Talk:Sultan bin Abdulaziz/Archive 1

Untitled
According to the manual of style, we don't put personal titles (such as "Prince") in article titles. Because of this, I'm moving the article back. – Quadell (talk) (sleuth) 12:33, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

-- Actually, "Crown Prince" is not a title, it is an office. In this case it is different from "Prince" as a title. 93.80.223.2 (talk) 05:48, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Dying?
According to Udo Ulfkotte, he's dying. Of course, anything that Ulfkotte publishes through that particular outlet needs to be closely scrutinized, but still, the matter-of-factly tone is different from his usual vitriolic drivel. But for example Line of succession to the Saudi Arabian Throne does not square with Ulfkotte's claim that Naif bin Abdul Aziz would be Sultan's successor. Nonwithstanding that Naif would certainly like to be crown prince, it sems more like wishful thinking by Ulfkotte, who has grown too close to Wahhabi-cospiracy theorism to be believed w/o double-checking. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 20:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

UPI has picked up the story, but their report seems to come from DEBKAfile  (the articles are very similar) so I'm not convinced. The link to Udo Ulfkotte's article is a 404, but I'd be interested to see how similar the DEBKAfile article is to his. SirBob42 (talk) 19:50, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

-- No, he is not dying! He will be King! 93.80.223.2 (talk) 05:52, 1 September 2009 (UTC)


 * There's only one King. Elvisu Akbar! 69.161.3.135 (talk) 21:58, 23 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, if he was dying back in 2008, he's dying a long death. Againme (talk) 17:47, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

NPOV
What is this? "Corruption this, corruption that, corruption, corruption, corruption"? Half the article - corruption. This is not NPOV. Why do you like so much to count money in other peoples's pockets? If this is not going to be fixed or a lot of good interesting information added, I will remove half the article with "corruption". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.80.223.2 (talk) 05:56, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

This problem has been fixed a long time ago. Mni9791 (talk) 05:13, 21 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Uhh, perhaps if Saudi Arabia wasn't one of the most corrupt nations on Earth, there would be more positive information to include.1812ahill (talk) 14:59, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Birth year of His Royal Highness
Can you also be more sure on his birth year? In the infobox it is written 1928, in the first sentence it is stated 1924. No one can tell anybody, that he came out of the womb twice... --112.205.7.91 (talk) 02:50, 12 February 2011 (UTC)


 * the explanation for his multiple birth years is explained in the first paragraph of the first section. saudi royalty birthdays are notoriously inaccurate. however, through documentation through diplomats and the policyfoucs96 paper, we have a more accurate picture of saudi royalty birthdays. i have indicated in the infobox that that birthday is the official one. (Mni9791 (talk) 05:43, 12 February 2011 (UTC))


 * At least until the first half of the 20th century (Christian Gregorian calendar system) it might have been inaccurate. At that time in many parts of the world, most births haven't been recorded duly, especially in African and Asian areas. Haven't considered that... --112.205.7.91 (talk) 06:59, 12 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Why not change his birthyear to the 1924 one. It would make his other early activities seem more plausible, as I doubt he would have been doing the ARAMCO thing in 1947 at the age of 17, or been governor of Riyadh at the same age, given his official birthyear of 1930.1812ahill (talk) 14:56, 22 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Can I just say I object to the wording of this: His birthdate is ... although Western sources say that it's something else. I mean, what? It seems as though the writer is saying that the WHOLE of the Western world thinks that it's 1924, and that it's a West-vs-non-West divide. Why does the fact that it's Western have to be mentioned at all? To say it's American is factual; to say it's Western gives a value judgement about ideologies. (And readers might expect the implication to be that the 1924 date is wrong because it's Western, and 'of course a local source would know better, so the Westerners are probably wrong'.) Also, I think that having two dates for his birth is confusing for the reader, and there should be an explanation in the article that says that dates of birth from this period are uncertain. 64.229.100.146 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:57, 23 October 2011 (UTC).


 * Having two birth dates is extremely confusing to the reader. Could somebody please fix this once and for all? The reference says 1930. Since 1924 is not cited, can we remove it for now? I don't want to see two birth years unless two reputable sources disagree, and even then a little explanation (or a footnote) should be in the lede. &mdash;voidxor (talk &#124; contrib) 07:06, 23 October 2011 (UTC)


 * 1930 has no credibility as anything but government propaganda intended to make him seem "not too old".You'll find only earlier years elsewhere (including other Wikipedia articles).Robert Lacey's THE KINGDOM says 1927 and Simon Henderson insists on 1924,both well-known sources.The current text treats 1930 as unchallenged when to serious analysts it's laughable.--L.E./12.144.5.2 (talk) 20:16, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

No daughters?
Just askin'... Orbst (talk) 04:06, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Silly Westerner. Every Muslim knows they don't count. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.235.73.234 (talk) 16:14, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Surpriiiiiiise: he has daughters, and they have been counted. say Woooow!! محمد المحارب (talk) 19:12, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Death
Still somewhat unconfirmed. http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-crown-prince-dies-report-041131052.html --Cabazap (talk) 04:36, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Date of death
According to the Saudi royal court, he died "outside the kingdom" at "dawn" on Saturday morning. The statement does not specify whether it was Saturday morning in Saudi Arabia or somewhere else. If he died in New York, as the media speculates, then this could mean either October 21 or 22, as there is a seven-hour difference between New York and Riyadh. Pristino (talk) 05:27, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

FWIW, I became aware of his death through the media and made my |first revision at 23:17 PST on 21 October. That is already the 22nd in EST. However, if the report is that he died at "dawn", that must have been the morning of the 21st, because as of right now the sun has not yet come up on the east coast on the 22nd. --Replysixty (talk) 08:35, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

According to CNN, Sultan bin Abdul-Aziz Al Saud died "in New York early Saturday." –Randor1980 (talk) 12:15, 22 October 2011 (UTC)


 * What I read said he died in NYC, but it was early saturday saudi time. That likely means late Friday in New York, so technically he would have died late friday, but it should be clearer before long. No need to change it yet. Hazydan (talk) 15:23, 22 October 2011 (UTC)


 * It is indeed possible that when Sultan died it was "dawn" on Saturday in Riyadh and late on Friday in New York. However, many news agencies cite "[early] Saturday in New York" as the time of death, including this one from The Wall Street Journal. It is also possible that Sultan died around 12:00 a.m. on Saturday New York time at the earliest. –Randor1980 (talk) 07:17, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

So, which is it? 21 or 22? Pristino (talk) 04:10, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

This is incredibly stupid, the double alternative dates for DOB and DOD make the page look a mess. Wikipedia is supposed to be a site of information, and just like we take Saddam Hussein's official birth date - 28 April 1937 - as the operative date, (while mentioning in the endnotes that the date is in fact in dispute) we should do the same with the Saudi Crown Prince. His official DOB is 30 December 1930 (http://www.saudiembassy.net/about/SultanbinAbdulaziz.aspx). His official death date 22 October 2011 (http://www.saudiembassy.net/latest_news/news10221101.aspx). That should do for this article. Controversies can be explained with footnotes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.63.174 (talk) 15:06, 23 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, I agree completely. –Randor1980 (talk) 15:42, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Place of treatment?
Why don't they release his hospital's name? Since he had cancer, and he went to NYC, the odds are he went to the world leader in cancer treatment, Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. My family members were treated there. Any information? Profhum (talk) 05:28, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Excuse me
Didn't this guy make a law saying it's okay for women to vote? B-Machine (talk) 16:23, 23 October 2011 (UTC) Hi,

Title
Is the title of the article proper? Because Nayef bin Abdulaziz has been the crown prince of Saudi Arabia since October 2011. I think it should be modefied. Thanks,Egeymi (talk) 08:09, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Title has been changed, since Crown Prince Nayef also died.Egeymi (talk) 16:06, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

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Move discussion in progress
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Move discussion in progress
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