Talk:Stormwater/Archive 1

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Cameronhassibi.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 10:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 August 2020 and 4 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): EcoWarrior22. Peer reviewers: Hydrogeo25, Spacewanderer7.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 10:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Unlabelled comment
The last version was somewhat inaccurate. The non point source provisions of the clean water act were adopted by congress in 1987. It took EPA a few years to issue the first NPDES permits under phase I of the program. Most permits were issued by EPA or the responsible state agencies to phase I permittees around 1991. Some areas were a bit earlier and some a bit later. Phase II of the program kicked in in 2003, which primarily added small cities of less than 100,000 persons, other large property owners such as school districts, and construction sites of 1 acre or more to the NPDES permitting requirements. - Richard Haimann
 * Hi Richard. Do you have credible sources that you can provide as references to your claim? Could you also be a bit more specific to what you're commenting about and what changes/alterations you are seeking to make? Thanks. Cameronhassibi (talk) 00:00, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I've already made those corrections. Haimann's comment dates back to 2005.(!) Some of the material on that topic was moved to, or was already covered by, more specific articles, such as United States regulation of point source water pollution and Clean Water Act. References are provided in those other articles. Moreau1 (talk) 01:08, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

article title should be stormwater
more commonly in the technical literature, stormwater is one word not two. obviously there should be a redirect from storm water. Anlace 20:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I disagree. There is definitely a mix of both the one-word and the two-word variations. For example, the City of San Diego uses the two-word version . I believe that "storm water" should be two words rather than just one. Cameronhassibi (talk) 23:09, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Regulation in United States
I added sub-sections for Federal and State & local requirements. This is a rapidly evolving topic as more states are issuing regulations & publications, as well as municipalities (MS4s). The deleted statement, "Many States, ... have created their own regulatory agencies to act as an intermediary between the EPA and the municipalities and industries." is a bit confusing, as the authorized NPDES states (currently 45) carry out the federal CWA requirements directly, not as an intermediary between EPA & regulated facilities. Moreau1 (talk) 07:18, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I dont understand why details of Federal and state law should be included. This topic isnt specific to US.142.244.5.206 (talk) 20:56, 5 February 2016 (UTC)


 * There are now more stormwater-related articles, and country-specific articles, than there were back in 2007 (when I wrote that stuff) and there are more appropriate places to put this material. I will move it to United States regulation of point source water pollution. Moreau1 (talk) 00:19, 7 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I didn't agree with moving the entire piece (without even leaving a link to the other page!). So I have put some content back in and provided a link to the other page. Do you agree? I think it could be useful to mention regulations in other countries, too, and link to relevant other pages if they exist. EvMsmile (talk) 12:25, 21 February 2016 (UTC)


 * That's OK, but in this shortened version, a bit more explanation of the US program is needed--"NPDES" is not explained. The permit program needs to be described, at least briefly; that could be added to the "Federal requirements" paragraph. The current text doesn't explain that the 1987 CWA amendments require stormwater dischargers to obtain permits. This is a major point of the law. Hopefully an explanation can be written that doesn't end up with a reinsertion of all of the previous text. (NPDES, as a separate topic, does not yet have its own article.) Moreau1 (talk) 17:31, 21 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Or perhaps in this case it might be better to shorten it even further so that it really just is a teaser to point people to the other article? Unforunately, I know nothing about the US program, so would not be in a good position to add more content back in. EvMsmile (talk) 01:37, 22 February 2016 (UTC)


 * If you just restore the second paragraph that was in the "Federal requirements" section ("Under the CWA, point source discharges..."} that should take care of it. I will look into simplifying the "State and local" section. Moreau1 (talk) 03:51, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

I can't remember anymore where to find that second paragraph. Could you please do it yourself? Thanks a lot. EvMsmile (talk) 01:54, 18 March 2016 (UTC)


 * No problem, already done (27 February). Moreau1 (talk) 03:23, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Erosion and Sediment Controls
I added a link to the erosion control article. We also need an article for sediment control (silt fences, etc.) that we can link to. Moreau1 (talk) 07:18, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I added a sediment control article on 12 July 2008. Moreau1 (talk) 03:07, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Title: Water, Subject: Filth
I came to this page to learn about the electrical and chemical properties of water, and instead I read about city filth, bureaucratic mumbo-jumbo, and similar mind-numbing topics. There is not a single article about actual water on this whole site! -- Anonymous — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.206.161.94 (talk) 12:26, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The article you're looking for does indeed exist. It's called water. Moreau1 (talk) 14:57, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

History of anthropogenic alterations in storm water
I believe that the history of storm water is a bit too short and awkward. The article begins discussion during the Bronze Age, references an ancient storm water conveyance system, and then comes to an abrupt end. I think there should be more of an in-depth history portion to the article--one that is primarily focused on the boom of the Industrial Revolution. I'm arbitrary choosing this time period due to the increase in industrial/commercial pollution associated with toxic runoff in storm water systems, and because of the associated growth of cities (and therefore impervious surfaces). Perhaps a brief discussion on the Industrial Revolution with a transition into the post WWII boom of both population and city space would be appropriate. Basically, I'm envisioning a History section which connects rapid socioeconomic growth within the last 100 or so years with increases in issues with storm water (be it conveyance and/or non-point source pollution). Cameronhassibi (talk) 23:57, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Sounds good, please proceed! I recommend you take a look at related articles such as urbanization, urban design, and land development. These articles may have some useful concepts and references. Moreau1 (talk) 00:53, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131004213929/http://www.iaqscience.lbl.gov/dampness-risks-house.html to http://www.iaqscience.lbl.gov/dampness-risks-house.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080517003931/http://cfpub.epa.gov/npdes/home.cfm?program_id=6 to http://cfpub.epa.gov/npdes/home.cfm?program_id=6

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External links modified (January 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Stormwater. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20170302010119/http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/pstoxics/index.html to http://www.ecy.wa.gov/Programs/wq/pstoxics/index.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120402134232/http://www.ecy.wa.gov/pubs/0510029.pdf to http://www.ecy.wa.gov/pubs/0510029.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160207105542/http://www.mde.state.md.us/programs/Water/StormwaterManagementProgram/MarylandStormwaterDesignManual/Pages/programs/waterprograms/sedimentandstormwater/stormwater_design/index.aspx to http://www.mde.state.md.us/programs/Water/StormwaterManagementProgram/MarylandStormwaterDesignManual/Pages/programs/waterprograms/sedimentandstormwater/stormwater_design/index.aspx

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Stormwater Harvesting
In the intro stormwater harvesting is mentioned here: "Stormwater harvesting techniques and purification could potentially make some urban environments self-sustaining in terms of water." However no further examples or definitions of such harvesting methods are given. While I understand that Wikipedia is not meant to be a instruction guide or how-to page, I do think that such material and content would be very useful here. I am also working on the rainwater harvesting wikiversity projects, and one theme I am sensing here, is a lack of cohesion and consistent organization when it comes to differentiating between stormwater harvesting and rainwater harvesting (at least on the wikiversity page).

So basically I am asking two things here, one; if anyone has ideas for a new stormwater harvesting section that would be great and two; if clarification or explanation of the nuance between rainwater and stormwater harvesting could be given, I think that could help clear things up not only for users on wikipedia, but also users from wikiversity, which has redirects to this page and the rainwater harvesting page.

Thoughts?--Ivangiesen (talk) 14:32, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi there, I don't really think that "stormwater harvesting" exists. Stormwater is usually returned to a local water body and then treated at a water treatment plant for municipal use. Otherwise there are opportunities for groundwater recharge through integrated water management. Treating urban stormwater for use would likely take too much energy for simple at-home application. I think including this could be misleading.
 * TLDR; "Stormwater harvesting" is really just a misleading way to talk about the integration between the urban and natural water cycle, in my opinion
 * EcoWarrior22 (talk) 17:38, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree with your point on the term "stormwater harvesting." There is an existing Stormwater harvesting article, but it cites very few sources, which are old. That article needs to be tagged for insufficient refs; maybe deletion. The term appears to be in rather limited use. There are other terms, apparently in much wider use, such as green infrastructure. There is some discussion of techniques for mitigating the impacts of excess (& polluted) stormwater in the urban runoff and surface runoff articles; these articles could be expanded.
 * Regarding treatment: most stormwater is not treated. Most runoff just empties into local surface waters. Those waters which are flowing (i.e. not swamps, lakes, etc.) and not intermittent, typically drain to an ocean, unless there is a man-made diversion downstream, such as a dam or a simple municipal drinking water intake. In those instances the city or region will treat some of that runoff volume for local use. Moreau1 (talk) 20:49, 19 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Agreed, most storm water is not treated. It is returned to local surface waters. My mentioning of treatment was confusing, but I was trying to point out that stormwater is only treated after it has been diluted in surface waters and is going to be used by some municipality. Thanks. EcoWarrior22 (talk) 01:19, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Stormwater Chemistry
Hello,

I have been assigned this wiki page to update as a class project. As the class is "Environmental Aqueous Geochemistry", I will be focusing on the geochemical attributes of stormwater runoff, implications of these attributes on downstream ecosystem processes, and impacts of integrated stormwater management practices on stormwater chemistry.

While this will be my main focus on the article, I will also make some small updates such as 1) rounding out the history section of the article, 2) minor adjustments to the content outline, and 3) updating the lead to include newly added information and improve readability.

These updates should be finished by mid December 2020.

EcoWarrior22 (talk) 17:28, 19 October 2020 (UTC) EcoWarrior 22; 19 Oct 2020 13:30 EST