Talk:Sun Salutation/Archive 1

Sanskrit transliteration
Calling for help from someone knowledgeable in Sanskrit to review the words in this article and make any necessary edits. I have kept the macrons in words (thus indicating long vowels) where I have found them in other sources. I am also unsure whether it is better to use namaskara or namaskar. If you are knowledgeable in both Sanskrit and IPA it would be great if exact pronunciation guides could be added in IPA or SAMPA. Oska 03:32, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)
 * The final a in नमस्कार namaskāra (Sanskrit transliteration) is dropped in most New Indo-Aryan (NIA) languages, hence a pronunciation closer to /namaskaːr/. I'm afraid a phonetic transcription would confuse more than it would help, since the pronunciation differs quite much in different Indian language varieties. Since the transliteration is quite phonemic in itself I suggest that the transliterations will do, and interested could look up the transliteration method to see how it should/can be pronunced… I propose we use the 'common' transliterations in the text and on respective āsana's page we could add both the nāgarī as well as the transliteration.
 * Kess 14:13, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
 * IPA pronunciation guide added based on this discussion in a linguistics online forum.
 * 118.208.120.101 (talk) 23:04, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Whether this should be under Hinduism
i have placed this article under wikiproject hinduism.--Jayanthv86 18:23, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * (My intention is not to start a edit war or such, I just wish to know how others see this.) Short version: there are different opinions whether yoga should be accounted for in Hinduism or not. I would like to hear opinions if yoga articles should fall under Hinduism alone, both Hinduism and something other, or another cathegorisation altogether.
 * Kess 14:13, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

My opinion is that Yoga is a separate subject than any one religion. It's interesting that this article doesn't even mention Yoga, yet it is as a physical-spiritual Yoga technique that most people will encounter the Sun Salutation; I don't view it as a form of "sun worship" at all, so I think there needs to be some separation between the origins of the practice and its usage today. Maybe then we can remove the stub status. -- Ben —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.169.15.38 (talk) 11:19, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

It is rather sad that Hinduism is considered a religion. 'Hindu' was the name given to the people residing near the river Sindu (at the time of Indus Valley Civilization) by the Greeks as they had difficulty pronoucing sindu. Those people(residing near Sindu)'s practices for physical, mental, and spiritual well-being are now considered Hinduism. Those people themselves used to call their practices as 'Sanatan Dharma' of which a poor translation would be Eternal Religion and the poorest would be 'Hinduism'. Sanatan means eternal but Dharma isn't a religion, it is righteous discharging of one's duties (e.g. For a fisherman, catching fish is his dharma but catching them for sports is not a dharma). What is righteous and what is not would often be questioned by people of other belief system and hence all these religions and fights among them. Since the saga of being mis-represented (for Hinduism) is in the root itself, it wouldn't and shouldn't matter for the branches (i.e. Yoga being a part of the practices ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.83.10.20 (talk) 22:11, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Ambiguous reference for Surya Namaskar being a 20th century invention
The article claims that Surya Namaskar is a 20th century invention and cites a book by Raja of Aundh . The book is an exposition of the Surya Namskars. At no point does the book's author claim invention of Surya Namaskars. This paragraph needs to be removed pending a more reliable reference. Ikshatriya 17:36, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Incomplete views on the origins of Surya Namaskar
I agree with Ikshatriya, the origins of Surya Namaskar I believe are not stated properly. Please also refer to the article "Surya Namaskara Chapter" on Wiki itself for some of the origins of Surya Namaskar. I am collecting necessary references to correct this article.--Khammam 01:28, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Reasons for the revert
The article was changed by i.p 216.208.254.118 without discussion. I request the person to please explain the reason for removing an important sentence without discussion. Till that time, I as the author of that section of the article will keep reverting to the older version. --Khammam 18:27, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * While I agree some discussion is needed on this before starting a stupid edit war, the sentence in question is a very big claim that needs a concrete citation from a reliable published source. If one cannot be provided, then I will be removing it. Taking possession of popularizing the Sun Salutation is something that needs sourcing. VanTucky 22:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Please read the references provided in the article "Surya Namaskar Origins". There is a section on Raja of Aundh with published references. Further, if you look at the older version of this article, it states that Raja of Aundh actually invented it. To clear the air on it I added this sentence. If you want me to add the references given in the Origins article here, I will be happy to do so. Hope this is sufficient. If you still feel that this sentence needs to be restated in this article, I invite you to rewrite the sentence instead of totally removing it.--Khammam 03:34, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Please read WP:CITE which explains how to source things. The material you re-added is not supported by inline citations, so it can be removed as unsourced.  Just referring to a book or teacher is not a verifiable reference.  Also, books must meet the test of being a WP:RS.  Just because someone publishes a book, it may or may not qualify as a WP:RS.  For content disputes, one way to work them out is to begin by discussing what sources are being used, and if they are considered acceptable WP:RS or not.  Currently the article is so poorly cited it is impossible to tell what the sources are, or what comes from which source.
 * The references for this article must appear here, by the way. Please do not refer me to a different article.  And Wikipedia articles themselves are not usable as WP:RS, of course. Buddhipriya 08:54, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Linkspam
I have removed linkspam from the Surya Namaskara article because the site cites no reliable sources:. Please review WP:EL for policy on external links. Wikipedia is not a directory of links, and sites must qualify as WP:RS for such links. Buddhipriya 08:19, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The user has restored the spam links with no dicussion. I have removed them once again and call for compliance with WP:SPAM, WP:EL, and WP:RS.  Material that is unsourced may be removed at any time. Buddhipriya 22:09, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Agreed that several of the links technically constitute linkspam per WP:El. VanTucky (talk) 22:13, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Image removal
I removed the images in the gallery, as, without continuity, they are seemingly random, and orovide no instructional value. In addition, the upward dog presented by the Diamond whatevr Society, in addition to being promotional, and therefore spam, was just horrid. --69.177.190.140 01:15, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree about the gallery, but WP:MOS requires that we have a lead image situated to the right if one is available. Feel free to choose another image, perhaps from the deleted gallery or Wikimedia Commons. But please make sure that we comply with the Manual of Style when possible. Van Tucky  Talk 01:19, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice choice. --69.177.190.140 01:26, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Van Tucky  Talk 01:27, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

split table
I have split the table as it is misleading. Those mantras are pronounced at start of each cycle, not that they are pronounced during corresponding asanas. Now.nupe (talk) 06:02, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Forward bend
Why are positions 3 and 10 in the series summary (forward bend) referred to by those two different names? Ohconfucius (talk) 05:46, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The names are misleading. Poses in general may have different names under different gurus.  However they should be consistent here and cited.  Jcline0 (talk) 03:08, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Wrong information under 'Series summary'
The names of the poses in the series are incorrect and the translations are misleading. It is true that the sanskrit has multiple translations, and the same pose can be called by different names, however as stated they are not helpful to the reader due to this confusion. Take a popular source such as Yoga Journal, and compare to the poses shown vs. the descriptions of the series; the article's "dandasana" is wrong, for example.

The correct names should be something similar to (as used in current Hatha or ashtanga or many other lineages today):

1 - Tadasana; standing pose, mountain pose or sometimes called prayer pose if palms are together

2 - Hasta Uttanasana; upward hands pose

3 - Uttanasana; intense forward pose

4 - (no sanskrit name is common); high lunge on right leg

5 - chatarunga; four limb pose, commonly called plank pose

6 - Chatarunga dandasana; four limbed stick pose  (danda is staff or stick, and using staff here is confusing for the reader who may assume dandasana is similar, whereas dandansana is a seated pose)

7 - Bhujangasana; cobra pose

8 - Adho Mukha Svanasana; downward facing dog

9 - (no sanskrit name is common); high lunge on right leg

10 - Uttanasana; intense forward pose

11 - Hasta Uttanasana; upward hands pose

12 - Tadasana (see 1 above)

If there is no disagreement to the above I will make edits in the coming months to correct the sequence. Jcline0 (talk) 06:08, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems these were not changed... I will be making similar changes to update this portion of the article in a coming update.
 * Supaiku (talk) 11:19, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Scientific studies?
This article needs a section on the scientific studies done on the health benefits os Surya namaskar. - 24.86.3.114 (talk) 16:29, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Do scientific studies exist?
 * I'll be updating the article and be sure to include any information from reliable sources I find about the physical/mental effects of physical activity and meditation. I will also link to specific asanas in the article which will include similar information relating to individual asanas.
 * Supaiku (talk) 11:22, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Varying linages, varying practices
Just as different gurus attribute different names to the same poses, every school of yoga has its own version of Surya Namaskara. This article only shows one. It's great to have a sequence posted here, but it's not the only sequence that people practice as Surya Namaskara. Perhaps this could be expanded into a table, showing what Sun Salutations look like in varying traditions. Morganfitzp (talk) 21:26, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

The controversy of whether Surya Namaskara is a 20th century invention needs mention
In comments above, it is mentioned that a section claiming Surya Namaskara is a 20th century invention have been deleted due to ambiguous references. This is unfortunate. I do not have a reference handy, but I have strong reasons to believe that this is the case. Until a good reference is found, it cannot be stated in the article as a fact, but it is bad practice not to mention this controversy. Thomas Tvileren (talk) 01:38, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Archive of text removed for badly cited information
The following is content removed from the previous Surya Namaskara and Surya Namaskara Origins pages with reasons for removal:

Introduction
The physical base of the practice links together twelve asanas' in a dynamically performed vinyasa which is often included in a series. Sūrya Namaskāra is usually found at the beginning of a yoga series to prepare the body for further practice. The asanas are ordered so that they alternately stretch the spine backwards and forwards. When performed in the usual way, each asana is moved into with alternate inhalation and exhalation (except for the sixth asana where the breath is held in external suspension). A full round of Surya namaskara is considered to be two sets of the twelve poses with a change in the second set to moving the opposite leg first through the series.

Origins
Surya Namaskar is a Yoga series.

Introduction
Some proponents of the use of Surya namaskara as part of the modern yoga tradition prefer to perform it at sunrise, which the orthodox consider to be the most 'spiritually favorable' time of the day.Citation Needed

Introduction
The practice supports development of the koshas, or temporal sheaths, of the subtle body.

Vedas
There are numerous references to praising the Sun to enhance good health and prosperity, in the Vedas. Some of these Vedic hymns were incorporated into Nitya Vidhi (Daily mandatory routine for a Hindu). These daily procedures were termed Surya Namaskara (literally translates as "sun salutations"). The forms of Surya Namaskar practiced vary from region to region. Two such popular practices are Trucha Kapla Namaskarah and Aditya Prasna.

Word by word translation of dhyana Mantra
Savitrumandala-Madhyavartee - He who lives in the centre of the solar orb.

Sarasijaasana Sannivishtah - Who sits in Padmaasana

Keyuravaan Makara Kundalavaan Kireetee Haaree - Who has the bracelets, the big ear-rings in the ear, the crown on the head and the pearl garland dangling on the breast.

Dhrita-Sankha-Chakrah - Holder of Conch and Chakra (discuss).

Hiranmayavapuh - Golden-hued body.

Narayanah - Narayana

Sadaa Dhyeyah - Always to be meditated.

Reference: http://www.hindubooks.org/sandhyavandanam/suryanarayanavandanam/index.htm

Transliteration of the three ruchas
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Reference: http://www.sanskritweb.org/rigveda/rv01.pdf

Translation of the three ruchas
Book – 1, HYMN L.

11 Rising this day, O rich in friends, ascending to the loftier heaven,

Surya remove my heart's disease, take from me this my yellow hue.

12 To parrots and to starlings let us give away my yellowness,

Or this my yellowness let us transfer to Haritala trees.

13 With all his conquering vigour this Aditya hath gone up on high,

Giving my foe into mine hand: let me not be my foeman's prey.

Reference: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv01050.htm

dhyāna mantra
Then dhyāna mantra is recited / chanted.

Verse:

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Meaning:

“Always worship ‘The Sun’ (our energy source) sitting at the centre of the solar system (savitra mamdal madhyavarti) on Lotus, wearing Keyoor, Makarkundal crown and holding conch, chakra and having glittering golden body.”

The above mantras relationship to Sun Salutations is uncited. Despite their being related to the Sun, it is unclear that they are related to the Surya Namaskara this article refers to.

sūrya namaskār mantra
After dhyāna mantra, Surya Namaskars are performed by chanting mantras. Mantras are arranged in a specific way. They consist of the three ruchas taken from 1st Mandala, 9th anuvak 50th Sookta in Rig Veda, which are composed in ‘Anushtup Chandas ’. Kanva Sage [Rushi] is believed to have composed them.

Meaning of the three ruchas:

“O, radiant Sun rising in the sky, please destroy the disease in my heart as well as diseases of my external body. Let inner and outer diseases of my body be destroyed by brilliantly shining Sun-the son of Aditi.”

Nama mantra of the Surya Namaskar have four sections:
 * 1) Pranavakshar (Aum)
 * 2) Beejakshara
 * 3) paada from the three ruchas described above
 * 4) Name of ‘The Sun’.

In total 6 beejakshara, 12 paada (4 paada for each of the 3 ruchas) and 12 names of Surya are used in the creation of nama mantras. The six beejaksharas in the order of their usage are,. The 12 paada are explained in detail in the glossary. The 12 names of ‘The Sun’ in the order of their usage are “Mitra, Ravi, Surya, Bhanu, Khaga, Pushan, Hiranyagarbha, Marichiman, Aditya, Savitr, Arka, Bhaskara”.

The mantra, start with short arrangements of the words at the beginning of the worship and evolve into more complex structures near the end. The mantra for the ease of discussion can be classified into four steps.

Step 1:

"Aum + 1 Beejaksharam + 1 rucha + 1 Beejaksharam + Aum + 1 Name of Sun"

Example Mantra:

1) || 2)  ||

12 mantra, formed using the 12 paada of the ruchas, are chanted / recited at this step. As there are only 6 beejakshara, for the seventh mantra the first beejakshara is used and the order is repeated up to the 12th mantra. For each mantra one surya namaskar is performed.

Step 2:

"Aum + 2 Beejakshara + 2 paada + 2 Beejakshara + Aum + 2 Names of Sun"

Example Mantra:

" ||".

6 mantras are chanted / recited at this step as there are 12 paadas. For each mantra one surya namaskar is performed.

Step 3:

"Aum + 4 Beejakshara + 4 paada + 4 Beejakshara + Aum + 4 Names of Sun"

3 mantras are chanted / recited at this stage. For each mantra one surya namaskar is performed.

Step 4:

"Aum + All Beejakshara + All paadas + All Beejakshara + Aum + All Names of Sun"

1 mantra is chanted / recited at this step. One Surya Namaskar is performed at this step.

Thus after all the four steps, 22 mantras are chanted / recited and with each mantra one Surya Namaskar is performed. When this cycle is repeated three times, 66 Surya Namaskars are performed. This way ONE Trucha Kalpa Namaskar is completed.

Teertha Shloka
In the end, Teertha Shloka is chanted / recited.

Verse:

" |

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Meaning:

“Those who perform Soorya Namaskars daily, do not face poverty in life [this actually relates to Richness of Health, not financial matters], one does not face early death or suffer from diseases. Drink the water kept before The Sun".

Aditya Prasna
The verses used in Aditya Prasna are taken from the first chapter of "Yajur Veda, Taittiriya Aranyakam"<ref which is also referred to as Surya namaskara chapter. It is popularly practiced in South India. There are 132 anuvaks in this chapter and it is a practice to recite perform sun salutations with prostrations after recitation of every anuvak.

Puranic origins
Aditya Hridayam is another ancient practice which involves surya namaskar. It is a procedure of saluting The Sun, taught to Sri Rama by Sage Agastya, before his fight with Ravana. It is described in the "Yuddha Khanda" Canto 107 of Ramayana.

There are in total 124 names praising the Sun in the whole procedure. The names in verses 10 - 13 are given below:

" Aditya, Savita, Surya, Khaga, Pushan, Gabhastiman, Suvarnasadrisa, Bhanu, Hiranyaretas, Divakara, Haridasva, Sahasrarchish, Saptasapti, Marichiman, Timironmathana, Sambhu, Twashta, Martanda, Ansuman, Hiranyagarbha, Sisira, Tapana, Bhaskara, Ravi, Agnigarbha, Aditiputra, Sankha, Sisiranasana ".

The names in bold are the names used in the present day popular Surya Namaskar are present in these four verses.

In 15 - 20 verses, salutations to Sun are described. An example from the 15th verse is: "the resplendent among the splendid. Oh! God, appearing in twelve forms (in the shape of twelve months of the year) salutations to you".

English Publications
The existence of procedures of sun salutations for health in ancient India are not confined to Hindu texts and literature written by Hindu scholars. Early English publications record some of the ancient ways of sun salutation. In "A Catalogue raisonnée of oriental manuscripts". (Year: 1860, Page 246) Rev. William Cooke Taylor, noted that a short book with 71 leaves with "Tricha calpa vidhi" from "Aditya Puranam" was preserved. He describes the vidhi as "Modes of rendering homage to Sun, with praise and spells; the object being health or delivery from disease". He further notes the presence of Arghya Pradana, Surya Stotaram, Aditya dvadasa namam - 12 names of the Sun according to the monthly signs of zodiac, Surya Narayana cavacham, Saurashtacshari mantram, and many other elaborate rituals as the part of the vidhi. In Page 148 of the same book he describes a shorter version called "Laghu tricha kalpa vidhi".

"Surya Namaskars: An Ancient Indian Exercise" by Apa Pant (son of HH Meherban Shrimant Raja BHAVAN RAO SHRINIVAS 'BALA SAHIB', Pant Pratinidhi of Aundh—see below)

Physical Excercise/History/Origions
Most of the aasanas in the procedure themselves have documented in old literature.

"Sashtang dandavat", which is the central aasana of the surya namaskar, was followed from time immemorial in India as a form of showing respect and complete surrender to God. "Bhujangasana" was described as one of the 32 important aasanas in "Gheranda Samhita" (dated around 1802 A.D.) which describes the yoga prevalent in north-east India.

Vedic origins
There are numerous references of praising the Sun for the purpose of good health and prosperity, in Vedas. Some of these Vedic hymns were incorporated into Nitya Vidhi (Daily mandatory routine for a Hindu) for the well being of an individual, through salutations to the Sun. These daily procedures were then termed as Sūrya Namaskāra (lit. "sun salutations"). Physical prostration to Sun, showing complete surrender of oneself to God, is the main aspect of these procedures. The forms of Surya Namaskar practiced vary from region to region. Two such popular practices are Trucha Kalpa Namaskarah and  Aditya Prasna.

= Tricha Kalpa Namaskarah
= Trucha Kalpa Namaskarah has its origins in Rig Veda. Each Mantra in Veda is called a Richa, and a group of three rucha is called as Tricha; thus “Tricha Kalpa Namaskarah” is a method of performing Surya Namaskar using three richas from the Veda.

= Sankalp
= You make a resolution Sankalp in the beginning, that you are doing this act of performing ‘sūrya namaskār’ by praying to the Sun, requesting him to give you good health and strength to work hard.

From "See Also"

 * Surya Namaskar Origins The article was re-written and included in this Surya Namaskara Article.

Supaiku (talk) 09:24, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

I removed this section because it does not belong here on the article's talk page. The information can still be accessed by viewing the article's history. Morganfitzp (talk) 23:41, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Pose discrepancy
The picture posted beside Bhujangasana is actually Urdhva Mukha Svanasana. Morganfitzp (talk) 16:23, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Are you looking at just the file name?Curb Chain (talk) 18:45, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The file name, and his hips, which are off the floor. Morganfitzp (talk) 18:59, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought either asana could be used.Curb Chain (talk) 19:07, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, people practice both Bhujagasana or Urdhva Mukha Svanasana in Surya Namaskar, but the photo here for "Bhujangasana" is actually Urdhva Mukha Svanasana. Morganfitzp (talk) 23:37, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Why not include both names and both photos?Curb Chain (talk) 21:51, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, we could include variations for this pose in the sequence of this Surya Namaskar, and then we could also do the same for any pose: Tadasana with hands in Anjali Mudra or arms by the side; Lunges with knee up/knee down, and/or arms up/arms down; Ashtanga Namaskara or Chaturunga Dandasana; and so on. The article could also chart the difference between its current version of Surya Namaskara and those practiced in other lineages—e.g. Anshtanga Vinyasa Yoga Surya Namaskar A (no lunges whatsoever) and Surya Namaskar B (with Utkatasana, Virabhadrasana I and three Adho/Urdvha Mukha Svanasanas per cycle]]).  There are also many versions of Surya Namaskar that fall outside of standard yoga schools and systems, practiced by farmers and religioud pilgrims.  Could make for a longer, more thorough article.  Morganfitzp (talk) 03:16, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
 * We could discuss them. Use the offical pictures and names, and thus asanas for "Surya Namaskar" (not "Surya Namaskar A" or others) and make the articles for the other sequences because although they are variations, they are notable.Curb Chain (talk) 04:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Isn't what we have now Surya Namaskar A? Or Surya Namsakara A?Curb Chain (talk) 22:13, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

I see that a picture of a different yogi practicing Bhujangasana has been replaced the former image of Urdhva Mukha Svanasana. The two poses are very similar and are often used interchangeably. The article reads best when the photos are consistent (same yogi in different poses), since this is an asana series. The discrepancy can be remedied by just noting that the pose pictured is actually Upward Facing Dog, not Cobra. Morganfitzp (talk) 20:08, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * No that wouldn't improve the article. Which picture do you want, really?  The one before, the now, or the one on Urdhva Mukha Svanasana?Curb Chain (talk) 23:31, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose that Surya Namaskar Origins be merged into Surya Namaskara. I think that the content in the "Origins" article can easily be explained in the context of Surya Namaskara, and the Surya Namaskara article can be condensed to a reasonable size that the merging will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. Morganfitzp (talk) 18:42, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I support this request. NordhornerII (talk)I am not a number! I am a Nordhorner. 13:34, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Support: I agree that there no need for a separate Surya Namaskar Origins article. Ken fyre  (talk) 05:12, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No! Not Supported Surya Namaskar Origins should be eliminated altogether. It is a reactionary piece, a bit of propaganda really, whose whole purpose seems to be to counter the proposal that Suryanamaskar is of modern origin. It would be better titled as "Indian Sun-Worshiping Origins" or possibly "Hindu Sun-Worshipping Origins". It has very little to do with modern yoga, or more precisely, International Anglophone Postural Yoga exercise, which is what is described in this aricle. There is no solid scholarship on how these "origins" connect to the modern practice. Until there is citation of historical evidence specifically listing the connections between the exercises coming from Mysore Palace and ancient practices described in "Origins" the two should not be merged. Tumacama (talk) 22:20, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Support moving the remaining material, now greatly reduced since a purge of unsourced material over the last month. What little remains is now supported. It does contain contested views, but such contested views shouldn't be suppressed when the references are appropriate. Klbrain (talk) 12:49, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Last Edit Summary With "...How To"
I mean to say violates WP:NOTHOWTO.Curb Chain (talk) 06:00, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I think that Curb Chain is referring to an edit I made, which added the chakra numbers next to the Sanskrit names of each chakra. This was a minor edit that translated non-English terminology into English here on English language Wikipedia.  This is common practice in articles related to yoga and makes it easier for English speakers to navigate what might otherwise be some very esoteric articles.
 * Regarding the Surya Namaskara article (and many other articles on yoga asanas), there is always some amount of "how to". As a yoga instructor, I teach asana (or, in English, poses) through visual, verbal and kinesthetic cues.  Therefore a picture of a yoga pose or sequence is a form of "how to", as is any written description.  It would be an absurd act of censorship to omit these pictures and descriptions in the articles that they relate to.  It would also be absurd to go overboard into every minute detail and aspect of a single asana in any given article.  As Wikipedians, we ultimately decide where the line is drawn.  We do this together by supporting the many truths out there through an attitude of "Yes, and..." rather than a flat out, "No, you're wrong."  Morganfitzp (talk) 16:15, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The sanskrit does not translate into the charkra numbers; am I wrong to say that the numbers are simply a learning aid, that the ordinals, and numbers, correspond to the position of the chakras from top to bottom?Curb Chain (talk) 21:25, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Good point. As per your suggestion, I've added a column to the chart, now called "Chakra Position".  Each row now details both the ordinal and a portion of the body associated with each corresponding chakra.  Morganfitzp (talk) 05:11, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Step 13
The following wikisyntax is from step 13 which I have removed as it didn't fit in the table when I combined the 2 tables: | 13 |ॐ ह्रः | |ॐ श्री सवित्र सूर्या नारायणाय नमः | || Anahata || Heart || Pranamasana Is this supposed to be for savasana, the last asana? If so, we should include this information, and a separate table with one row to show that this information is for shavasana.Curb Chain (talk) 22:08, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I've included this information as shavasana. Please remove the section is if this is incorrect.Curb Chain (talk) 23:41, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I think this may be related to . I remember either translating this and getting something like "salute to the father" and another sanskrit line translated to "salute to the mother".Curb Chain (talk) 01:39, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * this is of interestCurb Chain (talk) 01:49, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Rig Veda referrence in Mantra Section
How about mentioning the source of the mantras in the Rig Veda - referring to the details on the Surya Namaskara ORIGINS article ?!? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.197.218.191 (talk) 09:01, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Mantras
Would somebody be able to add a column with a translation into English of the Mantras? Gwaka Lumpa (talk) 07:57, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Eliminated "Ancient" History
This section has fleeting references to "sun worship" but nothing that has anything to do with the physical exercise known today as Surya namaskara. This follows a typical pattern of claiming ancient heritage for what there is only written history or evidence for modern times. If a separate article about "Yoga Sun Worship in Ancient India" is desired, please consider including this. Otherwise it is just throwing a bunch a Sanskrit terms and references and pretending they represent some sort of lineage.

Ancient
The Hatha Yoga Pradipika, the oldest known hatha yoga text does not mention "Surya namaskar" but mentions a sūrya-bhedana (sun-piercing) kumbhaka (II, 44 and 48–50) while the Gheraṇḍa Saṁhitā mentions sūrya-bheda kumbhaka (58–59). The oldest documented book with clear depictions of asanas is the Sritattvanidhi, though there is no mention of Surya namaskar in the text, it does describe the asanas "Sarpasana" (Bhujangasana), "Gajasana" (Adhomukh Swannasan), "Uttanasana" and series of asanas done in tandem, similar to Sūrya Namaskāra.. This whole section seems like unnecessary defensiveness on the part of people who want to claim an ancient lineage. If such a history ever existed, it is long lost in the past. Let me quote Mark Singleton's letter to Srivatsa Ramaswami: "Raja of Aundh revived suryanamaskar in the context of vyayama, and how it was initially promoted as an Indian alternative to Sandow bodybuilding. I am also interested in how (to Sri Yogendra’s chagrin) it was subsequently incorporated by others into physical culture-oriented yoga practices. You ask, “Are these physical drills, yoga exercises or devotional practices? Which came first? God knows, Lord Ganesa knows”. Well, the answer is that it depends entirely on context. In modern times the context can often be radically different. For example, into which category should we place a mass drill-type practice of suryanamaskar for children led by the Raja of Aundh circa 1935? Certainly he did not categorize it as yoga himself. It would have looked to many like a standard drill gymnastics of the time, and was to some extent conceived by the Raja as a replacement for this. And yet he clearly also recognized the “traditional” meaning of sun prostration." http://www.harmonyyoga.co.uk/2010/09/13/yoga-gymnastique-response-from-mark-singleton/ The general content of the "ancient" section can certainly be re-incorporated into the article as interesting precursors or a tradition that Suryanamaskar references or harkens back to. But it is not an actual history of Suryanamaskar itself and shouldn't be presented in such a way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tumacama (talk • contribs) 22:11, 10 August 2016 (UTC)


 * These scraps ARE the history of the sun salutation. The fallacy is Singleton's attempt to redefine what a sun salutation is to exclude the historical evidence, in defiance of his peers and predecessors. The problem is that Mark Singleton claims a negative on an absence of textual evidence (a practice we've seen undermined many times in Indian scholarship, due to the vast amount of untranslated and lost texts, see Dominik Wujastyk about that major obstacle to indology research). Although I have my doubts, Christopher Thompkins claims to have uncovered a 15th century agamic text that teaches the full sun salutation with the familiar bija mantras (hram hrim hrum etc). Singleton's claims are all in defiance of the claims made by those Indians who wrote about the sun salutation at the turn of the century. The confusion comes in trying to claim the sun salutation was part of a 'hatha' tradition or explicitly yoga. Being ancient, and being hatha yoga are two different claims that cannot be conflated. The surya namaskar was clearly used by Indian wrestlers and martial artists and is almost identical to practices used in Persian wrestling. The use of repeated prostrations to the sun or during parikrama (circumambulation) as a means of attaining blessings is well known and documented (it even exists in soto zen). The use of these practices taken to the extreme is the traditional tapas that yoga is based on, and no different than the stories of Ravana or others doing physical penance to gain a boon. Acts of self-mortification (misunderstood by Monier Williams to be the meaning of hatha yoga) to gain a boon in battle like immense strength are very commonplace, and part of how the warrior and yogi milieus overlap (see William Pinch on how the sadhus were also warrior armies that did not record their training exercises in texts, but spread them through the same akharas where we find the sun salutation in use). Alter points to Surya temples in India where they still practice a particularly mild and highly ritualized sun salutation. Also note where Singleton writes in his book "see Alter forthcoming", that Alter's book does not actually back up Singleton's references. Ramaswami points to the adityahrdaya in the Ramayana as evidence of sun worship for strength before battle as well. The Indian books on exercise that Singleton cites ALL give credit to Samarth Ram Das as the popularizer of the practice when he founded, not hatha yoga schools, but wrestling akharas. Singleton's claims, if you follow up with his references, are all in opposition to the sources he cites. He handily ignores Samarth Ram Das' existence completely, as well as all the research into Tamil, Deccan, and Marathi vernacular yoga traditions the Sanskritists like Mallinson never look at. It's a clear case of a sensationalist thesis from a known iconoclast using sources selectively, and then being parroted endlessly by wannabe yogi scholars. He is given far too much weight in these talks, especially by the extremely slanted fellows at Oxford who seem all too happy to attack and discredit the Indian mind, the Nathas and especially sometimes violent Śaiva groups for all their contributions to the evolution of modern yoga. For an in depth article on the topic, see this link: |article Iṣṭa Devatā (talk) 17:14, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
 * An example of something singleton cites and then discredits with zero evidence: "Shivaji was encouraged to make vigorous endeavour by the religious magnet Shree Samarth Ramdas Swamee who was considered to be the incarnation of strength and skill. They say, it was Ramadas who got 1,200 temples of Hanuman-God of strength and valour, built throughout India,. They are the living monuments of the wonderful organizing power. The idol of Hanuman was placed in every Gymnasium. Ramadas was considered as the incarnation of Hanuman by the Hindus. Ramadas Hanuman temples and gymnasiums were associated together. Ramadas also popularized Namaskar activities in Maharashtra. He travelled far and wide in the whole of India and wherever he stayed he inspired the people to build a temple of Hanuman with a gymnasium attached to it. He himself used to practise 1,200 Namaskars every day and consequently developed a remarkable physique. Thus Ramadas inspired the people to practise Namaskars every day after the daily ablutions. Namaskars are meant for worshipping the God Sun and thus even today the exercise of Namaskars is viewed as a religious practice." Mujumdar, D.C. (editor) Encyclopedia of Indian Physical Culture. Good Companions. Baroda, India. 1950 (p.18) This is the story he is undercutting based solely on not having seen, in his limited pre 19th century historical research, explicit textual proof thereof. This is the story that should be presented, with his THEORIES mentioned as a counterpoint. That's what an equal weight article would look like. Iṣṭa Devatā (talk) 17:36, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Possible copyright issue? Not really!
When I click on the link in the copy paste, I don't see anything that has been copied from there into this article. How did this article get flagged?

This article or section may have been copied and pasted from http://churchdb.gukutils.org.uk/GLS968.php (DupDet · CopyVios), possibly in violation of Wikipedia's copyright policy. Please remedy this by editing this article to remove any non-free copyrighted content and attributing free content correctly, or flagging the content for deletion. Please be sure that the supposed source of the copyright violation is not itself a Wikipedia mirror. (August 2016) Indian rediff (talk) 16:21, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed! I can only assume some mistake was made while/after clearing up the copyvio from another source, as visible in the page history, so I have removed the copyvio tag. Qwfp (talk) 17:32, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Wow, many of my edits were totally removed in the name of copyright violation, when I cannot have quoted more than a sentence or two from Mark Singleton's work. Quoting a sentence does not constitute a violation under my understanding. Fortunately someone else has added the essentials of Singleton's findings. I do not know whether to believe this was overenthusiastic editing or the removal was motivated by a resentment of Singleton's work, or work of others such as David Gordon White, who I could have quoted. Unfortunately I do not know how to access these deleted additions because copyright violation removes them from History. What an effective censorship tool! Tumacama (talk) 17:01, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Valmiki Ramayana
I have doubts about the validity of including this.Adityahridayam contains phrases that repeatedly include the word "Salutations", but there are no mentions of physical movements, aside from looking towards the sun and sipping water. This seems like a desperate attempt to link postural yoga to Hindu scripture. Aside from being nominally dedicated to the sun or sun god, there seems to be no connection. Was this brought from the "Surya Namaskar Origins" article? I welcome a response. Tumacama (talk) 18:15, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

įįįį🚔🚛🚑🚑😀≤ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.194.72 (talk) 00:05, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

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Requested move 20 March 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Moved Whether and which English translation to use can be resolved in a subsequent RM. — Wug·a·po·des​ 01:05, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Surya Namaskār → Surya Namaskar – Remove diacritic to facilitate search and be in line with other articles on yoga asanas. The current spelling is also mistaken (the full IAST spelling would have two diacritics, Sūrya Namaskār) so we need to avoid that error. The article gives the IAST spelling once to explain the Sanskrit, and otherwise uses no diacritic marks. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:16, 20 March 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. Jerm (talk) 00:29, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Since we're English Wikipedia why not go with Sun Salutation, which redirects here and took a leap in n-grams over the proposed title and the other common English names, Salute to the Sun and Salutation to the Sun. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:09, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Well if this is British English it's Salute to the Sun, but best not go into that rabbit-warren of a controversy. Surely we can agree that we'll be better off without an inconsistent halfway state of one diacritic. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:45, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The n-gram I linked includes Salute to the Sun, and is set to include upper and lower cases. Randy Kryn (talk) 09:47, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * No need to ping. "Surya Namaskar" has been in use since the 1920s as the book image in the article demonstrates. Since there are multiple vernacular names it seems invidious to pick one of those. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:30, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * That comes to the purpose of the n-gram. Sun Salutation sits at the clear primary with well over 50 percent of the combination of the rest of the names, at least as of 2008. Don't know if this has changed since then. People would recognize the English name as an easy-to-understand descriptor, especially on English Wikipedia. See Downward Dog Pose compared to the Sanskrit name " Adho Mukha Shvanasana". Randy Kryn (talk) 11:55, 29 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Request WP:30
I have 2 diffs here where claims my edits were not to fix comma splices (cf.: Sentence clause structure). There are numerous sources out there that advise against using commas to insert a breath or a break. What is the purpose of user:Chiswick Chaps commas?Catchpoke (talk) 02:02, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * 
 * 
 * I've used ordinary British English punctuation; I have a feeling that the editor's discomfort with the article's punctuation is a WP:ENGVAR issue, and nothing to do with splices. A comma splice awkwardly joins what should be independent sentences; the comma here is not of that kind, but a piece of native British speaker's usage. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:28, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I have not heard anything from Chiswick Chaps and I cannot form a third opinion until I do. I am watching this page, however, and upon hearing something from the other editor I'll happily provide.
 * I would love to hear your side of this dispute and your reasoning. I do need an answer from you within the next 6 days due to the nature of 3O. Thanks in advance, Sennecaster   ( What now? ) 07:29, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

- erm, my reply was and is just above. Happy to discuss. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:31, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah dang! My internet was too slow. One second... Sennecaster   ( What now? ) 07:32, 10 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Many thanks, very kind of you to take the time. All Yoga as exercise articles are in British English; articles on Yoga as philosophy or religion are I think generally in Indian English. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:02, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:ENGVAR does not state any differences between varieties of English on the use of the comma. It also has no rules or guidance on the comma splice or Run-on sentences ) which is an issue of puncutation and written phenomenon, not a spoken one.Catchpoke (talk) 21:45, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, things like differences in spelling are also written phenomena, and they definitely are covered under ENGVAR. For what it's worth, I don't see the referenced diffs as comma splices as they would not otherwise be independent clauses. But even as matters of punctuation taste, in my (American English) opinion, the sentence was fine as it was. Rational minds can disagree, but in that situation the standard is to leave it in the original state. Sauzer (talk) 00:33, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 17 September 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved. moved to Sun Salutation. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 17:07, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Surya Namaskar → Sun salutation – This is English Wikipedia and this practice has long had a common English name: Sun salutation. Skyerise (talk) 21:21, 17 September 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. No such user (talk) 12:06, 28 September 2021 (UTC)


 * I'd not think that necessary, nor even desirable, as Surya Namaskar is very widely used (as a long-ago adopted English word borrowed from the Sanskrit; the Sanskrit would be written "sūryanamaskār" - all one word, with diacritics). I see you thought that the term was not English; that's a mistake, as the term has been used in English books since 1928, and there are many examples to choose from. I've accordingly reverted your undiscussed insertion of italics into the article, which obviously go along with your request for the article to be moved to an English title: only thing is, it's got one already.


 * "Sun Salutation" is also ambiguous, as "Aditya Hridayam" is, as the article mentions, a completely different set of movements in which the sun is saluted. We really needn't go from an unambiguous name to one that'll require a disambiguation page and made-up names like "Sun Salutation (Pant Pratinidhi)" and "Sun Salutation (ancient) or whatever, we can really do without all that, and all we need to do to avoid it is to leave the name as it is.


 * "Surya Namaskar" has the merit, too, of being used both in the British-English domain which uses either "Surya Namaskar" or "Salute to the Sun", and in the American-English domain which uses either "Surya Namaskar" or "Sun Salutation", so it's a neutral term (the only one).


 * We have here a simple if-it's-not-broken-don't-fix-it situation - this article has existed for some 17 years without incident, and readers and editors of all persuasions have been happy with its title, which is well chosen. As a Brit, I'm happy to let you know that I find the "Salutation" awkward, klunky, even embarrassing, where "Salute to the Sun" at least sounds fairly normal. The exercise was first published in a book, in English, in 1928, under the title "The Ten-Point Way to Health: Surya Namaskars" - one was exhorted to do 10 of them daily. The name has thus been in use in English for nearly a century, and I'm sure it'll still be so used in a century's time. Let's leave it alone. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:44, 17 September 2021 (UTC)


 * There is no reason for using foreign-language names when there are fairly standard English usages. Articles should only have foreign names only when there is no English equivalent or when the n-gram shows that the foreign-language name gets the most traffic. If an English-language name gets the most traffic, that's what we should use per WP:COMMONNAME. Skyerise (talk) 21:53, 17 September 2021 (UTC)


 * But, as I've now explained several times (part of which you've not seen, I think, see above), "Surya Namaskar" written like that is English, and has been since 1928. The name has of course been borrowed from Sanskrit, which, romanised in IAST is written "sūryanamaskār": but that's not the same thing. Other words borrowed from Sanskrit and naturalised into English include "Yoga", "Asana", "Hatha Yoga", "Mantra", "Guru" and so on and so forth. All of these are in English dictionaries, as you can easily verify. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:59, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Surya is not in English dictionaries. We've got a perfectly good word for Sun. Skyerise (talk) 22:03, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * We're not discussing "Surya" but "Surya Namaskar". But both names are as it happens in English dictionaries.
 * Additionally, spiritual traditions which insist on using foreign-language names primarily do it as a form of elitism. Do we have an article on Yoga elitism? We should. Skyerise (talk) 22:01, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Maybe you should write it, if you can do that without WP:OR ... but no, Surya Namaskar is exercise, not spirituality, and was so from the beginning; Pratinidhi advocated it for health, and nothing else. Additionally, to coin a phrase, Surya Namaskar isn't "foreign-language" - that'd be assuming what you are trying to prove, i.e. a circular argument. Chiswick Chap (talk) 22:10, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It'll end up at Sun Salutation despite your oh so British protestations. So you find 'salutation' awkward? Most readers probably don't. It's simply not a good reason for not following WP:COMMONNAME. Skyerise (talk) 22:13, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, you keep citing COMMONNAME, but I see that "Salute to the Sun" gets more g-hits than "Sun Salutation", so if it's going to go anywhere, which depends on other editors, then it would be that way. And "oh so British" is getting close to a personal attack: don't go there. Thanks. Chiswick Chap (talk) 22:19, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * As cited above in the last requested move, the n-gram shows "Sun Salutation" get 50% more than the other titles combined. I'm sure Randy will be along to verify that and again give his opinion. And if you really think "oh so British" is anywhere close to a personal attack, go report me somewhere. Skyerise (talk) 22:27, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Interesting n-gram, but the fact that "Salutation/Salute to the Sun" were both in use as far back as the 1810s and 1820s is surprising, as Pratinidhi's Surya Namaskar cycle had not then been invented or at least popularised in that century. That means that the "Salutation to the Sun" was referring to some other exercise, perhaps "Aditya Hridayam" as mentioned above, again pointing to the term's ambiguity. I think we need to hear what other editors think, not just you, me, and Randy; but creating an ambiguous title clearly is problematic. I shall wait now for other viewpoints. Chiswick Chap (talk) 22:31, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose Surya namaskar is the WP:COMMONNAME in Indian English . Also Oxford dictionary recognizes it as an English word.-- Redtigerxyz  Talk 12:12, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Support and uppercase per my comment at the last RM: "Since we're English Wikipedia why not go with Sun Salutation, which redirects here and took a leap in n-grams over the proposed title and the other common English names, Salute to the Sun and Salutation to the Sun." Aside from that, and actually more importantly for the direction Wikipedia has taken on Hatha Yoga and recent yoga practices and teachings, would be to add wording such as "for spiritual practice and conscious control of the muscular system" in addition to "exercise". Labeling anything yoga (which means union with the divine or similar) as solely physical exercise tends to mislead readers by omission as to the definition and purpose of the word and practice of yoga. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:18, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nomination and uppercase per Randy Kryn whose assembled evidence is indisputable. English Wikipedia should indeed use the English form. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 14:15, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Support and uppercase per other support !votes. English version is in common use and unambiguous. Sanskrit version is ambiguous and possibly promotional, there being an active organisation by that name. Andrewa (talk) 22:39, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Support and uppercase per Randy Kryn.  Peter Ormond &#128172;  07:32, 6 October 2021 (UTC)