Talk:Super Robot Wars

Comment
Very nice information for beginners...perhaps you could post some pics from Alpha 2 to attract those who wish better graphics?

Comment 2
I wish someone will make separate pages for each game and in each page there will be stuff on the story, original characters and mecha profiles.

Dancougar
This says that Dancougar first premiered in Super Robot Wars Compact in 1999, but I'm sure that I used him in Super Robot Wars 4. I'd change it, but my file is missing, so I'd prefer to confirm it first.192.195.230.36 05:55, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, this was me, I simply forgot to log in. Xenon Zaleo 05:56, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Forgive me again, but I missed it, it was in the list under Super Machine God Beast Dancougar, I'm going to remove the mention from SRW Compact.
 * Perhaps the original writer meant God Bless Dancougar or the OAV. Kouban 00:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * There ARE two OVAs that I didn't notice previously, can someone confirm if Compact actually has material from that? Xenon Zaleo 04:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Emperor Muge's appearance in Compact 2/Impact is taken from the Requiem for Victims OAV. Kouban 01:23, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Space Runaway Ideon
This was recently added to Space Runaway Ideon, but such details don't really belong there. It probably fits in this article, but I can't tell where:


 * The Ideon and aspects of its respective series make appearances in the popular Super Robot Wars series of anime mecha crossover games. It specifically appears in Super Robot Wars F Final, and the recently released Super Robot Wars Alpha 3. In the latter, it is widely considered the deadliest unit in the game. While its Ideon Gauge takes some preparation to raise to full power, the reward for doing this is a devastating attack that can literally wipe out entire maps of enemies in one shot. Due to this, it is often refered to as The Zeorymer of Alpha 3. This is due to the said mech being powerful to the point of unbalance in Super Robot Wars MX.

Hope someone else can figure this out! &mdash;Tarnas 04:55, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

It comes from the Japanese version, and I guess the Japanese Wikipedians think there is a good place for it.--Skyfiler 22:31, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Evangelion
This is also way too detailed for the Neon Genesis Evangelion article, where can it fit here?


 * Evangelion, and its mecha, characters, and storyline elements have made numorous appearances in the Super Robot Wars series by Banpresto. Its first inclusion was in Super Robot Wars F Final, and was something of a big surprise to many of the series' fans. The Evangelion characters and mecha have since become extremely popular characters in the series, and have appeared in many more since then including Super Robot Wars Alpha, Alpha 3, 64, and MX. They're main contribution as units is their AT Fields. The Eva units are literally the tanks of the group being able to take many hits as their AT Fields can block a variety of hits with no damage. They are good for attracting attacks to distract away from the other units and give them an opportunity to attack. This is of great use in Alpha 3 specifically, where units can be put together in squadrons; the Evas can protect the other units in this form. The Evas, however, also have a well balanced arsenal. Often times later in the game they get attacks that are actually quite powerful, such as a draw style sword which the Eva-01 can use. This weapon is often seen in model kits but never made an appearance in the actual television series.

&mdash;Tarnas 06:09, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think it fits here, unless we balance it with other mechas. That's why it is in the Neon Genesis Evangelion article. I remember reading this paragraph in the japanese version of the Neon Genesis Evangelion article.

SDF Macross
"Macross (adapted outside Japan as the first part of Robotech)"

This line seems to me to deserve re-phrasing. It suggests that Super Dimensional Fortress Macross is not available outside Japan, which it is. ADV recently took over the license from AnimEigo, and a new box-set has just appeared on the shelves. SDF Macross has even been dubbed for the first time - the first time as SDF Macross that is.

&mdash;Soluzar 08:20, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Naming
I renamed some of the Alpha series of games because of the wrong translation.

Namely, Super Robot Wars Alpha 2-> 2nd Super Robot Wars Alpha and Super Robot Wars Alpha 3 -> 3rd Super Robot Wars Alpha


 * These are not mistakes, unless you think that "World War 2" is an incorrect translation of 第二次世界大戦 (dai-ni ji sekai taisen)


 * Translation isn't about being direct, it's about conveying the correct meaning. In English, putting the "2nd" or "3rd" in front of the name itself makes little to no sense. This should probably be changed back for the sake of grammer. But I'd like to get some sort of consensus first. Xenon Zaleo 17:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd support this. Took me a while to even realize there was a SRWA2 page set up because its page uses that construction. ShaleZero 21:22, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

About SRTW, if you look at the back of the box you'll see "Warning !" in big bold letters, previous handheld games of the series were featuring the meaning of their title in the same way (like J for Jugement ), so I think it's pretty easy to figure what W means. Tetho 14:12, 1 june 2007 (GMT)

Separate pages for each game
This is indeed a good idea, however there is already a Wiki in progress which will one day be the home to detailed information about the various SRW games. Perhaps it would be advisable to link there instead of bloating the Wikipedia. At the present time it is far from complete, but more information will be added in the future.

&mdash;Soluzar 08:25, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

"see also"
I think the links in the "see also" section should go to the Banpresto Originals page/category.
 * They are already there... but a link to the whole Banpresto Originals category may be more appropriate.--Skyfiler 21:29, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Final Dynamic Special
Who changed the picture of the Final Dynamic Special?! The cut in from Destiny was much better than the new picture. The Double Zeta Gundam picture isn't all that good either.

Categorization
Why were the categories removed from the article? I have remedied this and request an explanation. Kouban 04:49, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it's because Category Super Robot Wars is already a sub-category of those categories. L-Zwei 05:12, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Correct. I probably should have said that in my initial edit summary, my apologies; however, please do not revert such edits as "vandalism" ("rvv"), because that is an unwarranted assumption of bad faith.--SB | T 05:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I apologize for mislabeling it as vandalism. However, I think the categories should remain on this article for clarity's sake. Kouban 16:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

New category
I created a new category "Featured in the Super Robot Wars Series." to include the robots not covered by the "Banpresto Originals" category, like Full Metal Panic!, Evangelion, Gundam, etc. --Nohansen 18:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Catergized the shows and the Mecha's
May I tell that not all people can tell whats real mecha or super mecha. to solve this problem we the people of wikipedia should catergized the show's into there respective genre's and the in game mecha's as well like "Gundam" in Real robot and "Getter Robo" in super Robot. Make sense every one? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.212.202.80 (talk) 21:07, 28 January 2007 (UTC).


 * I can tell you that if you can find an official source catergorizing which robot is real type and which is super type, feel free to add it to wikipedia. If no source could be found(which is definitely the case right now for quite a lot of years and arguements among fans are heated up on which is which) then per WP:NOR there should be no original research in the article.  Some Banpresto origins can be listed though, SRX team R series are real type and SRX is Super type. (sourced from OG) MythSearchertalk 03:36, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It seems to be that the link to the original series would be enough to tell if it were Real or Super. Make sure the RR and SR links are in the article.  If the reader really wants to know, they can read those articles, then check.  Otherwise, I think any reader who would care to know which is Real and which is Super would know enough about to difference to be able to tell on their own. SAMAS 19:39, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Gameplay
What makes this a strategy title? There needs to be more discussion of gameplay. The article could use some gameplay pics as well. I think this article spends too much time discussing individual mecha without painting a broader picture of the game. SharkD 01:06, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I would like to put some screencap to show some gameplay element, but doubt that screencap from emulator would be allow here. L-Zwei 05:46, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Text is allowed, however. So, why don't you add that? SharkD 16:50, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I just don't known how to explan MAP attack or combo attack amy better without image. Other aspect is already covered, though can be expand. L-Zwei 17:13, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Dividing this article down
I think this article needs severe trimming down. At a minimum, the section listing all the games should be moved to its own page, and perhaps the list of series included as well. Kouban 05:37, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

BattleMoonWars
Perhaps someone who has some experience (I couldn't wiki my way out of a paper sack) could mention BattleMoonWars in the Triva section?


 * First question, what is BattleMoonWars? Some fanmade-game? L-Zwei 05:42, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Fan made, SRW type game with featuring charaters from various series produced by the company Type Moon. Of course it should not be mentioned here, there are dozens of other fan made SRW type games out there, Like the Super Majouko Wars(Super little witches war) and Seiden. MythSearchertalk 09:20, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Wii SRW game?
Has this actually been confirmed? 82.32.29.181 13:38, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Until a concrete announcement has been made, I'm removing this from the article. Kouban 01:48, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:SuperRobotWarsAlphaGaidena.jpg
Image:SuperRobotWarsAlphaGaidena.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:45, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:SRRT Mecha.jpg
Image:SRRT Mecha.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 17:20, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Cleaning up this article
There is just too much information on this page, and some of it is far too detailed. Some of it is even stated multiple times, like the bit about the English games, which mentioned at the top then mentioned again near the bottom.

We could really use some trimming down, look at the Fire Emblem page, there is just minimal and basic information about the various gameplay features.

As for the English game section on the bottom, should fan translations be even mentioned along with official titles?

--Kraker2k (talk) 21:26, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think this article need more than a simple cleanup. I suggest that it be wiped and rebuilt from the ground up. Kouban (talk) 01:27, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Screenshots
This article needs screenshots to illustrate the games. Here are my suggestions for screenshots (please note that using a different game for each shot might be desirable): Kouban (talk) 01:24, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Title screen (possibly from the first SRW)
 * Map showing multiple units, player and enemy (preferably using the color coding)
 * Battle sequence
 * Pre/post-stage dialogue (preferably from one of the English OG games)

move to "Super Robot Taisen"
I don't there exists a SRT game called "Super Robot Wars"; even the English releases carried the "Super Robot Taisen" name

discuss?  Elm-39 - T/C/N 02:33, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No, per the official English name IS Super Robot Wars (see background and if you cannot see the background, upper right hand corner) and per Naming convention of wikipedia that the common English name should be used.(since this is the English wiki) —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk 03:37, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, numerous games in the series use the english title "Super Robot Wars" on the packaging and in introductory movies, soundtracks, art books, etc. etc. Kouban (talk) 01:41, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Elm-39, you did not even tried to discuss, you asked, others opposed, and then you moved it anyway. This is not a reasonable move and we do not know why you moved it. It is a simple disruptive action of yours if you continue to do so. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk 16:26, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Elm-39 also seems to have moved a couple of related articles to use "Taisen" instead of "Wars"; see his move log. 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 18:39, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess before further discussion is made, I would like to address Elm-39 had already apologized on my talk page saying he had forgotten that he started a discussion here when he moved the pages. I will AGF and not further develop the issue about his moving of pages without consensus.  Yet, I guess I will still have to suggest moving those pages back to the more commonly used name. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  04:56, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I went ahead and moved them back after pointing out he'd moved them. Perhaps I should have stated that...? 「 ダイノ ガイ 千？！ 」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 18:45, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Nah, if they were already moved, don't bother about it anymore. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk 00:50, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

The official English releases use Super Robot Taisen, as seen on Atlus USA's Web site for the GBA Original Generation games. --Evice (talk) 22:48, 2 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Aside from that, SRW OG Gaiden's 2nd preview video (in Japanese) clearly shows "Super Robot Wars OG" in plain English at 0:13. Link here. E Wing (talk) 23:41, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Names for the Handheld games
Namely A, R, D and J. Here they have all been listed as Advance, Reversal, Destiny and Judgement, yet they have never been refereed to as such in any official form, the Japanese Banpresto website lists them by letter, so does JP Wikipedia. All I've seen are small mentions that have cropped up over the web where the game producers have told us "oh R stands for this" - It might be nice to put a mention on each page that mentions this, but they are not the official names, and from what I can tell, SRWA's "A" does not stand for "Advance" but rather "Another" - so this is a mistake. Kraker2k (talk) 00:03, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Compatible Hero Series
Hi. It seems that no one created before the wikipedia page of Compatible Hero Series. Well, the page was created yesterday and now I'm adding the games. Later I will translate some stuff from the Japanese wikipedia, and add some more info. If you are into this series, please feel free to improve the article. :) Thanks.--Hydao (talk) 06:41, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

"Super Robot Taisen"
Thought about this elsewhere, came here, but noticed the odd title. I've read the above talk, and I know "Super Robot Wars" is a commonly used and officially recognized translation, but "Super Robot Taisen" is still used as the logo, as well as the name of various localized games in the series, every single time.

It should be at "Super Robot Taisen (series)"; "Super Robot Wars" (and its abbreviation, "SRW") should be directly mentioned as an alternate and common title (even now, the reverse isn't true). Failing that, this should at least be the standard for any localized games in the series. Despatche (talk) 21:39, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The most common name should be used, per WP:NAME. 1) most of the article used SRW since most are not localized. 2) SRW is more likely to be searched since it consist of English words, instead of transliteration of Japanese.  —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  01:49, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * But the most common name isn't "Super Robot Wars", it's "Super Robot Taisen".


 * There have actually been multiple games released under that title in English speaking countries; whether it's English or not (and whether it can be "easily searched" or not) is entirely irrelevant. In fact, more people will look for "Super Robot Taisen" anyway, since that title is actually used. If you're worried about Google hits, both names give similar numbers but "Super Robot Taisen" manages to do a bit better for the aforementioned reason. Also, what Wikipedia is doing now isn't indicative of anything but the amount of work that must be done if any change is going to happen. Finally, and again, there is no game in the series that is properly called "Super Robot Wars"; it has always been an official and commonly used translation (very close to a nickname), and nothing more or less.


 * Aside from all of this, the way it is written now is incredibly misleading. It implies that "Super Robot Wars" is the name of this series in English speaking countries, which is simply false, and yet another reason why "Super Robot Wars" should be identified as an alternate title, much like "Sonic 3" to "Sonic the Hedgehog 3". I'm not sure what the problem is. Despatche (talk) 18:52, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * How have reliable English-language sources referred to the series as? I know that Anime News Network has used "Super Robot Wars" in their news coverage. —Farix (t &#124; c) 23:34, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Despatche, did you even bother to look, or better, read WP:NAME?
 * Recognizability – article titles are expected to be a recognizable name or description of the topic.
 * Naturalness – titles are expected to use names and terms that readers are most likely to look for in order to find the article (and to which editors will most naturally link from other articles). As part of this, a good title should convey what the subject is actually called in English.
 * Precision – titles are expected to use names and terms that are precise, but only as precise as is necessary to identify the topic of the article unambiguously. For technical reasons, no two Wikipedia articles can have the same title.[2] For information on how ambiguity is avoided in titles, see the Precision and disambiguation section below and the disambiguation guideline.
 * Conciseness – titles are expected to be shorter rather than longer.
 * Consistency – titles are expected to follow the same pattern as those of similar articles. Many of these patterns are documented in the naming guidelines listed in the Specific-topic naming conventions box above, and ideally indicate titles that are in accordance with the principal criteria above.
 * SRW is not only recognizable by most users, it is also the official English name, which naturaly should be used more when English speaking users look/search for in order to find an article. Also, about search results, the first page of google searching for SRT gives at least 3 pages with title SRW instead, including a youtube video.  The second page also has 3 SRW links, including the official Japanese page.  If you do a "-" search, that is, excluding SRW from SRT search, you get about 300k less results for SRT(SRW -SRT got 4.3M while SRT - SRW got 4.01M).  SRT got that many hits are also due to the fact that some of the games published in that title gathered multiple commercial sites that sell the products, while SRW hits comes more from actual reviews, actual number of games, news and such.  When names have similar hits, use the more common one, in all English, have more games with this title(since most are not localized), and the Official name should be rather common sense.  —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  02:03, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Here are my search results: Super Robot Wars (3,660,000 hits), Super Robot Taisen (2,310,000 hits). Note that this is an exclusive search of English language websites and filtering out Wikipedia mirrors. But the real issue here is by what name is the series most frequently referred to by reliable English-language sources (WP:COMMONNAME). —Farix (t &#124; c) 02:24, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry I'm late... "Super Robot Taisen" is the "official English name"; why would you deny this when it continues to be used? Unless you can find me anything concrete from the distributors of the game in primarily-English-speaking countries that suggests "Super Robot Wars" is somehow supposed to supersede what's on the boxes and the official websites for these games, then it can only be considered a more-or-less official nickname used in Japanese territories that some English-speaking websites picked up however they did. The search results are too similar to make a serious difference, and actually using search results as evidence requires a very very specific situation, which the results themselves say this is not. Despatche (talk) 05:01, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * per WP:NAME, use the most common and most likely to be searched, thus we use Bill Clinton and not his official full name. Also, you are denying SRW is the official name, and is a perfectly valid name to be used as well.  You cannot provide a valid reason to switch to something non English according to policies, that is a very simple reason to counter argue your official English title which is less common and non English thus less people will search such term.  We do not need to prove SRW supersede anything, we only need to prove it follows policies of Wikipedia.  You claim of search results are very similar, so why move the page when your suggested term is not more commonly used, not English, used in fewer games listed in this page?  —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  11:24, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, you're just being silly. I think you're reading too hard into these policies, and you don't seem to care about what has happened here. Whether it is another language (technically, it isn't, being romaji, but that's not relevant here) doesn't mean anything when the actual distributors of the game for English countries use this title. It's all over the game itself and the games' actual websites. You can't simply write that all away with guesstimates and "incredibly specific"s.


 * To put it bluntly about your search results, "Megaman" garners far more hits over "Mega Man" than "Super Robot Wars" does over "Super Robot Taisen". I didn't believe it myself until I saw it. Search engine results very rarely decide anything unless it's clear that a particular title simply isn't used. Here, that is not the case. In nearly every possible "general" search, the above comparison is true; it doesn't mean much because it's not so decisive (COMMONNAME isn't a popularity contest). So considering how close the search results are, combined with the fact that every single game released in English speaking countries was properly titled "Super Robot Taisen" all over the game itself and on the games' official websites, defending "Super Robot Wars" as a more appropriate main title is simply ridiculous.


 * Aside from that, "Super Robot Wars" isn't simply "the official name". The "official name" is still スーパーロボット大戦, and while the Japanese wiki does seem to claim that "Super Robot Wars" is the English title, this is not actually used when games are released in English-speaking countries, except by fans of course. Someone trying to figure out info about the game is going to recognize that their box says "Super Robot Taisen" on it. Again, I understand fighting against "technically correct but rarer titles", but this is simply not that (are you even noticing how the full names for all those examples on WP:NAME are really really long?). There's nowhere else to turn. Despatche (talk) 03:06, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You are not trying to follow any policy while disregarding all evidences not in your favour. Technically the Official English name is SRW, SRT is the transliteration of the Japanese name.  You have what, 5~8 games in the OG series officially published in English and think of those not? Original series 1~4+EX, and a bunch of English alphabet titles and alpha 1~3+a 1.5.  The English Wiki is not only for the NA market, it includes foreign countries that speak and write English as well, which includes the Asian area and thus Japan, so your Official North American title is not the most prominent one.  Also, using a transliteration while an English title can be used is simply strange.  The google search result is NOT the only argument here, but it obviously does not help YOUR case, which you put at the very top But the most common name isn't "Super Robot Wars", it's "Super Robot Taisen".. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  09:58, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You claim I ignore policy when I have explained to you exactly why that policy doesn't work like you want it to, and I provide legitimate examples as to why and other things to look out for; you have blatantly ignored all of this.


 * These games do not seem to be released in any other countries besides Japan and the United States, so only their markets should be taken into consideration for this series. Japan does not predominantly speak English while the United States does, so this article should take the US market into consideration before the Japanese market. Perhaps "Wars" does draw slightly more results with a Google search, but this is dangerous to go by in any case, as a lot of results can't be considered reliable sources. As I explained, it can only work if the results are incredibly decisive and if there is nothing else particularly barring their use, which we do have here. For all you say about "I have many arguments", a lot of your statements rely on Google search to work effectively.


 * Meanwhile, "Taisen" may be the romanization of a Chinese term via Japanese rules, but this term has actually been used by the companies producing these games in English-speaking countries such as the US, while "Wars" has not. This is important. On a side note, despite that you're attempting to fight against a romanization here, your logic could easily be used to argue for the use of any romaji title given for pretty much any game released throughout Asia, completely ignoring the various other countries who predominantly speak English and have had releases of such a game in their own country. Maybe we should use "Rockman" for all Mega Man articles; I mean, Asia knows it by that name, right? Cognitive dissonance, anyone?


 * You really don't have any "evidence" anymore. This is starting to get into fanboy territory on your part. Is there anything meaningful to go against what I've said, or are you going to hand-wave it away again without explaining why?


 * Obviously, I'm not arguing against the use of "Super Robot Wars" altogether, as it's still an important concept for a primarily Japanese series of products; this title should be mentioned almost as frequently as "Super Robot Taisen" itself would be. What I'm arguing for is this: seeing as this is the English Wikipedia, "Super Robot Wars" doesn't have any place in the main title given that it was never marketed under that name in English-speaking countries. There's nothing "technically correct but rare" about this. Your claims of "few will search for it" do not make sense for this reason; a typical person would notice that "Super Robot Taisen" is all over the game itself and the games' websites, so why would they search for "Super Robot Wars" unless they already knew about the series as a fan? You'd think that such a typical person (not a fan) would be more confused as to why the Wikipedia article is titled "Super Robot Wars", even when the appropriate individual game articles are titled "Super Robot Taisen" and many other English databases use the latter title, no? Despatche (talk) 23:33, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Because as Farix mentioned above, reliable sources also use SRW instead of SRT? SRW is a pretty fan based franchise, especially the OG series is relatively much newer than the old series and it is the only series ported.  Most knew the game as SRW before it was ported, now if you hold this argument like say, 20 years from now, it would be highly likely that SRT will be more common in the English speaking community(if things don't change), instead of just showing up in commercial sites selling the games.  Currently, the previews, reviews sites mostly include SRW to let people know what the games actually are.  Yes, it may be all over the games, but it is still not as commonly used as SRW, and if the few who search for SRT will get redirected to SRW anyway, and can read for themselves to understand what was going on, I don't see any major confusion here.  You assumption of more English db using SRT title is pretty much countered by Farix link to ANN up there, before you using this argument.  —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  09:38, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The only way to settle this argument is to start looking at which name the reliable sources are using.


 * Super Robot Wars: ANN, Crunchyroll, Hulu
 * Super Robot Taisen:
 * Both: Japanator, IGN, Kotaku, GamePro
 * —Farix (t &#124; c) 10:07, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Your ANN link seems to indicate it should be in "Both" (not to mention that a large portion of the ANN results won't be reliable anyway; news only, please), and the Crunchyroll and Hulu links are the same (I can't find anything for Hulu). The Crunchyroll link is also for a specific anime, which doesn't really help much (not to mention that this is predominantly a video game series). And since you enjoy numbers, searching on Kotaku, GamePro, and even IGN all give more results for "Super Robot Taisen" (IGN gives me exactly 1 extra :P).


 * What is happening: usage of the two names is too similar to choose one based on that alone, with Super Robot Wars getting a very slight edge (never decisive, and if it's because of fan usage, that's something to be frowned upon), and apparently this isn't always the case. Further, Super Robot Taisen is a primarily Japanese series, and nearly every time "Super Robot Wars" has been used from what I've seen, it's to refer to a Japanese-only game, and as shown "Super Robot Taisen" has been used commonly as well. Again, the fact that "Super Robot Taisen" is currently and properly used by English publishing companies ends up being the tiebreaker here, at least for now. Blah blah Mega Man blah blah probably more examples blah blah. If the situation changes in the future, then that's obviously fine.


 * Oh, and I should point out GameFAQs, actually being a reliable source when the "game data" pages are the only thing taken into account. Every single game in the database uses Super Robot Taisen: Wars search Taisen search Despatche (talk) 12:05, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I failed to see how GameFAQ, a user upload site without editorial oversight is reliable according to Wikipedia standards, also, there are some files that actually use SRW. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk 15:00, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe you missed this: actually being a reliable source when the "game data" pages are the only thing taken into account; that is to say, the (usually) horrible FAQs and reviews are not important here. You ignored this and went right for the user-submitted content, which matches up perfectly with everything you've said on this subject so far... very interesting. Despatche (talk) 09:33, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I still fail to see why that is reliable. I don't see them having an editorial oversight to those data, and those titles seemed to come straight from the common file in the user edited section in the FAQ. Anyone can create their own non user submitted website and put up terms, how do you establish GameFAQ to be reliable in those data? Because they use your preferred titles? —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  05:03, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * What are you even talking about anymore? Whatever, look here. Despatche (talk) 09:55, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, that's wrong over a month ago Gamefaqs was changed from a situation source to an unreliable source as per this discussionWikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Sources. The main page mentions to reason to be that info is user-submitted and there is mo evidence of editorial oversight so it can't be used as a reliable source.--70.24.215.48 (talk) 01:28, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh! But why do we have a template for a site that's an unreliable source? Despatche (talk) 08:06, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Likely because Gamefaqs was listed a a situational source before the current consensus to delist it and I believe the site was used for to source release dates previously. The template was also created almost a year before the delisting meaning that it is simply out of date.--70.24.215.48 (talk) 01:20, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page not moved per discussion. - GTBacchus(talk) 05:32, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Super Robot Wars → Super Robot Taisen – Alright, here we are. As of August 26, 2011, "Super Robot Taisen" appears to be the most appropriate title for this article (read: this series of games), with "Super Robot Wars" regarded as a highly used but only semi-official alternate title, all things considered; what I'm looking for is along the lines of "Super Robot Taisen (スーパーロボット大戦), also known as Super Robot Wars, is a series of tactical role-playing video games produced by Banpresto..." See the (lengthy) discussion on the talk page for more details. Despatche (talk) 13:23, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose Above consensus opposes you, and there is no actual point in doing so other than your own preference. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk 17:51, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Oppose for now. The above discussion shows that "Super Robot Wars" is the more common name used by reliable English-language sources. —Farix (t &#124; c) 21:05, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment Mythsearcher, you continue to insist that I have some agenda, yet you seem to be the one insisting we do things "your way", as noted by nearly everything you've said to date. Farix, you clearly haven't bothered to read the discussion, where I make it clear that "Super Robot Wars" isn't just "the more common name", and that in this situation, "the more common name" isn't the entire issue. Instead of bothering with this discussion, the two of you have chosen to ignore all else said and refuse to answer my arguments and questions, then claiming there's somehow "discussion" or "consensus". The only thing this discussion has shown anyone is that we should do things Mythsearcher's way, that Farix approves of this, and that we have about a million other articles to move on the same grounds. Despatche (talk) 00:51, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Despatche, you wanted to do things your way does not necessary mean others want to do so. I do not see you having any agenda, I have never stated anything like that. I am only stating that in the above discussion, your grounds are rejected by facts.  Your claim of majority are all countered, reliable sources listed by farix showed a majority of SRW or both even with your counter argument of gameFAQ, and there is no real need to move the page, and it would seem that you are pretty much the only one who insist on doing so.  —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  15:12, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Support For now, i'm looking up reliable sources. At the moment IGN, Gamespot, Gamespy, and 1up seems to refer to it as "Super Robot Taisen" However Kotaku appears to refer it as Super Robot Wars too. Atlus also seems to refer it as "Super Robot Taisen" shown here. Super Robot Wars sounds like something rather ambiguous to be confused with another series with the exact same name which could possibly be why it shows up more.Bread Ninja (talk) 02:08, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment The above searches were done in quotations, so "Super Robot Wars" does not include results that only have "Robot Wars". Also, the search was done with the "NOT" syntax, so "Super Robot Wars" does not include results with "Super Robot Taisen" and vice versa.  Gamespot actually uses both if you click into the results, and some links are completely empty while others seems to be unreliably user submmited. Samespy refers to the newest game as [SRW] so this is also a both source.  1up is the same.  SRT is only a transliteration used in the few NA English releases, SRW is the official original term and have more results in google searches.  I am not saying SRW's usage dominates over SRT, but I see no point in supporting an unnecessary move which was pretty much a WP:POINT demonstration by a user who failed to accept the discussion up there.  BTW, more game titles listed here used SRW, since most of the series were not NA localized.  —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  15:12, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment What are you talking about? You have read almost none of what has been said here, and you insist on choosing not to do so. There was absolutely no "discussion" on your part. All you did was pick VERY specific statements and feebly attacked them, then claiming there was "consensus". Why are you trying to bring up WP:POINT? Have you even read that guideline? Do you really know what kind of behavior that is? All I'm trying to do is get the article to its proper place, just like with Ghosts'n Goblins, Dariusburst, and every other article where a bad title has spread across the internet for zero reason.


 * "Super Robot Taisen" is still the name given to every single game; there is no "Super Robot Wars" on the box, no matter the region of release (and I doubt there ever will be, but that's beside the point). These titles should not be using "Super Robot Wars" at all because that's not the game's name. Even when the developer makes note of a translation somewhere, we shouldn't be enforcing it as the "main title" of anything unless they do it themselves, which they really haven't yet. As is, it's an "official translation" and a nickname, as the name isn't used when these games are released in English-speaking countries, period. Why do you insist on ignoring this important detail, of all details? Despatche (talk) 01:56, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I do believe that there is a bit of controversy. the only sub series to release was "Original Generations" and the anime adaptation names it "Super Robot Wars" as well. So it's a tough one to decipher. I may have voted Keep but its still hard to fully support it when there are some-what equal amount of releases calling it "wars" as much "taisen".Bread Ninja (talk) 08:41, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The world consists of countries that speak English outside of North America, Despatche, SRT is only the NA localization by Atlus. The official translation is SRW, and SRT is the official Trasliteration.  Translation and transliteration are two different things.  I am not saying we cannot use a transliteration as the title, this is not directly related to opposing the move,(only that I think a complete English title would be more friendly to most English users when both names are not dominatingly used over the other) I am just saying your claim of official translation is technically incorrect in the field of language translation.  —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  16:28, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I said that "Super Robot Wars" is an official translation, and that "Super Robot Taisen" is the official title given to every English release, as well as the official title of these games in their country of origin (Japan). Yes, "スーパーロボット大戦" and "Super Robot Wars" are used together in Japan, but スーパーロボット大戦 is what actually makes it onto the box, and now a transliteration is being used for English releases. This, combined with the fact that there is no real preference of the two names across the English-speaking internet, should make it clear that "Super Robot Taisen" is the best title right now. If it happens that Atlus manages to release the next game as "Super Robot Wars", then "Super Robot Wars" would become the best title. Despatche (talk) 13:54, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Like I said, if at least the Asia area used the English title SRW in its releases' manual, your argument of SRT being the official title given to every English release is very weak since more titles are not released in NA but every title during and after the PS/SS era were released in Asia officially. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  18:06, 30 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment the games that have been officially released in english were given the name "Super Robot Taisen". As for 1up and gamespot my bad. however, as for "Super Robot Wars" being the official? i'm not so sure. the original, is most likely true as its release english release has been long since. And as for the search i was referring to "Super Robot Wars" being an ambiguous name that anything other than this series could affect.Bread Ninja (talk) 19:44, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment For the officialness of Super Robot Wars in the original, way up there in the middle of this talk page, I had provided links to the original official Japan site whenever they used short forms, they used SRW instead of SRT, the upper left banner used Super Robot War Official website, the OG anime used SRW as well.  The 20th anniversary site is the same, SRW and Super Robot Wars, the premium members club actually is called the Super Robot Wars Premium Members club, also notice the official site banner on the right using SRW and Super Robot Wars as well.  If we look at the packaging gallery, 2nd G, 4th S, F, F Final(PS), Complete Box, 2nd(PS), 3rd (PS), EX(PS) all got Super Robot Wars on it, this did not even put into account that the manual of other games, like 3rd alpha, got Super Robot Wars written on every single page corner next to the pagenation.  Long before the localization to North America, Super Robot Wars was used in the Asian area that uses English quite often, like Hong Kong and Singapore, since games are just imported without translation.  I anticipate that it will be way more confusing to users who are not from NA or came here without knowing the game too much before hand if the title is changed to SRT but the info box on the right said the first game is called Super Robot Wars while the latest release are called the "n"th Super Robot Wars "X" most of the time since only the OG series was localized and transliterated to SRT.  Yes, we can explain it in the intro like the nom proposed, but we can also explain it in the intro the other way around with even less confusion.   —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  16:21, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That these games are not properly released outside of Japan and America tells me that the "rules" would be the same for any Asian country as it would be for Japan. Again, "Super Robot Wars" is not an official title, but an official translation and a "nickname" commonly used alongside the regular title ("スーパーロボット大戦") in Japan, or simply the romanization of that regular title ("Super Robot Taisen") in America. Thus, what's being exported is either a Japanese or an American game, and with either choice, they would be receiving a game titled either "スーパーロボット大戦" or "Super Robot Taisen", and the latter is a romanization of the former. In no instance are they ever receiving a game titled "Super Robot Wars" accordingly, so that title again falls to whatever use the English speakers of Hong Kong/Singapore/etc use it for (which brings up a lot of other issues that are nearly impossible to deal with, which is exactly why we try to avoid these situations), just like with any English speakers in Japan. Otherwise, if this article was moved to "Super Robot Taisen", so would the other articles, so there would be no confusion in that regard.
 * The other titles were never released in English, and thus it would be a pure disruptive act to move all of them to a transliteration title just because you want less confusion when the reason of the confusion is the title they never used. These games are properly released outside of Japan and America, they are just not localized in those areas.  For example, the official Asia releases have Chinese and English manuals(with the English SRW in it, thus the Official English title IS SRW in these areas) along with the Japanese manuals.  Your presumption of the game only released in Japan and America showed your tendency of Americanization of every aspect since you ignore anything out there that is different from America.  —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  16:22, 29 August 2011 (UTC)


 * More reliable academic sources, 2 academic paper, written in English, used "Super Robot Wars" when listing games: google scholar search (1 draft repeated result and 1 unreliable result) while a same search on "Super Robot Taisen" gave only 1 non-English result, possibly just using a transliteration. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk 16:37, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * In the "Super Robot Wars" search, the first uses "Animal Forest", so it's hard to tell exactly how that article was written (was it translated from Chinese, for example). The second is drawing specific results from searching tags, so they were bound to find something on a "Super Robot Wars". Either way, neither of these contribute to the situation we have here, as neither source has the authority to decide what the official name of this series is or isn't. Despatche (talk) 07:30, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Commonality. If academic sources used SRW, and none used SRT, then it showed what the academic field preferred.  Also, your speculation is out of the question, since the article is written in English.  You don't speculate something to be translated from Chinese when the most obvious logical deduction is that most Japanese titles comes with SRW in its manual.  And, please sign your posts.  —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  16:22, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh for God's sake, you're being completely ridiculous. Did you read why I even brought that up, and notice that I was simply providing it as an example of why I might have been confused? Despatche (talk) 07:30, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You are using your own confirmation bias here. You think that since there might be confusion in using a title YOU are not familiar with, so every single title must be moved to your favourite one?  —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  18:06, 30 August 2011 (UTC)


 * we still shouldn't make assumptions if it's a transliteration. But what i'm wondering if the naming has changed after OG has released in english.Bread Ninja (talk) 18:43, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I am saying it is technically a transliteration in the language sense, there can be no argument in that since that is technically what the word transliteration means, unless you want to argue that it is a transcription, which pretty much is the same thing in this context, if you prefer Romanization, that can also do. Taisen is the transliteration of 大戦 as listed in the intro.  For example, Sakura Wars is also the same, Sakura Taisen is the transliteration of it and in this case, Sakura Wars is the official English in both Japan and English release(while Sakura is still a transliteration and not the translation Cherry Blossom since the original Japanese title used katakana instead of kanji or hiragana).  The problem in Super Robot Wars is that the official English release for the OG games(only games localized) is called Super Robot Taisen, with speculation of them being possible copyright problems or the British TV show.  And obviously, only the NA localized version used SRT, all Japanese sources continued to use SRW since they never need to transliterate their own language.  Even the OG TV series which was released after the localization continued to use SRW in Japan.  —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  16:22, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've said again and again (and again!) that "Super Robot Taisen" is romaji, that it happens to be romaji of the original Japanese title, that "Super Robot Wars" is an official translation, and I have explained what each of these things means and what we should do with them. Your Sakura Wars comparison is yet another good point that works in my favor, if you can believe it.


 * I don't care about "Americanization" (you might have been able to infer this from my username), nor do I care about speculation; I care about getting the article where it needs to go, when it needs to go. Your petty accusations and hand-waving/blatant ignorance are getting ridiculous; you do not understand the implications of what you're doing, nor do you care.


 * I've been reasonable, so can't you be as well? Despatche (talk) 07:30, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You are being unreasonable all along. Your claim of official title ignored other countries, therefore I said you are trying to Americanize things.  I have no idea what your user name means, and I have no interest in finding it out before you said I inferred that by your user name, and I still do not know what it means after a quick Google search(which is pretty much as far as I am interested to get me so far). You may not have been intentionally doing so, but obviously you are doing things the American way, that is assuming your own way is the best and everything must go that way, and anything else is simply unreasonable and wrong and you don't even care to learn about it.  Sakura Wars is a good example that the original Japanese title used katakana in writing Sakura, not kanji nor hiragana, thus indicating a special meaning in it, and not referring to the tree/flower, so it would be silly to use a transliteration/transcription on the title.  Yet Super Robot Taisen is written in Kanji, and Taisen means War(s) especially when the official used that translation, so there is not reason to change it to the "official English release title" you claimed to be for the same reason as Sakura Wars is Wars, not Taisen.  Also, you failed to provide an actual reasoning all along for the MOVE.
 * Claiming SRT as the official English release title does not support your argument to an overwhelming status to over come the official English title given by the original release.
 * The number of usage on SRT is not overwhelmingly used over SRW, and it is the other way around anyway, SRW got more results in both normal search and scholar search.
 * Most popular game sites either used both titles or just SRW.
 * Both titles will cause confusion, and SRW will not cause more since both have similar search results.
 * You called for a blanket move of ALL titles, including non-English release ones, to SRT, which have no basis since they do NOT have official English SRT titles, their official English names are SRW.
 * These arguments do NOT have enough strength to call for a definite result as to which article title should be used, but it showed that you do not have enough grounds for a move, which is enough to support my oppose !vote. Like I said, if you brought up a move discussion maybe like 5 years from now, when the English speaking society have more users using SRT, then you may have a case for a move.  This is along the guidelines set in WP:TITLECHANGES, Editing for the sole purpose of changing one controversial title to another is strongly discouraged. If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed.  Per the above 5 points, you do not have a strong case to change the title.
 * Along with these grounds to keep it in SRW per WP:NAMINGCRITERIA:
 * SRW is more common as of now.(not overwhelming, but still more common and thus naturally used as a search title for the series)
 * SRW is more recognizable in English, since it IS English, and it clearly describe the series' plot and game play. (see also WP:UE)
 * SRW is the official English name by the original company AND Asian releases in all titles.(Consistency)
 * Also, per Official names, which states that They should always be considered as possibilities, but should be used only if they are actually the name most commonly used.(in which, both SRW and SRT can be considered official and SRW is more commonly used), English usage overrides usage in other languages(in which, SRW is English, SRT is not.).
 * Like I said in the very beginning in the above section, when you first proposed the move, The most common name should be used, per WP:NAME., you failed to provide a counter argument to this, while also failed to prove that the most common title is SRT, thus you do not have any grounds per many of these policies and guidelines from the very start. You tried to stall the discussion by using official, which is not useful in your case at all.  Keeping the SRW title is just a bit stronger in sticking with the policies and guidelines, IF originally the page was placed in the SRT title, and stayed there for a long time, then you would have had it your way, and I will not try to move the page since the two terms have such close results in commonality and lack of decisive reasons to do so.  —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  18:06, 30 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Oppose I have looked over all of the links and arguments above and visited the official website. The thing that pushed me over the edge is the big SRW in the top corner with Super Robot Wars underneath it. If the Company wanted the game to be called Super Robot Taisen in english it would use that name on the offical site --Guerillero &#124; My Talk  06:48, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sir, you're forgetting that those are Japanese-language websites, which wouldn't be a problem except the appropriate English-language websites use "Super Robot Taisen" (and that name has even been registered as a trademark by Banpresto themselves, apparently). That is the heart of all of this. Despatche (talk) 07:30, 30 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Oppose I have bought several of the games from Japan, many of the new ones come with SRW in some form plastered on the covers. A recent example being the Special Edition of SRWZ2, which clearly uses 'Wars' in full capital letters on the frint back, and spine. The official website also sports a brand new logo in the top left which again uses the 'SRW' abbreviation. The 15th and 20th Anniversary emblems also use 'SRW'.


 * The insistence on renaming the entire franchise page and every other subsequent game to the 'Taisen' name simply because of 3 games localised in NA is something I can't agree with. I'm just astounded by your lack of willingness to accept any argument given above; even your opening statement "regarded as a highly used but only semi-official alternate title" - How is 'Wars' a semi-official alternate title when the main company who produces these games use 'Wars' on every single of their product? Yes, 'Taisen' is a trademarked by Banpresto, but it's their property, they have to protect their copyrights. The official English Banpresto webpage uses 'Wars' in their company history when referring this game series.


 * Also, the NA DVD versions of the anime releases uses 'Wars' on their covers. Both The Animation (OVA) & Divine Wars (TV Series) use 'Super Robot Wars' in plain English on their covers: and here  Both of which were released after the two OG games.- Kraker2k (talk) 23:25, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * it's not about the original. But at this point, it's hard to put taisen if it's only known officially for the 3 games (and subjectively others that aren't technically through some sources). I think we should stick with Super Robot Wars, simply because it's much easier to handle due to english releases also having wars instead of taisen.Bread Ninja (talk) 08:12, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
 * So can we close this disscussion already? The nom did not come up with new grounds in supporting his proposal nor replied to my last post up there which listed clearly why others supported SRW and why per policy we should use SRW in more than 5 days(usually discussions in wikipedia end in 5 days when most discussion end) and since Bread Ninja was the only person supporting the move up there other than the nom and now you also changed to support the old title SRW, which means we have a pretty clear consensus here? Despatche, if you have any counter argument are replies, please state so, but I think this seems to be pretty solid consensus here, just like before. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  13:43, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The title
I am so glad I ejected myself from that "discussion".

The "official English title" doesn't matter, because the link is tenuous at best. A great example of when we should care is Attack on Titan, while a great example of when we shouldn't is Jojo's Bizarre Adventure; not a whole lot of explanation needed on why. This has almost nothing to do with the few localized titles, and everything to do with the product's original name; that name is "スーパーロボット大戦", not "スーパーロボットウォーズ". You will also never find furigana for "ウォーズ", but "たいせん" was once explicitly used for earlier games in the series and is still used for pretty much any other purpose. There's a reason why we keep using "taisen" as a romanization, and that reason needs to be studied; the same goes for every foreign work that is known under a different name elsewhere.

"Super Robot Taisen OG: Divine Wars". There are no real arguments against it; all consist of nonsense used to push the "convenience" agenda, which is deleterious to any fact-based encyclopedia. Treating "original names" above all others will solve this problem, as well as the problem of "nationalism". End of. Despatche (talk) 22:02, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Dude, you weren't being mature at all in the discussion. The official English series title is Super Robot Wars, regardless on what it was known as in Japan. That's like saying we should rename Mega Man to Rock Man or Soulcalibur to Soul Edge. Namcokid47 (talk) 03:03, 2 November 2017 (UTC)