Talk:Story arc

Anime?
Has there been anything published that explains why anime is more likely to have story arcs than Western animation and live action shows? --NE2 06:11, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Apparently someone who helped write this article loves Naruto. You would think something like One Piece which is MUCH longer than Naruto would be made an example of. --71.232.134.189 22:50, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, if speaking of story arcs in anime, I'm sad, that Meitantei Conan isn't mentioned. First, becauise to my knowledge it is the longest running manga/anime with one long running story arc, namely Kudo Shinichi's and his allies battle against the Black Organization (the last one actually makes up a whole mini-series from file 588 to file 609) and secondly for it subplots involving the character develoment. Shinichi1977 11:24, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic should be removed from this section, because it's a cartoon, not anime or maybe, it should be used as an example to show that U.S. cartoons hardly use story arcs, compared to anime in Japan. Damatte (talk) 18:43, 15 May 2014 (UTC)


 * How does "anime" differ from "Japanese animation/cartoon"? Anime is a sub-category of animation/cartoon. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime, "The word anime is the Japanese term for animation, which means all forms of animated media." Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 19:46, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Story arc usage in North American TV series
Why is this restricted to North American TV series? 81.132.55.17 17:20, 23 January 2007 (UTC) Elmo


 * I think because NA is the most well known for using the term. Britain uses a different term for this, I think. Check out Serial. I guess it's just that American TV producers are most known for using the phrase to describe this tactic. But I'm not sure on that. 24.3.214.213 10:42, 26 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It is also strange that two great series were omitted: WiseGuy and Murder One. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jjjuke (talk • contribs) 20:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh yes, let's be concerned about which of our favorite shows are not mentioned rather than how the ones we do mention illustrate and define the subject of the article. Two paragraphs are wasted on name-dropping two sci-fi and four anime series without any examples as to why they apply. The paragraphs on I Love Lucy and The Fugitive are good examples of what is needed in this article. --OGRastamon (talk) 00:04, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


 * set up


 * incititing incident


 * forming alliances


 * rising action


 * apperent defeat


 * what is the final confrontation


 * falling action


 * resolution —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.175.215.136 (talk) 15:03, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I am reviewing the article now, and I don't see any citation about Wiseguy coining it. I agree, the concept has been going on a long time. Many writing coaches now use it. Can we get to the bottom of it? I found this on a review of Wiseguy: "Wiseguy's much vaunted story arc construction wasn't at all new to television in '87 (CBS's biggest hit of the 1980s was extended story arc construction at its most broad and melodramatic: Dallas), while the plotting has a shorthand feel to it that smacks of still-rigidly controlled formatting indicative of 80s network offerings." DVDTalk.com/Wiseguy-the-complete-first-season/ Homschlrmom 01:36, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I am searching extensively for the wiseguy coining but am only finding sites such as https://www.definitions.net/definition/story%20arc that either repeat or are a basis for this article. In fact there are several site that seem to pull from this page or are a basis of this section without citing either one for the other as a source. Loriruff2000 (talk) 19:18, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Sitcoms
There were many sitcom story arcs in the 1950's and 1960's. As noted there were story arcs in I Love Lucy. There were also story arcs in My Three Sons, and Rocky and Bullwinkle. I think there were story arcs in Felix the Cat and Dobie Gillis, though perhaps these would be classified as "two part episodes". Sitcoms use fewer story arcs than dramas (for the same reason sitcoms are shorter than dramas), but I don't think they are as rare as the article implies. Even in drama, story arcs were not common in this era.  Randall Bart    Talk   01:35, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * A story arc isn't just an extended/drawn-out story -- a character's change over time is central to the arc. You've missed one of the most-obvious examples -- Niles Crane's relationship with Daphne Moon. It starts from the first or second episode, and runs about eight years. It ends with Niles finally standing up to Mel Karnofsky and publicly telling her off. It takes a long time, but we see Niles' gradual transition to self-confidence. Frasier Crane has chronic problems with girlfriends, but his failures (which are principally his own fault, due to lack of self-awareness) continue right up to the end. Frasier doesn't change, so this continuing story element isn't really an arc.
 * Change is an important part of storytelling. Characters who don't change aren't very interesting. The struggle to achieve the "I want" that drives most stories usually results in some change to the struggling character.
 * The reason story arcs were uncommon until the late '70s (or thereabouts), was the fact that syndication (which was usually the way a TV series turned a profit for its producer) was handled by shipping films and tapes from one TV station to another, thus scrambling the episodes' order. Gene Roddenberry specifically said that he had considered long story lines (if not necessarily arcs) for Star Trek, but dropped the idea because of the story-telling problems introduced by syndication. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 13:02, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Story arc vs story
I think that this page fails to say what makes a story arc distinct from a story. Moreover, it is clear that some of the examples given - a 3 act play, for example - are really just "stories". The "arc" part in that context is just a redundant appendage. To my mind, a story arc is more like an overarching plot that develops over the top of a number of otherwise distinct stories. The stories within the arc will probably themselves follow story-like conventions (e.g. 3 acts, redemption/tragedy/whatever), but together they also form a larger story. Anyone agree/disagree?

I also agree with the comment above, that to say "The purpose of a story arc is to move a character or a situation from one state to another — in other words, to effect change" is no more true of a story arc than it is of a story. I don't think it is a defining feature of a story arc at all, though it may be a common one. Westmorlandia (talk) 13:45, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

should be entirely reworked
When I initially opened the article, my immediate impression was that story arc is an old-fashion storytelling convention, fallen on hard times until overhauled by modern comic, particularly manga. Intended or not, I don't see that as correct.

First: Rather than relying on some combination of original research and synthesis, a credible source should be found to define "story arc" and explain it briefly.

The term episodic makes a couple of appearances, but is never explained or defined. Pointing to Episode is useless as episodic never appears in that article.

Back in the early '80s when superhero stuff was starting to become cool, people seemed to use "episodic" to mean a comic or TV program that existed in a "permanent now" where information gleaned (or life-lessons learned) in one show/issue would never be mentioned again. For instance, ST:TNG would use point-to-point transport within the Enterprise, but the entire crew would forget this capability a few shows later when it would have solved the entire crisis-of-the-week before the opening credits. Another: they'd forget that injured people could be beamed directly to Sick Bay, and have to wheel them out of the transporter room on a gurney.

I was never comfortable with that usage, moderately certain that "episodic" meant taking a long work (a novel, say) and dividing it up for serial publishing, either in a periodical or in smaller format. My assumption is that it was instead being used to convey "a story that's self-contained in a single episode."

Lacking a series arc, a TV program or comic is much easier for outside writers and directors/artists to swing by for a one-off visit, as they are not bound to hew close to the series bible. An overall arc means that new readers/viewers need to somehow get up to speed, otherwise they've got no clue about the backstory and therefore why an individual will/won't take certain actions, why "everyone stays away from the old sawmill," etc. (TV inherited the "Last week on" and "Next week on" bookends from adventure serials, which actually cheat regular consumers from surprise by pointing out what will become important in the installment.)

I don't feel it's made clear enough here that there might be a character arc that forms (largely or even entirely) the series backbone. There was really not much arc in Star Trek: Enterprise except for the evolution of Trip Tucker from a self-destructive drunk to a highly regarded engineer (though the last episode is entirely out of place).

One thought: a running gag is not an arc. When King of the Hill was winding down, I suddenly realized that it was peppered with arcs, largest being Dale Gribble. What began as a recurring gag (Nancy Gribble's long-running affair) evolved into a poignant arc as Dale became a well-rounded character. In like manner, an arc that's neglected can quickly become just a gag. Weeb Dingle (talk) 17:58, 30 June 2019 (UTC)


 * I could not find any references to "story arc" in any of my creative writing books or any of our local library reference works. The few sources cited in this article do not appear to be reliable. Since the term does not seem to be common, I think this article should be deleted.—Anita5192 (talk) 06:53, 2 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Oh, certainly: the term "story arc" was new to me in the '90s when I read a film-writing text, though I'd been writing (fiction and journalism) more than a decade.


 * I don't know about outright deletion, but it certainly needs MUCH better citations to make it more than just an inflated dictionary entry. Weeb Dingle (talk) 02:34, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree... The terms "Story Arc", "Narrative Arc", and even "Character Arc" have become better known to describe how to build a good story as well as why a good story is a good story. Whether or not the term is known to you, it is relevant to great fiction and even good fiction and allows people who have good story ideas to write good stories rather than a glob.
 * A friend of mine is a developmental editor who takes many of her authors through the story arc principals to help them turn their good stories into great fiction.
 * I even seen people use the character arc principles, which mirror the story arc, to make a story great because now the characters have depth.
 * A good overhaul and fact check may be called for but I agree this does NOT need to be deleted. There are popular books on the topic. There should surely then be a wikipage on it as well. Loriruff2000 (talk) 20:32, 15 March 2022 (UTC)


 * If you know of popular books on the topic of story arc, then please cite the article.—Anita5192 (talk) 21:40, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Hero's journey
I agree with the talk on the article about the "hero's journey" the most. Homschlrmom (talk) 01:39, 3 March 2022 (UTC)