Talk:Sundering of the Elves/Archive 1

Hekeldi? Lathrim?
I'd like to know where the names "hekeldi", "lathrim" and "mithrim" (as a people of elves's name) appears, for I don't remember. These names are written in the picture "The Sundering of the Elves as perceived after the Exile of the Noldor". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.43.212.117 (talk) 04:39, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * From The War of the Jewels, see references in the article. (Why, why do you all read the name as Lathrim? It is Iathrim, beginning with a "vowel-letter" i, though it is pronounced as a consonant [j].) Súrendil (talk) 17:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Tribal names
I'm not entirely content with the way the current entry uses tribal names for the Elves. I have replaced "Lindar" with "Teleri" in most places (because all of the Elves of the third tribe who were on the Great Journey were called Teleri: that's where they got the name), but I've left "Lindar" as the original tribe name before the first sundering. I would welcome other input into this (and, in particular, any comments on what conventions have been used elsewhere in Wikipedia). --Steuard 19:14, Jul 13, 2004 (UTC)

Category: General or Elves
There seems to have been a disagreement recently about whether this article should belong to the category "Middle-earth Elves" or to the more general category "Middle-earth". The page for "Middle-earth Elves" declares that "This category lists members of the race of Elves...", not that it lists all articles about Elves. In my opinion, a strong argument can be made that this page is about an aspect of the history of Middle-earth, not about any specific member or subgroup of the race of Elves. (That's essentially what 69.86.17.138 said in his/her edit summary, but hopefully it's clearer for this longer discussion.) Given that essentially every specific subgroup listed here has its own article, including this article in the "Middle-earth Elves" category doesn't seem to add much there. Viewed as history, I think it fits best under the general category. --Steuard 22:36, Nov 14, 2004 (UTC)
 * Perhaps both? There's no reason why an article cannot go in the parent category and a sub-category if it is useful to both. -[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 23:49, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The image
I would like to point out that the image showing the divisions of Elves is just simply wrong. I would advocate for it's removal or getting a better or improving image that will show 'the Sundering' correctly. Afrika 03:25, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Explaining what you think is wrong about it might be helpful. It looks fairly accurate to me. --CBD 20:08, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Changed the picture. Mine is more based on Q&E, otherwise the colours etc. remain. The names for Calaquendi, Eldar and others in ellipses are used instead of circles of Venn diagram. --Surendil 08:48, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * May I propose a few corrections? 1. Hekeldi should be renamed to Sindar and the Sindar circle under it should be removed, Hekeldi was a very rarely used as a reference to all Eldar who remained in Beleriand meaning it was used for some of the Nandor as well, furthemore it was more a nickname. Iathrim, Mithrim and Falathrim were all Sindar. Also leader of all Sindar was Elwe so his name should be just under it not under the Iathrim, Cirdan should remain nevertheless for Falathrim. 2. Moriquendi is a name for all those Elves who didn't reach Valinor and saw the light of two trees, this means that Sindar are also Moriquendi. 3. Silvan Elves section should be added as well as a branch of Nandor, and additionally two branches of Silvan Elves: Galadhrim and Silvan Elves of Mirkwood. That would correct the schematic and set it right 100%. --Jambala 22:02, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't get the numbers for half of the Tatyar, who became Noldor, and half of them, who became Avari. In both cases image shows "23/56", while half would be "28/56". If text is true, number 56 for Tatyar should be correct, since Tata + Tatië + 9 pairs (in the forest) + 18 pairs (watching the stars) = 28 pairs = 56. Either I am missing something important, as where the remaining 10 elves vanished, or the numbers are mistaken. Could someone correct them, if not found me wrong? -Bobbylon (talk) 06:23, 17 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I noticed the same thing, and corrected the numbers so the Tatyars are now split 28+28. Indrek (talk) 08:59, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

when?
I came here looking for WHEN the sundering occured. There is a lot of detail here, but no big picture. I see nothing about time, not even what age(s) the sundering occured. Pb8bije6a7b6a3w (talk) 17:26, 3 December 2012 (UTC)