Talk:Street dogs in Moscow

Malchik
Proposition to remove the "Malchick" incident part or reduce it to a link to its own article for lack scientific value. P.S. This is an encyclopedia, not animal rights propaganda board. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.196.194.154 (talk) 23:48, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The section on Malchik is included because he was/is an internationally-known example of the article's subject. As for its "lack of scientific value", nothing in the (small) paragraph is anything which can't be found in the Malchik main article.  So if you have a problem with the "scientific" veracity of the Malchik topic, then you should be raising your issue at its main article.  Until that article is deleted by majority consensus, my vote is that is stays here.  And apparently I'm not the only one who supports its inclusion, since you've already been reverted.  If you do decide to raise your issue at Malchik's main article, I suggest you provide your definitions of what supposedly constitute "scientific value" and "animal rights propoganda" there.Adrigon (talk) 07:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * +1 vote, because the incident is pretty much louder than an act of a "doghunter" anti-dog radical: Malchik aka The Boy used to be a "street dog" fed by multiply shopkeepers (Russian underground has lots of kiosks for food and small items) and there was a brawl. There is a portion of historical value: "Malchik" moument and his story is a good memento to "лихие 90-е" era of Russian decade dance of decadence (say "wild 90's" which actually were from 1992 (USSR just fell) to 2002).
 * Also, Malchik's story is notable since he was both "metro" subway-living dog and guard dog at the same time.

Important questions
Obvious question not answered: WHY SO MANY of these dogs in Moscow?
 * 1) Why have we called them "stray" instead of "feral"?
 * 2) What's the distinction/overlap between this population and that of the article Free-ranging urban dog? Chrisrus (talk) 14:49, 26 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I think the trouble is beyond lack of monitoring many people blame here in Moscow. Russian stray/feral/free-ranging urban wildlife at all is relatively young "breed": Russians gave up USSR-era random exterminations, leading to appearing packs of dogs instead of single homeless ones only in 1992-1993.

Sincerely, 212.41.54.249 (talk) 04:01, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Real reason is, in many Russian cities, there is a werid law that allows existence of so-called «опекуны бездомных животных» ("caretakers of homeless animals"). Therefore, Moscow is basically has no juridical basis to separate "feral" and "domestic" animals, as well as there is no good paperwork to separate "stray" and "owned". Therefore, de jure homeless dog may either live on construction site, or within factory territories, or, surprisingly, be a pet of a homeless man. 12:08, 20 February 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.215.105.1 (talk)

Move from "stray" to "feral" by Ivan
Ivan is right. If we want to be technically correct with these terms, many of these dogs are not technically "strays" because they were born outside of human husbandry and have never been husbanded, so they have no homes to have "strayed" from. The proper term for such dogs is "feral". However, if this is not true of all these dogs; if a significant percentage of them have strayed from their owners, or are just allowed to come and go as they please by their owners, then "feral" wouldn't cover all the dogs this article is talking about. Therefore, we should go one step further and move this article one more time to "Free-ranging dogs in Moscow". That would cover all such dogs regardless of whether they are stray, feral, or just uncontained. Chrisrus (talk) 17:26, 14 June 2012 (UTC)


 * If dogs live in a city they are by definition not a feral animal. Feral means free of human interaction or support, and since a city is a human construction any dogs in a city are not feral. We could rename it to Dogs in Moscow (currently a redir) to avoid splitting hairs but we would then have to expand it to include domesticated dogs. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 23:06, 23 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think there is anything about the word "feral" that implies they can't live in cities. See the articles/article sections feral dog, street dog, stray dog, and wild true dog.  Chrisrus (talk) 04:31, 24 January 2013 (UTC)


 * According to the Street dog article they are known in scientific literature as "free-ranging urban dogs" or "urban free-ranging dogs". Maybe we should call the article Street dogs in Moscow? -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 04:52, 24 January 2013 (UTC)


 * That's a good idea, justified by both WP:COMMONNAME and WP:PRECISION. Please do be WP:BOLD and move not only this article but also any others, such as Stray dogs in Bangkok. Chrisrus (talk) 17:10, 24 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree with Ivan: term "feral" is neat. In fact, there is a quite a situation in Moscow: there are almost none of "stray dogs". Instead, there are dogs, whose packs have lived generations without any owners, but who have food on daily basis thanks to local old people. (The "how on earth it's possible" part is simple: old lonely people usually live in small 200 sq. ft apartments.)

77.247.128.132 (talk) 21:16, 6 June 2015 (UTC) Yakov.

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