Talk:Strathnaver

Questions
Thanks to Le Deluge for putting my stuff into Wikipedia style (it was my first attempt at editing a page). Two questions:

1. What is evidence for dating Grummore Broch to "time of Christ" and other brochs to 9th to 12th centuries? I thought brochs were now thought to precede and have little to do with Vikings; and

2. Why were links to publications that I inserted removed? This is a request for education not a complaint ;-)

Navervisitor (talk) 18:15, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No worries, it needed doing - one of my mini-projects is to sort out the rivers of Sutherland, they're in rough shape. On your questions - I've ref'd Grummore (unfortunately not a paper directly dating it, but better than nothing) - and umm, you're right on the others, although it gets a bit complicated up in the north as some do seem to have been reactivated against the Vikings. I probably just saw it somewhere in one of the Victorian references or (more likely) a book blindly repeating the Victorian ideas, and later wrote it down without thinking particularly hard.  Hopefully someone can find a modern reference dating some of the other ones. On 2) - your refs needed converting to &lt;ref> style, reading WP:REFB and then CITE will explain the mechanics. After the conversion, I used the same refs earlier in the article so moved them up there, meaning to rewrite the "Tourism"  bit and then got a phone call or something so ended up submitting the article with the Tourism bit as was, without adding back in the &lt;ref /> tags. Cockup rather than conspiracy then. :-) Sorry. The Tourism bit still needs rewriting, it's getting a bit close to infringing WP:NOTTRAVEL but that's always an issue with those kinds of sections.  I left filling out the infobox as an exercise for the reader, Infobox River tells you what is needed. :-) And more pics would always be welcome, not having any of the loch is an obvious omission. Le Deluge (talk) 22:42, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified (January 2018)
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"Most notorious" as Weasel words.
The use of "most notorious" in : whilst fitting with the popular view of the Highland Clearances, does not really represent the thinking of most historians who have studied the subject. Furthermore, the usage is probably an example of WP:WEASEL.

To analyse this in detail:

(1) The cited source to support this is Prebble (The Highland Clearances, publ Martin Secker and Warburg Ltd., 1963). (a) Prebble uses the word "notorious" only once in the entire book, and does not apply it to any of the clearances in Sutherland, including Strathnaver. He does not use the phrase "most notorious" anywhere. (b) Prebble is probably not a source that meets the standards of WP:HISTRS. The author is not a historian, but is a journalist; whilst his work has had an influence on the historiography of the subject, this is more by stimulating proper academic research; Prebble tends not to be cited by academic historians - the only notable exception is Prof James Hunter, but even there the citations are not of reasoned arguments or historical analysis, but of quotations dug up by Prebble from other readily accessible sources (e.g. Gloomy Memories by Donald Macleod)

(2) (a) There are many worse events in the whole story of the Highland Clearances. For instance, look at where James Hunter (the historian who probably sides most strongly against the evicting landlords) gives examples of worse clearance events than Sutherland. (b) Eric Richards states, when comparing the resettlement activity of the Sutherland estate to the simple evictions made by other proprietors: "In this sense the Sutherland estate was, despite its reputation, in strong and positive contrast to most other clearing proprietors." (Richards, Eric (2000). The Highland Clearances People, Landlords and Rural Turmoil (2013 ed.). Edinburgh: Birlinn Limited. ISBN 978-1-78027-165-1 chapter 11, section III The Last of the Sutherland Clearances. The 1820 Clearances )

(3) What is notable about the clearances in Strathnaver is the trial of Patrick Sellar that arose from (a) the burning of Badinloskin (the house occupied by William Chisholm) on 13 June 1814, coupled with (b) the enmity between Patrick Sellar, the Sutherland Estate factor, and Robert McKid, the Sheriff-substitute in the county, which arose when Sellar (carrying out his estate duties) caught McKid poaching. Whilst Sellar uncharacteristically let the matter drop, McKid sought vengence for threatening his legal career with such a charge. The trial, at which Sellar was acquitted, was a key moment in the history of the clearances.

Based on the above, some changes need to be made to the article. I suggest: deletion of the words "most notorious" and some mention of the Trial of Patrick Sellar. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 23:07, 9 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Suggested change: The statement" By the middle of the 17th century, their attempts to compete with the more powerful sutherlands meant the MacKays were under severe financial strain."
 * Actually, per Book of Mackay Pg 114 In 1588 Huistean Du and Gordons of Sutherland resolved their differences. "but such was the anxiety of Sutherland to secure the alliance of Mackay, that he offered to cancel the dues and to give him the hand of lady Jane Gordon, his eldest daughter in marriage on condition that Mackay acknowledged his superiority. Mackay agreed and married Lady Jane in December 1589...". Their financial troubles were not related to this. 204.236.60.137 (talk) 17:33, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Possible source for museum in the area
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgl0x83xe0zo

©Geni (talk) 02:17, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Key date missing?
Our article at Sutherland says Strathnaver was incorporated into the former in 1601 (even if this present article says "the Sutherlands ... purchased the last of their [MacKay] Scottish estates from Lord Reay in 1829".  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  16:47, 3 June 2024 (UTC)