Talk:Street punk/Archive 1

DO NOT MERGE!
Well I think that it should not be merged because I understand difference between oi and streetpunk in the attitute. the article is generally very awful and someone should(!) replace it. Maybe ill take some chance. Yes-this is encyklopedia, not a fashion magazine. The basic difference for me is the angle. While skinheads look at the society with their pride, punks view it with desperation that makes them dig much deeper into the content. There is no room for either violence or drinking in the streetpunk songs while there is no place for anarchist or any ideology(reflective, not offensive) in the oi punkscene

I agree that the articles SHOULD NOT be merged. Regarding the difference between Oi! and Street punk, you may want to take a look here. There are some mistakes in the article, so I may edit it.

Yeah I agree there are lots of differences and articles SHOULD NOT BE MERGED,instead the differences of those two genres should be pointed out.


 * I also agree, these two subjects are very distinct and should absolutely not be merged. 149.43.x.x


 * This article definitely shouldn't be merged with Oi!. Maybe in the beginning Oi! music had a link to Streetpunk music, being that Oi! music was originally called "Streetpunk". However, during the 1980s all the way to today, Streetpunk became it's own distinct sound, as well as a Punk subculture faction. Oi! has always been more associated with Skinheads, Streetpunk is associated with Punks. They should not be merged at all.

StrEetPunk replied:
 * 'There is no room for either violence or drinking in the streetpunk songs while there is no place for anarchist or any ideology(reflective, not offensive) in the oi punkscene'. hey guys you can listen to both music. You can be StreetPunk and Oi! at the same time. I'm a 'StrEetPunk girl' and I'm listening to Oi! and AnarchoPunk and all the music I love to listening right? All Punks (includes oi!, streetpunk and all the others) and skins United to Fight!

There is no need to merge the two. Both still have obvious differences within the culture. Street punk is the tartan trousers, the self pierced ears/nostrils/septums etc, the public view of punk. Oi! fashion tends to be darker, with significant differences. a typical streetpunk hair style would be a mohawk or bihawk, with little or no other hair, possibly with die in some form (either bright colours in the actual hawks, or patterns in the short hair, leopard pattern is quite common on the side of the head among street punks). Oi! hairstyle is stereotypically big (2 foot+) liberty spikes, sometimes dyed, and if so, in two tones. black base with coloured tips is common in the Oi! culture here in the uk. Oi! is often seen as being dead, and while it is less popular then streetpunk, it still exists, and the myth often comes from people who dont know the difference between the two.

I don't think this article should be merged. Unless its already been said, Street Punk and Oi! are different because of their followings. Oi! is more popular with skinheads while Street Punk is more popular with mohawk punks. Musically they're different as well. Oi! draws influence from early rock like The Who - something lacking in Street Punk

Oi! and Street and different. They have similar roots but it's different music. A lot of bands play them both like the Dropkick Murphys, but it is different music. Oi punx are more skinhead styled: "Oi punx with their boots and braces, skinheads stompin on your faces"- Oi! Scouts. Street punx typically identify with stereotypical punk subculture (eg. mohawks, studs, plaid).

This merger does not please God...
Oi!= Cockney Rejects, Oi Polloi, Cock Sparrer, Sham 69, Oxymoron Street= Exploited, Swingin' Utters, Virus, Unseen, Lars Frederiksen and the Bastards

since when are lars and the bastards street punk or even punk at all? they are more like just regular rock


 * All those bands labelled as Oi!, have also been called streetpunk, and many of them would even refer to themselves as that. Exploited were on Oi! the Album, and were definitely labelled Oi! in the beginning.Spylab 19:07, 6 August 2006 (UTC)Spylab

Oi! is to street punk what peace punk is to crust.

Thats true It really shouldn't be merged at all it's like merging Captain Crunch and Raisen, They're both cereal but totally different cereal.208.98.137.60 17:25, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

MERGE!
It seems to me that this article should probably be merged with "Oi." most of it might well go under an "oi fashion" section. --Misfit

Streetpunk is another name for Oi! like it or not; although, the music and politics have changed over time. A couple of American record companies relabled Oi! music as "streetpunk" to downplay its problematic past. Without Oi! Streetpunk doesn't exist. These articles should be merged for clarification and catagorization purposes.


 * I agree. These so-called differences between streetpunk and Oi! seem very arbitrary, innacurate, biased, and USA-centric. It seems like people are just making things up on the spot. From the beginning, and continuing today, many bands have been described as -- and describe themselves as -- both Oi! and streetpunk. There have been Oi! bands with only punk members, and bands that call themselves streetpunk with mostly skinhead members. Musically, there was no distinct difference when the terms came about. On the original Oi! records, there were songs that were really fast and thrashy, and others that were slower and more chant-like. Politically, there have always been leftist and anarchist Oi! bands, and there are non-political and right-of-centre bands that call themselves streetpunk.Spylab 18:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)Spylab


 * This article is so undeveloped and lackluster, and its inability to account for the differences stems from an inability to document the differences and a lack of any sort of real research or the like into such things. I mean, you want substantial differences? There's hardly any content in this article at all. But that doesn't mean the two aren't distinct, and I'm not saying they aren't similar or even indistinguishable in some places, but there are still as of right now two articles. Until the merge goes through, if it does, it's absolutely ridiculous to let this article equate the two. If you feel so strongly about it, get the merge going. I couldn't care less if these things occupy one article or two, but it makes absolutely no sense to have an article on Oi! and then tell people in this article that this is actually Oi!. It's absurd and contrary to how a reference of any sort ought to work. I'm not going to change it back, because you seem to be particularly unconcerned with such an issue, but I would recommend working on the merge instead of creating an encyclopedic inconsistency.149.43.x.x 19:22, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm concerned about factual accuracy, not about inventing so-called differences out of thin air, to fit the two terms into neat and tidy separate encyclopedia entries. I support a merge, but some people are determined to say that they are two totally different kinds of music, even though nobody has clearly and factually defined those supposed differences. I think there was already merge message in this article at one point, but was taken down.Spylab 19:37, 6 August 2006 (UTC)Spylab


 * This really needs to be merged with Oi! Can we have a formal vote?Hoponpop69 07:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Of course we can. Feel free to intiate one. However, this article is (and will continue to be) based more or less entirely speculation and people's general opinion of how things are. So too will the Oi! article. You might believe your opinions are more educated than others, as Spylab seems to, but you can't just accuse the internet generation of the opposite of what you believe and then automatically be correct or verifiable. There are no references in these articles that lend any credence to anyone's claims in this debate. You can err on the side of caution, leave these articles separate and hope that they develop into better articles (they both are pretty bad right about now). Or you can merge them, and hope for the best. That's my take on it, and I will vote no merge, but you're welcome to disagree. Cheeser1 08:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Bands that fit into both Oi! and streetpunk
Just to point out the nonsense defining Oi! and streetpunk as different genres, here are some major bands that fit (or at least at one point have fit) into both categories:

Blitz; Exploited; The Business; Red Alert; Last Resort; Cockney Rejects; The Partisans; Sham 69; Angelic Upstarts; Peter and the Test Tube Babies; Splodgenessabounds; The Oppressed; The Gonads; Menace; The Blood; Infa Riot; Cocksparrer; One Way System; Vicious Rumours; Vice Squad

As you can see, these are major bands that helped define the genre. They have just as many differences as similarities -- musically, aesthetically and lyrically. The so-called differences between Oi! and streetpunk are just a fabrication of the Internet generation.Spylab 19:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)Spylab


 * Yes, you can say that all you want - and I'm not necessarily disagreeing - but you can't prove that you're any more correct than this vague "internet generation" you accuse of presenting an innaccuracy. I could easily split your list into streetpunk and oi! and tell you you're wrong. And there's nothing that says which of us would be correct. I might agree with your claims, I might not, but the fact is they are simply your claims, until you come up with some research or reasoning behind it, your arbitary merge is just as good as the arbitrary distinction between the two. I'm not arguing about the genres here, I'm just trying to explain that if you really wanted to settle this, you'd need more evidence than what you've presented. I mean, why do you think this article has the "needs citations" tag? 149.43.x.x 21:06, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
We seem to have some vandalism problems here. --Saint-Paddy 03:11, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I think we should eliminate all the band links that are red. Anyone with me? JHMM13 (T | C) 04:23, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Gutterpunk

 * Also it could be merged with Gutter punk (it redirects from Gutterpunk but gutter punk with a space is a separate article. Nagelfar 20:48, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * no, don't merge it. they're differen't kinds of punk, even though many bands can be both anonymous


 * It should be merged with street punk seeing as the term "gutter punk" is usually used as a deragatory term for street punks. Dwnsjane2 01:48, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if this is right place to write this, but Gutterpunk should probably be deleted, because nobody can agree what it means. Either it refers to homeless crust punks or Oi!-based streetpunks. Those are two totally different subcultures, who don't get along for the most part.

Whatever is decided about 'Streetpunk' and 'OI', none of this is relevant to the 'Gutterpunk'entry. The 'Gutterpunk' article will be expanded and corrected as social science research takes its course. 'Gutter punk'or 'gutterpunk'(it is not yet clear whether or not the space will make a difference) as referred to in the article has nothing whatsoever to do with music or fashion. It is a social science term that is emerging as a demographic differentiator between subgroups of street-dwelling youth. Watch the Journal Of Childhood, Youth and Environment for developments. http://www.colorado.edu/journals/cye/ 196.25.255.210 07:38, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Just noting my support for the "DON'T MERGE GUTTERPUNK!" rationale. (There is more to the world than what's been mentioned on M-tv) --André SC 00:59, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Gutter punks are a usually an a-political group with no affiliations with crust punk other than the fact that they squat. There are a lot of crust punks who have homes and jobs. Gutter punks reject that to the extreme like some crusties, but do not share the same ideologies. I wrote that part in the gutter punk article, but did not cite my sources. I think Gutterpunk as an article needs a complete overhaul or it needs to be deleted, but it should not be merged.66.15.146.252 19:58, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Don't merge Street punk and Oi! but before...
But before, we must do some corrections to this article and we must clearly write what are the differences between Street punk and Oi! Cause almost everyone seems confuse...(cause some groups play both styles, some label themself, etc.) We should stop writing about what street punx wear (it's not an argument that prove they're different, according to me) Maybe it could be better discussing about differences in music itself..But not just by enumerate some names of bands....What I mean is you can hear a difference between The Cockney Rejects and The Exploited so, discuss about that difference... It has musical terms that helps to explain...use it...I would like to do that job but I don't even know what a rift is...(Yeah it's stupid but I don't realy care, I don't play music...)...And their lyrics...talk about them...


 * The musical and lyrical difference between Cockney Rejects and The Exploited aren't big enought to define Oi! and streetpunk as two distinct music genres. If you listen to the original Oi! records, you'll find bands that sound similar to both, and also ones that don't sound like either of them. The Exploited even had two songs on the very first Oi! compilation, so to deny that they were Oi!, at least in the beginning, would be to rewrite history.Spylab 19:07, 6 August 2006 (UTC)Spylab

notability of Chaos UK and guitarist Gabba?
A user has been edit-warring for deleting this entry:


 * Gabba (musician), a guitarist in the 1980s streetpunk band Chaos UK, now in the 2006 band ASBO Youth

(whose code also embedded a reference links to http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:iif1zfaheh6k~T1 for source and notability) from the disambiguation page Gabba, arguing that it's not notable enough to ever have a Wikipedia article, and thus to be listed as a redlink on a dab page. You can provide opinion and information (positive or negative) about it at the discussion page Talk:Gabba so as to help sort it out.

Thanks,

-- 62.147.112.36 14:43, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

operation ivy
--Hamburgler343 22:07, 14 July 2006 (UTC)--Hamburgler343 22:07, 14 July 2006 (UTC) since when is operation ivy a street punk band

Just because a lot of streetpunks like them doesnt mean they identify with the culture... I know a lot of crusties like them too but that certainly doesnt identify them with crust punk... Hell, I only know one punk who DOESN'T like them... I think it should be removed--Terronez 18:38, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Merge Vote

 * This really needs to be merged with Oi! Can we have a formal vote?Hoponpop69 07:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Do not merge. Firstly, a flippant blaming of the "internet generation" is not sufficient. The lack of specific and accurate elaboration in the articles notwithstanding, there are clear differences. To me, and to others. Unless you can find a verifiable source that explains that the two are equivalent (not meaning "Oi was once called streetpunk" or "Oi and streetpunk used to be the same"), I will continue to oppose this merge. I know most of the stuff in both of these articles is unsourced, vague, and happenstance. But they can only be improved as they develop. Unless of course you merge them and stop any chance of that. As far as I'm concerned, it's an absurd notion and its motivations are entirely unverifiable. Cheeser1 01:00, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge. Almost everything here is said in the Oi! article. A lot of it is the exact same information. Even if this genre is slightly different tha Oi!, it doesn't deserve a full article and can easily just be mentioned on the Oi! page.Hoponpop69 22:22, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I would like to explain why I think you are doing these two articles harm, despite perhaps the best of intentions. Firstly, the articles now are "more or less the same" - but we can all also acknowledge that they require alot of work, work that should and will differentiate the two. Secondly, you've decided it doesn't "deserve" an article and can be a sidenote of oi, but this presupposed its lack of importance and the fact that oi somehow envelops this genre, neither of which can be verified (and of course, this might betray bias - although not one that is intentional or malicious). Now, I'm perfectly happy to entertain your side of the argument and all, but I'm just trying to make sure you understand why I think you're doing these articles a disservice. Cheeser1 23:30, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Everything in the cirticism, fasion, and the opening paragraph section is said in the Oi! article. The only thing here not found in that article is:

History: The streetpunk music genre started off as the Oi! music scene in the late 1970s in Great Britain. Musical influencs include the original wave of punk bands, as well as late-1970s British pub rock and glam rock. It was seen as a reaction against middle- and upper-class punk bands (like Generation X), and against trendy people who embraced the punk lifestyle in a superficial way. Oi! was developed by bands such as Cockney Rejects, Cock Sparrer, The Business, The 4-Skins, Skrewdriver and Sham 69. It started as a youth music style with songs about tales of the street, police brutality, working class politics and drunken mayhem. It gradually became intertwined with UK 82 and other punk subgenres. Streetpunk bands of the mid 1980s include The Exploited, Oi Polloi, Attak and U.S.CHAOS.

now compare this to a similar section on the oi! page:

Origins: The first Oi! bands included Sham 69, Cock Sparrer, the Cockney Rejects and the Angelic Upstarts, although some of them were around for years before the word Oi! was used to describe their style of music. The first incarnation of Skrewdriver, which began in 1976, is often described as Oi!, although the band never participated in the official Oi! scene. These bands were followed by bands such as The Business, The Last Resort, The 4-Skins, Blitz, Combat 84, Infa Riot, The Blood, Condemned 84 and The Oppressed.[3] Originally the style was called streetpunk or reality punk. It wasn't until the early 1980s that music journalist Garry Bushell labeled the movement Oi!, supposedly derived from the Cockney Rejects song Oi! Oi! Oi!.[4] The word Oi! is an old Cockney expression, simply meaning hey! or hello! The general ideology of the original Oi! movement was a rough sort of quasi-socialist working class populism. Lyrical topics included unemployment, workers' rights, police harassment and government oppression.[5] They also covered less-political topics like street violence, football (with chants), sex and alcohol. Although Oi! has become to be considered mainly a skinhead-oriented genre, the first Oi! bands were mostly comprised of punk rockers and people who fit neither the skinhead nor punk label.

Other than the differences in these sections, the ENTIRE Streetpunk article can be found on the Oi! page. Having two seperate pages is just a waste of space on wikipedia.Hoponpop69 06:52, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * First of all, you didn't need to post, verbatim, large chunks of the article. I've read it, I could go back and read it again, and you've already made this point. Secondly, I've explained why the similaries in the article don't, as far as I'm concerned, make the two subjects the same. Like I've said, most of the information in these articles goes entirely unsourced, and by merging the two articles, you eliminate a chance of newere and better sourced information from differentiating two things that many people have said they clearly and firmly believe are different (opinions that are no more or less valid or well-sourced than yours). And finally, wasting space on Wikipedia? The amount of space this article takes up hasn't been a concern since they invented 100MB hard drives. If there are reasons to keep an article or at least continue discussing the changes, we shouldn't lambast the article as a "waste of space." It seems no one else is voting, and if no one does, I would suggest we leave this be as there is no clear consensus at this point. Cheeser1 17:15, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Other Big Street Punk Cities
Boise, Idaho is a HUGE street punk citie. It is probably the biggest type of genre there The Clydelishes Clyde 17:33, 24 March 2007 (UTC)