Talk:Sullivan, Illinois

I'm not so sure that the several sentence long narrative on The Old School House becoming a CVS is of encyclopedia-importance. I would certainly welcome conversation from whoever put it there, but I suggest its deletion.Quixotic joe (talk) 21:00, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

"[O]ne of the best places in the midwest to see a professional live stage production"!? An area that includes Chicago, St. Louis, Indianapolis, and the Twin Cities, just to name a few? How about "one of the best places in central Illinois"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.215.103.177 (talk) 20:08, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

I've added a section on Tax Increment Financing, as it's used extensively in Sullivan. I will be adding more detailed information to this section soon. Oldsmobile (talk) 21:00, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Biased and Unencyclopedic Edits to Page
I believe that recent additions to this page have been biased, unencyclopedic, and/or based on unreliable sources. I am referring specifically to the High Levels of Toxic Chemical in Drinking Water; Agri-Fab and OSHA Violations; and Tax Increment Financing Districts sections. It probably wouldn't be productive to debate issues of historical fact; I think it's enough to say that even if everything in these sections were true, they are not appropriate additions to a general wiki article. I suggest they be deleted and stay deleted.Quixotic joe (talk) 01:22, 6 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The "High Levels of Toxic Chemical in Drinking Water" is untrue. The report cited refers to Sullivan, Indiana--not Sullivan, Illinois.  And the Rocky Acres/Grays Siding Coal Combustion Waste Landfill is located in Oakwood, Illinois--not Sullivan, Illinois.  I have therefore deleted it. 72.49.178.78 (talk) 21:58, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, and good catch to both of you on the water source contamination error. I was amiss in that I relied on a secondary source that referred to Sullivan, Indiana. I have now included accurate information on Sullivan's water system from an article in the New York Times that researched water systems around the U.S. With regard to the truth and appropriateness of the other sections - i.e., Agri-Fab and the Tax Increment Financing Districts, they are accurate, and they are appropriately sourced, so there is no debate of historical fact until contradictory sources are produced.

As Sullivan is a small town with only two major employers (both of which are owned by AF Holding Companies, a private company that is not subject to the disclosures and sharehoder enquiries that public companies are subjected to),that entry is important - or at least the federal government's OSHA thought it was important.

I'm not sure what the objection is to including information about the Tax Increment Financing Districts. I have added additional information to provide context and have changed the title of that section, I hope that information will help readers understand how this type of financing - which has become controversial, especially in the state of Illinois - is being used in Sullivan. I am not approaching the issue from an fixed ideological standpoint - experts seem to be divided about whether Tax Increment Financing is good or bad, and whether it works better for cities or towns. It is relevant, because Sullivan is using it for large scale public works projects that private entities and individuals are profiting from. Additionally, the obligations associated with the Districts are backed by the full faith and credit of the City of Sullivan - which could result in bankruptcy or property tax hikes, as seen in the State of California. Furthermore, the TIF Districts have themselves been leveraged by the City of Sullivan to issue over 8 million dollars in bonds through a method that did not require a public vote. The most recent audit of the Sullivan budget presented to the City Council indicated that there is now little room for error in future financial decision making by the City.

The term "inappropriate" has no meaning other than that someone has deemed it inconvenient or in violation of a subjective social norm that they support. The term "unencylopedic" is not supported by Wikipedia, as it's a form of circular reasoning - Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and saying that something is "unencyclopedic" only means that you do not want it included in Wikipedia. There is no guideline that states that the Sullivan entry is "general" rather than specific - and designating content as specific or general is also subjective. I urge the anonymous vandal to obtain a user name and contribute constructively to the article. You obviously have opinions and passion about the subject of Sullivan, Illlinois, which means you can be a valuable contributor. Thank you for your thoughts, but please don't vandalize again in the future. Best Regards, Oldsmobile (talk) 15:09, 8 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The edits have not been vandalism, they have been genuine attempts to make this town's page conform to similar pages on Wikipedia. However, you clearly have more time to police this page than I do, and I'm tired of debating it.  If you want this to read like an article from some fringe newspaper be my guest.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.49.178.78 (talk) 20:23, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

My response is - if the entry were to conform to similar pages on Wikipedia, it would have little or no content other than basic demographics and income information derived from census data, etc. Those articles "look like" that simply because no one has contributed content.

As for the article sounding like a "fringe newspaper," all you have to do is check the sources. The New York Times is not a fringe newspaper. Other information provided comes directly from the Sullivan City Council minutes or a presentation made by the area's Economic Development Council. NBC News is a source - it's not a fringe newspaper. I can't understand how something can sound like a fringe newspaper when it's from mainstream sources - and that begs the question of what a "fringe" newspaper is, anyway - one not under the control of a major corporation, I would guess.

What specifically is it that you are objecting to? You say that you don't want to debate - I understand. However, I welcome your feedback on why you think the article - and topics like town infrastructure improvement funding, high levels of indebtedness, and recurring safety problems at the company that is its major employer - which you deleted - sound like something from a fringe newspaper. Oldsmobile (talk) 16:36, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Vandalism
Complete sections were removed - one fraudulently and one without any explanation. The first section concerned the water system, and the second concerned Agri-Fab. Please provide the source material that indicates the water system issue has been resolved (I do not think it has), and please stop committing vandalism on the other section. Thank you. Oldsmobile (talk) 14:25, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

We now have a new vandal, Sullivan32. Blanking was committed on the section about Sullivan's water supply; I will restore it, as I will restore the facts about the number of college and pro teams who have dropped the name "Redskins." This is important because it shows that Sullivan is choosing a side in what has become a national controversy. This instance, and the water supply instance is simple vandalism, and if it persists, I will call on the wiki community to monitor it. In addition, the mention of a "museum" that allegedly displays seashells at a nursing home (Mason's Point) in Sullivan has no citation. I will let it stand for the present, as I do believe it exists, although it certainly is of little renown. Oldsmobile (talk) 20:03, 11 September 2014 (UTC)