Talk:Subjectivity and objectivity (philosophy)

Merging the former Objectivity and Subjectivity talk pages here
Not sure if anyone knows how to do that smoothly. Any help would be appreciated. Wolfdog (talk) 01:19, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Transjectivity, intersubjectivity
Seems like there should be some mention of how ideas like transjectivity and intersubjectivity play into things. I am lacking the expertise to write on this subject I'm afraid. AslanFrench (talk) 22:57, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Bayesian probability gives the source of all knowledge
The modern approach used in AI is that all knowledge about the world arises (in essence) from Bayesian probability. This theory states that you may only update prior probabilities to gain posterior probabilities. This process is repeated as knowledge of the world is refined by experience. One might hope that these probabilities converge towards the truth.

However, for rational agents acting in the world, then starting from different priors may lead to convergence to different truths. The classic example is a negative racist attitude leading to a negative response which confirms the negative opinion. Whereas a positive attitude may elicit a positive response confirming the positive opinion.

So all knowledge about the world is inherently subjective, in the sense that one agent's probabilities may differ from another agent's even if both agents act and calculate optimally.

The word has then lost its original meaning. Sadly, these outdated ideas about objectivity and subjectivity are still being used. A more useful way to define objectivity as relating to the contemplation of objects in the world whereas subjectivity relates to the contemplation of the actions of intelligent agents. In reasoning about objects, logic may be applied. In reasoning about subjects/agents, the agent's motives must be considered. This may be closer to the modern use of these words.

Another use of the word subjectivity relates to qualia and the experience of existence. Such experience is internal to the mind and is subjective. From outside of a person, it is impossible to know if the individual feels pain. Only by inference from our own experience can we argue that other beings feel pain. This "outside" viewpoint may be termed objective, whereas the internal experience of an individual may be thought of as subjective. Consciousness remains a deep mystery.

Thepigdog (talk) 02:47, 12 March 2024 (UTC)