Talk:Sun Yang/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Lizzy150 (talk · contribs) 21:13, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Hey

I have started an initial review of this article! Here are my comments so far:

Lead

 * "he is also the most decorated Chinese swimmer in history." — I think you should remove this line because it sounds like puffery (see MOS: Words to watch. I know it states that he is "decorated" in the source but let's just give only the facts
 * ✅ I didn't remove it because it's objectively true; he is the most decorated (as in, he has the most medals of any Chinese athlete). (See the opening sentence of Michael Phelps.) I feel like the next sentence would be more likely to be considered puffery, but there is attribution to a reliable source. Bobbychan193 (talk) 02:54, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * In the second paragraph, you have used "At the.." 6 times. Please start the sentence with something else
 * ✅ Bobbychan193 (talk) 02:54, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "then-stimulant" — you should rephrase it as "which was classified as a stimulant at the time by WADA" rather than using "then"
 * ✅ Let me know if it sounds verbose now. I can try to trim. Bobbychan193 (talk) 02:54, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "China's Anti-Doping Agency deputy director Zhao Jia subsequently commented: "Sun proved.." — I don't think you need this quote in the lead. It is already mentioned later. Just summarise the fact: "He was banned for three months"
 * ✅ Bobbychan193 (talk) 02:54, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Early life

 * "He was named after the combination of his parents' surnames" — you can probably remove "the combination of"
 * ✅ Bobbychan193 (talk) 05:29, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "Sun is the only son to his parents." — the right phrase in English would be: "He is an only child"
 * ✅ Bobbychan193 (talk) 05:29, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Career

 * "he placed" — I think you should change all instances of that to "he came", because this is how it is expressed in English
 * ✅ Bobbychan193 (talk) 05:49, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "Sun was considered a favorite in the 400 metre and 1500 metre freestyle, as well.." — really? I think this needs a source(s) if it's true
 * ✅ Added two sources, but couldn't find sources for the "medal contender" claim. Should I do some more searching?Bobbychan193 (talk) 05:49, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "anchored the Chinese team" — we might need a different term because "anchored" doesn't make sense
 * ✅ Bobbychan193 (talk) 05:49, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Nevermind; changed them back. See anchor leg. Bobbychan193 (talk) 03:44, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "in his best event" — what does it mean by best?
 * ✅ Reworded to say "strongest event". The next sentence explains it. Bobbychan193 (talk) 05:49, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "most successful Chinese male swimmer in Olympic history" — this might need to be sourced otherwise it sounds like puffery again
 * ✅ Couldn't really find an explicit source, but this was the closest I could find to a source. Should I add it? Bobbychan193 (talk) 05:49, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "He showed his versatility" — same as above. You should remove this
 * ✅ Also reworded the rest of the sentence. Bobbychan193 (talk) 05:49, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * There's a few copy edits and minor language changes, which I can do later
 * Sounds good. Bobbychan193 (talk) 05:49, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

More comments later, but it's good so far. Nothing major. Thanks, Lizzy (talk 21:13, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking the time to review! I’ll try to work through your comments within the next few days. Bobbychan193 (talk) 22:26, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I've resolved all of your comments. I've been making additional edits and improvements to the article, including some expansions to underdeveloped/unwritten parts of the Career section. Feel free to review these changes, and take your time with the rest of the review. Bobbychan193 (talk) 06:37, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for addressing my comments. My advice - if you can't find an exact source that says "He is the most successful", then don't add it. It might be better to say "He is considered to be the most successful.." with the sources at the end. For the "medal contender" claim, I have removed the word "medal" because he is definitely a contender, but may not necessarily be a medal winner! I have read half of the article again and made some small changes for you. Let me know if you're okay with them.

A few comments:

Thanks, Lizzy (talk 22:31, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "After qualifying for the final with the fastest time, he seemed a sure winner." — does that mean a winner for a medal? Is that sourced anywhere?
 * ✅ Bobbychan193 (talk) 03:44, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "most decorated Chinese male swimmer in Olympic history, and the first swimmer to win the 400/1500 double since Vladimir Salnikov.." — is that also sourced in the ref
 * ✅ Bobbychan193 (talk) 03:44, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "he improved on his silver showing" — what does this mean?
 * ✅ Probably meant that he got silver last time, but it's not really too relevant here, so I deleted it. Bobbychan193 (talk) 03:44, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "Sun was given the task of anchoring the team for the 4 × 200 metre.." — change the word "anchoring"
 * ❌ I'll link the key term. See anchor leg. Bobbychan193 (talk) 03:44, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I think you need a few more sources, especially in the "Continued success (2013)" section. Does source [24] support everything in the paragraph?
 * ✅ Let me know if I need more. Bobbychan193 (talk) 05:04, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Also, the "Major achievements" section will also need sources (like Michael Phelps)
 * ✅ Bobbychan193 (talk) 02:16, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Working through. Thanks for the comments. Bobbychan193 (talk) 03:45, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * For the "Major achievements" section, should I convert it to a table format? Bobbychan193 (talk) 05:04, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * It is optional if you want to use a table or not. If you think it looks better in a table, then you can, but it's not necessary. Also, try not to use the same quotes twice; you've got "NBC Sports described him as "arguably the greatest freestyle swimmer of all time" in the lead and achievements sections. In your career headers, try to put the date first (2013 — Continued success, 2015 — Worldwide Championships etc). Move the Awards, Achievements and Personal bests to the bottom (just after Personal life). Thanks, Lizzy (talk 20:23, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Got it. Deleted the extra quote, and renamed the subheaders. However, I don't agree about moving those sections after Personal life. I think it's better to consecutively organize all career-related information. See the featured article Ian Thorpe. Bobbychan193 (talk) 21:28, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I can't find any sources for his achievements from 2006 and 2007, so I'll probably be deleting them. Those entries seem like national tournaments anyway, so they aren't as noteworthy as the rest of his international achievements. Bobbychan193 (talk) 22:07, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Finally finished the table. Let me know if there's anything else to do. Bobbychan193 (talk) 02:16, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Okay great, that's fine. Here's a few (last) more things, I promise!: I have also made some minor edits to the rest of the article. Thanks, Lizzy (talk 19:28, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * In the "2013: Continued success" section, the last paragraph is about Sun driving without a licence and his apology. Could we perhaps merge this to the "Personal life" section as it is mentioned there too. I don't think it needs to be mentioned in 2 places.
 * ✅ Bobbychan193 (talk) 23:45, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * This sentence: "WADA, which has a right of appeal if it perceives a sanction to be too light, elected not to proceed further after reviewing the case file." — has been copy and pasted from the article at source 43 (The Sydney Morning Herald). Please don't copy from sources directly, see: Copying text from other sources. I have rephrased this sentence for you.
 * Most of this article was not written by me. Regardless, thanks for pointing this out and for the fix. Bobbychan193 (talk) 21:35, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * In the "2019–present: World Championships" section, the two paragraphs mention the incident about Mack Horton refusing to share the podium with Sun. Does it need to be mentioned in both paragraphs if it's the same incident?
 * ✅ Bobbychan193 (talk) 23:49, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * In the "2018 testing incident", the second paragraph also has sentences very similar to source 82 (ABC News). Please avoid copying the article, and put it in your own words instead. If you take a sentence from a source, please put it in quote marks. Example below:
 * "fully transparent to clear his name" – this part should be in quote marks because this phrase is from source 102 (Swim Swam). I have done this for you. Any direct quotes from sources must have quote marks.
 * Most of this article was not written by me. Regardless, thanks for pointing this out and for the fix. Bobbychan193 (talk) 21:35, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The Awards table is great. Could we try moving that image of Sun with a gold medal somewhere else? We should allow the table to fully expand to the right.
 * ✅ Bobbychan193 (talk) 23:45, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Is it necessary to state "(long course)" in the "Personal bests" header? You could just mention "long course" in the table instead.
 * ✅ Bobbychan193 (talk) 23:45, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * These references don't have website titles: 44, 62, 65, 66, 67, 90, 91, 93, 95, 96, 97, 98, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130. This doesn't stop it from being a Good Article, but it's usually good practice to mention them.
 * Will try to work through these. Bobbychan193 (talk) 23:50, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅ Bobbychan193 (talk) 01:27, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Reference 130 doesn't work for me. Has the article been deleted?
 * Unfortunately it seems so. It also isn't archived. Judging from the title, the article is about Sun playing basketball, which we fortunately already have another source for. I've deleted the dead reference. Bobbychan193 (talk) 19:45, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I think that's everything. Thanks for the detailed review! Bobbychan193 (talk) 01:27, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Hi. Apologies — I know the article wasn't written all by you. I was meant to point out the issues to all the editors in general. Anyway, I have just finished reading the article and it looks much better. I've made some edits too, such as using "1st" instead of "first", if he came in that position in a race. This was to keep it consistent throughout the article. I've also trimmed some of the sentences down and replaced words that may introduce bias (eg. "claimed", "noted", "although") — Manual of Style/Words to watch. Overall, the article is mostly well-written, neutral, stable, verifiable and illustrated with images. Thanks for improving this article, I hope you keep up the quality! I'm now passing this as a GA. Lizzy (talk 22:49, 18 November 2019 (UTC)