Talk:Suavjärvi

Is it really the oldest?
The link to further info on Suavjärvi is dead. Yarrabubba crater is now being called the oldest known impact crater. SlyGuyFox (talk) 06:07, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Suggested rename of this article from Suavjärvi lake to Suavjärvi
On 8 July 2022, this article was renamed by User:Hemiauchenia from "Suavjärvi crater" to "Suavjärvi lake". In the Karelian language, "järvi" means "lake" (see e.g. https://glosbe.com/krl/en/järvi ). The current title of this article, in effect, means "Suav lake lake". I suggest that this article should be renamed from Suavjärvi lake to Suavjärvi. GeoWriter (talk) 17:02, 9 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Per List of tautological place names, and the fact that only 36,000 people speak karelian out of a population of around 600,000 in the Karelian Republic, I think this is fine. Hemiauchenia (talk) 17:29, 9 July 2022 (UTC)


 * I think the vast majority of the names listed in List of tautological place names are acceptable precisely because they are the English MOS:COMMONNAME. I haven't found any evidence that "Suavjärvi lake" is the English MOS:COMMONNAME. I think the Karelian lakes entry in that list article, which states "Republic of Karelia, Russia is full of Ozero ...ozero ('Lake ...-lake' in the Russian Language), or Ozero ...yarvi ('Lake ...-lake' in the Russian Language and Karelian language)" is not relevant in the case of Suavjärvi because the list article entry is referring to tautologies that exist in the Russian and Karelian names (I found an example: "Озеро Тумасозеро" (Ozero Tumasozero) near Suavjärvi). The Russian name for Suavjärvi is "Суавъярви" (Suav'yarvi), not "Oзеро Суавъярви" (Ozero Suav'yarvi). You have introduced a tautology into English that does not exist in either Karelian or Russian. Also, the list article is not a Wikipedia guideline or policy. GeoWriter (talk) 18:59, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Age
This article currently states "They estimate it to be about 2.4 billion (2.4 x 109) years old based upon the age of the overlying volcanic-sedimentary strata of the Jatulian Group that partially buries it. This age places it in the Archean–Proterozoic boundary, 200±29 Ma older than Yarrabubba impact structure and would make it the oldest verified impact structure on Earth." What is the source for "This age places it in the Archean–Proterozoic boundary"?. There are "about" 100 million years between "about 2.4 billion years old" and the Archean-Proterozoic boundary (2,500 Ma). So, I think this claim in the article is not correct. Yarrabubba impact structure is dated at 2,229 ± 5 Ma i.e. 2,224 to 2,234 Ma. If Suavjärvi is 2.4 billion years old, then Suavjärvi is 171 ± 5 Ma older than Yarrabubba. If Suavjärvi is 2.5 billion years old, then Suavjärvi is 271 ± 5 Ma older than Yarrabubba. What is the source for "200±29 Ma older than Yarrabubba"? I think this claim in the article is not correct. I think that "200±29 Ma older than Yarrabubba" would put the age of Suavjärvi between 2,395 and 2,463 Ma. This Wikipedia article cites two sources for the age of the Suavjärvi impact structure: (1) Mashchak and Naumov (1996): "we propose 2400 m.a. as a probable age of the impact"; (2) Mashchak and Naumov (2012): "a geologic age of the Suavjärvi structure fits into an age interval of between 2.7 and 2.2 Ga." So, 16 years after their initial guess, these authors moved to a 500 million year age range. The impact is older than the basal Jatulian (which is of unknown age but assumed to be "approximately 2200–2300 Ma") and the impact rocks seem to have not been radiometrically dated. The age of Suavjärvi is so poorly constrained that it could stay within all of its known very loose geological age constraints (e.g. older than basal Jatulian etc.) while actually being millions of years younger (not older) than Yarrabubba, e.g. if Suavjärvi's age is 2,220 Ma. Any numerical age for Suavjärvi seems to be extremely speculative. I think the large uncertainty about the age of the Suavjärvi impact structure should be emphasized in the Wikipedia article. — GeoWriter (talk) 18:40, 14 July 2022 (UTC)