dates (e.g. standalone years, like 1980, or August 1980 are bad, as long there is no mention of Storm in these articles; as a rule of thumb, only insert years if they are relevant to the topic, such as 1980 in comics) and did some major copyedit. I also inserted a fictional character biography like in Batman, a Featured Article. —Onomatopoeia 09:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Went for FAC now. —Onomatopoeia 08:43, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

About the failed FA
As I write these lines, Storm has failed the FA process. Main reason was — a legit argument IMHO — the lack of deep critical analysis. Here a concise analysis out of the FA review:


 * ''Insufficient out-of-universe analysis. There are a few places where the article explains the reasons why things were done, which is good, but doesn't go far enough. For example, early on the article mentions that Storm was one of a new, international team brought in to replace the all-white, all-American original X-Men. That's a dramatic move -- whose idea was this, and why did they do it? Claremont and Lobdell must have given interviews at some point; what did they say about Storm? Also, the article needs more information about responses to the character. Was she popular at her introduction? How did fans respond to major changes like her "punk look" or the wedding? Is there any evidence to show whether or not Storm appeals to a nontraditional audience for superhero comics (African American girls, or girls in general)? What have reviewers said about her? Have her character or her character arcs influenced other comics? The article doesn't necessarily have to have every one of these things, but it does need substantially more analysis to go with the plot descriptions.
 * ''Historical significance. It's odd to summarize a single pop-culture critic's view of Storm as a stereotype and then add, "However, in 2006, Marvel Comics editor-in-chief Joe Quesada called Storm 'one of the greatest female characters ever and certainly the greatest African character ever conceived'." A bit like saying "The District Attorney charged him with 37 counts of bestiality and mail fraud, but his mother thinks he's great." The section should examine a variety of views from people who aren't Marvel Comics executives.
 * ''Level of detail. In general the "Publication history" section does a good job of boiling all the convoluted plots down to a reasonable length, but the 80s subsection has some unneeded detail. I don't think we need quite so much information about why Rogue is wanted by the government in Uncanny #185, or why exactly Storm has to fight Callisto.
 * ''Character and plot insight. The "Publication history" section needs to explain the character development more fully. For example, the knife fight with Callisto is explained simply as "further establish[ing] Storm's character strength". But that misses the point; the surprise in that scene is that Storm is now willing to kill. (We know that because other characters comment on it -- Claremont never hesitates to tell you what to think.) Again, "Storm's outlook on life darkens after her struggles with the Brood" is a bland description that doesn't really explain what is going on and why. We're told that she was influenced by Yukio, but not what kind of influence it was. And so on.
 * ''Film. Another example of missing analysis: I know Halle Berry was a controversial choice to play Storm, and that she was reported (inaccurately?) as complaining about the idea of playing a comic book character. Please tell me about that. Also, what did reviewers think? The films brought the character to a much wider audience, so I think a longer treatment is justified.

All in all, a fair analysis, if someone has a deep X-Men or even a dedicated Storm book which provides a deep making-of and behind-the-scenes info, feel free to add the info and try again. —Onomatopoeia 15:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Err, where's the archive?
I was perusing the log of recently added GA articles, and while this doesn't appear to of been recently added, (The article name change triggered the bot) I can't see a GA review here, and while the talk page history looks like it was nominated once or twice, the archive link seems to be broken, and I didn't see any edit summaries saying that the article was really passed. Anyone know what happened? Homestarmy 21:14, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The article got moved from Storm (comics) to Storm (Marvel Comics) as there is another Storm in comics, and the archive wasn't moved along with the page. I've moved it now. -Malkinann 21:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism of Storm's photo
Zaitu2 (who appears to be a kid with the language on his user page) vandalised the article by changing Storm's. Reverted to earlier file. Just noting it here for anyone monitoring this page and wishing to be made aware of such an act. Zuracech lordum 06:19, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Can't somebody find a better picture anyway? That X-Treme costume is so outdated (not to mention ugly) and I think a more recent picture would be better.

No Dumping
Please do not dump (cut and paste) information from other wiki style websites onto this page. This seriously interferes with the well written portions of this article and detracts from the overall readability of the article. 67.112.124.78 04:29, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Energy patterns
"More recently, Storm has shown the ability to alter her visual perceptions so as to see the universe as multi-colored energy patterns, detecting the ebb and flow of energy behind weather, machines, and human nervous systems."

It's not actually recent, this ability was shown as far back as the mid-80's arc where the White Queen swapped bodies with Storm. In learning to use her powers, the WQ realized she could perceive patterns of energy in the air around her. If I had the issue # to cite, I'd add it. Noclevername 00:13, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * X-Treme X-Men #11-17 (debuted in May 2002) Storm is captured and detained by Khan the conquerer and the extent of her peceptions is revealed. Also, in Uncanny X-Men #151-152 (debuted in November 1981), Storm has the infamous body swap with the White Queen.  The White Queen then understands that Storm can percieve the Natural Universe in terms of Energy rather than just visible matter. 74.220.74.236 18:14, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Proposed merge

 * Oppose merge. Did the anonymous person who proposed the merge read the Bloodstorm article? There's more than one Bloodstorm, and they're not both Storm. Doczilla 07:23, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge All entries pertaining to Ororo Munroe should be on the main entry similar to what is done for Ultimate characters.  Bloodstorm can stay a seperate page for the Dracula (clone) but the Mutant X entry should be moved here with only a link remaining directed to the alternat versions section of this article. I'll move the merger tag down to avoid any further confusion. 69.182.78.104 19:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge Agree with previous. a kendall 19:33, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose - I'm with Doc. The article will become pointless without Bloodstorm (Ororo's version) being in it. RIANZ 20:22, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Bloodstorm has enough history to be worth and article of her own. -Skyrocket
 * Merge Bloodstorm may be a different code name than Storm but she is still Orroro Munroe (of an alternate universe).  The other Bloodstrom (Dracula Clone) has nothing to do with Orroro's Character.  I agree, if the articles do merge, it should be formatted to look something like the Ultimates Section. SluggerBugger 01:13, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, the fact that the other Bloodstorm has nothing to do with Ororo is why a straight merge will not work. Doczilla 08:02, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose - for all the reasons already listed.
 * Oppose - for above reasons and spite. 66.109.248.114 19:36, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge - There's too much confusion as it is. 74.220.74.236 04:26, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * After 2 months of no additional discussion points, I propose discussion now close with no concensus reached.

Please see discussion regarding(Merging Alternate Versions of Characters)

Fair use rationale for Image:Uncanny X-men 487.jpg
Image:Uncanny X-men 487.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 11:52, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Worrying
From the article:

"Initially, in Marvel Team-Up #100 (1980), Storm is seen at age twelve rescuing Black Panther from a white racist called Andreas de Ruyter, but in Dickey's miniseries, a young T'Challa saves a 12 year old Storm from de Ruyter and his brother. A Black Panther #24 (2006) flashback is ambiguous when it comes to the physical aspect of their first meeting, while the miniseries has Ororo lose her virginity to T'Challa a few days after they meet."

This makes it sound like Black Panther takes the virginity of a twelve year old, notable considering the two are meant to be role models. This aspect of the article should be further clarified if possible. What is the miniseries mentioned? 203.59.46.238 04:40, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


 * "What is the miniseries mentioned?" --- The Storm minisires by Dickey. While I see your point, I think Black Panther and Storm are the same age (or within one or two years) if that makes any difference. (RossF18 17:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC))


 * Are you making the assumption that a young woman has to be a virgin in order to be a role model? That's absurd. Nevertheless, T'Challa isn't depicted as being much older than Storm - somewhere around 14-16.LoomisSimmons 05:03, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, according to this [|interview with Dickey], they were teenagers in his miniseries, so I'm changing it. A gx7 06:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dickey must have forgotten his own writing, then, because in Storm #1, she clearly says: Twelve years old. I am a thief. A pickpocket since I was six years old. In Storm #4, it says I have survived the last six years [snip] without my family. Storm #2 reads: Six years old. Buried alive. For whatever reason, Dickey was ambiguous on T'Challa's age, but Storm is clearly and undeniably 12. Changing it back. LoomisSimmons 04:49, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

"Are you making the assumption that a young woman has to be a virgin in order to be a role model? That's absurd." Yeah, I think little girls shouldn't have sex. I'm an extremist crackpot. Besides, those quotes don't prove that she didn't age in the series. She could have been a pickpocket before she became separated from her family. A gx7 10:31, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Helllllllllo? The series takes place in a matter of three to four days. The morning after Ororo and T'Challa have sex, she mentions her age. Okay? You obviously have not read the miniseries. I OWN IT. I can scan the pages and "prove" whatever you need proof of. Storm was 12 when she lost her virginity. Period. Whatever issues you have with that, take them up with your psychiatrist. LoomisSimmons 04:45, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * So you were right. Yay for prepubescent superhero sex. Maybe I will be needing a psychiatrist now. A gx7 05:41, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Loud and wrong, as usual. Prepubescence is the time BEFORE puberty, not DURING puberty. By age 12, a girl is not prepubescent, as puberty in girls begins around age 10. Most 12-year-old females are able to conceive children due to menstruation. See? I just gave you something to discuss with your shrink. Oh, and last I recall, neither Storm nor BP were superheros in their teen years.


 * Don't get me wrong, I'm far from thrilled that this was written. In fact, I hate the whole mini and as far as I'm concerned, the story never took place. I see no reason whatsoever that it needed to be established that Storm lost her virginity when she was only 12. But to say that a woman cannot be a role model just because she had sex at an early age is terribly misogynistic. Females don't all run around with quarters between our knees until marriage. Get used to it. LoomisSimmons 23:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I'm aware of those technicalities. I don't know why you seem angry at me. What makes you think I don't apply the same principle to males? A gx7 10:14, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Because you said nothing of T'Challa not being a role model because he was having sex, only Ororo. LoomisSimmons 21:20, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * From my first comment: "This makes it sound like Black Panther takes the virginity of a twelve year old, notable considering the two are meant to be role models." I apply the same standards to both. A gx7 14:09, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Appropiate source
I was wondering if I could use information from The Classic Marvel Figurine Collection magazines to flesh out Storm's initial conception. They contain more detailed interviews with her creators, but I was wondering if they were an acceptable source, since I haven't seen them referenced elsewhere. Paul730 03:13, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it's fine so long as the source is verifiable. In other words, it can be confirmed through other sources of information either directly or indirectly.  Hope that helps! 74.220.74.44 05:28, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Storm2.jpg
Image:Storm2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 01:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Page length
Hovering around 53-54 KB this page has really reached it maximum length. My suggestion is to create an Alternate versions of Storm page similar to Alternate versions of Captain America and Alternate versions of Iron Man which were recently created due to page length. This would create room to expand the Storm article(such as the 1990's section) as well as create room to add more detail to the Alternate versions section. Storms entry at Bloodstorm (comics) could also be moved to the new page.


 * The page has now been created to shorten the main article. -Freak104 21:58, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Is Storm still in the X-Men?
All these storylines are so confusing and the article is unclear...is Storm still on the team? PatrickJ83 04:04, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


 * In a word, no. Right now, she is a temporary member of the Fantastic Four and back with the X-Men for a limited run. But if you're asking if Storm is a member of the X-Men, the answer is no; she left the X-Men last year to marry T'Challa. LoomisSimmons 23:30, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you! PatrickJ83 05:37, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Curtailing
I reviewed the article and saw the problems that make it too long. It's riddled with fannish comments. The powers section is twice too long. The article includes references both in the text and as references. The Games section is too detailed in places. The publication history has been mixed up with the character biography and this is going to require the most work. Too many pictures, some serve no purpose. There is no need to create an alternate versions page and Bloodstorm should find its way here. --Leocomix 08:21, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, for example I just removed a comment that "Storm has shown herself able to transcend into an elemental being when properly provoked" from the powers section. There is no proof for this in the comics with the exception of a non-canonical alternate future storyline. ~ KiplingKat 75.110.7.153 09:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

That is not entirley true. Ororo was once trapped in a statue by Dr. Doom, and when she broke out, she had lightning for hair, and was breathing fire and ice. The issue goes on to say that she is one with the entire planet, and that the infinite power within her, now unleashed, had Evolved her beyond all comprehension. If the "transcend into an elemental being" part is what gets you, then I do, to a certain level, agree. However, while it "CAN" be said that she was not a "Wholly" elemental being(and nothing like what her alternate futre self became), it "CANNOT" be said(due to the fact that the comic says so) that she wasn't indeed started to evolve from her physical form. I too would like to save the "Wholly elemental being" title for when she actually does it. But until that is stated in the 616 universe, I feel that it should be included in the powers and abilities section not only for the fact that it is a major(still kind of unexplored) part of her powers, but also for the fact that she has shown that it is indeed possible for her to become a "WHOLLY" elemental being. On the issue of the article being to friggin long, yes, I totally agree. It's one of the longest articles I've seen on Wiki. I think a good summary of her life story, special events, powers, and description in media, would do a lot of good. 69.19.14.35 22:57, 21rolemac August 31, 2007

Storm does not turn into an elemental being but can wield her powers in such ways to where she actually links herself psionically to the Earth and the natural elemental forces to gain near absolute control. Maybe she is a Omega-level mutant. But whoever edited her powers section needs to be shot in the foot. It's way too long and is very incoherent. I'm editing it. Elemental5293 (talk) 03:29, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

WHITE WASHED?
There is a part in the historical significance section of Storm's article which states that she has more recently been depicted with blue eyes and white hair, and that she has been depicted as a white woman not only in the comic universe, but in the X-Men film universe as well. First of all, Storm has ALWAYS been depicted as a BLACK woman with white hair and blue eyes. This was written from the very first moment she appeared. Second of all, Storm has always had a very heavy AFRICAN heritage. She was in Kenya for a good portion of her life, she has an AFRICAN accent, and she was worshipped as a Goddess for years. Third of all, this has no reason being in her HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE area, let alone the article. It infuriates me that with all of the different artists who have drawn her over the last several decades, that someone believes that a picture or two disgraces her ENTIRE history. How many times has the white hair and blue eyes been explained? How many times has she been drawn with these features? And how many times has Storm expressed her love for the country of Africa? Of all of the BEAUTIFUL, blue-eyed, white-haired, ebony-colored skin featured pictures of Storm, and of all of the artists who have handled her so wonderfully, someone took a few pictures they didn't like and tried to question her entire African heritage? Do me a favor, and leave all of the anti-black comments out of this Obvious Black Superheroine's history. 66.82.9.85 00:23, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I have a number of disagreements with what you've said.


 * 1. I didn't say she was depicted as a "white woman", but "more Caucasian". The Michael Turner image for example shows her as having a noticably lighter complexion than someone who was supposedly born of an all black family. Also, she was portrayed in the films by Halle Berry, whose mother was white.
 * 2. She has not always had blue eyes.
 * 3. I didn't mention her hair, but now that you mention it, it is suspiciously straight for an African woman.
 * 4. My point relates to her Historical Significance as a black woman in that making her whiter negates it.


 * I don't know how her blue eyes have been explained, but the fact that her mutant status leaves her without darker eyes, a wider nose, thicker lips and wavier hair seems somewhat convenient. --A gx7 05:16, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Storm has always had blue eyes, when they are not completely blank while she uses her power. Always.  Originally, but less common over the years, her eyes are slitted like a cat's or snake's, too.  This does not make her caucasian any more than it makes her a snake.  She's a mutant who looks unusual.  -- AvatarMN 20:05, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Storm is, after all, a mutant. Her blue eyes and white hair has already been explained, and I'd think that her hair being straight is also a mutation. As for her not having a wider nose and thick lips, her mother was of East African ancestry. East Africans (Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Rwanda, Ethiopia, Somalia, etc.) have thinner noses and thinner lips than West Africans (Congo, Benin, Togo, Nigeria, Angola, etc.). In the comics, mutation can cause all kinds of characteristics that are unrealistic (i.e., Nightcrawler, Mystique, Mr. Sinister, Marrow, Elixir, etc.). -- WiccaIrish 03:41, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

When Professor Xavier first found Storm, she was being worshipped in Africa as a Weather Goddess. In this appearance(her first appearance) she had white hair, blue eyes, and dark skin. You see, Storm comes from a very long line of white-haired, blue-eyed Witches whose mystical powers derived from the Goddess Ma'at(the Goddess of truth, law, and order). Storm possess these traits due to her sorceress heritage, not by mutation(her ancestor, Ashake, though not a mutant, possessed these traits and magic). There have been numerous artists who have drawn Storm, thus, giving her a lot of different looks(as no artist or BLACK woman, draws or looks the same). On the fantastic four art cover, yes, there is a slightly lighter skinned, brown-eyed, white-haired Storm. It appears that Michael Turner is one of the artists ,in the marvel comic world, who has made the occasional "MISTAKE" of drawing Storm with brown eyes(I'm not counting the glowing-eyed covers), instead of blue ones. To address your Halle Berry comment, I have to say I strongly agree with you. I dislike Halle Berry's acting in general(her hair was terrible until X3, her dreadful African accent disappeared in X2 and X3 without explanation, and she did not have dark skin or "BLUE" eyes) and I honestly wish someone with "GOOD" voice talent had portrayed the weather witch wrather than Halle Berry. However, to say that "STORM" in general has been White Washed is a little extreme if you ask me, considering Reginald Hudlin's "Black Panther" series has some of the most stunningly beautiful pictures of Storm I have ever seen(she looks like a mix of Iman and Angela Bassett, whom I wish would have portrayed her in the films). I am glad I'm not the only person on this planet who feels angrily about "Halle Storm" and the lighter skinned versions of her, but to say that she has been white washed is like saying her TRUE origins are questionable thanks to a terrible actress, and questionable artists. It is not your vision of a beautiful dark skinned Storm that I have an issue with, it is the title "White Washed" that bothers me. 66.82.9.62 18:41, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that Strom is not "whitewash." In fact I loath that term altogether. I don't believe there is any way to act "white," "black," "latino," or any other race. People's choice of style/dress and their personalities/attitudes are a product of a wide variety of factors ex: country of origin, country of residence, spiritual belief, political belief, social standards/expectations. African-American features also come in a wide range of structures. I believe Storm is a target for controversy because there is a LACK of African characters in general and even fewer who have wider nose and thick lips and coarse hair. However, Storm's features have been consistant since the character's inception, and changing them to suit a lack of representation would be equally as insulting as the trend of replacing Iconic characters with minorities. Comic book companies should have enough courage to create compelling new characters rather than attempting to remarket old ones. I also have a BIG issue with describing Storm as a "tough, highly attractive enforcer," with negative connotations. She's a Warrior, Field Operative and Team Leader with GODDESS-like capabilities. There would be NO POINT to the character at all if she were portrayed as a timid, simplistic woman and it would draw even more racist accusations by the african-american community and feminists alike. Despite any of our personal view points, this is a controversial topic and both sides of the argument should be presented equally in the article so that people can come to their own conclusions when reading it. As the section stands now, I believe it is one-sided and could use elaboration. Bookkeeperoftheoccult 07:31, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with the Iman and Angela Bassett part. I wish Bassett had portrayed Storm. -- WiccaIrish 02:43, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I thought Storm was mixed race - her mother was black, but her father was white. PatrickJ83 05:39, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure (like 97.8%) that Storm's parents were both black, from flashbacks and from when she almost died in X-Treme X-Men. Also I think that her hair colour is a mutation, similar to Polaris' and Psylocke's hair color.  Both Lorna and Betsy had been known to dye their hair (Lorna dyed hers brunette while Betsy dyed hers blonde) but their hair is naturally green and purple respectively. What I'm getting at is that all three characters hair colour is naturally what is seen and not a dye job and is due a mutation.  Also I think Storm's hair is wavy but c'mon I'm sure the Marvel Universe has heard of hair straighteners!StarSpangledKiwi 22:51, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Storm's white hair and blue eyes are a result of her mystic heritage. Her ancestor, Ashake, possessed these same features and she was a powerful witch. Ororo is descended from an ancient line of white-haired blue-eyed witches. It's sort of like Gambits eyes being naturally black and red. As for the movie actress part, finding a half Kenyan half African American actress to play Storm might prove to be pretty difficult, considering that there pretty much aren't (that I can recall) any. However, just because that type of mixture is in low (as far as I know) supply, doesn't mean that there aren't better actresses out there who can pull off blue contacts, white hair, and a Kenyan accent successfully. Not trying to hate, but Halle Berry just isn't (in my opinion) a good actress to play Storm. When the first X-Men movie was being rumored, the first person I thought of was Storm. I started brainstorming on beautiful black actresses who could pull off white hair, blue eyes, and a kenyan accent, I thought of Angela Bassett and the like (but mostly Angela). Halle Berry never came to my mind and quite frankly, I am dissapointed with the choice (her Storm portrayal speaks for itself). She never made me believe she WAS the character she was portraying. Her hair was DREADFULLY AWFUL 'til X3 and even though they fixed that problem, they cannot fix her whiny voice and her eyes. I just felt like she was a woman playing dress up. And as for the different artists, I have no problem seeing there portrayal of Ororo as long as she has white hair and blue eyes. Even though I prefer the Phoenix Endsongish skinned colors, I always knew that it was Storm because I could imagine her voice and the way she acted. Halle (as far as film portrayals) pretty much ruined that for me. However, just because someone made a casting mistake, doesn't mean that my favorite X-Woman/Black character ever, should be effected by this White Washed title. And even if this title must stay (I hope not) I think it should be edited to show those who agree, and those who don't. Storm is black with white hair and blue eyes, and the artist who made her (Cockrum) is a genius for setting a character apart from the crowd. I hope other people state there opinions (whether you agree or not) so that SOMETHING can be done about this. P.S. Storm's father was black and so was her mother.69.19.14.29 13:36, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

White people are not the only race with straight hair. Besides that, Storm's hair color is PLATINUM WHITE, not BLONDE. Asians, Indians, Chinese, Japanese, and (naturally) even some African people can have straight hair. Also, if you feel Halle's portrayal of Storm was weak, then just say that. Don't blame it on the fact that she is half black and half white, especially since she wishes to be identified as a black woman. Storm has always been depicted as a white haired (again, not blonde), Kenyan/African-American, blue eyed mutant. Uncanny X-Men even shows her with her original cat-like eyes. With that said, how are you going to post that Storm has not always had blue eyes, when it was not only written, but drawn? You cannot argue with hundred upon hundreds (most importantly her first appearance) of scans. Black women have been known to straighten their hair as well (not saying that this applies to Storm), yet none of them have their very ethnicity threatened. So, having said that, this part of the article is HEAVILY BIASED and needs to be edited.66.82.9.80 03:23, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

First of all I have to agree with 66.82.9.80. This whole Whitewashed section on Storm should be deleted. Ororo's father was African American and her mother was African with white hair and blue eyes because her mother descended from a long line of female priestesses with magical powers. Colorists or whoever, like to color Storm with lighter skin when she is actually Kenyan who have dark skin. Her eyes have been blue since birth and her hair the same. African peoples, alone, typically do not have straight hair and usually have very curly hair unless their ancestry is diluted with other ethinicities. So, what. Her hair is her hair and her eyes are her eyes. I vote on deleting that whole part of the article. Elemental5293 (talk) 03:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


 * There were sources provided for reporting this accusation, though. Mentioning that it's been accused is not the same thing as saying the accusations have merit.  -- AvatarMN (talk) 00:25, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Recent Changes
I changed some things around to reflect some semblence of cohesion in the article. I renamed some catergories so that it's easier to summarize the information into a title. I think the powers and abilities section needs some desperate attention and needs to be taken out of in-universe style and grammatically proofed. Overall, I think minor adjustments need to be made to this article. 74.220.74.44 05:51, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:TurnerStorm.jpg
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BetacommandBot 05:19, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone know how to add images to articles. I need this info ASAP! Elemental5293 (talk) 03:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

ETERNITY
Dr. Strange has recently put eternity's consciousness into Ororo's, saying they are the only ones capable of hosting and handling the entity's power. I'm not saying she's Omega, but I am saying this is rather extreme for an Alpha level mutant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.19.14.40 (talk) 19:02, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Please cite this. --RossF18 20:37, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the feat took place in Fantastic Four #550.69.19.14.44 00:08, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it's good to refrence that feat in the main part of the article and not in the powers and abilities section. That section should be more like a list of her known abilities and powers, it should not include biographical information or lengthy explanations and comparisons to other fictional characters.  That borderlines on speculation.  If you can somehow word it differently in the powers and abilities section, without the whole story speculative comparison, then it should be mentioned there.  Otherwise, it would be prudent to have only one refrence mentioned in her biography or history sections.

74.220.74.44 18:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

That's a nice recommendation. If not that, could a summary of it in her potential sorceress abilities be possible? Just wondering if Dr. Strange's commment on their spirits meant that she was a potentially powerful witch. If not mystical, it might be that she was pulling off another planet-healing feat times a billion. On third thought, because of the two different possibilities this feats source has( since she was Eternity's life support for magic or mutant ability), I think it just might belong on the main article at least until further information is gathered.69.19.14.22 13:04, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Personally, I do believe it is in reference to her magical heritage. This is all my own speculation and should not be added to the main article.  However, that said, I believe that her magically inclined ancestors are amoung the more powerfull socerers of their respected times.  Ayesha of Balebadou, was most likely the first high Priestes and first Socereres Supreme.  Ashake was also a very influential and power magic wielder of her time.  Perhaps with each generation of magic users, their powers enhance culminating to the present generation: Storm.  Spirit and Will are not the same things.  Will is more like self-determination, which is why many psychics posess extreme powers of will.  Spirit is a quality more atuned to self-power.  This was just a ramble.  74.220.74.44 18:39, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Uhm -- I was the one who added the information about Dr. Strange saying that only Ororo and himself were of the spirit to handle Eternity's consciousness. It did indeed take place in FF #550. I can TRY to integrate it into the body of her history as suggested. However, I suspect that this does indeed confirm her as an Omega-Level mutant. I didn't think it had to do with her latent sorcerous potential so much. In the future, could you PLEASE contact or message someone before just taking out relevant information? Also -- a lot of people are just making changes without signing in (hence the IP request showing up). This doesn't tend to make Wiki useful -- and far LESS hospitable! (Mirror Ball 22:01, 15 October 2007 (UTC))Mirror Ball

Eternity II
Just leave my Eternity info OFF altogether! This is a milestone in her POWERS and belonged there. I'm sorry I ever even sugggested it. Just leave it off!!! Mirror Ball
 * It's not a matter of leaving out certain information regarding her comic book appearances or powers. It should be mentioned here.  However, you CANNOT make the claim that she is an omega-level mutant and use this information in support of your argument.  Your argument is simply speculation; Dr. Strange never stated that she was an omega-level mutant nor did writer/narrator of this particular comic.  If you can somehow trim the information down to a specific point (such as "Storm is known to have held the full conciousnes of Eternity; a feat demanding tremendous strength of spirit of which few characters in the Marvel Universe are known to posess").  Does that make sense?  BTW, wikipedia is designed to be editable by everyone, not just users.  74.220.74.44 18:23, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually -- if you read what I originally wrote, you'd see that I expressly said that this MAY be an INDICATION that she is an Omega-level mutant -- not that Strage had said one way or the other; I read the comic too, you know. Also, the suggestion that Storm may be an Omega-level mutant has been made by Hudlin and other writers in the past. I was just putting it out there because it seemed like a good idea to mention this in her power level as a milestone. BTW -- a little courtesy goes a long way. You seem intent on reverting ANYONE'S additions; I didn't originally change the set up -- I just added. It's cool though; I'm not going to get bent out of shape over this. You are welcome to have it the way YOU had it, though. Storm is....all yours. Have a nice day! Mirror Ball
 * Thank you for wishing me a nice day! You too have a wonderful day!  I am familiar with the Black Panther issue where Iron Man discusses the possibility of Storm being an omega-level mutant.  Thus, I have made the argument for cannonical appreciation of the phrase "possible omega-level mutant," which was used to describe her mutant status.  As it has been stated on the talk page of the Omega-level mutant article, it's not about what feat she, or any other character, may do.  It's about what is writtin in marvel cannon.  She may have imploded galaxies, plummeted worlds into forzen chaos, etc.  Those feats of power do not mean that she's an omega-level mutant.  Thus, you cannot connect the dots between her mutant status and her feats of power and conclude anything, other than in relative terms. To do so would be speculation.  Don't get me wrong, we speculate about things all the time.  However, since this is an encyclopedia, we have to distinguish what we truly know from what we believe to be so.  Hence, wikipedia's standard on speculation in articles.
 * Please understand that in no way do I think of myself as being right over others or yourself. What makes wikipedia work is the joint effort and cooperation on writing decent articles.  I respect your thoughts and opinions.  This article does not belong to me or anyone else and is fully editable by members of the public.  I wish you well and hope that you will continue to participate in writing the Storm article. 74.220.74.44 00:43, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Hey. I have a question, the article states that "She can create electric, magnetic, and electromagnetic fields". Wouldn't this mean that she has the same abilities as Magneto and/or Polaris? Thanks in advance! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.83.203.249 (talk) 14:18, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Well, Although Ororo can create electric, magnetic and electromagnetic fields, she doesn't have the ACTUAL power of magnetism. However, she can create and manipulate them to either create/counter powerful electric based domes, or, use them to inhance her weather manipulating abilities, like Magneto can do with her lightning. Magneto's mutant ability enables him to be, well, a powerful magnet. But Storm's mutant ability allows her to use the various fields of earth or other planets to inhance her weather powers. Hope this helps!66.82.9.62 21:48, 27 October 2007 (UTC) 14rolemac
 * That's not true. Storm's character should be able to easily generate and manipulate magnetic fields.  The fundamental particle of electromagnetism is the electron.  Whenever an electron "moves" it generates a magetic field, hence the phrase electromagnetism.  Depending on how energetically the eletron moves determines the frequency of light (photons) produced.  In otherwords, a highly energitc electomagnetic field will produce high frequecny photons.  The lowest detectable frequency being radio waves, the highest detectable frequecny being gamarays; visible light lies somewhere in-between.  Lightnining produces light at all frequencies.  Storm has shown the ability to move electrons (thus make magnetic fields), whether it's to create lightning or disperse the physical essence of Stardust.  If anything, Storms potential to wield the electromagnetic force should be greater than that of Magneto because her power is inherently psionic and his is not (and that's cannon).  His power is to manipulate feromagnetic conditions based upon his highly electrolytic physiology.  In other words, his body is a giant magnet.  Not to downplay Mags though, he can still absorb and will a great amount of force and he's a genius!  What it boils down to is the writters.  Some writters know a little bit about how nature works, some don't.  The way lightning, for example, is depicted in comics is far from it's actual nature and power.  As many people have experienced, a single lightning bolt can casue blackouts (because of the associated electromagnetic pulse) in neighborhoods, blow-up trees, cars, and houses!, start enourmous wild fires, etc.  And yet, as it is generaly depected in comics, a person being struck by lightning usually is just thrown back a few feet and gets up a few mintues later without any physical harm being done.74.220.74.44 20:44, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

My apologies, perhaps I should put this differently. It was not my intention to say Storm cannot create/manipulate electric, magnetic, and electromagnetic fields. As my previous post says, I know very well that she has this ability as it has been said, written, and drawn. However, while we do have common ground with this, I must say that I am going by Marvel CANNON, not SPECULATION. I have yet to read an issue of X-Men where it shows Storm MAGNETICALLY move a car, or MAGNETICALLY lift enemies. The day that this is written in a Marvel book, I probably rush to her article and put it in her powers and abilities. But she has yet to do this, so I can't say that she can, but I'm also not saying that she can't. Also, yes, I know that Storm's powers are psionic. In fact, that's actually part of the reason why she is so difficult to track down by psychics (that and the fact that the girl has indomitable will/spirit power thus hosting Eternity). But the problem is, I've seen/read Storm move just about anything with her powerful winds, but I haven't seen her move metallic objects with magnetism. The question was could she use her powers like Magneto/Polaris, and the answer in short would be KINDA. Lightning/Electricity and Magnetism are so closely related, and Storm's ability to manipulate the ENTIRE EARTH'S weather/fields is so incredible, that it would not surprise me if one day she MAGNETICALLY lifted a car. But, from what I know, she hasn't. So with that said, it "MIGHT" be possible for her to use her powers like Magneto/Polaris. But while she can generate pretty much anything electric, it has yet to be said in a marvel comic that she CAN do the EXACT same thing that they can. So, with that said, until there is further proof showing that she can, it is mere speculation. 66.82.9.108 21:18, 29 October 2007 (UTC) 14rolemac
 * Understood. And you are totally right about the character not using magnetic abilities to "lift cars."  However, she has moved metallic objects with lightning-based attacks, which is essentially the same thing, but only with the flashy lighning effect.  Hmm...  I do find it interesting that when Polaris is using her abilities to the max, like when she almost killed Vulcan, her magnetic powers tend to stream like green lightning.  Thanks for the post74.220.74.44 21:55, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the lightning thing. Writers really need to take science and math classes. Lightning is highly dangerous. Lightning is not concussive. It's extremely hot and once it hits you it either electrocutes you or burns you usually to a blackened crisp. It can stop people's heartbeats. I don't know why writers depict electricity and lightning as concussive blasts. On the lowest levels but that's pushing it. I disagree on the Magneto thing. Magneto's power are psionic. He bends and manipulates magnetism, magnetic fields and electromagnetism psionically using his body like a battery. I believe, Storm's power over the elements and natural forces are highly unlikely able to magnetically levitate a car or alter magnetic fields. If she hasn't already. Storm's lightning against Magneto just feeds him with more power to wield. The more energy his power he has, the easier it is for him to psionically manipulate magnetic forces. However, I do agree that Storm is teetering on the line between Alpha-level mutant and Omega-level mutant like Prof. X and Magneto. The whole definition of Omega-level mutant is unlimited potential and the ability to bring about the end of the world. Storm has the end of the world part but I don't think she has unlimited power and potential. Elemental5293 (talk) 03:24, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Magneto's Powers aren't psionic. He channels his powers through his nervous system. Storm has a mental connection to the weather. Magneto has a more physical connection to it.69.19.14.20 14:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

No problem. I'm very, very happy that we were able to settle this in a nice and pretty funny manner (unlike the white washed topic). 69.19.14.36 23:42, 29 October 2007 (UTC) 14rolemac

Hi. It's quite a debate I started here! Thanks to you both for the time you put in these answers, it's all a lot more clear to me now. Greetings! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.83.203.249 (talk) 12:09, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Possible Sorceress Supreme
Hi, I'm a really, really huge fan of Storm, and I know just about everything about the character. But, just wandering, isn't her ancestor, Ayesha, an ACTUAL Sorceress Supreme? In the same book where Storm is 1/3 High Priestess, and Ashake traces her African roots to Ayesha, it lists her as a Sorceress Supreme from 10,000bc, til 6,000bc. Looking at that, it seems like it should be said that she WAS a Sorceress Supreme. I just want to address this, since it applies to Storm's already great magic potential. Also, would it be possible for there to be something about Ashake, other ancestors (possibly alternate versions) of Storm, and magic feats that could possibly be performed by her? She's been hinted at being a powerful latent witch throughout most of her exsistence and it would be nice to see more about the magic side.66.82.9.62 22:20, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

In Uncanny X-Men #103, Storm says quote, "Wind and wave, sea and storm hear my words and begone!" and the sky goes clear after that. This is not the only time Storm has "SPOKEN" to the weather to make effects take place. Just wondering, is she manifesting her mutant power through a chant, or is she just controlling her mutant power in a different way.66.82.9.59 01:26, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Another interesting factoid to bring up is that the character Ainet, the "foster-mom" of Ororo, was a sorceress herself. She wasn't on par with the greatest, nontheless, she was her villiages priestess and sole magic user.  She supposedly taught Ororo how to better deal with her emerging mutant powers, though she did not recognize them as being of mutant origin.  Ainet is officailly mentioned in the Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe as being a magic user.  She could have easily taught Storm some spells and the like. 74.220.74.44 03:55, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

This is too AWESOME! This makes since of the chants, her expertise in weather manipulation and everything! I knew Ainet taught her how to use her powers, but it never crossed my mind how she did. A tribal priestess of strong will, teaching a mutant with latent magic abilities. It all really makes since. Actually, now that I think about it, X-treme X-Men (I think issue 12) says, "When Storm was a little girl, making rain was magic, but the "magic" was her mutant power. It is very save to assume that while she has not used magic on the scale of Dr. Strange, or Selene, that magical "TRAINING" is what gave Storm her powerful will power and spirit. 69.19.14.40 12:26, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * My personal theory, mind you this is all speculation, is that Storm is a descendent of Agamotto and Ushtur, two gods that make up the trinity of the Vishanti. I think that before Agamotto transcended this plane, he left behind human descendents.  His descendents possesed the inherent ability to perfrom magic and to call upon him and Ushtur in times of great duress.  Eventually, their came a time when the Earth needed protection from supernatural threats, and so Agamotto selected a Sorcerer Supreme.  The first Sorcerer Supreme, after Agamotto, was not of Agamottos bloodline, but nonetheless was powerfull enough to combat the dark magics of his time.  The reason why I think that Ororo is part of Ushtur and Agamotto's bloodline, is that her matrilineal lineage is too closely related to the Vishanti's magic.  And their genetic traits, white hair, blue vertically slited eyes, and magic ability, are not common amoung peoples of East Africa.  these genetic traits had to be introduced from a foreign body, which I believe was one of the Vishanti.74.220.74.44 20:58, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

There was a topic in the previous archive that went like this.

Possible Origin of the Storm Character The character Storm may have been a derival from actual real-life people called Rain Queens since she controlled the weather as they are believed to do. The Rain Queens of Balobedu are a matrilineal line of women who have reigned over the Balobedu Tribe of the Limpopo Province of Soouth Africa. It is said that Rain Queens have the ability to control the clouds and rainfall. Currently there is no ruling Rain Queen as the previous Rain Queen has recently passed away.

Ayesha of BALOBEDU was Storm's Sorceress Supreme ancestor, and their have been other WIND RIDERS in Storm's mystic bloodline. That means that this previous topic has now been officially confirmed in marvel cannon and I think that it should be included somewhere in her character article. Since Storm has now been officially connected to these women. Oh, and also, the title WEATHER WITCH now has an entirely new meaning. 66.82.9.108 21:56, 29 October 2007 14rolemac (UTC)

Ancestral Line
Storm's ability to control the weather has been manifested on more than one occasion through chants. She has said stuff like "Wind and wave, sea and storm, her my words and begone!" and the weather would change. Emma Frost even did a chant that made rapid weather effects take place. Before, I wouldn't think to much of this. I would just think she was just using her mutant power in a different way. But then I found out a little bit more about where she comes from. Ororo is the descendant of Marvel's version of the Rain Queens. There have been other Wind Riders in her mystic line, saying that there were other Weather Witches like her. Storm's ancestor, Ayesha of Balobedu, was from, well, Balobedu. The odds of Marvel accidentally saying, "Hey, of all the places in the world, lets choose Balobedu to be her ancestors homeland" are grimly slim. I mean, come on, it's not speculation any longer, Storm's character has direct blood connections to the Rain Queens of the Marvel Universe (I'm thinking that Marvel's version of the Rain Queens has silver hair, and blue, vertically slitted eyes.). I find this very exciting, and I think something more should be said about her newly explained sorceress origins. Especially since they go all the way back to the dawn of Atlantis. 69.19.14.26 12:52, 31 October 2007 (UTC) 14rolemac


 * Ashake now lives in the present! See Mystic Arcana: Nico Minoru  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.220.74.44 (talk) 17:46, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

WOW! Now this, I am looking forward too! By the way, on the subject of Ashake, does anyone think that there should be a page created for her? The New Mutants article by itself would have been short, but with the new Mystic Arcana information, mixed with the upcoming journey of Ian and Ashake, I think it would be fair to give the Priestess her own BIO page. I think she has enough history and magic abilities to haver her own BIO. Does anyone have any thoughts/suggestions?69.19.14.22 21:58, 9 November 2007 (UTC)14rolemac
 * I say go for it! 74.220.74.44 22:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, I did my best, wrote and submitted her article. If all works out like I hope, she will get the recognition she deserves. Well, that and more possibilities for Storm. Thanks a lot for the encouragement! I'm hoping that everything goes well!66.82.9.83 05:14, 10 November 2007 (UTC)14rolemac

Well, they declined it. Not let down though. I must admit that I am not the best when it comes to writing articles. But I am quite skilled when it comes to editing them. Since I don't have any other place to write this, I figured would use the closest thing to it, Storm. With that said, does anyone have any opinions or ideas for writing something for Ashake? If possible, Me and other fans of the character would appreciate it.69.19.14.39 16:31, 10 November 2007 (UTC)14rolemac
 * Check this out. Oshtur74.220.74.40 (talk) 03:05, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

WOW! That's really good. I didn't even know all of that.69.148.241.179 (talk) 15:13, 4 February 2008 (UTC)14rolemac

Powers & abilities?
What happend to the well writen concise editorial of Storm's powers & abilities section? Can someone explain why there was such a major edit to the alread well substantiated section? This current sections cites no references, is writien in in-universal style, lacks spelling and grammatical proof, and is chucked full of speculative comments. Either is needs some major restructuring or it's going to be deleted. That's not a threat from me, but it's part of wikipedia's standards of "Good Articles," which this article was nominated for and won. I'm a fan of the character, but fan-people please get a hold of yourselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.220.74.44 (talk) 05:59, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Re-inserted old section. Wow, that version SUCKED. —Onomatopoeia (talk) 10:33, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Powers and abilities: WP:WAF et cruft
Dear fellow Wikipedians, if trying to establish Storm's superpowers, stay concise. Cruft will be deleted as of WP:WAF, and for the rest, use WP:CITE/WP:FOOT/WP:NOR please. —Onomatopoeia (talk) 13:55, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Uxm170.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:23, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


 * updated fair use info; tag has been removed. Bookkeeperoftheoccult (talk) 10:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Uxm449.jpg
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 * updated fair use info; tag has been removed. Bookkeeperoftheoccult (talk) 10:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Xmenstud`cio009zi3.jpg
Image:Xmenstud`cio009zi3.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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 * updated fair use info; tag has been removed.Bookkeeperoftheoccult (talk) 09:52, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

A-Class Nomination
I nominated this article for A-class because of the revisions and notes carried out from the failed feature article review. SluggerBugger (talk) 00:05, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Merge
See the merge discussion on Alternate versions of Storm--RossF18 (talk) 02:03, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Storm-Forge.JPG
Image:Storm-Forge.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * updated fair use info; tag has been removed.Bookkeeperoftheoccult (talk) 09:52, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Storm-bigcostume2.jpg
Image:Storm-bigcostume2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * updated fair use info; tag has been removed.Bookkeeperoftheoccult (talk) 09:52, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Archive 2?
Should we begin to archive this talk page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.220.74.40 (talk) 03:35, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Video Games Section - Citation?
In the Video Games section it states "In late 2007, fans began petitioning for Storm to have her own video game and movie." Where did this information originate from and where is the (if any) online forum for it? Please Respond! Mc8755 (talk) 21:55, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * There is a link at the bottom of the page . The broader point is that this is not really worth of inclusion. Reviews or sales figures are the kind of general thing we'd use to gauge reception, what one of group of fans did or didn't think is usually neither here not there (and it being mentioned in an article is usually a red flag), unless the fan reaction was so large and vocal that it became news, in which case it becomes notable and worthy of mention. This doesn't seem to make the grade. (Emperor (talk) 04:20, 17 May 2008 (UTC))

Storm's Name
Storm's married name was just recently revealed in Astonishing X-Men #25 as being Ororo Iqadi T'Challa. This is not original research, it's stated in cannon.74.220.74.40 (talk) 04:01, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Secret Invasion
In Black Panther: Secret Invasion, Storm was seen fighting alongside fellow Wakandan warriors against the Skrulls. I think this would be good to add to her page. Zhaizetta (talk) 19:27, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright, so do you think this appearance and involvement is notable/significant to the plot or a notable/significant development of her character? If you think 'yes' to those questions and can explain why, then it'd probably be worthwhile to add.  If it's just her acting as the character would normally as the Queen of Wakanda and nothing particularly special happens to her, then it's probably not necessary to add.  Hope that helps.Luminum (talk) 02:12, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Hhmm. Well, put that way, it probably doesn't need mentioning at the moment. Unless she does something big, it really is just her acting as Queen. It was interesting, but not really a development for the character. Thanks for the help. Zhaizetta (talk) 19:39, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No prob.Luminum (talk) 03:18, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Omega and source fix.
In Storm's powers section, for some reason, it says her character has been described as being "Omega-level" and not "Possibly" or "Potentially". She's never been confirmed, just hinted. So I think that part should be reworded. Also, the source for the "(Possible) Omega)" is wrong. She was hinted in Black Panther #21.  Not Black Panther #25.  Zhaizetta (talk) 00:54, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I added a dubious tag per Template:Dubious to that statement. I also added a citation tag to the statement that Storm is one of the most powerful characters in the Marvel universe; it is a strong (unsourced) statement to make concidering the vast amount of very powerful beings in the Marvel universe. 91.95.6.80 (talk) 22:07, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your help. Also, it has been stated that Storm is one of the most powerful MUTANTS on the face of the earth. But "Characters"? I don't think I've ever seen that before. I think "Characters" should be replaced with "Mutants". Then, it would be far more reasonable, and in canon. Zhaizetta (talk) 14:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Maybe "Storm is a very powerful human mutant", with a (if possible) reference added? I will try to find a source before I make the change. About the Omega information, if you are 100 % sure about the Black Panther issue, you should change the statement to "she was hinted as.." and give the correct comic issue. 91.95.6.80 (talk) 22:34, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

"In Black Panther #21, a sentinel identified Storm as a possible Omega-level mutant". How's that? Zhaizetta (talk) 23:54, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good. I changed the description of Storm to a more appropiate one. I also found it to be more objective not to include the word "very" though. 91.95.6.80 (talk) 02:03, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I like the way it's worded now. The "Powerful human mutant" part is reasonable, and accurate. And the Omega part has been changed. Well, problem solved. Thanks for the help. Zhaizetta (talk) 03:35, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Nephew
Storm has a nephew named spike i think? I dont see him metion in the article as he is family to her, and he had the ability to make spikes come out of his body.Grimmjow E6 (talk) 07:01, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The article is about Storm from the comics, specifically from the 616 universe. Spyke (the one you're thinking of, at least) is only a character in the X-Men: Evolution version and therefore would not be mentioned as one of 616 Storm's family members.  The section that mentions XME Storm already includes her relationship to him.Luminum (talk) 07:22, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

What Did She Do To Stardust?
When Storm and Black Panther were with the Fantastic Four, Storm attacked Stardust and made her vanish. Her (Stardust's) body just sorta vanished. What did she (Storm) do exactly?Zhaizetta (talk) 15:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Powers and abilities section need not be broken up into four sub-sections
There is no reason to retain four sub-sections in the 'powers and abilities' part of this article; you could easily compress all of the relevant info - powers, magic, skills, physiological traits - into one section, as has been done in most of the other Wikipedia articles about X-Men characters. There is no need to devote an entire sub-section to the character's magical abilities when in actual fact the character as depicted in the comics has rarely displayed such abilities and relies on her natural powers 99.9% of the time. This isn't a fanboy argument about the character - I'm not saying that there should be no mention of Storm's magical potential, I'm just saying that for the sake of accuracy this should be included in a way that better reflects the comics. Similarly, there is no need to have a separate sub-section on physiological traits - these traits are a part of the character's powers and should be included along with the description of these powers. Most of the other articles on characters from the X-Men series have a single sub-section for powers and abilities; there is no reason that should not be the case here. Earlier today I edited the section and turned the four sections into one, trying to retain all the original info; subsequently someone changed it back to exactly the way it was. I'm not going to try to change it again - obviously whoever changed it back didn't like my editing job. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, but please compress it into one section, for the sake of a more readable article. - 67.84.154.54 (talk) 20:35, 18 August 2008 (UTC) 18 August 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.154.54 (talk) 20:30, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Don't mean to be harsh, but you're damn right I didn't like your editing job. This, and every other modification that followed, was pure original research. Do not replace valid, sourced content with such nonsense. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:44, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

My genuine apologies for the lack of citation; I shouldn't make changes unless I'm prepared to locate source material. But the section still needs to be condensed. Why a whole sub-section on the character's immunity to weather when this is a side-effect of her powers? Why a long paragraph on (hinted at!) magical abilities when the character uses her natural powers 99.9% of the time? Also, while we're on the subject of unsourced content, no reliable source is provided for the claim that Storm has been depicted as 'creating magnetic fields,' except in the technical sense that a moving electric current always necessarily produces a magnetic field. In ordinary superhero parlance, 'creating magnetic fields' implies the kind of metal-controlling powers used by Cosmic Boy, Magneto, etc. It is misleading to say that Storm has been depicted as using magnetic powers based on a physical technicality (this came up before in the discussion page and was 'resolved' in favor of whoever wrote the original piece). A few sentences later it is implied (without exactly saying so) that Storm can manipulate machines and nervous systems insofar as she can perceive energy patterns, which claim also lacks any kind of citation. Also, unless some kind of note (such as 'on rare occasions') is added to the sentence about manipulating cosmic storms, solar wind, and ocean currents it leaves the impression that the character is depicted as manipulating these forces on a regular basis, when in fact you can probably count on one hand the number of times in the books she has manipulated cosmic storms, solar wind and ocean currents. As for manipulating the electromagnetic field, again this relies on a physical technicality - obviously if she generates lightning bolts she must also be wielding electromagnetism to some extent, but in the books her 'manipulation of the electromagnetic field' is limited to lightning bolts 99% of the time. These sentences distort the character's abilities for the casual, non-comic book reader. Like I said before, I should not have edited this page without citing sources; but these problems remain. 67.84.154.54 (talk) 21:52, 18 August 2008 (UTC) - 18 August 2008


 * Why not let WP:COMICS know about this? They might be willing to help condense the various sections. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 21:58, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Never heard of WP COMICS before now. Thanks for the tip. 67.84.154.54 (talk) 22:36, 18 August 2008 (UTC) - 18 August 2008

Recent powers changes
I'd like to bring attention to the recent powers edits and changes based on the Marvel Database. The Marvel Database in question is actually a wiki of its own. It is an open-editing database and is not made to reflect official descriptions on Marvel characters. The only definitive online source on Marvel information is Marvel itself. You can read Storm's profile here: http://www.marvel.com/universe/Storm, which does not support the information that was recently added. Also, my opinion (which you can feel free to discuss) is that breaking the powers section down to specific abilities, some of which use speculation-heavy terminology, is unnecessary and contrary to better established Wiki superhero powers sections.

Therefore, I'm going to revert the changes that have been made, which I'm sure were in good faith. You can discuss the change here with me and others if you take issue with it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Luminum (talk • contribs) 14:53, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Scott Lobdell and the Punk Revival
The article has the following sentences under "Punk Revival (1980's): Later, Storm overhears a phone conversation between Forge and Gyrich, and discovers Forge built the weapon that took her powers. She is heartbroken and leaves him.[15] Lobdell later recalled a certain level of fan backlash: after portraying her as vulnerable and distressed, he was accused of weakening her as a character and even having "ruined" her.[16]

The last sentence says that [Scott] Lobdell recalled backlash and says that "he" (presumably Scott Lobdell) was accused of weakening the character. The punk revival was done when Claremont was writing the book in the mid 1980's. As I recall, Lobdell didn't work for Marvel on the X-books until the early 1990's; the Lobdell wikipedia entry seems to back this up.

I can understand that maybe Lobdell (as a fan or as a later writer) remembers a backlash from this transformation, but how can he be accused of ruining the character when he had nothing to do with the transformation?

On the other hand, it was Lobdell who wrote the story where Storm broke down after Forge rescinded his marriage proposal (Growth as a character, 1990's). Maybe that was where that sentence was meant to go?

Or if the sentence was trying to say that Lobdell remembers the backlash, but Claremont was accused of weakening the character, than it should be clarified. Anechoic Man (talk) 17:17, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The way I read it, the 'weakening" in question was Storm's heartbreak, etc. not her change to a punk individual, which was most likely a perceived strengthening of the character. So I read the "backlash" being Lobell's choice of writing Storm into vulnerable relationships and not referencing Claremont's punk revival at all.  It may seem ambiguous because it's under her Punk Revival section, but that's just chronologically where it appears to fit best, as it occurred during her punk stage, albeit much later.Luminum (talk) 19:43, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I conflated a couple of different things into my statement. The storyline with Storm/Forge/Gyrich happened (IIRC) around Uncanny X-Men 170-190 (or thereabouts) in the 1980's, many years before Lobdell came on board. Claremont wrote Storm into a relationship with Forge in that period, and later in the 1990's Lobdell wrote the story with Forge's rescinded proposal. The point is that if there was criticism of the "weakening" of Storm in the Storm/Forge/Gyrich storyline, it must have been Claremont receiving the criticism since he was writing the book at the time.. If there was criticism of the Forge proposal/Storm's breakdown story, then it must have Lobdell receiving the criticism since Claremont had left Marvel and Lobdell was writing the book. Therefore, "Lobdell later recalled a certain level of fan backlash: after portraying her as vulnerable and distressed, he was accused of weakening her as a character and even having "ruined" her" is either wrong or in the wrong place. Anechoic Man (talk) 02:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Headers
The constant reverting of edits without any kind of discussion needs to stop, as per WP:OWN. I think that Television, Film, Video Games require their own headers, rather than being placed in "Other media", simply because it improves the LOOK of the page. Subheaders would be fine where there were not further subheaders within them. There is no need to have third-level subheaders where the same information can be presented with two. Storm's appearance in other media has been extensive enough to warrant separate headers for the different media. While she is originally and most significantly a comic book phenomenon, she has clearly expanded well beyond that medium and in a notable way. Also, it makes sense for commercials to be subcategorized beneath television, and lastly, a theme park ride is not "media", warranting a need for another section, which could be expanded to include other appearances. Do not revert my edits without a discussion here.&mdash; Godheval T C W 15:11, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Video Game citations
There is absolutely no need for the video games that Storm has appeared in to be cited, as the media speak for themselves. It is not open to interpretation or subject to debate. Where she appeared in the games, it is simply fact, verifiable by looking at the games themselves. You do not see a need in movie articles for appearances of actors to be cited, and this works the same way. All of the "citation needed" tags ruin the look of the article.&mdash; Godheval T C W 15:11, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * First off, the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. That means that if Storm is indeed in those video games, citations are required regardless of it being "true". Second, the headers were already styled appropriately per Manual of Style & WikiProject Comics/exemplars (though they should still be improved). Finally, Godheval, I strongly suggest you have a read of Ownership of articles since you really didn't care to listen the first couple of times. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 16:31, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You'll see hardly any such citations in the articles of other comic book characters. What was it that I didn't listen to?  There was no discussion, simply a RV of my edits.  Suggestion considered, then disregarded as nonsense. After reading the manual of style, I maintain that my argument stands for giving the other media their own headers.  Create an RFC if need be, but I stand by my edits and will not tolerate your lordship over this article. &mdash; Godheval T C W 17:09, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * And for all you say about "verifiability", we might as well require a citation for every single statement made in this article. Did she really appear in X-Men evolution, or the X-men animated series?  Oops, someone had better VERIFY it.  Is her name really Ororo Munroe?  Someone had better VERIFY it.  At some point, it becomes excessive.  This is one such case.  &mdash; Godheval T C W 17:19, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uh, yes? That's kind of the point of Wikipedia policy. However only the most important bits of data need to be cited. Inclusively, this is no time to joke around so cease with the sarcasm and grow up. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:40, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You said "However only the most important bits of data need to be cited.". Precisely right.  Verifying her appearance in those games IS NOT IMPORTANT, nor is it even necessary.  You made my argument for me. &mdash; Godheval T C W 17:42, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If you choose to interpret what I convey in an irrelevant manner that's your problem. There actually is a specific guideline for sourcing video game appearances, can't seem to find the link though. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:46, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * There was no interpretation involved. I took what you said and used it to point out the fallacy in your argument.  It doesn't become irrelevant simply because you've managed to wedge your e-foot in your e-mouth. &mdash; Godheval T C W 17:51, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * What the hell is that supposed to mean?! If you are insinuating something inappropriate then you better back off now and lay off of it. Choose your words carefully the next time. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:57, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Or...what? You'll get all flustered and red in the face and type with some more moral indignation?  Please.  In any case, I wasn't insinuating anything.  I was SAYING explicitly that you made my argument for me by pointing out that verification is only necessary for "more important" parts.  There was no misinterpretation involved, nor was anything I said irrelevant. To be honest, I am not even sure the reason you insist on this article being formatted the way it is.  There is no harm - quite the contrary the article is improved - in using separate headers for the other media.  As for the video game citations, are they really THAT big of a deal?  Are they worth all of this arguing, really?  I'm not even arguing against the citations, just against the ugly "citation needed" tags.  If anyone wants to come in an add the VG citations, they'll receive no resistance from me.  But it is something that is not important enough to warrant a tag.  That's really the only point I'm making about that.  &mdash; Godheval T C W 18:11, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The fact that the tags are "ugly" is your opinion and, again, irrelevant. Your edits are ruining a possible future FA with your so-called preferences. I will not allow you to carry an ignorance for our policies here or anywhere else I see you violating them for that matter. Just be glad that I'm not scanning through your contributions (yet) and giving you an earful. Pray that you won't be vandalizing up on my watch ... Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:22, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You take yourself quite seriously don't you? By all means, waste your time scanning through my edits.  Pray?  To who, the e-gods?  For what?  That I be spared the incendiary wrath of SESSHOMARU, "e-lord of the internets"?  Give me a break, kid.  This is really not that major.  In looking through the other X-men articles, it seems to me that the best course of action - and one that should satisfy both of us, is to streamline the other media section and create a new article Storm in other media.  As for FA status, which I guess is a BIG DEAL (I mean, hell, don't kill yourself if you don't get it, it'll be okay!), this article has so many other issues that my edits will have nothing to do with whether or not it's selected. Try improving the overall writing, rather than worrying about such minor things. In fact, I'm going to go ahead and be bold and make that change right now.  &mdash; Godheval T C W 18:27, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't appreciate your implications that I am "emo" and frankly don't care whatever sick twisted thoughts you have of you and me when you keep saying "e-". Read up on No personal attacks and Civility. Go do whatever the hell you want so long as you quit screwing up Storm's page. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:47, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Emo? Ha ha.  No.  E-whatever is meant like E-mail, i.e. electronic, i.e. NOT REAL.  Anyway, my friend, you have incriminated yourself.  YOUR page?  Perhaps you should read up on WP:OWN. That is exactly what I was referring to earlier about your reverts.  Again you prove my points for me.&mdash; Godheval T C W 19:18, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Huh? I don't know what you're talking about. Just keep your disgusting thoughts to yourself ... Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 19:44, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Other Media
Another suggestion, to avoid all of this argument over the formatting of the other media, is to create a new article, similar to Wolverine in other media. At this point, Storm may have made enough appearances to warrant it. &mdash; Godheval T C W 17:17, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Munroe or Monroe?
As far as I've seen, this part of the name isn't really cited or attributed to anything, as far as research has gone, it appears as even the makers have messed up with a typo here and there, as if you read, you will see that it lists both names.

I have to ask, that, if anyone has really read the comics, and they can remember the specific comic, they can cite the true spelling of the name.—  Dæ dαlus Contribs  20:59, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Munroe.72.129.228.240 (talk) 01:48, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Main Picture Change
The picture is nice and all, but there are more recent pictures of Storm that could be used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.129.228.240 (talk) 21:25, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Given that characters change costumes frequently (or, have several depending on which book they're in, as is Storm's case), a new picture is not necessary every time. An image that clearly identifies the character, including a costume that is relatively current is fine.  Readers can identify Storm visually by her hair, skin color, tiara, body type, and dark top and dark cape.Luminum (talk) 21:27, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Peer Review
How about we try again for a FA status nom? --RossF18 (talk) 03:22, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see why not ;) Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:30, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think we should consider reviewing the article and compare it to the previous FA review notes first. Then make sure all the revisions have been met and then submit to be peer reviewed.63.249.98.216 (talk) 00:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I've just done a quick read through for the missing B-class assessment and it is missing references, especially in the P&A section (there are two whole paragraphs of claims without any support). My best advice is to see if anything else can be sourced (or even think about trimming it down as we don't really know about every one of her feats) and then give me a nudge and I'll give it a more thorough read through and flag anything I see that needs doing. Sort that out and it should be in a good position for pushing on for GA. (Emperor (talk) 21:50, 18 September 2009 (UTC))