Talk:Summer Jam at Watkins Glen

Live recordings questions
I question the validity of this fact:

The Band - Live at Watkins Glen (Audio-CD, released 1995). This release is mostly comprised of studio takes with overdubbed audience sounds.

Listening to this disc as we speak ... liner notes claim it is in fact "drawn from the most complete available tape of the Band's Watkins Glen performance." Anyone aware of evidence to the contrary? [11:58, 28 July 2006 216.24.56.161]


 * I don't know, but you should make your argument on Talk:Live at Watkins Glen. Wasted Time R 13:50, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Watkins Glen (6 CD-Box with The Band, The Grateful Dead, and The Allman Brothers Band)

Does this box set really exist? I couldn't find anything about it on the web and there's no information on year or publisher either. Is this a bootleg maybe? Sorry, it seems that the link where i have found this information is no more online. --Melly42 11:29, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Other thoughts on 'Summer Jam'...
I arrived on the Wednesday prior to the scheduled start, the traffic was already getting heavy some miles from Corning. We were glad that we found a spot near where they were setting up a food concession, bathrooms were also nearby as was a spigot for fresh water (or so we thought). The story on the month-long 'runs' will come later.

No sooner had we six piled (Debbie Zigon, Diane Porzio, and ???) out of the car, when we were offered a bowl of DMT. So started a magical five day trip-fest, all free and probably the last of its kind. This has always struck me as somewhat significant. I think that we all felt that the world was changed, and perhaps this weekend of over-indulgence was our last chance to grasp that psychedelic, day-glo brass ring on the merry-go-round that was the autumn of our collective dream of peace, love, rebellion and Woodstock Nation.

Already, the parking fields held a smattering of Caddies and Winnebagos that would have seemed so out place just a couple of years ago.

-- from Ppetrel: Ha ha I was also there with Henry, Steve and ???, who piled out of my car the night before the concert. I brought a 15 x 15 foot tarp for our sleeping bags, and when it rained, we were dry and 20 feet from the stage. We drove from Bristol CT in a 1967 250SE Benz. At one point there was a very narrow portion of the road, requiring all cars to slow down, with two cops peering into each car as it passed. We had the presence of mind not to have an baggies in plain view. LOL Ppetrel (talk) 10:17, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Long quote from "Aquarius Rising" by Robert Santelli
What is the Wikipedia protocol for long quotes? I don't want to cheat Mr. Santelli of his due. The best I could "due" was footnote the link.

Largest Gig Claim
It claims in the article to be the largest gig in history until it was later superceded, yet the largest ever gig according to the guiness bock of records is the isle of wight festival 3 years previously. Can this claim be verified? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.143.134.105 (talk) 10:40, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I recommend you to go into your next library and study the Guinness Book of World Records (from 1980 to 2007). BTW At the Isle of White Festival were only 400.000 people. --Melly42 13:56, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Categories for performers
The categories "Allman Brothers", "The Band", and "Grateful Dead" have been removed several times lately, with edit summaries such as "We do not categorize performances by performer... please read WP:OC". However, Overcategorization recommends against the creation of *categories* of performers by performance. For example, we should not create a category of "Rock bands that performed at Watkins Glen". There is no recommendation against adding an performer category to an article about a performance. — Mudwater (Talk) 11:28, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You do not understand the guideline. We would not create a category along the lines of Category:Tonight Show musical guests because that would be performer by venue. Therefore, we would not categorize a Tonight Show musical guest in Category:Tonight Show either because it is an end run around the consensus against such categorization. You are correct that we would not create Category:Bands that performed at Watkins Glen. Categorizing this article in the band categories is exactly the same end run around consensus. Otto4711 (talk) 16:31, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm looking at WP:OC, and the guidelines are about the creation of extraneous categories. At the beginning, it says, "... not every verifiable fact (or the intersection of two or more such facts) in an article requires an associated category.... Such overcategorization is also known as 'category clutter'.... To address these concerns, this page lists types of categories that should generally be avoided."  In particular, WP:OC is recommending against creating categories like " Rock bands that performed at Watkins Glen".  I don't see anything at all recommending against using performer categories on venue articles.  In this particular case it would be appropriate to have the three band categories, because the article discusses the bands at some length.  (The Tonight Show musical guest should only be a category on the Tonight Show article if they are discussed in the article to a significant degree.)  However, you are referring to "the consensus against such categorization".  If you could provide link(s) to the discussion section or sections at which such a consensus was reached, that would be very helpful.  Thanks.  — Mudwater (Talk) 19:29, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I've removed the performer categories from this article as we don't have similar categories in other concert articles (e.g. the category The Who for the Woodstock article). --Melly42 (talk) 20:06, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * On this last, I'd argue the situation is different from Woodstock and other festivals that had dozens of musical artists performing. Here, the event was explicitly billed as a concert by three big-name acts.  It was really more a joint Allmans-Band-Dead concert than a conventional festival.  Thus I think including this in the band's categories make sense.  Wasted Time R (talk) 20:46, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Largest Gig Ever
What would that be? It might be interesting to mention it, or at the very least to indicate which one superseded this (when and how many ppl).--SidiLemine 09:28, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think this would be interesting for an seperate list but not here in this article. I think the first person who superseded this concert was Rod Stewart in Rio De Janeiro in 1994 with an audiance of 3.5 Million people or take the Live 8 Gig in Philadelpha in 2005 with 1 Million people --Melly42 (talk) 10:08, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Pirate Radio Station Mention Deletion
The reason why the reference to Concert Free Radio was deleted is listed as: "Deleted per Wikipedia guidelines minor, uncited, anecdotal pop culture account of pirate radio station not germane to the main article."

Rather than an account of "anecdotal pop culture" I maintain the the inclusion of the radio station at the Summer Jam is important for several reasons:

In the second paragraph of the article the difficulty of getting sound to the entire audience is mentioned, as is the dozen sound towers used for this purpose. The radio station was a part of this distribution system as it extended the "sound" for miles in all directions.

I have never been able to find a single account of a pirate station being operated at a concert which by itself makes it worthy of inclusion.

The fact that the station was sanctioned by and utilized by members of the band, by Ron Winkersham, the Dead's soundman, and by promoter Billy Graham is also notable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lukifer (talk • contribs) 17:40, 2 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It seems relevant to me. Can it be re-added, but with one or more references? — Mudwater (Talk) 04:34, 3 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed, relevant if sourced. Wasted Time R (talk) 04:42, 3 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I found support for some of the pirate radio text (see this Google Books excerpt) and so I've added the text back, indicating what is supported and what needs further citing. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:18, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Bad Link
Link #1 under "References" is no longer valid. Kakashi64 (talk) 14:05, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

History - Sound Check
The narrative makes it sound like the sound check was on the 27th. Of course, it occurred the day before the concert itself, and became a 6 hour concert of its own. Slofstra (talk) 04:09, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Legalities
I've read that after Woodstock the State of New York passed a law regulating any future concerts, effectively preventing them. There were requirements such as fences & enough toilets that were quite difficult to meet, prohibitively expensive for many locations. Watkins Glen, though, was a Grand Prix race track, already set up to handle large crowds, so it was possible there.

If this is true & can be sourced, then it should likely be added.

Also, did the State change those laws after Watkins Glen? Pashley (talk) 10:52, 29 May 2021 (UTC)