Talk:Sully Historic Site

Improving article
Offhand, I recall listing "all" of the usable external sources. Someone who's inclined could certainly expand the abstraction of interesting information from those sources. However, they're pretty complete (recalling that Wikipedia is not a repository of information, I've made the article focus on tying together the sources). Tedickey 19:44, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Merge proposal from AfD
In the AfD for Francis Lightfoot Lee II, referenced above, it was proposed that said article be merged into this one. Some question was raised as to the proper article for merger. Please use this space to determine if this article is the appropriate target for that merger. When a location is determined, the proper procedure for performing the merge can be found at Help:Merge. It is important that the merger be noted with wikilinks in the edit summaries of the articles to ensure GFDL compliance. As an example, in the edit summary of this article, you might say "Material merged from Francis Lightfoot Lee II". When the material in Francis Lightfoot Lee II is merged, it must be turned into a redirect to the destination article and placed into Category:Redirects from merges by copying R from merge beneath the redirect link. If you have any questions about this or about the procedure, please let me know at my talk page or ask them at Wikipedia's help desk, generally manned around the clock by volunteers. Thanks. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 17:14, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Most of the content would fit better under the Marriages and Children section of Richard Henry Lee, except for the single sentence discussing change of ownership, which would fit here. Tedickey (talk) 17:43, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. --Michael WhiteT&middot;C 21:06, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for helping to determine the proper home for this material. The merger is complete. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:01, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Further Improvements
This is a work in progress. Content will be fleshed out and formatted properly and citations added over the next several days. I am having trouble getting the picture of the pen to place properly. May place it further down the article at a later timne. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonofkenny (talk • contribs) 13:01, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

From c class article to good article
A big part of good article status is the citations. Currently, the citations are a good bit of a mess. I would like fix that mess with shortened footnotes. Rather than having citations hidden in various places throughout the article, now the citations are all collected in references and only a tiny author, date, and page (if you need an exact page) are hidden in the article. Please chime in with your preference for the current or the proposed formatting. Abel (talk) 22:16, 11 November 2015 (UTC)


 * proposed I think having a tidy citation section is more critical for FA than GA, but my view is that the proposed formatting is a definite improvement.-- Mojo Hand (talk) 23:17, 11 November 2015 (UTC)


 * proposed I prefer the proposed formatting. --LilHelpa (talk) 04:26, 12 November 2015 (UTC)


 * proposed Agreed with both - I like the proposed formatting. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 06:22, 12 November 2015 (UTC)


 * proposed Yes, the new formatting is very neat, and will make it easier to add page numbers later. I recommend User:Gadget850/HarvErrors.js when working with shortened footnotes. When looking at the proposed formatting, that script tells me that "Gamble 1993" isn't linking properly to the reference "Gamble (1973)" - which year is correct? - and that the reference "Prats, J. J. (March 31, 2006)" isn't used. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:06, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for catching that! Looked at the old code and found that Langan b is supposed to be using the Prats citation. Once a consensus is reached, I'll go in and fix that mistake with . Thank you for mentioning my blunder, I would have never noticed that I messed up on the copying and pasting. 1973 is definitely the correct year for Gamble. Also have to wait for consensus, but can then just replace Gamble|1y=1993 with Gamble|1y=1973 . Thank you for so meticulously looking at the proposed change! Abel (talk) 13:20, 12 November 2015 (UTC)


 * proposed agree (an improvement) TEDickey (talk) 09:16, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

With more changes entering the history, meaning more changes would have to be recreated post style change, increasing the likelihood that I will make even more blunders, as well as all the comments here preferring the proposed over the current formatting, I am going to make the change to shortened footnotes and fix the to errors that John caught in addition to recreating the recent changes in the article history. Please let me know if I accidentally miss something. Abel (talk) 14:31, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Education of Francis Lightfoot Lee II
In taking a look at the shortened footnote change I happened to notice that there was a change in the section on Francis Lightfoot Lee II in terms of his education. One says Princeton and the other says Harvard.

So  this earlier version cites page 17 of Gamble 1973  and has:


 * The beneficiary of a stellar education at Phillips Academy and the College of New Jersey (now Princeton), as well as a scion of one of the most prominent families...

And so the current version as of this talk page edit cites page 146 of Alexander 1912 and has:


 * Francis Lightfoot Lee II attended Harvard University and graduated with an bachelor of arts degree[23] in 1802, then completed an master of arts degree[24] in 1806...

Is that because there is a discrepancy in the sources? Or maybe he was at both institutions for a period of time?

I noticed that because I wasn't sure what artium baccalaureus and artium magister meant when looking at the notes section. Seems like at Harvard A.B. is used instead of B.A. (and similarly A.M. instead of M.A.):

Bachelor of Arts

http://www.harvard.edu/on-campus/commencement/degree-abbreviations
 * Yes, for some reason Harvard insists on using the Latin names and so they have the initials "backwards" from what everyone else uses. It seems like a lot of the article, in the past, plagiarized Gamble and I am working to change that. Abel (talk) 15:13, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I think you are onto something. I may have gotten Francis Lightfoot Lee II and Francis Lightfoot Lee I mixed up. Abel (talk) 15:23, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Put both back as Gamble p55 definitely has Phillips Academy, but the only mention of College of New Jersey that I can see is about F.L.'s older brother Cassius attending and not F.L. himself. Abel (talk) 15:47, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Just found "Cornelia's first cousin, Francis Lightfoot Lee II, an M.A. of Harvard College and a lawyer in Alexandria." So now it is starting to look like Phillips Academy and Harvard are accurate, but College of New Jersey (Princeton) is not.


 * Wow this is complicated. So Harvard A. B. and A. M. is correct, but you can only see it in a scan of the original book not the modern reprints. So now the citation is ridiculously complex but it has a ref supporting the family calling Francis Lightfoot Lee II F. L., the Gamble claim of Phillips Academy, and the multiple claims that support the Harvard degrees (so I did not mix up the two Francis Lightfoots and the College of New Jersey (Princeton) in Gamble really was about Cassius and not F. L. Abel (talk) 16:36, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * A big thank you to for pointing out how these details needed attention.

The only source I can access readily is Alexander 1912, but as far as I could tell it makes sense and it consistent. So it was his brother Cassius who went to College of New Jersey (Princeton), while Francis Lightfoot Lee II attended Philips Academy and Harvard. Glad that that was helpful. Jjjjjjjjjj (talk) 05:30, 8 December 2015 (UTC)