Talk:Subdivisions of Ivory Coast

Sub-prefectures and communes
Can someone explain even better than already described the difference between the two? I suspect communes are basically for urban areas, in which case, you'd imagine they'd be independent of the sub-prefecture in which they resided, but it sounds like they where they exist, they are a subdivision of a sub-prefecture? Is this correct? I'd imagine taht a sub-prefecture basically covers more rural areas populated with small, unincorporated settlements. In some cases, however, it seems that a defined area can sometimes be both a commune and sub-prefecture like in the case of Grand-Bassam. That is, unless the article on that city simply means that these are two different areas that share a name (and in turn they share a name with another level government above it at the department level). --Criticalthinker (talk) 14:25, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * This is a tricky subject right now. The difference has been fuzzy in the past few years, simply because communes used to exist as the third-level subdivision with a more-or-less clear jurisdiction, and then in 2011–12 they were converted into fifth-level subdivisions, and most of them were eliminated because they were seen as superfluous and an unneeded expense. In terms of jurisdiction, the sub-prefecture is really what the communes used to be—a municipal-level government, essentially. Pretty much all areas of the country are divided into sub-prefectures, so they encompass rural and urban areas. Sub-prefectures supervise the various village leaders and ensure that government plans are being adhered to. Today, yes, communes are always smaller than the sub-prefecture in which it is located, but it's a bit awkward to describe them as subdivisions of sub-prefectures. No sub-prefecture that I know of has more than one commune in it, and certainly most sub-prefectures do not contain communes. On the other hand, the leaders of the commune would be supervised by the sub-prefecture, so there's a definite fourth-level/fifth-level relationship between the two.


 * In communes, multiple settlements are united under a common elected mayor and municipal council. Sub-prefectures, on the other hand, are headed by sub-prefects appointed by the central government. Almost all of the towns that are the seat of a commune—like Grand-Bassam—is also the seat of a sub-prefecture. "Grand-Bassam" is therefore the name of a department, a sub-prefecture, and a commune, all of which have different boundaries, but all of which are headquartered in Grand-Bassam.


 * My impression (not backed up by sources at this stage) is that the government's ideal was to abolish all of the communes, but the ones that were retained were kept because there were some deep historical connections that existed between the towns and villages in communes that were smaller than the desired organization of the sub-prefecture. Perhaps (and again this is just my guess) the goal now is to allow the sub-prefectures to be divided such that the still-existing communes that now exist will become sub-prefectures. This could be achieved now from the perspective of the communes (meaning the communes are strong enough to be sub-prefectures), but the problem is that in most cases the rest of the sub-prefecture outside of the commune is not ready to be a self-standing sub-prefecture. Another reason for retaining the commune is that commune leaders are elected, whereas sub-prefecture leaders are appointed; retaining a commune thus gives residents more of sense of democratic control. Village leaders are also democratically chosen, so even if a commune is abolished, there is a local elected leader.


 * I'm sorry I can't be more helpful; I'm sure what I have written is not as clear as it could be made by someone. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:40, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, this is still a bit confusing, but I think you fleshed it out more and answered most of the questions I had. I guess my major question was answered, and that is that a commune is, indeed, still part of the sub-prefecture in which it geographically sits and is another layer of local government administratively below/subordinate to the level of a sub-prefecture.  The concept isn't so foreign as it originally sounded to me.  It sounds like what is left of communes would be roughly similar to a municipal corporation except that it sounds like communes in Ivory Coast can correspond to a single urban settlement or be more like a sub-prefecture and cover a lot of smaller disconnected settlements.  Sounds like both communes and subprefectures are local governments, but that the former is more an example of a municpal government which is "closer" to the local people.  I guess what I would make clear in the article is that the sub-prefecture is the basic unit of local government that covers the entirety of the country save for the two examples cited, and that communes can exist but are not statutory subdivisions. --Criticalthinker (talk) 18:05, 15 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Those are good suggestions. A major part of what makes this hard is that the issue of all of these subdivisions is terribly unsettled politically, and has for several years now. The districts were created in 2011, but most of them still are not functioning due to resistance from the regions. No one really knows what the exact difference in jurisdiction between the two is supposed to be. Most communes were abolished, but not all, and the government hasn't yet explained exactly how the remaining communes and sub-prefectures are supposed to work together and/or divide up responsibilities. You read some things about how things are operating in practice and wow, between the theory and the practice there is quite a chasm right now. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:42, 15 March 2016 (UTC)