Talk:Super Mario 3D World/Archive 1

Toad
Should the description of Toad (Mario) be more cautious? There should be more references about this since in past games all descriptions about Toad(Kinopio) and generic toads are seperate. If nobody can find a proper reference about this, the description should be altered. --Doracake (talk) 01:50, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * What exactly would you change? Sergecross73   msg me   02:00, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * If no other references added, the content should be corrected that the blue toad can only be assumed to be unknown generic character like previous New Super Mario Bros. games, while Toad hasn't shown to be in this title according to the information Nintendo show to date. --Doracake (talk) 10:20, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure it matters, this game is a multiplayer platformer, its certain to have virtually no plot or anything. It doesn't look much different than how its given in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, but if you feel the need to sub in the word "generic" in there somewhere without it sounding awkward, that's fine too I guess... Sergecross73   msg me   12:07, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Even though SMB had put not too many character personal stories, it couls still cause problems when writing other relevant wiki articles like how many actual playable appearances of Toad himself, and being safe should be what a wiki article is. --Doracake (talk) 10:50, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Eh, I'm not sure how important that sort of documentation is either. None of them ever have any sort of individuality or characteristics other than coloring. Whether or not its "The" Toad or "A" Toad has never had an effect on anything in the series... Sergecross73   msg me   12:17, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Regarding this edit, it's not necessary to keep pointing to the fact that the Toad is blue. The reader isn't going to suddenly forget and confuse the Toad in this paragraph with another one, nor will the reader care. It's redundant. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 03:12, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It is somehow okay, but physically the meaning is changed I think. One thing should be noticed is most recent Super Mario series titles include both (red) Toad and blue Toad appearance at the same time (Super Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros. Wii etc.). For now trailers don't show how many actual characters would appear, any information should be properly ensured. In addition, even though in Japanese official translations (the red) Toad is called Kinopio and the others called Mushroom people (Kinoko), the terms used in Japanese New Super Mario Bros. Wii still refer all three individual toads "Kinopio". To make a proper edit, I guess it'd better be as same as New Super Mario Bros. Wii which already decide their names. --Doracake (talk) 11:35, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * In the English translations, they don't differentiate between Kinopio or a random Toad, probably because there is absolutely no reason to do so. Minus color, every single one is interchangeable in every way. You're trying to fix a problem that just isn't represented in the English games to begin with.
 * Its redundant to call him "Blue Toad" every single time. That's not a name, that's a description of him. Once you describe him as blue once, with no other Toads being introduced, its assumed that you're still talking about the same one, there isn't any reason given to the reader to think that the subject (that particular Toad) had changed. Sergecross73   msg me   12:02, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The translation is additional thing I said, your own interpretation is additional too. Back to topic, I understand the redundant you mean, so I'm okay with it. But as long as Blue Toad used in past games is also a fact, I don't really think if readers would consider it strange. Unless you think the other articles need discussion to unify the terms. --Doracake (talk) 12:20, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * On the English Wikipedia, we should call him whatever the English language divisions of Nintendo are calling him. I haven't seen him be called anything other than just "Toad". There's nothing wrong with describing him as the blue Toad, that's fine, that's pretty objectively what he is. He just doesn't need to be described as blue every single time, only if he needs to be differentiated from another Toad. (In games like New Super Mario Bros., this happened more often because there was both a blue and yellow toad. In most situations for this game, its not necessary to state color because there is only one Toad to begin with, since Peach has replaced the yellow Toad. Unless this game, for example, had a boss battle with an evil green Toad or something like that, we don't need to describe him every time.) Sergecross73   msg me   13:24, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
 * While we shouldn't refer to his color every time, perhaps we should keep "the" (the sentence would read "and the Toad runs the fastest" instead of "and Toad runs the fastest"). SNS (talk) 02:33, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't have a problem with that. Sergecross73   msg me   16:49, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Toad again
An IP keeps on making this edit, stating that the blue Toad "sports a blue cap for this game as a tribute to his sprite in Super Mario Bros. 2". In the last re-addition, this source was added, which, does not support the italic quote. It says nothing about being a tribute or anything like that. Unless a source directly says that its a tribute, it should not say that in the article... Sergecross73  msg me   00:31, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * As mentioned, since we've already seen the blue Toad in several titles but no introduction regards him as an individual character or a tribute to the old game, I don't think that saying is valid. It's even reluctant if Nintendo really say so. --Doracake (talk) 23:20, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I also agree it isn't necessary, unless there is a very specific source saying so and throwbacks become an important part of the game. (The date of the comment above me is a year behind, but I'm not sure if I should try to fix it...)  Dark Toon Link Heyaah! 14:01, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * (That is bizarre. Oh well, I doubt anyone's going to think he responded to me a year before I started the actual discussion.) Sergecross73   msg me   14:23, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Toad once more
We should just note in the beginning, Toad is colored blue and then afterwards just call him "Toad" without adding "The" and "A" in front of Toad each time. Its most likely, Nintendo went with the blue coloration to make Toad stand out colorwise rather then any story reason reason. It should be noted that Nintendo and Miyamoto in an interview simply call the Blue toad, "Toad". They do not specify, "A Toad" or "The Toad." Delsait (talk) 23:09, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with what you're saying. To explain, all of the "a's" and "the's" were a compromise for some who strangely feel the need to name him "Blue Toad" or to refer to his color in every single sentence. Sergecross73   msg me   02:27, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree also. I feel that trying to disambiguate "this" Toad from all others is nitpicky and doesn't help the reader understand it better. As I said above, no one is going to confuse "this" Toad with some other. Actually, trying to reason that "Well this Toad is different from the others" falls under synthesis in a way, since it contradicts what Nintendo says is "Toad." --ThomasO1989 (talk) 03:36, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Its clear, Nintendo views the fourth character in this game as Toad. Miyamoto even calls him Peach's butler. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Delsait (talk • contribs) 06:00, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Uh, I'm not sure exactly what the butler comment proves...but I otherwise agree, and there appears to be consensus on it now. Sergecross73   msg me   14:55, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * We don't know the specific reason why Nintendo and Miyamoto in an interview simply call the Blue toad, "Toad". As said, the Japanese New Super Mario Bros. Wii instructions still refer all three individual toads "Kinopio" instead of "Mushroom People / Kinokos", which means they didn't make understandable clarifications. Since there are still multiple toads in this title, there should be at least a better way to make the article understandable. --Doracake (talk) 15:50, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Nintendo calls them "Toad" and "Captain Toad". That's understandable enough. If Nintendo calls the Blue Toad "Toad," then it is so. There's nothing more to that. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 08:19, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It should be put in the discussion of Toad. We should focus on whether the names are recogizable in all relevant articles, or it would create more problems in future edits, since the Japanese Wikipedia also made it clear. I agree with the part that the names in instructions should be a part of the references, but it depends on how to represent it. And do not make edit warrings. --Doracake (talk) 15:50, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The Japanese Wikipedia isn't a useable reference point if that information itself isn't reliably sourced. Right now, English sources just call him "Toad" and so that's how he'll be represented on the English Wikipedia. Do not change it again unless consensus changes. Sergecross73   msg me   15:03, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, most of the names are based on what the Japanese/English Nintendo websites mentioned, and it's funny to say they're not reliable source. And we should improve the articles when thinking they are not reliable as a Wikipedia editor. So back to the topic, the fact is there are multiple characters based on similar identity, so there should be a clear representation to prevent from confusing readers. Since both toads have their original apperance from previous games, it is a legitimate way to hint in the article. Do not change it again unless consensus changes. --Doracake (talk) 16:00, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * No, absolutely nothing changes in the game regardless of this Toad's identity. It is absolutely trivial to the game. This is game is not based around a narrative that is based on character development or identity. Toad's personality is not a notable part of the game, nor are there any differences in personality traits between these possible "Toads". There's just no importance to this, especially to the general reader. Sergecross73   msg me   17:07, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * In your previous reply, you mentioned that "In most situations for this game, its not necessary to state color because there is only one Toad to begin with". Since now the game content has been revealed, I don't see your point to keep it as the old revision which isn't based on the whole game. "Skipping differences" doesn't mean "oversimplifized and incorrect information". You should explain why origins and references of characters and gameplay shouldn't be added to this article. Besides, "nor any differences in personality traits between Toads" should be referable in their own article. --Doracake (talk) 17:20, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Referring to the Toad as "Toad" isn't incorrect, because Nintendo calls the character "Toad." Adding origins and references of characters and gameplay is original research and cruft. In other words, it's completely unnecessary and is not relevant to understanding the game play. And as I have already stated: there is only "Toad" and "Captain Toad". Those names alone imply that the characters are different. Adding "blue" to the name is unnecessary because there is no other Toad in the game to distinguish from that isn't named differently. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 17:46, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thomas just about covered things - "Toad" and "Captain Toad" differentiates them just fine, and English language sources just refer to him as "Toad", so "incorrect" is not right to say. Unless you've got some English language reliable sources, and some sort of argument against the Toads identity and personality being any sort of impact on the game at all, you're not going to sway anyone knowledgeable of Wikipedia policy and guidelines. (Like WP:OR, WP:GAMECRUFT, etc.) Sergecross73   msg me   18:38, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The fact is the information offical source provide for now is incomplete. As I have already stated: readers don't know what the "Toads" actually refer. Even though there are "names" as ThomasO1989 thought, these names are not recognized in other articles or official canon. I can't see how this article relate to the others if there is no any legitimate reference with the Toad (Mario). I agree with the OR part, but there are still other references in this article, please refine it if you think it is necessary. --Doracake (talk) 8:20, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Trying to determine what is and what isn't "official canon" and claiming that what Nintendo says, the primary source, is "incomplete" is synthesis. Your argument falls apart right there. It's unnecessary and not relevant to understanding the game play. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 01:03, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Please make it clear that it's how to improve articles, not about my personal arguments or thoughts. The point I see is it's not about just the game play, but it relates to other articles which have specifically described objects, and readers can't know what the article says since they can't find the truth by reading other articles. As said, if we should avoid such kind of thing, please refine the article and erase any other information about references. --Doracake (talk) 01:50, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

First 3D Super Mario featuring simultaneous multiplayer for up to 4 people?
Below the screenshot, it says: "The game is the first 3D Super Mario title to support simultaneous multiplayer for up to four players." I don't think that's true: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_64_DS#Gameplay had a simultaneous multiplayer for up to 4 players as well. "The multiplayer mode uses the wireless Download Play option to allow two to four players compete against each other using Yoshi (voiced by Kazumi Totaka)—character hats appear in the stage allowing players to transform into either Mario, Luigi, or Wario." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.238.199.41 (talk) 15:03, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * They may have meant its the first "Co-op" one, but even still, that's too long for a caption anyways. Sergecross73   msg me   16:19, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

"Awards" section
I feel like this game deserves it's own awards section in the page. It's been widely praised and is nominated frequently as Game of the Year by many sites. I think it deserves it's own section. 24.41.250.228 (talk) 02:05, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * In theory, yes, it could happen but I don't see many/any listed so far. Somebody should probably provide some first... Sergecross73   msg me   00:46, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Here are some:


 * IGN Awards
 * Game of the Year – Pending
 * Best Platformer – Pending
 * Best Music – Pending
 * Best Wii U Game – Pending
 * Best Wii U Platformer – Pending
 * Best Wii U Multiplayer – Pending
 * Best Wii U Music – Pending
 * Best of E3 Destructroid
 * Best Wii U Game - Nominated
 * Best Platformer - Nominated


 * GameRevolution Awards 2013
 * Game of the Year - Nominated
 * Studio of the Year (Nintendo) - Won
 * Best Wii U Exclusive - Won
 * GameSpot Awards	
 * Game of the Year – Nominated
 * Best Wii U Game – Won


 * Spike VGX
 * Game of the Year – Nominated
 * Best Nintendo Game – Won


 * Cheat Code Central
 * Best Nintendo Game – Won


 * Best of E3 IGN
 * Best Overall Game – Nominated
 * Best Wii U Game – Nominated
 * Best Platforming Game – Nominated


 * Best of E3 GameTrailers
 * Best Wii U Exclusive – Nominated


 * Best of E3 GameInformer
 * Best Platformer – Won
 * Best Wii U Exclusive – Won


 * The Nerdist Best of E3
 * Best Platformer - Won

24.41.250.228 (talk) 02:05, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Best of E3 EGM
 * Best Wii U Exclusive - Won

24.41.250.228 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:06, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

24.41.250.228 (talk) 14:34, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I have no opposition to adding this as long as references are provided. (Except for those "Platinum Chalice" ones at the end. Those sound like joke awards. Or just aren't notable...) Sergecross73   msg me   19:32, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Can you add the ONM Awards, as you have done many Mario character descriptions from it? Issues 104 (The ONM Awards) and 105 (The ONM Alternative Awards) 213.104.216.75 (talk) 07:22, 16 March 2014 (UTC) 213.104.216.75 (talk) 07:22, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Page protection.
Since the game is less than 6 months old, and the system its on is having a few issues, I reccommend we execute page protection on this page until the game is at least 6 months old. Why? To protect it and games from 2007 still have protected pages. 173.79.173.228 (talk) 15:08, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Page protection is only done if an article is getting extensive vandalism by anonymous IPs or new users. I don't think its been especially bad in this article, nothing major or persistent, and I don't think the Wii U's poor shape is really affecting the vandalism, so I don't think its necessary (yet?). Sergecross73   msg me   15:29, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Regarding the gameplay screenshot
I don't believe the image being used in this screenshot is very representative of the game, considering the general one-fair use image limit on articles. Mario and friends running is a generic concept of most Mario games, and could be described through words alone... I think that an image demonstrating the use of double cherries or super bells could make for a much better image and caption. If I don't get any objections, I'll change it within a week. Thanks all. ~ P*h3i   (talk to me)  07:01, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I think the current image is fine - the game's core concept is four-player simultaneous play, which this captures well. The cherry was a relatively small part of the game - it's only in a handful of the levels - so I don't find it particularly important to capture, and the cat suit prospect is covered pretty well from the cover art in the infobox. (And isn't particularly important to provide image-wise anyways - tell anyone to imagine "Mario in a cat suit" and I don't see how what they imagined could possibly stray far from what he looks like in-game.) Sergecross73   msg me  12:45, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I suppose you're right. I also have changed the caption of the image to better reflect it as well as shorten it for readability. ~ P*h3i   (talk to me)  02:40, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Submission for GA review
Hello everyone,

I've done some fixing and I think this article is ready to be GA-reviewed. If there aren't any objections, I'll go ahead with it. Thanks all. ~ P*h3i   (talk to me)  07:59, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It's up to you. I don't know if its at GA level yet, but its close, and it might be the type of situation where you could get it there if you follow the GA reviewers instructions/requests. Sergecross73   msg me  16:17, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Welp, I might as well give it a shot. ~ P*h3i   (talk to me)  06:27, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Premature nomination. Not close to GA status. I've tagged with issues which are obvious and should be addressed before a review is made. In addition to those, the development section is rather short given how extensively this game has been covered in the media. --The1337gamer (talk) 18:54, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Seconded. This is at least high-C/low-B class. JOE  BRO  64  18:55, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for the feedback. I'll remove the nom and improve it some more. I thought the same thing about the Development section, but I've been having trouble finding new sources. I'll keep at it though. ~ P*h3i   (talk to me)  22:16, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * This might be useful for finding sources: https://cse.google.com/cse/home?cx=003516479746865699832:leawcwkqifq JOE  BRO  64  23:24, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * There are some reference ideas at the top of this talk page (just below the project banner). Also search for interviews with key members of staff. Interviews are always useful for development. --The1337gamer (talk) 07:08, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I've used majority of them already. ~ P*h3i   (talk to me)  01:46, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

IP edits regarding platforms
There’s been repeated edits by IPs related to platforms. Not even arguing about which ones, just repeatedly tweaking and doing, as far as I can tell, little to nothing noticeable. Can someone explain the issue exactly? Sergecross73  msg me  22:44, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Looking at the IP edits you recently reverted, it looks like they're trying to make it a list á la the template, but they don't know about it, and are going the "Microsoft Word newbie" way by inserting a ton of spaces in an attempt to create an indent. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 23:02, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Bowser's Fury
So the new trailer for Bowser's Fury just came out this morning, and the section describing the thing for Bowser's Fury has not even been changed to match the new information. Can you guys update it to match what we have just learned about Bowser's Fury?

FreezingTNT2 (talk) 20:56, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * You're as welcome as anyone else to do it yourself. Be sure to use reliable sources and not just recount what you see in the video, as that falls under original research. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 21:29, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * They may be locked out of the editing - I protected the page a week back because there was a steady stream of unconstructive edits being made by IPs. Some info could stand to be added...but not much. The trailer was 2 minutes of action shots - they didn't really release any quantitative info on it. We still don't know anything in regards to premise, structure, or game-length. Sergecross73   msg me  22:09, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Spiritual Successor to Super Mario World (1990)
Why doesn’t the article mention that SM3DW is the spiritual successor to Super Mario World, down to the same enemies, same color palette, same fences, etc. These are exclusive to SMW and SM3DW. 85.148.213.144 (talk) 09:06, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, because reliable sources generally didn't say that. Most of the time in video games, the spiritual successor term is used when the original creators don't have the legal rights to the name anymore so they make a similar name - think Banjo Kazooie and Yooka Laylee or Mega Man and Mighty Number 9. Obviously not the case here. The more accurate label would be how we have it - both as a follow up to Super Mario 3D Land and as part of the actual Super Mario series. Sergecross73   msg me  14:55, 2 February 2021 (UTC)