Talk:Stout/Archive 1

is there one
Textbot 00:21, 23 December 2006 (UTC) Userbox for "stout drinker" ..is there one ? Can anyone make one ? Grateful any pointers...

Examples
There are way too many examples... it would probably be better to list one of each style, along with a link to BeerAdvocate or something. A huge list is not only too much information, but also an invitation to add more. RobLinwood 01:30, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * So I went ahead and removed most of the examples... I tried to leave about one well-known example for each type. Might be best to list examples under the type subheadings instead.  RobLinwood 13:21, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Textbot 00:21, 23 December 2006 (UTC) I gotta say, I disagree with the sentiment below. Indeed I feel agrieved that my "Stouts around the World" idea/contribution was removed some time back. In Australia, where I live, Stouts are only a tiny proportion of the market and are often overlooked in the conventional literature, including web sites such as the one mentioned...if you don't find out about them on Wikipedia, you may not find them at all !
 * Hi, please learn how to respond and sign your comments properly. Please do not respond on top of an original comment.  I have edited this page to place your comment under the one you are responding to.  In responds to your concern, Australian stouts do not comprise a distinct genre of stout that e.g. Irish or Russian stouts do.  Also, please note that Wikipedia is not a collection of lists.  If you would like to have an exhaustive listing of Australian stouts, then may I reccomend either contributing to one of the many beer sites currently in existence, or starting your own web site devoted to the topic?  Wikipedia is not the place for such a listing.  Again, please review the site policies and procedures.  A perusal of the editing help might also be of use for the issues you mentioned on my talk page.  Please don't take this as personal criticism; my intent is to help make WP the best source of information there is.  Thanks, rob. RobLinwood 04:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Contradiction in Guinness
At the top of the Guinness article, it says that "...the first use of the word stout in relation to beer was in a letter in the Egerton Manuscript dated 1677..." which is preceded by a very specific rebuttal of the common misconception that Guinness originated the stout style of beer. Can someone cite either of these?

Murphys should not redirect to stout if it is linked in stout.

---

I changed some comments about milk stout to point out that lactose is milk sugar. An earlier comment that I left in is that lactose is a by-product of the cheese making process, but I'm not sure that makes sense. In most cheese making, the milk is first curdled by bacteria that change the lactose into lactic acid (then rennet is added to further the curding), so I wouldn't expect cheese making to be the greatest source for lactose. There's probably a better way to derive lactose from milk like curdling it with some other acid source and then skimming off the curds and evaporating it. Anybody? --Chinasaur 18:24, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Milk Stout
The article says that milk stout isn't sold in Britain because of labeling laws, but my local, the Barley Mow, sells bottles of milk stout, brewed by a small local brewer.

Porter & Stout
A porter is not a variation of stout but visa versa in modern terminology.


 * I had thought they were separate varieties altogether. Regardless, porter should probably not be mentioned in the first sentence, which gives the impression that they are either the same thing, or one is a type of the other. RobLinwood 01:13, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I am being bold and rewriting it. Cheers, RobLinwood 01:16, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

The current paragraph is a little conflicted:

''Porter is an alternative name for stout. It was originally used in the 18th century. Historically, culturally and technically there are no differences between stout and porter, though there has been a tendency for breweries to differentiate the strengths of their dark beers with the words "extra", "double" and "stout". So the term "stout" was used to indicate a stronger porter than other porters issued by an individual brewery — though one brewery's porter could easily be stronger than a neighbouring brewery's stout. Though not consistent, this is the usage that has most commonly been employed.''

Either porter - as the first statement claims - was another word for stout, or stout was an adjective used to describe a certain type of porter, i.e. a stronger one. This distinction is still a distinction if it was used imprecisely (if "one brewery's porter could easily be stronger than a neighbouring brewery's stout" as the article nicely puts it). Put another way: if they really were interchangeable then one and the same breweries standard porter would be the same as there stout porter (and indeed a stout porter would mean a porter porter!). Maybe we could say there's only a 'weak' or 'imprecise' distinction between porter and stout? Dast 00:22, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Merge Oatmeal Stout
Oatmeal Stout is a minor variation of stout. It has a short history. It is better placed in the general article on stout so people can see it in context. I have expanded the section on Oatmeal stout as far as it would be reasonable to go without becoming tedious. I suggest that Oatmeal Stout is redirected to the main Stout article. SilkTork 01:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Support. If the stout article get too long, it can be split out again. &mdash; goethean &#2384; 01:44, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge. I agree. Other types of stout (eg, chocolate or Russian imperial) do not have separate articles, and really do not merit them. RobLinwood 01:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I take that back, there is an Imperial stout article. It should be merged in as well. So still Merge. RobLinwood 01:19, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Merge Imperial Stout
The main content of the Imperial stout page is only a single paragraph plus an infobox. People looking for information would be better served on a single article with an overview and examples for each style, rather than a separate article for each. There isn't much danger of this article becoming too long, and much of the content between this article and the individual style articles is redundant. RobLinwood 01:23, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I copied and pasted the content from the IS article, however I am reluctant to remove it entirely since it features a number of examples, and those have been removed from this article. RobLinwood 04:39, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd have to second the suggestion of maintaining Imperial Stout as a stand-alone article. It's truly a vastly different beer than a typical stout, as anyone familiar with both can attest. RJSampson

I support RJSampson's assessment. Imperial Stout is vastly different from other Stout substyles interms of flavor profile, original gravity, history, etc. It is at least as distinct from "Stout" as IPA's are distinct from "Pale Ale".
 * Fair enough... I will remove the merge tag on both articles. Though I will dispute that I am not "familiar" with both :)  Cheers.  RobLinwood 01:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, just checking in now, and it looks like this has been done... consider this topic closed them, if you haven't already :) Defixio 04:31, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Baltic porter
I have brought in Baltic porter. Attached here is a list of examples from the original article. The most notable of these examples may be worked into the Baltic porter section with explanations of why they are notable:

Examples

 * Aldaris Porteris from Alus Daritava Aldaris (Baltic Beverages Holdings) in Riga, Latvia
 * Baltika Porter from Pivzavod Baltika (Baltic Beverages Holding) in Saint Petersburg, Russia
 * D. Carnegie & Co. Stark Porter from Carlsberg Sverige (Pripps Bryggerier) in Göteborg, Sweden
 * Dojlidy Polski from Browar Dojlidy S.A. in Białystok, Poland
 * Koff Porter from Sinebrychoff in Kerava, Finland
 * Kozlak Porter (no longer in production), Browar Wielkopolski w Krotoszynie (defunct) in Krotoszyn, Poland
 * Limfjords-Porter from Thisted Bryghus in Thisted, Denmark
 * Okocim Porter from Okocim Brewery. A Polish porter brewed only for the United States and Canada.
 * Saku Porter from Saku in Harjumaa, Estonia
 * Stepan Razin Porter from Stepan Razin Brewery, Saint Petersburg, Russia
 * Utenos Porteris from Utenos alus in Utena, Lithuania
 * Żywiec Porter from Żywiec in Cieszyn, Poland

SilkTork 09:44, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Imperial stout examples
As with Baltic porter, here are a hoard of brands from which a few notable examples, with explanations, may be included in the relevant section.

United Kingdom

 * Courage Imperial Russian Stout, the archetype. Production ceased in 1993
 * Harveys A. Le Coq Imperial Extra Double Stout
 * Samuel Smith's Imperial Stout

Japan

 * Imperial Chocolate Stout

Denmark

 * Wiibroe Imperial Stout
 * Wintercoat Cockney Imperial Stout

Norway

 * Nøgne Ø Imperial Stout
 * Oslo Mikrobryggeri Imperial Stout

Sweden

 * Nils Oscar Imperial Stout
 * Slottskällans Imperial Stout

Canada

 * Bièropholie Stout Impériale
 * Dieu Du Ciel La Grande Noirceur

Netherlands

 * SNAB Czaar Peter
 * Klein Duimpje Huisbrouwerij Russian Imperial Stout

United States

 * AleSmith Speedway Stout
 * Avery The Czar Imperial Stout
 * Bell's Expedition Stout
 * Brooklyn Brewery Black Chocolate Stout
 * Dogfish Head Worldwide Stout
 * Great Divide Yeti Imperial Stout
 * Great Lakes Blackout Stout
 * Magic Hat Thumbsucker
 * North Coast Old Rasputin Russian Imperial Stout
 * Rogue Imperial Stout
 * Stone Imperial Russian Stout
 * Three Floyds Dark Lord Russian Imperial Stout
 * Victory Storm King Imperial Stout
 * Weyerbacher Old Heathen

Austria

 * 1516 Brewing Company Russian Imperial Stout

SilkTork 10:30, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

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Ale?
Before, I was sure that stout was a variety of lager, but when I brought that up relating to a mistake on the Beer talkpage, at least two people there said stout was ale. Well, is it?--Metalhead94 (talk) 10:04, 18 October 2008 (UTC)