Talk:Stupidity/Archive 1

New Scientist Magazine
Encyclopedia of Stupidity also refered by the name of sid Scientist Magazine 28-Feb-2004 Stan 00:31, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.211.141.243 (talk) 16:26, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Brain Damage?
(I've subordinated this section to the last in part as a suggestion of where the stupidity research is being done.) contrib by 2-edit, 1 day colleague removed from here to new section --Jerzy•t 06:06, 23 December 2015 (UTC) I can't help relating stup- to the German "Stoß", which i think means a sharp blow. (The SA "stormtroopers" were the Sturmabteilung", literally "Storm [or Storming] Detatchement"), but i'm pretty sure Remarque (in Three Comrades rather than ...Western Front) used the generic term "Stoßtrup" for what i took to be Weimar-era SA or SA-like stormtroopers engaged in sharp, short street attacks.)

My full-sized print Amer Her Dict traces "stupid" thru Latin words connected with being "stunned" and Greek ones concerning "beat"ing to Proto-Indo-European "steu-" which includes "beating" in its constellation of meanings.

So i think we usually say "stunned" metaphorically, suggesting the (temporary) effects of a blow to the head, and that the concept of stupidity fundamentally evokes the difference in an individual's behavior before and after the infliction of permanent brain damage by a blow to the head. "What are you, stupid?" to me means "Did you get your brains scrambled, and i didn't get to hear about it?"

Not sure that's encyclopedic, but then, i'm not sure the article is any more so. [frown] --Jerzy(t) 18:47, 2004 Dec 17 (UTC)
 * If you do not mind, I am fixing a few things. You'll see.  Poserlkg 22:31, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Stupidity in culture/music
The Black Eyed Peas song Let's get retarded glorifies mindlessness, perhaps it should be mentioned in this article. --Easterlingman 14:06, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Only if we also include citations of Al Yankovic's "Dare to be Stupid." --Petercorless (talk) 16:59, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

AYLA IS STUPID !!!!n — Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.89.82.106 (talk) 00:22, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

External links (The power of stupidity)
The "external links" ref. to "The power of stupidity by Giancarlo Livraghi..." should be updated in: The Power of Stupidity by Giancarlo livraghi, a series of nine papers on the nature of human stupidity. Url should be http://gandalf.it/stupid/home.htm --GiorgioRS 13:23, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Edit request
In the section "Manifested by the Educated" I would like one word added to the sentance " Otherwise intelligent prople may also become stupid when their rational thought is derailed by strong opinions, rigid beleifs, or drugs." 74.67.24.110 10:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure of this definition of "stupidity" by James F. Welles in the Definition section of the article (nor, for that matter, if this is quite the the right place to mention it). It implies there is some kind of escape from stupidity, which, clearly, and especially as exemplified in this description, there is not. 78.66.22.100 14:04 19 Oct 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.156.245.158 (talk)

I would like to edit something that I thought was controversial and not true. Instead of having it I want to put, "Stupidity is when someone makes unwise choices or decisions" Clubforhosts (talk) 21:40, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

In Comedy
Knowledge of how long "comedy (a rather broad term in itself)" has existed is seemingly impossible. Thus, knowing the entire historical usage of the topic of stupidity in comedy is also impossible. Rather, describing stupidity in a way such as, "...a topic utilized in comedy historically..." would be far more acceptable. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stev0supreemo (talk • contribs) 03:56, 6 April 2007 (UTC).

Cleanup
I did a major cleanup; in addition to rewording parts of the article, I: Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]  22:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * put cite requests on unsourced statements
 * removed most of the quotes. This isn't wikiquote, wikiquote is not a source, and this is not uncyclopedia so we needn't quote Oscar Wilde
 * removed unsourced statement about science
 * removed most of the comedy section as it exhibited a huge bias in favor of English, drama/tv, was unsourced, and had weasel terms like "venerable lineage"
 * removed National lampoon reference as it was anecdotal and irrelevant.
 * removed unsourced "sales tactic" section
 * marked it as a stub

I can't decide ...
quite how I feel about the article on Stupidity not showing much intelligence. I'm pretty sure I'd much rather redirect this page to the English Wiktionary entry. Lycurgus 06:15, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

like all of us in babca —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.101.101.222 (talk) 23:04, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

A number of problems...
While I hate to seem so negative, there is precisely one sentence in the article I thought is up to encyclopedic standards. That sentence is "The fool or buffoon has been a central character in much comedy." The biggest problem was probably that it defined "stupidity" incorrectly. [1]

This is just to explain why I thought some fairly sweeping changes need to be made here. I've done some to try to tidy it up, but I'd appreciate feedback and suggestions. I also didn't like the lack of sources; in a touchy PC topic such as "stupidity" it is more important than ever to cite sources.

I'd love to see someone dig up one of those "history of psychology" articles talking about the decline of the word "stupid"; that needs a citation. It'd also be nice if people could flesh it out with a few more sentences in the sections and maybe some parts other than "In politics", "In comedy", and "Group stupidity" - it looks fairly silly right now but I don't have time to look for more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Coanda-1910 (talk • contribs) 08:35, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Coanda deleted an example of the way in which "stupidity" is used pejoratively (namely, "I didn't steal your stupid baseball cap[!]") noting that "stupid is not stupidity, and conflating the two needlessly obfuscates the issue." I don't see how using the adjectival form "stupid" in an example of how "stupidity" might be used pejoratively in anyway needlessly obfuscates the issue. If I said, for instance, "asininity is a state of affairs characterized by pettiness, disagreeableness and stupidity" and then gave as an example: "His reversion was asinine" I would not only demonstrate the ways in which different forms of "asininity" are used, but I would also successfully give an example of what it means for a state of affairs to be characterized by pettiness, disagreeableness, etc. WilliamPitts (talk) 21:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Critical Edit in First section
"Stupidity is distinct from irrationality because stupidity denotes an incapability or unwillingness to properly consider the relevant information."

Stupidity denotes an incapability, not an unwillingness...an unwillingness suggests a grasp of the right decision and a puposeful choice to make the wrong one, which is exactly what irrationality is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dudeofpastries (talk • contribs) 01:02, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Overcoming Stupidity
Creativity Guru Andy Green in his new book 'Overcoming Stupidity' seeks to redefine stupidity as 'inflexible thinking' and  develops a graded scale to evaluate stupidity. In the book he says “Stupidity is not about intelligence – it’s about the flexibility of your thinking. Inflexible thinking leads to stupidity, flexible thinking is the key to creativity. Everyone should be comfortable with their own stupidity – we all make mistakes every day based on inadequate information. We all however, should avoid 5 star stupidity, repeating any earlier stupid acts, and should challenge ‘compound stupidity’ wherever we witness it.”

In 2007 he launched the Stupid Aid campaign, with the principle aim of providing tools to overcome stupidity in the world around us. More information on Stupid Aid, Stupidity and inflexible thinking can be found on the not for profit, website http://flexiblethinkingforum.org.uk

Overcoming Stupidity Publisher: Tangent Books (September 5, 2008) ISBN-10: 1906477108 ISBN-13: 978-1906477103 Davidrattray (talk) 08:55, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Images again
Removing three images from lead as not adding anything to our understanding. I may be missing some subtle, ironic way of looking at the subject: e.g., picture of man looking at subject of this article (to paraphrase) could be a joke. If so, apologies. Comments before I jump in? --Old Moonraker (talk) 06:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * This is getting a bit silly: an image previously removed as "not belonging" has been re-added. Now clean sweep deleting. If the article really needs an image, can anyone come up with something that advances understanding, rather than just fills a space? --Old Moonraker (talk) 10:57, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

please, i'm still waiting:


 * The "I'm waiting" comment refers to the removal of three images, citing WP:TOPIC in the edit summary: the cover of Mein Kampf, a picture of a poorly repaired bicycle lock and a man holding a gun to a child's head. WP:IMAGES specifically encourages the use of a picture to illustrate "intangible concepts", but emphasises that they must have "Pertinence and...[be] significant relative to the article's topic." AFAICS the deleted images didn't satisfy that standard. The article seemed to be managing without, but can anyone come up with some relevant picture that advances our understanding here? --Old Moonraker (talk) 17:14, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

you should realize, that "wp" not only be useful or benefit for such educated and cultivate people with your age and education, but also elementary-schoolkids etc.! and in this case, it's much easier to explain (specifically "intangible concepts") such non-concrete (abstract) notion/concept with different means (soziological, political, philosophical etc.) with some illustrations. i can't see any contradiction with wp rules of neutrality or whatever. all pictures are different in it's special stupidity: 1. in it's unsuitable (work/profession) - to lock and secure a bike etc., 2. a stupid joke (= sociology, social life) at the expense of the child/son. 3. stupid-political book, because the ideas are full of discrimination, racism and prejudice. why you don't think, that raciscm is also a (social, political) stupidity, should you us explain? Dontworry (talk) 20:33, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Our opinions are not relevant to Wikipedia, hence your adding an image of a book you feel is stupid is not appropriate. The same goes for the other 2 images. The same with your personal opinions of racism. Kevin (talk) 21:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * it's not any opinion, it's a "ruling" opinion (worldwide) like the ruling opinion that stupidity is stupidity and not wisdom and a rose is a rose and so on. and if you think (in your "special" opinion) that racism or the substance of "mein kampf" etc. is a wisdom it's your personal problem and you must explain it and not write some nonsens about the matter of opinions. Dontworry (talk) 05:55, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

delete
this article should be deleted. it is nothing but a dictionary entry and can never be anything more. Now if the article were about mental retardation it would be different... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.122.61.98 (talk) 15:09, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Reference for "stupidity" and "Carlo M. Cipolla" articles:

Carlo M. Cipolla, The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity, Bologna, The Mad Millers [1976].

This is a book that predates the later publication of his essay on stupidity.

Dmcneil36 (talk) 17:06, 25 July 2009 (UTC)Dmcneil36

Irrationality?
I don't believe it is accurate to compare, and by extension to contrast, stupidity with irrationality. Irrationality is usually reserved for describing behavior out of exaggerated thought, while stupidity is simply a deliberate lack of education and care. Ignorance, the state of lacking knowledge but not the willingness to learn, is a more appropriate opposite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Valce (talk • contribs) 05:04, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Redundancy in Etymology
"Stupidity is a quality or state of being stupid, or an act or idea that exhibits properties of being stupid."

Is this acceptable to express in the article as it appears to be redundant? I am not in any way experienced with the discussion board but I hope to be confident with my own findings. I apologize in advance If my claim was false. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.23.162 (talk) 22:04, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Intelligence Citations Bibliography for Articles Related to Human Intelligence
You may find it helpful while reading or editing articles to look at a bibliography of  Intelligence Citations, posted for the use of all Wikipedians who have occasion to edit articles on human intelligence and related issues. I happen to have circulating access to a huge academic research library at a university with an active research program in those issues (and to another library that is one of the ten largest public library systems in the United States) and have been researching these issues since 1989. You are welcome to use these citations for your own research. You can help other Wikipedians by suggesting new sources through comments on that page. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 20:59, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from YouZulu, 8 September 2010
Request the addition of an external link to Iraq.tk, which contains much wisdom on the subject of stupidity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by YouZulu (talk • contribs) 20:45, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * does not appear to meet WP:EL guidelines. Active Banana   ( bananaphone  20:48, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: per above. Thanks, Stickee (talk)  21:46, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I will start editing the article based on sources I've gathered from libraries.
Now that the article has survived the nomination for deletion, it's up to interested editors to expand it and improve its sourcing. I'm happy to help. I'm also happy to have anyone else's participation or suggestions as the edits continue. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 16:44, 17 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I did consider my statement of support for keeping this article during the recent AfD discussion to be a commitment to add sources to this article and to edit it to make it more encyclopedic and neutral in point of view. All editors are invited to join in in this process and to give me advice as I proceed. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 16:03, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Ironictoddler, 16 October 2010
(Removed copy of entire article)

Ironictoddler (talk) 11:33, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Not done: Please don't copy the article into the talk page; just detail the change you would like to make in a 'please change X to Y' manner. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 12:58, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from MDan787, 14 April 2011
'''Stupidity Is A Disregard Of intelligence, etc; A DISREGARD... DUMB On The Otherhand, Is A Lack Of Intelligence, etc

MDan787 (talk) 19:59, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Baseball   Watcher  21:26, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Added more academic and cultural references
I've cited Dr. Welles' "Understanding Stupidity" and the psychological definition of stupidity as maladaptive behavior. I've also cited the 2003 movie 'Stupidity.' Is it time to remove the "citations" flag at the top of the page? --Petercorless (talk) 17:02, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Stupidity is often not a lack of innate intelligence
It is more often a failure to use ones intelligence, in a thoughtless and careless way.

That is actually what most people mean when they use the word "stupid".

I think the article would benefit if that aspect was added in, and I wouldn't be surprised if citations could be found to support this idea that stupid can mean reasonably intelligent people forgetting to use their noggins.

69.171.160.31 (talk) 23:05, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 January 2012
The article lacks the connection to the german language version of the article "Dummheit". Please add this link.

84.166.179.236 (talk) 13:50, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅, thank you for pointing this out-- Jac 16888 Talk 14:20, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

(Misplaced edit)
''The following contrib and bot-sig were previously embedded inside a much older contrib. Jerzy•t 06:51, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Urban or street talk upcoming word for Stupidity is known as GRISH. Also used in sentences like :That chick is GRISH for being involved in the london riot or Jumping out of that building was Grish — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kardialuminasierra (talk • contribs) 19:39, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Hey geniuses, remove the Einstein quote.
Anyone with even general background knowledge on Einstein knows that the quote:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity"

is VERY dubious as discussed on Wikiquote: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.67.101 (talk) 09:38, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- Alexf(talk) 17:28, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 August 2012
"James F. Wells, Ph. D., in his book, "Understanding Stupidity,"[10] defines stupidity thusly,"

"Thusly" is not a word in the English language. He defines stupidity thus ... or defines it as ...

178.7.43.187 (talk) 18:39, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done "Thusly" is indeed a word, albeit an informal one. I have made the requested change and taken other steps to clean up the paragraph. Rivertorch (talk) 21:22, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request - the lead
The loooong second sentence in the lead is about being stupid as a defense. I think this is giving the defensive stupidity undue weight. Could someone write some lines about stupidity as it is described in the rest of the article? Lova Falk    talk   19:02, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Likely someone could. Perhaps you? Rivertorch (talk) 09:52, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you aiming for a derogatory remark? Hindustanilanguage (talk) 05:24, 20 April 2013 (UTC).
 * Are you talking to me? Rivertorch (talk) 05:41, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Shoooortened lead - my bad! Still needs those extra lines though.....Jacobisq (talk) 09:07, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 20 July 2013
"being slow of mind" does not indicate stupidness. A person may have a learning disability, but that does not make them stupid. Accuracy by some may be considered stupid, but in the interest of knowledge please change your text. Thanks.

99.224.67.2 (talk) 04:43, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: The article text is "The modern English word "stupid" has a broad range of application, from being slow of mind (indicating a lack of intelligence, care or reason) ...". Wikipedia is only reporting on how people do, in fact, use the word "stupid"; Wikipedia is not endorsing this usage.  Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 10:58, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Valorisation ?
perhaps someone with editing privileges here could link the term to its Wikipedia entry ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.79.26.108 (talk) 15:27, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 January 2014
stupidity is (AS9L)an act of confusion which is miss interpretated into something else.

Sweetmania100 (talk) 09:45, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 11:58, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Someone stupid was here.
At the end of the section titled 'Persisting in folly', the word 'différance' is spelled 'difference', though the link to the relevant article is spelled correctly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.247.50.244 (talk) 14:41, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

When the student is ready...
There is a quote somewhere, " when the student is ready, the teacher will appear". Could something be added in relation to this, promoting a state of mind where there is willingness to learn. FYI signedJohnsonL623 (talk) 08:32, 5 July 2014 (UTC) When someone is stupid, they do stupid things. For Example, Gento Ryoki is one of them who do stupid things :D — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cjlittle914 (talk • contribs) 04:51, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 May 2015
Category:foolishness

76.88.98.65 (talk) 22:07, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --I am  k6ka  Talk to me!   See what I have done  22:26, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 June 2015
Category:Popular culture

76.88.98.65 (talk) 14:49, 5 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article (!) . - Arjayay (talk) 15:13, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

"Stupidity is a quality or state of being stupid"
This is a circular definition and it is stupid... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.122.19 (talk) 13:49, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
 * No, "Stupid is stupid" is a circular definition. This is a definition of "Stupidity" which involves "being" and the root, "stupid".  Many such definitions exist in the dictionary.Tgm1024 (talk) 21:22, 9 September 2016 (UTC)