Talk:Storm Dennis

Size
Been hearing that this storm is apparently 1,200 miles wide - nearing the size of Typhoon Tip.

Should this be included in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.66.73.199 (talk • contribs) 17:33, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
 * It's not a typhoon, so it wouldn't be an apples to apples comparison. Thegreatdr (talk) 17:50, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed - no comparison necessary, no equivalence there. But I don't see why the figure alone can't be mentioned - it is one massive storm. Buttons0603 (talk) 22:25, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Formed
Formed on 10 February (infobox) or 11 Feb. (body text)? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:57, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Resolved - actually the 9th! Buttons0603 (talk) 22:25, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Comparative strength
Can anyone who wants to add either version of these edits pleae stop doing this, or provide a reliable source about Dennis claiming this? Per WP:SYNTH, we may not add such "facts" based on older reports only, but without anything backing it up for the current storm (if it is true but no one reliable has reported it, it is WP:UNDUE anyway to include it). Leaving this out of the article is not a problem: edit warring over it with no or outdated sources ("outdated" for this 2020 storm) is not right though. Fram (talk) 15:04, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
 * It's at least a tie for third deepest since 1986...but other deeper storms impacted northwest Europe before that which are referenced in the European pressure extremes article. Best not refer to Braer in the article, though adding it in as a See Also isn't a bad idea.  Thegreatdr (talk) 17:54, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * What's the point of adding it as a "See also", when there is nothing in the article even resembling an explanation of its relevance?  Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:25, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I think there is relevant material in one of the external links, the NOAA Satellite Liaison Blog. Though I don't know of any credible analysis of a pressure as low as 910 hPa.Lacunae (talk) 19:27, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The lowest I have seen is the ECMWF post-analysis at 919mb, but this was on a tweet, so not sure how accurate. Most sources are saying 920. This source from The Weather Channel, which I have added, does definitively show Dennis as the second strongest North Atlantic low ever recorded behind Braer. Buttons0603 (talk) 22:25, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * It is wrong, I suggest you go to Burt's peer reviewed publication https://rmets.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/wea.20 Lacunae (talk) 23:44, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I have read it before. That paper, while very useful in other cases, is for pressure measured on land in the British Isles only. Dennis and the Braer Storm both had their deepest lows well offshore, and Dennis' was far closer to Iceland than the UK in any case. Buttons0603 (talk) 23:57, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Guh.Lacunae (talk) 00:23, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I have also seen 919 mbar on icon analysis at ventusky.com, category 5 hurricane 🌀 nonetheless! Edit of edit (talk) 07:09, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Braer hurricane (913 mbar, 85 mph) was as strong as hurricane irma (914 mbar, 185 mph) by pressure Edit of edit (talk) 07:11, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Use of American (unofficial names)
The names of these storms is confusing enough without adding private weather company naming schemes from the US into the mix so prominently. the name Mabel is a minor footnote, Victoria according to the FUB is by far the more widely used synonym.Lacunae (talk) 17:15, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Unofficial or not, Mabel is the WP:COMMONNAME in North America, and worth a mention since there were widespread impacts there that I've since added. From what I have seen Victoria (from the FUB) is neither an official nor common name (Dennis fits both of those for Europe) so a footnote should suffice. Buttons0603 (talk) 22:25, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't mean to be rude, but this is utter codswallop.Lacunae (talk) 23:46, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm really not sure it is. Do you suggest another common name for North America? There isn't one because there is no official naming system over there. As for the Free University of Berlin, they are not a government meterological department like the Met Office etc therefore their names are as unofficial as The Weather Channel's, whether they are widely used or not. Whether they are used commonly or not seems to vary from storm to storm but Dennis has been used far more than Victoria for this one. Buttons0603 (talk) 23:54, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * see post below.Lacunae (talk) 00:19, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Constructive criticism and page modification
If a certain editor refuses to accept constructive criticism and page editing, then I suggest another format may be more auspicious for you.Lacunae (talk) 23:51, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * There is no need for attacks. This edit was an attempt at a compromise between our differing views - I am sorry that you didn't find it acceptable and I'm willing to see what you can suggest alternatively. However, then you went and reverted it all, wiping out a large unrelated edit to the UK impacts section in the process (which I have reverted you simply in order to reinstate that). Please don't go heavy-handed with the reverting elsewhere. Buttons0603 (talk) 00:11, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Have at it.Lacunae (talk) 00:18, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm trying to discuss this but acting like a child will get you nowhere. Buttons0603 (talk) 00:32, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The way to resolve this is to start a separate article on 2020 England and Wales floods. Why has no-one started that article?  Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:05, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's the main issue here but regardless, good idea – the UK section on Dennis is getting a bit big and bulky anyway and I was thinking of splitting it into something along the lines of Effects of Storm Dennis in the United Kingdom anyway. Instead of that I shall go ahead and move 2019 England floods to 2019–20 United Kingdom floods and WP:SPLIT much of the content to there along with applicable content from the Storm Ciara article, then the Ciara & Dennis articles can be focused on impacts in other countries, wind effects, meteorological background etc. Buttons0603 (talk) 21:48, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * While a split was obviously a good idea, I'm concerned as to how it's been done . To give just one example, 2019–20 United Kingdom floods is nothing to do with floods, if it's to be included anywhere it should be here. FDW777 (talk) 12:07, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * They are kind of connected? But I agree, might be better brought back here. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:35, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry I just copied the whole thing forgetting about that part. I'll move wind impacts back here. Buttons0603 (talk) 22:23, 23 February 2020 (UTC)