Talk:Stow of Wedale

Copyvio
Previous article was copyvio, started work on a new article at Stow, Scotland/Temp -- Hitchhiker89 19:55, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Temp moved to main article. RedWolf 02:55, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Requested move
This article has been renamed from Stow, Scottish Borders to Stow of Wedale as the result of a move request. - unopposed move. Keith D (talk) 23:16, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Stow, Scottish Borders → Stow of Wedale — As someone who encounters this place a lot in history books, I only ever come across it as Stow of Wedale, though I'm sure locals probably just call it Stow. Current name is a slightly clumsy way to disambiguate a place that doesn't need disambiguating, as there is only one Stow of Wedale. —Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 11:22, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Support as nom. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 11:23, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Support. Natural disambiguation should take precedence, unless perhaps in the cases where we disambiguate pre-emptively (not the case here). A redirect from Stow with the historic shire (which one is it, btw?) would be helpful. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:29, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Support. This says the County of Edinburgh and the County of Selkirk for the parish, with the village in Edinburgh, so Stow, Edinburghshire (ha, ha) and Stow, Midlothian. Re. the etymology, I think there's a discussion in one of Barrow's books. I'll see if I can find it. Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:49, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * And one of the external links says Stow was moved to Selkirkshire in 1972. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:21, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Support - it is very sensible to favour 'natural disambiguation', as a commentator above puts it. Moreover, the technical and correct name of a settlement should only be ignored where common usage is very much in favour.--Breadandcheese (talk) 17:22, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

Dahl
I see that wiche "shrine" + dahl is from the first website cited. I find this very doubtful. Wiche, wicca has always had the force of modern English witch, including white witch. Dahl is a form of the common Germanic stem which occurs, as far as I can tell, only in some Modern Swedish (and Mod. Norwegian) surnames; the OED cites the Sw. form as dal with no h; it is a doubtful form for explaining Scots. Under these circumstances, I would prefer not to include this etymology - or indeed either, "vale of woe" sounds like a folk-etymology. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:41, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I inserted a plausible etymology; the wiche+dahl story was utter nonsense, since neither word exists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.113.37.9 (talk) 10:06, 4 March 2014 (UTC)


 * No luck with an etymology, it was Stow that was discussed, not Wedale. I believe that Vale of Woe is a back-formation from the medieval Latin vallis dolorosa, but that's no more authoritative that varia capella for Falkirk. "Interpreted as Vale of Woe in the middle ages" would be about right. I can find no discussion of Wedale in Nicolaisen, Scottish Place-names, or Watson, Celtic Place-Names, beyond the statement that it's English in Watson, p. 148. Angus McLellan (Talk) 13:28, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Watson wouldn't discuss it because it is English. David Ross' book Scottish Place-Names says Stow just means place, and if we've got dale then all you need is the river, and it's not usual to expect the etymology of a river name to be transparent, unless its called Esk or something easy like that. But that might not be the explanation, as no river is called "We"; according to Watson Wedale merely lies at the mouth of Gala and Tweed. Maybe "Wedale" is a corruption of "Galadale", i dunno. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 13:59, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Other possible solution I can think of; some think that Galadale is the area referred to in Welsh as Gwen Ystrath; so if the English were translating it, the "t" in Hwit dæl could have been assimilated. This may be circular if it turns out the arguments for identifying it with Gwen Ystrath are that it means "White dale", but nevertheless Hwit dæl is still possible. So you might have as an etymlogy "Place of the White Valley". Regards, Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 14:11, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Brian Webster Schools Rugby 1985
Would like to know if anyone still has copies of the reports on the schools double of Scottish cup and Border cup,1985 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.30.231.83 (talk) 10:31, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Brian Webster Schools Rugby 1985
Would like to know if anyone still has copies of the reports on the schools double of Scottish cup and Border cup,1985 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Reminess (talk • contribs) 10:38, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Marian apparitions
I believe this town was the site of Marian apparitions in the Middle Ages - nothing on this topic appears in the article. The fact it used to be a pilgrimage site is significant.-MacRùsgail (talk) 16:38, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Is /ˈstaʊ/, rhyming with "cow", really the correct pronunciation? Every other Stow(e) in Britain is pronounced like the verb "stow". Zacwill (talk) 08:49, 28 October 2022 (UTC)


 * it is definitely pronounced to rhyme with "cow". Every Borderer will tell you so 148.252.132.113 (talk) 03:06, 4 September 2023 (UTC)


 * There are other places in Britain called Stow (for example, in Gloucestershire and Lincolnshire), and these rhyme with "slow". But the one in the Borders definitely rhymes with "cow". You'll never hear it pronounced any other way - at least, not by the locals. Mike Marchmont (talk) 16:32, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Last place speaking Cumbric/ Brittonic?
Reference please? no reference here: "A mile or so north of Stow lies the clachan of Torquhan, likely in the 13th century to have been one of the last places where the Brittonic language Cumbric was finally replaced by English". "Likely" reads as a weasel word- not easy to pin down.
 * I have added a "citation needed" template here. Mike Marchmont (talk) 09:02, 8 January 2024 (UTC)