Talk:String Quartet No. 14 (Beethoven)

Untitled
Does anybody know the source of the "thank God there is less lack of imagination than ever before" quote?

Wagner Quote in Sullivan's Beethoven
I removed the following quote from the article: "An excellent description of Wagner's reaction to this opus is to be found in Sullivan's 'Beethoven'." What was Wagners description? I like the fact there there is a reference, but I think whatever the reference is referring to should be included. DavidRF 22:12, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * In Wagner’s 1870 essay "Beethoven," pages 61-64, he used Beethoven’s String Quartet in C# Minor to illustrate a day in Beethoven’s life. See pages 61 to 64 in this book

Robert Winter
The wikilink to Robert Winter is to the wrong Robert Winter. There doesn't seem to be a page here for the right Robert Winter, but there should be. He is a musicologist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.24.135.235 (talk) 08:38, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Book Reference
This surely has no encyclopaedic value. It looks like a thinly disguised advertisement to me. The fact that a book was written on the Quartet is perhaps notable, but the rest needs to be removed immediately. Gunstar hero (talk) 16:20, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Clean up tag
Hello. I've just added a cleanup tag. At first glance the content looks good, but its very oddly ordered. Its strange having so much content before the TOC. Also, the large paragraph after the movement list should be split up. Background information pertaining the the quartet as a whole should move up into the lede and information specific to individual movements should move down into the analysis section. Just my two cents. Cheers. DavidRF (talk) 22:38, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm a bit worried about the dischord between the Kerman quote and the thematic analysis. The theme of the first movement fugue is indeed present in the finale, but surely in inversion? Shouldn't that be said?Delahays (talk) 20:27, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

"Picardy third"
Not every major ending is a Picardy third. The last 38 bars are in major! Kostaki mou (talk) 04:55, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

"Resemblance" to Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier
Whether or not the first movement of this string quartet resembles Bach's work is entirely subjective. Someone needs to find a reliable source supporting this perceived "resemblance." Otherwise, the statement needs to be removed. 128.120.110.38 (talk) 01:07, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Ending
Several people have "corrected" this article to say that the ending is in C# minor, not C# major. If they will check the e's in the final measures of both the first and last movements, they will see that they are sharped. This makes the key C# major, not C# minor. Kostaki mou (talk) 15:17, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Major/Minor
I am not claiming the final chord is C# minor (although the sentence in the text is ambiguous about whether it meant the final movement or the final chord). But if it comes down to it, it's not for us to analyze the piece, but to provide reliable sources that provide that analysis. I left that as is.

It's the attribution of the piece as a whole that I changed. A quick search on google, even ignoring those sites who might have used Wikipedia as a source call it Quartet No. 14 in C# minor. And all authority records follow suit:


 * http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/no91026347
 * https://d-nb.info/gnd/300016034
 * http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb139081579

I propose we switch back to C# minor in the infobox.

--John (User:Jwy/talk) 05:19, 2 May 2020 (UTC)


 * If I changed the infobox I certainly did not intend to. The key of the work as a whole is certainly C# minor.  I thought someone had changed the article to state that the work ended in C# minor, which it does not.  As I stated above, the last thirty-eight bars are in C# major.  Kostaki mou (talk) 14:32, 2 May 2020 (UTC)


 * I checked the history. Looks like I'm guilty as charged!  Sorry!  I thought the article had said that the work ended in C# minor and that I'd changed it to say that it ended in C# major.  That is what I intended.  Kostaki mou (talk) 16:25, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I suspected that was the case. I'm not going weigh in on the other item.  Happy editing.  --John (User:Jwy/talk) 16:29, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

What does this mean?
An early sentence in the section titled Music reads as follows:

"While Beethoven composed the quartet in six distinct key areas, the work begins in C♯ minor and ends in C♯ major."

What is meant by "six distinct key areas"??? The word "areas" could mean many different things. But this comment is never explained later in the article.2601:200:C000:1A0:4CBA:C7AC:F663:37A2 (talk) 01:50, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I suppose the phrase "composed the quartet in six distinct key areas" was used to avoid "composed the quartet's movements in six different keys". Anyway, inspecting the table at the beginning of "Music" should make it clear to readers what is meant. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:02, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

In the sentence beginning " In particular, the motto......" shouldn't the next word be "figure" and not "fugue"?Delahays (talk) 11:35, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Reading the description of the first movement, "fugue" is clearly what is meant. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:21, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

With the very greatest respect, and accepting that all writing about music is either metaphor or (often disputed) formula, this is not so, at least for a native English speaker. What is being attempted in this sentencs is surely NOT a description of a "fugue" which is a composition or a "texture" but the subject of a fugue (which is certainly also used eslewhere in other quartets for other purposes than fugue, but is, in isolation, a theme). Step by step, as exposed in this sentence, it is in fact a succession of musical figures which constitute in sequence, a theme in their totality. But it is NOT, itself, a fugue - for one thing, it is, as described here, monody without counterpoint. I don't think it would be acceptable if I were to describe the first D natural unison of the second movement of Op 131 as the establishment of a key.Delahays (talk) 13:43, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:52, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Beethoven String Quartet no. 14, VII. Allegro-Poco Adagio-Allegro.oga

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
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 * Beethoven String Quartet no. 14, VI. Adagio Quasi Un Poco Andante.oga

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 * Beethoven String Quartet no. 14, VI. Adagio Quasi Un Poco Andante.oga
 * Beethoven String Quartet no. 14, VII. Allegro-Poco Adagio-Allegro.oga

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reasons for deletion at the file description pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:22, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Beethoven String Quartet no. 14, I. Adagio Ma Non Troppo E Molto Espressivo.oga
 * Beethoven String Quartet no. 14, II. Allegro Molto Vivace.oga
 * Beethoven String Quartet no. 14, III. Allegro Moderato-Adagio.oga
 * Beethoven String Quartet no. 14, Iv. Andante Ma Non Troppo E Molto Cantabile.oga
 * Beethoven String Quartet no. 14, V.Presto.oga

possibly interesting publications
PhD thesis about "The Critical and Artistic Reception of Beethoven’s String Quartet in C♯ minor, op. 131". A fairly comprehensive survey of other authors' commentaries about the quartet

OUP book by Nancy November about the quartet

Musical Times article presenting the quartet as a "case study of an invisible city". I actually liked this. Not too much purple prose like some other writings have. J. W. N. Sullivan's are particularly saturated.

Disclaimer: I'm just a musical doofus, listening to this thing because reasons and unable to make much sense of it. The above are from a web search looking for clues. I'll leave it to others to figure out which if any are usable for the article or its development. 2601:644:8501:AAF0:0:0:0:E23B (talk) 20:23, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

What is the third movement key: B minor, C# minor, or F# minor?
The 3rd movement (Allegro moderato – Adagio) is currently said to be in B minor. The IMSLP page says it is in C# minor. It's not obvious from the signature alone what the key is, as it has 3 sharps. It does seem to end in E major, though. I can see how it might be in C# minor (or even F# minor), but I fail to see why B minor. Duducoutinho (talk) 13:46, 6 January 2024 (UTC)