Talk:Super Smash Bros./Archive 1

Fix Mewtwo
It currently says "template 7 next to Mewtwo under his inclusion in Brawl rather than "?" could a user fix it

Done, but in the future please start discussion at the bottom of the talk page and sign your posts with " ~ "→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  08:21, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Yoshi series
this page says says Yoshi is from the mario series, yet in both smash bros he has his own symbol (egg) that symbolizes yoshi series. is this going to be fixed? Mr.Jelly 8:32, 17 May 2007

Games that Young Link and Link debued in
Which games do you think should be listed for Link's debut? I think LOZ for Young Link and Zelda II for adult, since Link was an adult like he is in Super Smash Bros in Zelda II, but still a child in LOZ. Takuthehedgehog 11:57, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Y'know...we could just look at the debut info on their trophies...RememberMe? 17:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Smash Brothers Online
I'm going to remove that link, as a fan site known for being of notoriously poor quality and consists of 99% speculation of SSBB (and doesn't mention the other games in the series) does not belong here. Xubelox 23:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Poor quality my foot, but yeah. It's all speculation. Needs to be removed. RememberMe? 01:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Series or First Game?
Currently, it says the first game the characters appeared in, yet it says "Mario from Donkey Kong". I sounds like Mario was only from one game (Donkey Kong). I think It should say "Mario from the Mario Series", or at least, "Mario (debued in Donkey Kong). This goes for all other characters too. What are your thoughts? --Shadow2 18:33, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Is the Ice Climbers/Young Link/Mr. Game and Watch rumor false?
If I'm not mistaken, wikipedia is a website for displaying facts, not frivilous rumors, especially when no reliable sources for information(like www.smashbros) have been displayed. The rumor, however, is from a very dubious source, a 1up article leading to an even more dubious French site.

If no visible evidence, like a screenshot of those characters fighting, has them appearing; the information should be changed or disputed.

EDIT: Sorry for informing you people, the character part has already been changed

http://www.livewii.fr/news/9350/Des-nouvelles-tetes-pour-Super-Smash-Bros-Brawl.html http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3151290

(sigh) When will these people learn? It's a hoax. Unless Sakurai announces it himself, it's not true. I doubt an unreliable news source and a FAN VIDEO on Youtube is proof. It's only proof if it's listed on the official website. So we'll have to wait until the release or "if anything noteworthy comes out". Shadoman 14:46, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * For some reason, these people seem to believe anything they see. I say that if it isn't in an official trailer or on the official site (http://www.smashbros.com/en/main.html), we don't add it.  Unoriginal Username 02:52, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Non-playable fighters table fix
The non-playable fighters table needs several fixes. I propose that Giant Donkey Kong be removed (he is hardly a special character - large versions of nearly all of the characters are fought in the single-player modes and it's just a permanent version of the mushroom power-up). Also, Sandbag is not a fighter. Unless we include an "other characters" section he should probably be removed. The existences of Metal Mario and Dark Link can be tolerated as a reference to the N64 game and prominent characters in adventure mode, but they're questionable.


 * Dark Link and maybe even Metal Mario need to go. If we include characters like them, why not characters like "Giant Bowser" (not Giga Bowser) because he was in that one Event match (along with Tiny Peach and Tiny Mario)? 199.126.137.209 00:06, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * On Bowser's page in the Brawl site (http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/bowser.html), they state that by grabbing a "Smash Ball," he is able to breifly transform into Giga Bowser as his "Final Smash." I propose that a check-mark is placed in the Brawl section of Giga Bowser's apperences, with a note saying that it is playable in Brawl or somthing close to that. 209.40.132.121 15:56, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Protection request
People on the NSider Smash boards are having fun constantly vandalizing this page so that they can say "SO AND SO IS CONFIRMED!" or to prove that anyone can edit wikipedia by adding bogus info. Until this dies down, I suggest protection. 199.126.137.209 00:09, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with this although I am not totally sure on how to get a page protected, if it doesn't get protected i'll look into it. The Light6 08:30, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I have requested semi-protection which should stop the adding of incorrect inforation. The Light6 09:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Smash Syndicate Forums
I've seen this forum linked over and over again on all of the Smash Bros. related articles. This forum has a whopping 19 members, and I'm pretty sure that puts it in the unnotable department. So if anyone sees the forum linked on any of the SSB related pages, do your best and delete it. Paji out ^_^ Comrade Pajitnov 22:05, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Does Dark Link really have to be there?
Dark Link is merely a palette swap of Link, with all the same attacks and all. I don't think its required to put him in the NPC sections.What do you think?Aramjm 15:47, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I've removed the characters who aren't significantly different or original. Axem Titanium 18:00, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thanks Axem Aramjm 20:12, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Polygons and GameShark
Is it possible to play as the polygons via a GameShark? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mathsexpressions (talk • contribs) 19:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

Perfectly possible. Sign your comments please Aramjm 20:09, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Giga Bowser 1
Okay, I added some info to Giga Bowser's part of the article a few days ago, and you guys deleted it all without giving a reason. I saw info on the attacks and stuff like that for the 2 hands, so why can't Giga Bowser have similar information? Plus, his REAL size is just about the same as Regular Bowser at twice normal size. Giga Bowser was the right size inadventure mode, but was made bigger than normal in Event Match 51... I did the comparison by using my Action Replay to put a half sized Giga Bowser, next to a normal size Regular Bowser, and they were just about THE EXACT SAME SIZE! All the other info on attacks I added was also researched using my Action Replay... I'd like it if you guys KEPT this info. And if you do decide to delete it, then you may as well delete the attack info on the other NPCs as well, because they all have Attack info, yet Giga Bowser didn't... Joe EchidnaFox 18:29, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Yours was a little too detailed, so I made it shorter and better. Your welcome. Comrade Pajitnov 19:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd like to think that my edit summary was enough of a reason to delete it. I guess not. Maybe I should have linked it to WP:NOT. Axem Titanium 20:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I guess you didn't read what I said... I said if Master Hand, Crazy Hand, and the Wire Frames and Polygons can have info on their attacks, then why can't Giga Bowser have that type of info too. Since you removed Giga Bowser's attack info, then the same should be done for the other NPC's as well... Plus, your edit summary simply said "rv game guide"...Joe EchidnaFox 00:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Wait, never mind, I see some attack info was kept...Joe EchidnaFox 00:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Why Haven't they added that Giga Bowser is in Brawl? He is the final smash form of Bowser! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.153.26.208 (talk • contribs)
 * They have, it's been there since the update.

'''Giga Bowser has been confirmed to be playable in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, as Bowser's transformation, when Bowser performs his "Final Smash" attack. Bowser becomes much larger, but transforms back after a short time. [3] However a full non-playable-character version of Giga Bowser has not been confirmed for Brawl.''' Dengarde 00:19, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Super Smash Bros Brawl Princess Daisy
We can't put information in without sources, and I never saw anything about Daisy in Brawl. Depressio
 * Princess Daisy has a chance to get in Brawl and she is going to be in it for sure. And she will be using her own attacks for Brawl. 70.16.149.9 at verison 21

I sort of doubt it. They'll probably make her not an alternate costume of Princess Peach.Oubliette 03:19, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

What attacks could she have? Only the same as Peach.

Yoshi
Some videoes put on the official website say that Yoshi's Island is an arena in SSB:B. Surely this means Yoshi's in it? - Davros27
 * Yeah, you'd think, but no. It's still speculation. Axem Titanium 02:44, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree that it is speculation, but it is valid. For one, they are very unlikely to add an arena without the main character of that series/sub-series.  Also, Yoshi is a very iconic character, and I doubt Nintendo would take him out.  I think it would be very safe to assume Yoshi's in. Unoriginal Username 03:00, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * They just added a remix of the ending theme to Yoshi's Story on the official blog. While this doesn't mean that the character is confirmed, the post has the Yoshi's Egg Icon in the corner. I honestly would almost go ahead and assume that Yoshi, or some character from the Yoshi series, will be represented. 6:12am, 4 June 2007
 * If its the end to yoshis story then yoshi will be included81.155.82.100 16:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Why not put a check for Yoshi in Brawl if he is an obvious character to return in Brawl?

Let me say this once,''' YOSHI IS NOT OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED!!!! , until the OFFICIAL website DIRECTLY states he is, DON'T ADD HIM!- 0 4 1 7 4 4 ''' 05:37, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * No need to yell, guy. We all know that Yoshi's comin' back(I mean, why wouldn't he be?), but until The official SSBB. site states that he's in, he's still an unconfirmed character, so don't add him to the list just yet.Yoshiguy 20:35, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I absolutely HATE it when people speculate.→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  14:59, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

NPC Section: Aplhabatized or Not?
I aplhabatized this section a long time ago, but some people have changed it back. I guess they're trying to make it conform with the preceding section on NPCs, but I think it should be alphabatized to conform with the Characters table. What does everyone else think? Comrade Pajitnov 22:09, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Alphabetizing would help, as it would be easier to find a character if done. Aramjm 20:05, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Smash Bros. For DS
There's no credible evidence for a DS game in the works, and the source included in the article doesn't support its claim. It merely says that a DS game "is not currently in the works, but is certain in the future" or something to that effect.

This looks like fan speculation and nothing more... 66.178.141.175 23:06, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like he doesn’t want to say for sure that there won’t eventually be a DS version…"
 * I've removed it. A translator's interpretation that Sakurai is trying not to rule out the possibility of there ever being a DS version ever is far from a confirmation that Sakurai has expressed interest in making one. The translator merely stated this:
 * "#111-120: Sakurai is thanking this guy for sending him an email from Korea (I guess no American sent a Japanese email). And Sakurai also says that there is no helping dreaming about a DS version of SSBB, but right now people should look forward to the Wii version that they are working so hard on.
 * The paragraph was up for months, more than enough time for the original contributor to find sources. Dancter 23:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Removed Zero Suit Samus from the character list
She isn't a standalone character, as we all know, and is playable through in-game means, and thus is the same character. -Chao9999 07:35, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * However, the characters are still in the games, so taking them off the page doesn't make any sense. I'm adding them back in. Comrade Pajitnov 18:43, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * But it isn't a real character. They said that it was just going to be one Samus, and that one Samus can access the Zero Suit. So keeping them on the page doesn't make any sense. Because I think that keeping it on makes less sense than taking it off, I think it should be removed. ~ 71.126.173.111 22:19, 27 March 2007 (UTC) ~


 * That would be just fine and dandy, if it weren't for one tiny detail; it doesn't matter if Zero Suit Samus and Sheik aren't standalone characters, because they're still in the game. Just because you can't pick them from the character select screen (technically you can with Sheik, and we don't precisely know with Zero Suit Samus, it could change) does not mean they aren't in the game or anything. That's where removing them makes no sense. Comrade Pajitnov 00:59, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, they are each seperate characters with seperate movelists and names, and they are playable seperately, even though they transform into one another. Djcs410319 22:29, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Unlockable icons
I have been putting unclockable icons that look like this in the place of the  checks on the character list to indicate charaters that appear but must be unlocked to be played. However, someone has disagreed with me and changed it back. In order to prevent an edit war, I'd like the consensus of editors here. Should the unlockable characters be specially indicated with a or should they just keep the ? Here's what it'd look like:

Creationlaw 22:44, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * See below. Support.  I like having the padlock symbol to represent that it's an unlockable character.  --myselfalso 23:42, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Disagree. While such information is handy, it isn't really relevant to a simple series-wide list of characters. Besides, keeping just the brightly-colored X and check marks makes it much easier to distinguish at a glance which games a character has and has not appeared in. Jeff Silvers 00:23, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Disagree. I, being the original disagreer, agree with Jeff that it isn't really relevant to this article; it can appear in any amount of detail on the individual article. Also, while checks and Xs have a universal meaning, locks would only mean something to people who understand the concept of "unlockable content", a very small demographic, especially outside the video game bubble. Axem Titanium 05:00, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Support, but in addition to instead of as a replacement;  As Jeff says, removing the tick makes it harder to tell at a glance what's happening. Also, maybe add an explanatory line such as:
 * "[[image:Padlock.svg|15px|Unlockable]] indicates that the character is not initially available for play, but can be unlocked as a secret character after fulfilling certain requirements."
 * Now you've got an explanation for what [[image:Padlock.svg|15px|Unlockable]] means, and even in internal wiki link to further educate the non-gamers that Axem is championing. There! All happy! -masa  ♫  04:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Disagree, this just to trivial.→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  19:05, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Support for masa's proposal. --myselfalso 21:08, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Disagree- It over complicates the list, makes it look messy and will confuse people. Why not just put asterixes next to their names or something, with two next to Falcon and Ness to denote they're unique status? It's a good idea dude, but it'll only cause confusion. 24.128.53.252 16:59, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

So Do we add it? no one's voted in 14 days the ballot is
 * 4 for masa's proposal and
 * 3 against entirely

So when does the vote end?→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  00:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * There's no consensus, so nothing happens. An editor asked to combine the  and [[image:Padlock.svg|15px|Unlockable]] symbols in the same box, but we haven't seen an updated version including that.  --myselfalso 15:20, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Support However 24.128.53.252 idea about putting the asterixes in could work but instead of using asterixes put a number (like that next to Sheik's and Zero Suit Samus's) tick with the note at the bottem, however if this was implemted like that I think the number 1 should be used and the Sheik note moved to 2 and Zero Suit Samus moved to 3. The Light6 08:46, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I added a note pointing out unlockable characters which does not over complicate the list nor should it be confusing or hard to read. However if I shouldn't have done it then say so and if anyone else agrees it can be changed back. The Light6 11:06, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

New straw poll based of updated table
As there's no consensus for this proposal, I've changed the table to the better consented counterproposal.

I've updated the table with what I proposed to give a better idea. I've also standardised the width of the three game's columns, to space it out a bit more (likes neater in my opinion). Though I do like what The Light6 has done with the table, and wouldn't mind it being kept in that format, with the superscripted note numbers. -masa ♫  11:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Support

 * Support. I don't think it's trivial. I think it's useful information to include on the table.  --myselfalso 13:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose

 * Disagree, as I said before, this is just to trivial for an enclyclopeadic article.→'''
 * By the way, Don't Change the table on the actual page until a consuenus. 0 4 1 7 4 4 ''' 19:05, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Metal Mario not an NPC?
Any particular reason MM isn't included on the NPC list? His icon is a modified mushroom, not the standard one, he was a sub boss in the first game, and is a big part of the series. If anything he is an NPC clone character which should get noticed in the NPC section. - Unsigned.

Metal Mario is not a NPC created from scratch. It's mearly a adaption of regular Mario. This is also the reason Metal Luigi and Dark Link are not on the list.-- 0 4 1 7 4 4  00:25, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Isn't Giga Bowser just an "adapted" Bowser then? He just has a different model. Gurko 08:15, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Giga bowser is singificantly changed from regular bowser, his size style and attack have been altered. Look at previous disscussions before starting a new one-- 0 4 1 7 4 4  13:59, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

MM is not palette swapped, but is a near exact replica of Mario, but is metal. However, I would still like the NPCs in a different article. 75.46.224.173 01:49, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Unless you or someone else come up with a good reason to create a NPC article, nothing will happen. We tried to create a NPC article one time before, but that got deleted and got merged with this one. Too bad, so sad.. Life goes on.→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  04:28, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

No They Haven't!
Since when were Master Hand and Crazy Hand confirmed for Brawl??? They weren't in either video for Brawl, nor where they in any of the daily updates, as well as any interviews. So Ha! 68.195.110.145 15:13, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * True, just some people just like to say that some characters are conformed when their not even mentioned by Nintendo. Frankly this is getting really lame, Thanks for reverting it.→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  15:43, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I reverted another one of those. Its more annoying than lame. 71.144.80.223 01:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Some people think that some characters are obviously in Brawl(Yoshi for example)so they think they should put a check under the character's Brawl colomn.

Pokémon and Assist Trophies as NPCs
Just wondering, with the advent of the creation of assist trophies, which seem to be other game versions of the already published pokéball, shouldn't it gain a place as a NPC? I mean, Pikachu is a pokémon and same goes for Chikorita but Chikorita can't be played. Same goes with the Koopas like Koopa Troopa, Paratroopa and Hammer who also play roles in the series. Or the likes of ReDeads, Topis, Goombas, Samurai Goroh and etc...they're all PCs or NPCs in their own games but not in Smash. Aren't they considered NPCs too? And unlike Metal Mario and Dark Link, they're unique. These items also act like a real character with one move, some could even be knocked off stage like Charmander, Chansey, Goomba and Octoroks. Just wondering though. If there's too much, couldn't it have it's own page?deecee 07:39, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It should just be summarised into pokemon and assist traophies. Naming them all would be pointless.86.138.18.56 09:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, going into discussion about each Pokémon and assist trophy would just be too long for this article; however, a list of characters for each category of NPC would be great here, at least in my opinion. Just make sure they have internal links to each character's page, so people can get more info if they want it. Here's an example:

Assist Trophies
Assist trophies are items introduced in Super Smash Bros. Brawl that call on a variety of non-playable characters to assist the players who activate them. These characters inlcude:
 * Hammer Bro.
 * a Nintendog
 * Samurai Goroh
 * Dr. Wright

Yeah, the intro text is kinda rough, but otherwise what do you think?

--Autumn Forrester 12:20, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats WAY to trivial to include. Items are not NPCs!!! I have a propsal......
 * A Character is an NPC if they have the Smash logo as their icon. Sound Good?→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  19:46, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah I'll agree with that, also what if they don't have their own smash icon (as the site says most of them are invinicible) but they have a move set and hacking later lets people play as them? Although I feel this is unlikely what if such a senario came up? The Light6 07:43, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm...Just a point I want to set up. It's the pokéball or the assist trophy that's the item. The pokémon or the character is the NPC. One, they are characters. Two, they are not in any way alike with each other except that it came out from an item. Lastly, this character can't be controlled by a human thus, goes by the Wikipedia's definition of NPC. But having the smash logo...it's not really defined by Nintendo as such...so it's a player-given definition.124.106.217.241 12:13, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * They still don't have a full move set or can be played even using the debug menu, so they really don't quallify as any kind of character. Also can you give a link to wikipedia's policy on NPCs?→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  12:13, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia has a NPC policy? --myselfalso 13:59, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I feel quite guilty for adding the Assist Trophy section. I just thought I was being helpful to avoid people putting Dr. Wright as a playable character. Maybe there should be a seperate page for summonable characters like Pokéball's and Assist Trophies? --Gaiash 17:02, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Bowser
Added Bowser to playable in Brawl. DivineShadow218 07:02, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

It was then reversed (edit: and now it's back). Bowser is now included in the Characters page, http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/index.html, unlike an item player like Samurai Goro. BTerran 07:53, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Game & Watch and Ice Climbers
I didn't know Ice Climbers were confirmed for Brawl and G & W confirmed to be taken out. Anyone have a source? Tinkleheimer 19:48, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That's never been confirmed by Nintendo. --myselfalso 21:16, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I was just making sure. IC was confirmed in the list and GW was taken out. Tinkleheimer 00:09, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Giga Bowser 2
Should Giga Bowser have a meantion in both the playable character list and the non-playable character list, since in Brawl he is infact a playable character as opposed to in Melee? Also to support this I mention the fact that Sheik is only a transformation of Zelda but gets a mention same with Zero Suit Samus which is asumed but not confirmed to be the result of a "Final Smash" Attack like Giga Bowser. The Light6 09:18, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I added Giga Bowser into the playable characters list and made a note in the non-playable characters list that he is playable is in Brawl. The Light6 09:50, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * He should not be included on the playable character list, mainly because he is merely one of Bowser's moves and not a stand alone character. Also, it has not been confirmed that Zero Suit Samus is Samus' Final Smash, so that cannot be used as justification for the inclusion of Giga Bowser. Ixistant 11:19, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Its not like sheik where the character has a full move set, Still it shouldn't be added to the NPC list becuase there still no mention of a full on character version of Giga Bowser.→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  13:06, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think Giga Bowser should be placed in the playable character list because he is only a temporary transformation and probably has the same moves as Bowser. If we place him in the playable character list, we need to add Volt Tackle Pikachu as well. WikiFew 18:07, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Volt Tackle Pikachu is not a character as Giga Boswer is so even if Giga Bowser is added that doesn't mean Volt Tackle Pikachu should be. Well I have an idea to solve this, if Zero Suit Samus is revealed to be the temporary result of a Final Smash we either remove Zero Suit Samus or add Giga Bowser. The Light6 23:18, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, but shouldn't Giga Bowser at least be mentioned in the non-playable character list? Wait, maybe not, because he IS playable, but not a character. Guys, what you need to do is add a new table of the Smash attacks, that would have avoided this whole argument.
 * While that would solve the problem I think it as a whole would be unnessary. The Light6 23:18, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Even in Super Smash Bros. Melee he was fully playable, just not selectable. His moveset is identical to that of bowser, but much more powerful. It is quite easily assumed that this will be the case in Brawl. Through the use of cheat devices, one can play as Giga Bowser in Melee & through the use of in-game items one can, again, play as Giga Bowser in Brawl. The term 'playable character' seems relevant to a character that can be played in both games, but only by normal methods in one.

Because Bowser is undergoing a transformation, (Transformation being a new appearence, new stats, etc) technically Giga Bowser is a playable character. Not in the sense that it's permanent, but you still are playing as him. (That character information being accessed the same way Shiek's was when transformed from Zelda and vice-versa) On top of that, the character "Giga Bowser" (That, you should understand, being different from bowser) has different parameters and properties to moves: everyone should remember that GB's Down-Smash had an Ice property, (chance for freeze) He had an explosive headbutt with enhanced knockback, as opposed to an ordinary one; his punch had a darkness property, and his Up-Smash had an electric property. I would easily agree that, with the inclusion of the possibility for Bowser to become Giga Bowser, Giga Bowser is indeed a playable character. --M.K. 06:27, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Samurai Goroh
I don't know how relevant this is, but has anyone else noticed how Samurai Goroh's name is spelled "Samurai Goro" (no "h" at the end) on the Smash Bros. website? - Saturn Yoshi  THE VOICES 18:56, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No not very relevant, just basically trivia, besides it's an item like the pokemon out of a pokeball.→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  20:34, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm well aware of the mechanics of the Assist Trophies, I'm just wondering if this particular character will be reintroduced under this alternate spelling. Whatever the case, it won't become appearent until the game is released.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 03:32, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Just wanna point out that the page on the Smash Dojo was updated. It says "Goroh" now. Primed 07:15, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe this was already mentioned (Edit: it was)
But I have a request for someone to update this article...I see that in the "Non playable characters" list, it shows that Giga Bowser is still unknown for brawl. However, I can't blame them as the Super Smash Bros DOJO website just anounced giga bowser as a playabe character on the day I am writing this, which is July 4th.

Just wanted to tell anyone with edit powers to this article to update this area and not only change it from a ? to a check mark, but to make a note that giga bowser will be playable in Super Smash bros brawl. (PS: Giga Bowser will not be listed in the main roster, rather, the result of when regular bowser grabs a smash ball. See the site if this is too confusing)

The grid is for Nonplayable characters. A partly playable giga Bowser is available, but it is not an NPC. until a full NPC G-bowser is confirmed, we're going to change it to a check. Right now, a full NPC is not confirmed. Aramjm
 * Giga Bowser is not a playable character. It is part of the Final Smash move.  --myselfalso 14:54, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hence, he is playable. You just won't select him on the character select screen is all.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 18:24, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't buy that. It's like the NPCs within the Assist Trophies.  It's part of an item.  Or like Metal Mario in SSB and SSBM.  You can't select him, but you can become him during play temporarily just like the Final Smash item.  --myselfalso 14:37, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * NPCs are not playable. That is why they are called NPCs.  Just because you only play as Giga Bowser temporarily does not mean that he is the same as an NPC.  He was an NPC in Melee, but not this time around.  Likewise, Metal Mario and Giant Donkey Kong were only NPCs in SSB until Melee changed that.  In short, a character is deemed playable however short or long you can play as them.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 19:03, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

So why aren't Metal Mario Bros. and Giant Donkey Kong listed in the NPCs section? Does this mean Giga Bowser should be removed from that list now too since he became playable in a later game just like them? Also on a different note, why isn't Shadow Link listed as an NPC? 76.50.128.75 07:34, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Shadow Link is simply Link with his model tinted pitch black. As for Metal Mario and DK, they're simply modified clones of their original characters in SSB. Not worth noting. Giga on the other hand is in an entirely new character, hence why it's has a place on the list. Dengarde 08:06, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

The fighting polygons and wire frames are modifided clones of characters in SSB/SSBM. So is Giga Bowser. Their appearance is just more different than the ones you think are not worth noting. 76.50.128.75 04:54, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Not exactly. The Wireframes and Polygons are entirely different characters with move sets similar to others. Much like Gannondorf is to C.Falcon, Roy to Marth, Pichu to Pikachu, and Giga Bowser to Bowser. Giant DK and Metal Mario are exact clones, or rather, the exact same characters, just modified to be bigger in size and have a metal shine, hence why they aren't noteable. Dengarde 05:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Captin Falcon
Should I leave a notice similar to Yoshi's regarding Captin Falcon's presence in Brawl?I suspect some people may mess with the table and put a check in his Brawl column because of Samurai Goroh's inclusion as an assist trophy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DerekDD92 (talk • contribs)


 * First sign your posts. Second, to my knowledge, no one has yet, so untill it becomes a problem, I'd say no. Dengarde 23:19, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Alright then--DerekDD92 23:22, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Vandals!
Can someone get a mod or someone to lock it so no new users can edit it cause it was getting Exam photos all day.
 * Sign your posts and if you looked it is already locked. The Light6 00:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Giga Bowser 3
If you go to SSb Dojo,it shows giga bowser playable as bowser's smash attack in ssbb,but they said ? in the article... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.4.217.142 (talk • contribs)
 * ????? What are you talking about? if you think Giga Bowser should be on the playable character's table, this has all been Discussed before. The main concensus is he shouldn't. Also please sign your comments with " ~ ".→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  15:31, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Giga Bowser is not officially playable; He's part of Bowser's Final Smash. If we do include it, we may as well put Volt Tackle Pikachu on the list. Aramjm 00:34, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That's crazy. "Volt Tackle Pikachu" is not a specific character.  Never have they even refered to Pikachu as such.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 03:28, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly. It's just a smash attack. Plus, we don't even know you you CAN control Giga or not. We just know that Bowser turns into Giga when he grabs a Smash Ball. Dengarde 06:39, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe you can check it, but put a footnote along these lines?; "Only useable as Bowser's Final Smash." 75.47.148.206 11:08, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The Brawl website specifically says that you CAN control Giga. - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 14:47, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * As the Final Smash, which is occurs when Bowser obtains the Smash Ball item. It would be as if Mario became Super Mario because he picked up a mushroom item.  --Son 15:16, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * What's with this Volt Tackle Pikachu and Super Mario crap? They don't have any mention, past the effects of items. Giga Bowser has an actual section of the article to himself and is a transformation like Zero-Suit Samus. If she's considered playable, then Giga Bowser is.75.47.215.103 05:12, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Giga Bowser needs to be put in the playable characters list because the fact is he IS playable. Because he's only playable for short amounts of time or you need to start as normal Bowser does not matter even a little, he IS a playble character. He must be listed. He should have an X in his NPC box for Brawl as we all know he is playable thus making it impossible for him to be an NPC, for that we only need to use common sence, not a source. --TailsClock 13:21, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[Indent Reset] How many times can anyone say this...Giga Bowser is not a playable character. However, the character becomes temporarily playable. The character SHOULD NOT BE LISTED because you won't be able to chose the character before entering the stage. And it takes a Smash Ball item to engage it. If we were to list Giga Bowser, then the Assist Trophy characters and Pokeball characters should be included in the list of NPCs. --Son 14:47, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Please tell me, how the heck does them not being choosable on the character screen make them not a PC? Just use logic please, if he is playable (without the use of cheats) then that makes him a playable character! Although it's not to do with this, I think that every pokemon and assist trophy sould be listed as an NPC, because, they're NPCs from the Super Smash games, they deserve to be here. Though I know that'd be one very very big list, so I agree with the current NPC list that only has notable NPCs.--TailsClock 14:55, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * With the only exception being Sheik, because Sheik has a fully playable set of moves, and can be played in a match from start-to-finish, the definition of a playable character that is listed is one that can be chosen on the main screen. How many times can anyone say this?  Giga Bowser is not a choseable character; Giga Bowser is a limited character.  Giga Bowser happens only when Bowser gets a Smash Ball.  This would be like saying that when Mario gets the Metal Box item, he becomes Metal Mario and that makes him a playable character.
 * And when it comes to the Pokemon and Assist Trophies, there's a reason why consensus is that we don't list every Pokemon character or Assist Trophy character - because the come from items. As consensus stands, we aren't doing that.
 * And please, remember to assume good faith. Suggesting that I would not make a logical argument is not assuming good faith.  --Son 16:12, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Fine, i'll let you have it your way. But you are wrong, for Giga Bowser is a playable character no matter what reasoning you use. He is playable, it says so on the site, there is no sense in saying he should not be on the playable character's list. Why does he have to be chooseable? Unless you change the list to "choosable from the character select screen characters", Giga Bowser needs to be in it for it to be factualy correct. And the fact he is playable without the use of cheats means it's impossible for him to also be an NPC (non-player character). Also Metal Mario isn't a different character to Mario, so don't use him on any Giga Bowser arguments --TailsClock 17:23, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Then tell me this. How is Giga Bowser a different character from Bowser?  He's the same thing except BIGGER !  And once again, it's Bowser's Final Smash!  And the Final Smash is an item move.  An ITEM MOVE.  AN ITEM MOVE.  Thus, it would be factually incorrect to include Giga Bowser on the list.  --Son 17:45, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * ....so? You're wrong, Giga Bowser is, as has been said before, NOT a bigger version of Bowser, he has his very own model. He is also a playable character as is said on the site and thus, should be on the playable characters list. Also you people seem to be unable to comprehend that a character cannot possibly be both a PC and an NPC as they are opposites. Even if you refuse to put him on the playable character list put an X on his NPC listing for brawl. WE KNOW FOR A FACT HE IS PLAYABLE SO HE CANNOT BE AN NPC. At least fix the NPC list please.--TailsClock 19:50, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Look at the NPC list. He is not checked off as a NPC for BRAWL .  Why is Giga Bowser on the NPC list?  Because Giga Bowser was an NPC in Melee .  --Son 20:35, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You did not read what i said. "put an X on his NPC listing for brawl". I ment all of what I said about brawl only. I know he should be on the NPC list due to Melee but we know he cannot possibly be in brawl as an NPC so give him an X. That we can at least agree on surely.--TailsClock 22:36, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You see, we CAN'T just go ahead and put that he's not a NPC in Brawl because we don't know that. To suggest otherwise would be speculation. Something to avoid dearly. -Sukecchi 22:43, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * How can it be speculation? We all know for a fact he is not an NPC in brawl. IT'S SAYS SO ON THE WEBSITE. If he is playable that makes it impossible for him to be an NPC. If you don't understand that you shouldn't be editing articles.--TailsClock 23:25, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, first off, be civil about this. Secondly, just because Giga Bowser is a semi-playable character in Brawl doesn't automatically mean that he couldn't also be an NPC in Brawl. D i saster K i rby 00:20, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with the above post. Though the way I see it: if you can officialy (w/o any cheats) play as a character, they are considered playable; if they are officialy not playable, they are an NPC. Any character can easily be both. But, what seems to be the major determinant factor here, is wether or not the character is indeed considered a character. I say, since GB does have an individual & unique mesh/skin, as well as different properties/stats/parameters on moves, etc... then that's all it takes for something to be considered a "character", hands down. --M.K. 06:37, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree to that for putting him in the playable characters list as listing based upon what you can become at certain times seems like a bad criteria, also I would like to note that Zero Suit Samus ends up being confermed to be the same as Giga Bowser then we will have to remove her or add Giga Bowser. Also on Giga Boswer statis as a NPC just because he is a semi-playable character from the final smash doesn't mean the programmers won't be able to program him as stand alone boss, so he has not been confirmed to not be a NPC by being a semi-playable character. The Light6 07:15, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what you mean by "semi-playable". M.K is right, Giga Bowser is a character, though I think most of us already knew this. The problem is that you think that he can be playable and an NPC too, that makes no sense. Please please tell me how a character can be Playable and Non-Playable at the same time. I just don't understand it but you all sound like the awnser is easy. Also it looks like no-one's fixed the playable character's list so i'm going to do that now, hope I word it okay for everyone.--TailsClock 18:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[Indent reset] He could be an NPC in a different mode of the game. For example, Giga Bowser is Bowser's final smash. But Giga Bowser could also be the NPC you play at the end of single player mode. The fact is is that we don't know whether Giga Bowser will be in the rest of the game, so we can't say one way or the other whether or not Giga Bowser will be a NPC. Giga Bowswer as it stands is only a temporary, short-lived playable character as part of the final smash. As far as I'm concerned, because it requires an item to occur, it is not deserving a spot on the playable characters list. Again, it's like saying that Mario's final smash is a character. It takes the SAME item to do the final smash. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. --Son 19:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The thing I don't get is why people want to treat Giga Bowser as a completely separate character. I mean sure, he's larger, has his own model textures and all, and his moves have varied special effects, but he's still Bowser. As such, I think he should just be treated as a part of Bowser at this point. D i saster K i rby 19:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Giga Bowser is as different from Bowser as Marth is from Roy. And you haven't helped me understand at all about this NPC stuff. Giga Bowser is playable, like Mario is playable. If they Make mario "be the NPC you play at the end of single player mode", will he then be put on the NPC list? NO. Just because he's computer controlled at one point, it does NOT stop him being a playable character. This is why it's impossible for Giga to be an NPC. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. I'd also like to say that Sheik is not a standalone character, they are not on the character list and she is a TRANSFORMATION. Sound familier? Oh that's why Giga isn't on the list! Then we MUST take her off too. Don't start using rubbish like "but Giga's transformation needs an item which somehow makes this totaly different!" or "Giga's moveset is just like Bowser's". Roy's moveset is just like Marths but as with Giga and Bowser they are not the exact same. Giga and Bowser are NOT the same characters, never have been!--TailsClock 21:59, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sheik is completely different from Giga Bowser. How does Zelda become Sheik?  By self-transformation.  How does Bowser become Giga Bowser?  By using an item.  How long can Zelda be Sheik?  The entire level, from start to finish.  How long can Bowser be Giga Bowser?  For a limited time in the level, assuming that Bowser picks up the Smash Ball item.  Unfortunately, you seem to be dismissing this point as "rubbish".  Guess what?  An item does make this completely different.  --Son 23:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps to help solve this argument we can list Bowser as such: "Bowser/Giga Bowser" with a footnote explaining that Giga is playable during an item transformation in Brawl. We can also leave the NPC box as is because we do not yet know if Giga will be a standalone boss character.  Does this work?  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 05:46, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * As Zero Suit Samus is a smash attack the same a Giga Bowser I think it makes it clear Giga does deserve to be on the list. It seems alot like you all just hate him or something as he is the only one not on the list right now. Oh yeah, HOW does an item make 1% difference to a character being playable? With ZSS on the list it shows this is just a nonsense excuse.--TailsClock 08:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * While both characters are accessed by a Final Smash, Zero Suit Samus is radically different from regular Samus when it comes to how she is played; that's why she is on the list. Her case is identical to the Zelda/Sheik deal. The only difference between Bowser and Giga Bowser are appearance and the word "Giga" in their name. Otherwise, he's just the same exact character, just bigger. The fact that Giga Bowser is just a temporarily enlarged and more powerful transformation of Bowser doesn't merit enough of a reason for him to be listed as an entirely separate character. D i saster K i rby 09:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Giga IS an entirely seperate character! His attacks are NOT the same! It's like calling Marth and Roy the same! Seriously ask people who have played as Giga, he is NOT just a bigger Bowser!!!--TailsClock 09:15, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh really? Last I checked, the only difference between Bowser's attacks and Giga Bowser's attacks are that Giga Bowser's attacks are a bit stronger, and some of them have elemental properties. Unlike Marth and Roy, who actually do have some easy to point out differences, Giga Bowser is just a large ugly Bowser with some special effects slapped on. I don't know what Giga Bowser you're looking at to think that he's different enough to be a separate character, but from what I can tell, no one else that has contributed to the discussion thinks that Giga Bowser should be listed as a separate character. You're just dragging out the discussion at this point. It was decided previously on this page that Giga Bowser shouldn't be listed on the playable characters list, and this discussion obviously hasn't changed that decision. D i saster K i rby 21:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Dr. Wright
Dr. Wright is confirmed, and has a nifty erupting skyscraper move, but notice that he is classified on SSBDojo as an ITEM, not a playable character, so don't get excited and stick him in the main cast list.Rglong 07:50, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Dr. Wright = Assist Trophy Not Playable Character. Just to help clarify :). Tinkleheimer 08:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

While Watching E3 on G4, I noticed something in the E3 news banner on the bottom of the screen: " Remember Dr. Wright from the original SNES SimCity?" That part I remember, but this part not so much, "Well, he's returning in Super Smash Bros. Brawl," or something like that. FrogTape 02:30, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes. As an ASSIST TROPHY. -Sukecchi 02:33, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Donkey Kong
Please don't add Donkey Kong just because he is in this video does not mean he is in the game. He may still be taken out of the roaster or something else could happen to him, anyway please don't add him till he's on the official website.→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  21:42, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm thinking that'll probably be tomorrow. Besides, with the game coming out in only a few months, I'm doubting they would make such a drastic change as that. But you're right, he's not technically, dare I say it, confirmed. Eugh, that felt weird. 68.195.110.145 21:53, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see why he shouldn't be listed as being in Brawl; it's like saying that Meta Knight, Pit, Wario, Snake and Zero Suit Samus couldn't be 'officially' in the game at the time of the first trailer release. Plus DK is an established playable character in the Smash Bros. series; it wouldn't make sense for them to remove a character that is just as old as Mario is. D i saster K i rby 22:12, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Please, no original research, no infering or "of course he's in becuase he was in the first 2 games", we all now DK will be in the final game, but until this is officially conformed we can't infer he will be in the game, the same argument was presented with Yoshi, and the consensus was to wait till he was confirmed, please can we not go through the same thing with every character, next it will be Luigi, then maybe Captain falcon, can't we all just wait for official sources?→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  22:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * A video clip provided by Nintendo themselves isn't an official source now? Wow. The thing with the other characters though, is that despite it being obvious that they'll be in the game as playable characters, we haven't seen them yet. But now we've seen DK in a video shown by Nintendo themselves. If something shown by the creator of the game isn't official, then I don't know what 'official' is defined by anymore. D i saster K i rby 22:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh no. DK should be listed.  How can DK not?  Meta Knight, Pit and Wario have been confirmed on Dojo.  Snake and Zero Suit Samus have not.  Either DK gets listed, or Snake and Zero Suit Samus don't.  Otherwise, it's a double standard.  --Son 22:39, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yoshi and C.Falcon aren't listed because we haven't seen them. However, we have now seen DK. Video proof that he's in the game, from Nintendo themselves. It's as good as confirmed. Dengarde 22:43, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur. No inference is necessary. Removing DK from the list would be exactly like removing Snake from the list just because his bio hasn't appeared on smashbros.com yet. Yoshi's been given strong hints; it can be inferred that Yoshi's in; Yoshi was in the last two games, but we haven't actually seen Yoshi in the game. We've seen DK officially. He's in. --HeroicJay 23:36, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * As of late, DK has been confirmed. You may check the site. --M.K. 06:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * If you look at the time stamp from the previous comment, it was from before DK was announced. --Son 19:27, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

NPC tables for characters appearing in poke-balls and assist throphies
I think adding lists of nintendo characters appearing in Items would be a good idea, after all, pokemon ARE nintendo characters as well as Samurai Goroh, Dr. Wright, the hammer Bros., etc According to wikipedia standars, they are full-right NPCs and well known Nintendo characters, separate lists would end the debate. Yaddar 00:47, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

1) Sign your posts. 2) New topics to at the BOTTOM of the page. 3) The list is WAY too long for us to do that. Dengarde 00:43, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Princess Daisy and blood Falcon
A side note could be added to indicate that Princess Daisy and Blood Falcon (specially him) are playable as Peach and Falcon's alternate costumes..., they both ARE nintendo characters (Blood Falcon is a clone of Cap. Falcon, he owns his own F-Zero machine)

They don't need to be in any list, but they can be mentioned on a side note, what do you say (specially in Blood Falcon's Case)Yaddar 00:48, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think we know that yet for SSBB. For all we know, Daisy and Blood Falcon could be two hidden characters. Pluvia 07:58, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * They're talking about Melee, not Brawl. Yes, a note should be added, as well as Mario's Wario-colored costume that appeared in both the first two games.Rglong 15:32, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Why should we include alternative costumes, there just painted over an actual character, there very trivial, and they are aren't even playable (as I said before, their just painted over an actual character). So I ask again, Why should we include alternative costume notes?→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  23:35, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. Just because Peach wears Daisy's dress and accessories, it does not mean she is Daisy.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 14:28, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Even though Princess Daisy is an alternate costume for Peach there is no other difference like for example Metal Mario which has been denied entry into the article so I feel the same should be for something as insignificant as a costume. The Light6 05:34, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Metal Mario
I know I'm late to the discussion, but I still think Metal Mario is important enough to warrant his name on the NPC list. Reasons: he was his own character in the first game, not a condition caused by an item. He was a boss you always had to fight, and he even has his own stage based on the area in Mario 64 where the metal cap is found. In the first game he isn't playable unless you use a cheat device.

He plays a similar role to Giga Bowser - unplayable boss, then playable in a future release. And don't go saying "oh he's just the same as Mario but a clone" because plenty of the playable characters are clones too, like Dr. Mario.Rglong 15:37, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * In SSBM he was a clone (Mario + Metal Box). He could probably warrant inclusion if he wasn't just a clone ''in SSB' though. -masa ♫  16:45, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I hate to say the same thing twice, but as I said before, Metal Mario is not a NPC created from scratch, he's mearly a adaption of regular Mario. This is also the reason Metal Luigi and Dark Link are not on the list. This has been disscussed before, Twice even.→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  00:25, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Giga Bowser is just a larger version of Bowser. Dr. Mario is a clone of Mario.  Ganon is a clone of Captain Falcon.  Pichu is a clone of Pikachu.  Falco is a clone of Fox.  Young Link is a clone of Link.  So I fail to see your logic.66.191.114.224 17:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Giga Bowser has a significant change from Bowser in stats, size, and appearence. Dr. Mario has a significant change from Mario in stats and appearence. Gannon and Falcon are two different characters. Pichu and Pikachu are two different characters. Falco and Fox are two different characters. Young link has significant changes from Link in stats and appearance. Metal Mario is a clone, since he has the exact same stats and appearance (except that he's, well, metal.) from Mario.Dengarde 18:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

No, I'm sorry but you're absolutely wrong, Metal Mario doesn't in any way have the same stats and appearance as Mario. In the first game he moves and falls completely differently than any other character, because he feels like lead. He gets pummeled to beyond 300% before getting smashed off. His movements are abrupt and he falls hard and fast. Just like Dr. Mario, he differs in appearance and stats. I still don't see the logic in this at all. Additionally, I don't see how that ridiculous "sandbag" makes it as a NPC when it's just an item you can kick around.Rglong 07:19, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Sandbag is a NPC because it has a smash symbol and health also hacking the game has revealed that it is possible to play as it and even move it, however because of its role in the game does not require moves it has no programmed move set. So using "sandbag is a ridiculous NPC so Metal Mario should also be added" is a bad reason. The Light6 09:35, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

non playable characters
What's with giga bowser having a ? for the new game when it even says on here that he's going to be in the in the later in here?
 * Because Giga Bowser isn't a separate character. He's a temporary form of Giga Bowser that might or might not be separate from Bowser himself. -Sukecchi 15:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Animal Crossing character
Should Animal Crossing be mentioned at all in this article? I mean, the Animal Crossing stage, and the symbol, which normally indicates a character.
 * That's speculation. -Sukecchi 15:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Speculation, but not exactly unfounded. All the stages associated with a character has their character's logo on it. All non-character stages have the generic SSB symbol. I think it deserveds a mention that there's a possibility for an Animal-Crossing related character, but so far only an animal-crossing symbol has been releasedMavrickindigo 16:05, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

You can see almost all animal crossing characters in the stage. Besides who would be a playable character anyway?The Wii Guy 20:47, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Mr. Resetti is the most speculated. But no, I don't think it deserves a mention just yet...Dengarde 21:18, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with Dengarde, epsecially about the Mr. Resetti thing! :D However, as a Wiki editor, it is our job to make articles a reliable source of information, and we can be going around posting speculation, because it might end up being false. - Smashman202 03:24, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


 * To note, none of the "non-character" stages in Melee were based on a specific franchise anyway - and one of them had its own logo anyway (separate from the Smash Bros. logo, and no characters, even NPCs, used it.) When/if an Animal Crossing character is confirmed, it'll be safe to add. --HeroicJay 06:41, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Just because there is a stage with a seperate icon, (And yes, I am fully aware that icons indicate specific franchises) does not necessarily mean there will be a character of the same franchise included. As of now, everything is speculation, but remember it was the same in Melee, where there were stages from the "Smash" genre, (Final Dest./Battlefield) yet no officially playable character(s) from that specific genre. (as in one that appears on the character select screen) As an off-topic side note though: I personally do not think we will see a playable character from the AC franchise. --M.K. 06:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

If Master Hand returns in Brawl, could he get his own article?
He'll have been established as the series' main villain, and a recurring character, with three starring roles and a cameo in KATAM. The other NPCs can stay here, but MH should get an article of his own once he's confirmed for Brawl. Agreed? RememberMe? 03:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not too sure. Is there enough info on this character to sustain an entire article?  Think of all the game cruft that will be added.  Plus, his role hasn't really changed too much with each installment of the series.  Even though he has been in three (possibly four) games, there hasn't really been a lot of character development there.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 05:25, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Zero Suit Samus
I think that Zero Suit Samus should now be taken off the Playable Characters List because it is found out that she is actually the result of a Final Smash. Actually on second thought I think she should stay on the list.

Taken Off - It is the result of the Final Smash. Stay On - She is still playable even after the Smash Attack, not temporary like Giga Bowser.

This is a tough decision for me. Tinkleheimer 07:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

We'll have to see how it works out in the game. It might be like Sheik to Zelda, like how she has her own trophy and ending and such. Or it might just say Samus. Depressio 07:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Stay On - She is still playable even after the Smash Attack, not temporary like Giga Bowser.

She will be playable as a new character, AND she was announced as a newcomer Yaddar 07:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Will this change if Zero-Suit Samus reverting to Power Suit Samus is possible? In the same match, I meant. 75.47.201.224 07:22, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Zero Suit Samus has her own separate moveset from regular Samus, just like Sheik has a different moveset from Zelda. It'd make more sense to keep her on the list. D i saster K i rby 07:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Zero Suit Samus is a completely different character that is just accessed through another character. She should stay on the list. Depressio 07:44, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Stay On - She is still a playable character, also on Yaddar saying she was announced as a newcomer well the same was for Giga Bowser on the offical site. The Light6 08:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Stay on - ZSS is a side effect of Samus's Final Smash; Giga Bowser is the Final Smash. I believe ZSS should be on the list and not Giga Bowser. --HeroicJay at work 22:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Stay on - Zero Suit Samus and Giga Bowser are two completely separate cases. Zero Suit on, Giga off. -Sukecchi 23:15, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Stay on - seems that Nintendo confirming the characters with separate profiles lends a lot of credibility, and Zero Suit Samus has been given a separate "newcomer" profile since the beginning, culminating in her profile being added to the Dojo today.Rglong 07:21, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Special conditions revealed!!!
Zero Suit Samus is the result of Samus Aran's Final Smash, the Zero Laser. As posted on the official website. So I guess all that "speculation" turned out to be true after all... - Saturn Yoshi  THE VOICES 07:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

NPC Giga Bowser Picture
I believe the picture representing the NPC Giga Bowser should be a picture of him as a Non Playable Character. Showing him in playable form is misleading. A picture of the playable GB is already seen here. The was probably the best (most of the other NPC pics are of trophies). --147.226.44.186 15:13, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

That section talks about Giga Bowser in general, not just his nonplayable. At the bottom of the article, it even mentions him being playable in Brawl. It should stay. Depressio 17:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

But Giga Bowser already has a "sub" profile under the main Bowser article. If the "Non-playable characters" section of the page is really going to discuss NPC exclusively, then shouldn't Giga Bowser be shown as he is portrayed as a NPC? Any other discussion about the character as a NPC and a playable character would take place on the appropriate page. It only makes sense. --147.226.44.186 21:09, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * We just need an image of Giga Bowser. That's it. Nothing else. It's fine. -Sukecchi 11:05, 19 July 2007 (UTC)