Talk:Super Smash Bros. Brawl/Archive 2

STOP deleting the Nintendo Power part!
It IS in the magazine, yet someone still deletes the part about Nintendo Power revealing more caracters in their next issue! PLEASE stop, for they said they would. ONLY remove it IF Nintendo Power does not reveal characters. OK? ~Seros 01:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I have the magazine on my lap right now, and have perused it three times looking for this supposed information to no avail. Where is it? Flatulence Incarnate 02:07, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * yeah what page. Or is it not a page? huh bubQwerasdfzxcvvcxz 20:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * "revealing more caracters in their next issue!" Pay attention, slackers. - Nepharski
 * As I stated further down on this page, where's the evidence that they won't just be "revealing" Pit, Metaknight, Wario, Zero-Suit Samus, and Snake? --HeroicJay 06:46, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok. Now you say it will be in teh August issue. Fine. But tell me what page this information is on. The magazine is right in front of me waiting to be checked.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 17:47, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Music
'Also, music by Tupac Sukkur and Biggie Smalls are in the game.' what?? Is this for real? I'm thinking probably not since Tupac's last name doesnt look right to me. I'm pretty new at doing this.. but i'm sure this is rubbish, so i'm gonna remove it, am i right in doing so? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kokiri kid (talk • contribs) 09:27, 21 May 2006 (UTC).


 * Doesn't sound right to me, I guess you're right in deleting it. Please sign your comments.-- The Ninth Bright Shine  r  talk 21:01, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Right! thanks and sorry. Kokiri kid 08:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I wish the music had more of the melee feel, ya know rock and techno, not orchestrated, i hate that —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PopiethePopester (talk • contribs) 14:27, 24 May 2006 (UTC).


 * This is a place not to discuss Super Smash Bros. Brawl, but the article on Super Smash Bros. Brawl. And sign your posts.  Hitting the signature button doesn't hurt.-- The Ninth Bright Shiner  talk 18:55, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * (rolls eyes) Don't hold your breath ; ) H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 19:01, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Triva: do we need it?
Is triva really necessary? Do we really need to mention other fighting games Snake has been in? Starmenclock 19:43, 18 May 2006 (UTC) Yes, it's always nice to know more about something, I don't think it's hurting anyone. As long it's true, then no harm done on putting a trivia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.65.22.229 (talk • contribs) 20:46, 19 May 2006 (UTC).

Trivia, by definition, is pretty unecessary. That's why it's called Trivia. It is, however intresting to know, which, again, makes it trivia. SAMAS 17:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but we hardly know anything about the game currently, I think it would be appropiate to add it back in AFTER it is released. Starmenclock 19:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

It's an interesting bit of non vital information. You know, it's trivia. If the game is out or not seems irrelevant if we already know the trivia to be fact. --Agent Aquamarine 07:12, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Path of Radiance?
"(probably from Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance or the recently announced Fire Emblem (Wii) as it shows the Daein crest)" Is that confirmed anywhere? All I see are flags and no crests on them. 24.211.23.77 21:12, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


 * No, it isn't confirmed, as far as I know. It's just speculation. That comment should probably be changed/removed, anyway; While it could easily be a Fire Emblem stage, that's not the Daein Crest. ShadowRegulus 00:35, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it is the Daein creast. On the official Nintendo forum, someone lightened a pic of it. It IS the Daein creast, so that might mean a certain character who's name starts with an I, has a K, and ends with a E in the game... Well, I hope so... ~ Seros 00:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not discounting the possibility that Nintendo will introduce a new Daein Crest for FE10, but I'm positive that it is not the Daein Crest from Path of Radiance; the only similarity between the two is that they both feature what looks like a black dragon on a red background. The dragon symbol is completely different on them, however. How people can see the comparison and not be convinced that they aren't the same crest is beyond me...ShadowRegulus 16:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Old characters
Shouldn't we put something to the effect of "It is expected that all playable characters from Super Smash Bros. Melee will return as playable characters in SSBB." the Great Canadian Ben 13:28, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * No, we don't know that. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 13:32, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the creator hinted at all the charaters remaining in the next game on SSB Dojo.71.225.125.214 15:54, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I can't even bend my head around that. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 15:57, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The only comment on SSB Dojo regarding all the classic Melee characters remaining was in reference of Masahiro Sakurai not becoming the game's director, in which case Nintendo would have made a sequel themselves with no new characters, and no old characters being removed. --Smoke 11:30, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I meant more expected among fans, rather than as an official statement. the Great Canadian Ben 20:00, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

3rd Party Companies that are wanted in
Oh, please... this is an Enclyopedia, there is enough rumors on the boards already. Deleting that part.Seiferalmas 19:34, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

3rd party characters in demand
I think that the 3rd party characters in demand section should be removed. as far as I know, Cloud and Sephiroth have never even appeared on a Nintendo system, and there is no chance they would include characters who haven't appeared on a Nintendo console. the rest of the characters are not likely to appear either. Master Chief is also on the list, and I'm willing to bet that he won't be in this game. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.26.92.26 (talk • contribs).

'''Sign! Sign the messages'''. Use Capital letters. And I agree. But stop the mutilation of the English language. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 19:58, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree as well. It's unnecessary, extremely objective (I don't know a SINGLE person that's even hoping for Master Chief), and it just makes the article as a whole look unprofessional. I'm going to delete it. Thores 20:18, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's gone.. again. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 20:20, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * JoshCube of www.smashbrothersonline.com has admitted on the Gamefaqs forums to posting that list and is also taking suggestions to add more characters to it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.126.137.209 (talk • contribs).


 * We have a problem. I believe this person is the one of the same. Can you ask him to stop? Cheers, H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 20:23, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Why are you people removing the 3rd Party Section? Nintendo is having an Online Poll. Please add this section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JoshCube (talk • contribs).


 * Please sign your messages (If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times.) We've noted that people are being asked to vote for characters, we don't need a blow-by-blow account of what it is in vogue. It's in Japanese for cripes sake. It is counter-productive. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 21:05, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, Cloud has appeared on a Nintendo system. Remember Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.233.42.17 (talk • contribs).


 * Highway Cello, you need to STOP saying"SING YOUR POSTS!!1!eleven!!1one!!" so much. OK?71.225.125.214 20:28, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * My name is HighwayCello, and I am saying "Sign" not "Sing". I will stop when you people doing! :P H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 20:39, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah I had a typo HC (which is what I will call you, like it or not) and I didnt sign it on purpose. but you keep sayin that alot. Not picking on you just sayin.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 19:55, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Conversations get awfully messy if no one signs their posts. It takes four seconds to click the signature button, just do it. --Agent Aquamarine 01:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Sounds perfectly reasonable to take that section out. Fans "want" this and "want" that.  The article on Link doesn't say that "a group of people in Wyoming wanted Link in a tutu."  While this obviously isn't ture, fans are always going to "want" something in a game.  Sure, there are people who Cloud, Sephiroth, or Master Chief in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, but it really isn't worth mentioning.-- The Ninth Bright Shiner  talk 01:42, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

That logo
I'm not entirely too sure that the logo currently on the page is official. Taking a look at the metadata, it was made in Paint.NET. I may upload the logo from the video instead. What do some others think? TheKeithD 20:28, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It was probably copied and saved in a paint doc, opposed to saved straight. Use your judgement, H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 20:31, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, you're right about that. I'll leave it alone for now. TheKeithD 20:33, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's official. Check IGN.com. He modified it in paint because the art was coupled with another identical logo on a black background. He removed it. -Spire 00:46, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

It was shown in the trailer! It's totally real. RememberMe? 20:24, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Sex minigame
I took out the sentence that said there would be a sex minigame with Link and Samus. Anyone know who added that? -Takuthehedgehog 18:29, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Some vandal. Everyone knows the sex minigame is between Samus and Wario. Voice of Treason 02:21, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * You're both wrong. In an interview, Masahiro Sakurai himself said it would be between Samus, Peach, and Zelda. Try to keep updated, O.K.? --Supermariorobot 03:17, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Forums! Forums all of you! (At least you signed) H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 08:45, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Ewwwwwww.... Samus and Wario! What the heck is wrong with you people!
 * I also think that people should be allowed to talk about whatever they want on this page, rumor or not, as long as it portains to the game! And please stop killing the english language!

DuctoMan 20:51, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Wait a minute, are you being serious? It is hard to tell sarcasm with text. DuctoMan 21:43, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Is it wrong that I laughed that it took nearly an hour for this to set in? And I'm against adding too much stuff like this, but darn it, when you see an oppurtunity you have to take it, for better or for worse (taste, that is). Voice of Treason 18:26, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Is it just me, or does everybody here have issues? Link and Samus? Wario? Zelda? Peach???????? Ewwwwwwwwwwwww! and again I say, Ewwwwwwwww! --darksamus-- 00:06, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Where in the world did you find out there would ever be a sex minigame. First of all, it is Nintendo.  The worst they have done is Geist (the shower in the girl's locker room).  Secondly, this game is intended for teenagers and kids, so I don't think they would allow this.  Lastly, you guys are stupid to even believe there would ever be one.  Just so you should know. dudeman 03:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * They were joking darksamus^^ and dudeman^.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz

stop deleteing
stop deleting the confirmed characters, ok? i mean, seriously, it's something we all want to know --PopiethePopester 16:31, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Replacement Samus or Alt Samus?
I don't think the video made it clear if Zero-Suit Samus will entirely replace the old version or just be another option, although the entry stated this. I rephrased it to explain the possibility of two "Samuses" or just Zero-Suit. Any feedback? WikiFew 03:29, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure none of the originals will change, and no one wants Samus minus her arm cannon.--Viridis 04:15, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Suited Samus not being there isn't even a possibility. I don't see any logical reason to think Zero-Suit is a replacement. Voice of Treason 03:20, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Zero-Suit would have to have different attacks since she doesn't have the arm cannon, so I don't think there's any chance she'll replace the orinal Samus. ButchRocket 21:14, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * If you look in the trailer stills, you'll see it's actually the Metroid Fusion Samus who fires the cannon. Well original Samus fires it, and then the suit goes green and yellow and starts to break away. See the stills, H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 21:17, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The suit "changes color" because of the bluish light of that humongous blast.-- The Ninth Bright Shine  r  talk 17:44, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Erm, No, the suit doesn't change from Varia to Fusion...--Claude 02:36, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, purple is a color. Go off and play now. urutapu 18:01, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Please refrain from potential personal attacks, please keep cool. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 19:10, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * She's in there because she has her own SSBB Stock Art. They're both going to be in there, we just don't know if they'll be the same character that can transform from one to the other or two completely seperate characters. RememberMe? 20:04, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Are we even talking about the same thing anymore?! And what personal attack, HighwayCello?-- The Ninth Bright Shine  r  talk 20:59, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it is made clear that it is "not a pure character addition" meaning that Samus would under certain conditions change into Zero-Suit Samus. Something to think about however is if you decide to change to Zero-Suit Samus, would you be able to get your armor back and become Armored Samus? I edited that part saying that it would most likely not be able to become armored again because the suit has to be destroyed to become Zero-Suit. deecee 09:35, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, Samus can freely switch back and forth between being in the Power Suit or just being in the plain old thong suit in the Metroid series. There's nothing that says that she can't restore the suit on the site, just that getting out of the suit is something that occurs "under certain conditions." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ClaudeLv250 (talk • contribs) 09:47, 25 May 2006 (UTC).
 * I'm referring to the movie where her suit was destroyed by the charge shot. This may be the "certain conditions" and this supports my theory that you cannot regain the suit. But maybe there is an item? By the way Claude, please put four tildes. deecee 10:24, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Haven't you all seen suited Samus shot the super smash attack??? She is probably a separate character. Sanosuke Sagara 12:49, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I was trying to address HeroicJay's concerns about the ambiguous wording of the website. The website doesn't specify anything about whether the "certain conditions" even occur during a match. I think they do, based on the trailer and the webpage, but whether I believe it is not enough for it to be included in the article. I think the concerns about vagueness were about whether these conditions were merely "unlocking" criteria to allow another selection on the character screen. Given the fact that trailers are frequently misleading, this is not out of the question. Do we know that we're going to see that mushroom-cloud whenever Wario performs his Waft maneuver during a match? In addition, the website is not explicit enough to rule it out definitively. This site seems to be full of unverified speculation and original research as it is. I am tempted to excise a good majority of the content under the policy, but I feel I would be stepping on the toes of fans, who seem to have put a good deal of effort into that content. For the most part I've just reworded things. But for now I am reverting the change. Let me know if you're super-opposed to this. Dancter 14:26, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Dancter sounds entirely right. This is what makes future products so hard:  they're in the future!-- The Ninth Bright Shiner  talk 01:46, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you so very much
I just read 50 cent would be a character, and I was appalled. Then somebody took it off, and saved my very soul. Thank you. I hate everything about 50 cent and so this is overwhelmingly joyous. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.213.29.203 (talk • contribs).
 * Was a comment about your gullability worth adding to this page? Xubelox 05:57, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes it was. What the heck! 50 cent! AHHHHH! He isn't even in any videogames! AHHHHH! DuctoMan 20:53, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Ahem. You may want to do some research. It's not a fact that the world should be proud of, but this guy's ugly mug is everywhere.--Agent Aquamarine 01:14, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * WHY!!!!! Why would anybody make a video game for him!! WHY!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! DuctoMan 19:03, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

50 Cent is in a videogame... his own videogame. It's called 50 Cent: Bulletproof. Check it out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.41.109.189 (talk • contribs) 22:14, 25 May 2006 (UTC).

Anonymous online play?
The last sentence of the article was a total grammatical mess. I believe I've corrected the grammar, but it is still in need of a source. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.57.42.230 (talk • contribs).

Video or videos?
A couple of sentences in the "items and abilities" section are confusing me a bit, specifically these two:

"Videos also suggest new battle mechanics, such as "super smash" character moves that are triggered by the collection of emblem items."

"It has been shown in a screenshot that a new item will call out a large puppy from Nintendogs which blocks the screen."

First, are there any other videos out besides the E3 trailer? Secondly, the Nintendog is in the E3 video - should this sentence be changed to say that that's where it's from, or is there an official collection of screenshots not related to the E3 trailer floating around? --Sparky Lurkdragon 21:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * There is only one trailer, and the Nintendogs image is in the gallery. Cheers, H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 21:48, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you much. I've rephrased the sentences in question slightly. --Sparky Lurkdragon 22:12, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Old characters
Let's get something straight, people. Sakurai DID NOT say that all characters would be returning and be untouched. His comment was that if he hadn't directed the game, that's probably what Nintendo would have done. We don't know whether or not they'll all return, and it's possible they won't. Characters have been axed from fighting games before. SSB isn't special. Regardless of what you believe, there is no proof either way, so I think it's best not to add a note on this subject on the page Xubelox 06:02, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Dojo?
I'm just wondering, should this article be named "Super Smash Bros. Dojo"? The official Smash Bros. website appears to call it Dojo, and not Brawl. Perhaps Brawl was an early name (kept for E3), and Dojo is the final one? --Falcon9x5 11:46, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty certain that "Dojo" is just the website. Wait for a press release with a new name before we make any page moves. --Shadow Hog 13:32, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah yes of course. Sorry, the idea never struck me (I automatically assumed Dojo was the game, not the website). --Falcon9x5 13:53, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Images
Please don't add an image for every single line of the text, it looks hideous, and isn't required. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 20:56, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm confused as to why this image is under the screenshots category (or even in the article at all), as it is just a mockup of what was shown in the trailer. I suggest someone replace it with an actual screenshot from the actual scene. Chu 04:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not even a mock-up; someone uploaded a user-made picture over the original. Voice of Treason 18:32, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's crappy, I'd report it for delete it. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 18:36, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I fixed it, someone thought it was funny to replace the image with a spoof version, which I reverted. Crisis averted. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 22:40, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Techniques
The fourth paragraph under "Development" states that techniques from Super Smash Bros. Melee will probably be able to be used, such as "wavedashing," "L-cancelling," and "edge guarding." Shouldn't we just take out these examples of techniques? There is no official name for any technique used in SSBM, and the average reader (alright, just about every reader) won't understand these terms.-- The Ninth Bright Shine  r  talk 21:10, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * On an afternote, couldn't these techniques be usable no matter what controller you were using?-- The Ninth Bright Shine  r  talk 17:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The only term I think people will know about is Wave Dashing. ...I've never heard of the other two.Sukecchi 21:13, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * That entire sentence is nothing but speculation, chock full of fan terms that you wouldn't know unless you hung around in elitist SSB board circles. Basically, I don't know why it's on there.--Claude 21:26, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, edge guarding doesn't take much thought to figure out: guarding an edge while you keep an opponent from getting back on the stage.  Even so, removal sounds reasonable.-- The Ninth Bright Shine  r  talk 17:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I was a bit dubious about this sentence myself; I edited it so it would have a slightly more formal tone, but perhaps we should just remove it entirely. --Sparky Lurkdragon 21:31, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I was in the mind to just take it out myself...more formal tone? I don't think I can detect a single change... The Ninth Bright Shine  r  talk 17:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * From Nintendo Power Spetember 2005 Issue Volume 195:

"Wavedashing is a tactic where players slide across a board by jumping, blocking, and pressing a direction in quick succession-so quick that the jump is actually skipped. It is hands-down the most difficult move, and it's mind-boggling to see in action. Luigi, Ice Climbers, and marth are probably the best wavedashers."

...I don't even know why I'm defending this, but wavedashing is acknowledged to be a true technique.Sukecchi 22:07, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * But how many readers are going to know about this?-- The Ninth Bright Shine  r  talk 17:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I have heard of Wave Dashing, but have no idea what it actually is. The others, I've never even heard of.--Agent Aquamarine 22:39, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It's completely speculation, I'm getting rid of it. THey probably haven't even considered the use of a brand new engine.. possibly. Anyway, For those wondering what "L-cancelling" and "Wavedashing" is, I'll explain to you. It's a real move, there's an official name to wavedashing, but I can't remember. It's basically L/R-dodging diagonally into the ground, and sliding across it. For best results, Dodge immediately after jumping off the ground, to the point where you hardly see the jumping animation. "L-cancelling" is pressing L/R when you touch the ground after any aerial action to halve the recovery time. Like after getting knocked onto the ground, or being unable to move after an Up-B move. - Zero1328 Talk? 06:51, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Trophies
Does anybody know whether there will be trophies in this game? 69.40.248.212 20:34, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The Studio probably knows, but other than them and high-ranking Nintendo officials, nope, nobody knows.-- The Ninth Bright Shine  r  talk 20:55, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * There will be. Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 17:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * And you know this how?-- The Ninth Bright Shiner  talk 20:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Theme Music
Does anyone know where lyrics or a trnslation for "A Main Theme with Emotion" could be found, if anywhere?--Supermariorobot 07:23, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Outside of several satirical English interpretations, it remains untranslated.--Agent Aquamarine 01:55, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Main Theme Name Debate
I did add it, but it was deleted, Isn't the name of the song A Main Theme with Emotion from what the official website says? --Bebopblue 18:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you have a source? H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 18:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the source is the official Super Smash Bros. site. A heading nearby says "A Main Theme with Emotion," but that isn't necessarily the name of the theme.  It might not even have a name.  That could just be describing the music.  A section for the music sounds reasonable, but there isn't that much information on it.-- The Ninth Bright Shine  r  talk 19:44, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Development Team
Has it been confirmed that this game is being developed by Sora? 199.126.137.209 23:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC) Xubelox 23:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The webpage makes that quite clear.--Agent Aquamarine 01:55, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's that clear. Likely, but not clear. There isn't any explicit statement that says that Sora is developing it. HeroicJay recently referenced a page which states that it's being developed "by Masahiro Sakurai of Sora," which does not confirm that it is being developed by Sora. It does list Sora as the developer in the information box, but I don't find it too convincing. Dancter 18:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It seems the issue is being discussed further in . Dancter 21:05, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

"I'm Masahiro Sakurai of Sora, director of the "Super Smash Bros." series of fighting games featuring Nintendo's most popular characters. Hello. (Note: Sora is the name of my company.)"

Sora is the company Sakurai formed in September 2005. The company working on SSBB was said to have just finished a major project when they were introduced to Sakurai (shortly after E3 2005. Not to mention it was said that Nintendo introduced Sakurai to the company, whereas Sakurai created Sora himself. Xubelox 02:09, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * "So it was that Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto introduced me to a "particular team" that had just completed a large-scale game. ... Until the day comes when I can announce the team's name, I shall simply refer to them as "The Studio."". Clearly he wouldn't need introducing to his own company. Nothing confirms the Sora development. Just because he refers to himself as "of Sora" isn't a sign that they're developing this particular game. It would be appreciated if the user adding this would discuss it here, in the talk page. A Super Smash Brothers fansite can't be taken as a "credible" source unless they have a quote from a developer or a press release or something, even if it's part of Gamespy's network. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 18:26, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Another revert, and my last. I don't want to take this to an RfC or something over a dumb section in the infobox, but I'd rather do that than involve myself in an edit war. Come on, can you at least give a decent reasoning for verifiability before putting it back in? Talk pages are here for a reason. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 19:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The Main page of Dojo says Nintendo and Hal...no mention of Sora Ltd. anywhere.

All I'm going to say is this is getting ridiculous, pick something already.Sukecchi 19:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Images of character "models"
Those images only show SSB models, and two pictures of the character? Should the pictures be reworded or taken off? R id E the Lightning ! 22:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

July Nintendo Power Confirming New Characters
I have the issue in my hands and it does not have any new information on characters in the game. I'm not quite sure why the poster is so concerned with it. Either he has the date wrong and means the August issue or it is a fabrication. Deleting it once again, unless he wishes to provide the magazine scans. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.111.61.24 (talk • contribs).

What if it means they in the July issue they announced that in the following issues they will announce new characters? Sukecchi 18:43, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't have a link and thus can't confirm, but I saw a scan of the announcement that the "next" Nintendo Power would reveal "new" characters and got the impression that they meant Pit, Metaknight, Wario, Zero Suit Samus, and Snake. It didn't say "new characters not revealed at E3" or anything like that. --HeroicJay, not at home computer and too lazy to log in.


 * that guy who said he was looking for the scans wasnt looking hard was he?Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 20:02, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I was looking hard for those scans. I can not find them. Go ahead and delete the Nintendo Power part, but don't say I did not warn you. Seros 21:01, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * If and when the info is released, it'll be on this page, of that I assure you. --HeroicJay 23:14, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I got no dubt in that ;) ~ Seros 01:27, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I have the latest Nintendo Power in my hands right now. Smash Bros. Brawl barely gets a paragraph of coverage and it simply names the five new characters from the trailer.  I looked at the preview section for next month's issue as well, and nowhere does it say anything about revealing more characters. DMAJohnson 01:21, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * ^ Me too.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 17:23, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think they will reveal new characters as they are a part of Nintendo. They only had a brief part of it in this month's issue because E3 started when they had to start getting the issue wrapped up and ready to go.  They work very closely with the people high up in Nintendo.User:31.17.127.116 3:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Huh?
"Sakurai has confirmed that not all characters from Super Smash Bros. Melee will return."

Any jap readers among us? H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 20:33, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Heard it before, and even if the translation I was given was 100% accurate I would prefer to hear it as official news (like Nintendo coming out and saying, "These are all the characters we're using, no more," or something.) --HeroicJay, who's still too lazy to log in. 20:39, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. I guess press releases are worth waiting for. But in case you're curious, I found a decent translation and discussion about the topic here. -- ShikiMSHTS 21:01, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not tottaly official in America yet, it hasn't been announced here, but it was supposedly revealed in Japan. Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 21:55, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * (breaths deeply) Could you please you English when writing messages, sending messages through a spell checker is always useful if unsure. What does "k Hic" mean? H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 22:02, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Its not true, dont worry. The message basicly meant "We will try to put in as many characters as possible, but it could be hard as we struggled to get 25/26 into melee". Several members at gamefaqs and elsewhere took this out of proportion.-sdhonda 23:50, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I can use English if I so choose: I simply hace decided that I do not mind if my grammar is imperfect on Wikipedia.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 01:58, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Super Smash
The article keeps referring to the special attacks as "Super Smash" attacks, and the items used for them as "Super Smash Emblems". Are these terms official, and if they aren't, should they be used in the article? ButchRocket 00:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe just make a note that as-of-now they're a "placeholder" term until something more official is revealed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.168.9.17 (talk • contribs) 01:06, 24 May 2006 (UTC).


 * That's a good idea. I've put it in the article.


 * Also, please be sure to sign your posts. :) --Sparky Lurkdragon 01:15, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but I haven't gotten myself an account yet. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.168.9.17 (talk • contribs).


 * You still can and still should sign your posts with four tildes (~) or with the signature button. You'll just be known by your IP number until you get an account, if you ever do, but it still helps keep conversations clearer. --Sparky Lurkdragon 05:28, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Calling them "super smash" attacks sounds RIDICULOSLY LAME (if you disagree...well...maybe you're lame). The should just be, special attacks or somethin'. But the "item?" is a super smash emblem/symbol.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 17:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Geno and the rest
Would a source be too much to ask for, mm? Because otherwise we're going to assume it's vandalism. Thanos6 05:06, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Archive image
It must be stored in the server that crashed. -- ReyBrujo 16:02, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Is that what happened? Makes sense. Similar things are happening to me on other pages too, but I can load the histories and edit just fine... I just can't load the page itself. --HeroicJay 16:05, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm... now it doesn't seem it crashed, but the connection went down. Time to check IRC. -- ReyBrujo 16:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Going through the history's archive, it works now... but I'm not on the same computer as the one I used when it didn't work. --HeroicJay 17:29, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

"Certain conditions"
The official site is extremely vague. It does say that both forms of Samus are playable, but I don't think it's safe to be jumping to any conclusions just yet. --HeroicJay 02:12, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I re-added it after your revert briefly, then realized what you were getting at. Hopefully my current edit addresses the ambiguity well enough. Dancter 03:26, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Hopefully "certain conditions" are like, playing 300 vs matches, or beating Samus's adventure mode in 6:00 minutes.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 17:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know, that would make it more likely to be a second character. The official site makes it sound most likely that it's the same character, or it wouldn't go to the effort to say "certain conditions" at all. I'd think it's more along the lines of the Zelda/Sheik transformation or something. Still pretty speculative, though. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 18:05, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Better Confirmed Characters section
The only confirmed characters can be seen in the E3 trailer on the official Web page's movie section, and they have been confirmed by Nintendo. The E3 trailer depicts battles between four returning characters: The movie also revealed five new playable characters slated for Brawl.
 * Mario, the main character of the Super Mario Bros. series.
 * Link, the hero of the Legend of Zelda series.
 * Pikachu, the mascot of the Pokémon series.
 * Kirby, the main character of the Kirby series.
 * Samus Aran and Zero-Suit Samus heroine of the Metroid series (The official Smash Bros. website states that Zero Suit Samus is not a pure character addition, but a special character mode for Samus which manifests under "certain conditions". ).
 * Meta Knight, of the Kirby series.
 * Pit the hero from Kid Icarus.
 * Wario, Mario's rival and star of the WarioWare, Inc. and Wario Land series.
 * Solid Snake, the main character from Konami's Metal Gear series, also appeared in the trailer, shocking fans primarily because third-party characters (those not belonging to Nintendo or any of the companies it owns) had never been present in the series thus far.

A list format would work much better. When I added it it was deleted. I will add it back, if you delete it please state why before doing so. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.102.34.115 (talk • contribs) 21:25, 25 May 2006 (UTC).


 * I already gave you a reason, prose is preferred in the Manual of Style because it is more enclyopedic. Please sign your edits with 4 tildes ( ~ ), and try not to bold things. Prose is better because it's more civilised, refined, non-forumy. Prose also cuts down on vandalism, a list is easier to vandalise. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 21:32, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The Manual of Style said no such thing that I noticed, it's easier to read, and I don't see how it's "easier" to vandalise a list. --HeroicJay 21:33, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I've found it at Guide to layout. I'll quote -


 * Articles generally comprise prose paragraphs, not bullet points; however, sometimes a bulleted list can break up what would otherwise be an overly large, grey mass of text, particularly if the topic requires significant effort on the part of readers. Bulleted lists should not be overused in the main text, but are typical in the reference and reading sections at the bottom.


 * And also, it is easier for a person to add "CJ from GTA" to the end of a dodgy list and go unnoticed, but it is easier if "CJ from GTA" is dropped at the end of a paragraph. And vandalism to the characters is down. I rest my case. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 21:38, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but adding "CJ from GTA was also confirmed in a recent Nintendo press conference," as is added like daily (with other characters, though, like Geno), and looks just as real as "CJ from GTA" at the end of a bulleted list (sure, there's no cite, but that's why it'll get rved). And anyway, just about every other gaming article with multiple playable characters lists the characters in a bulleted list. --HeroicJay 21:44, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * To be perfectly honest I think a list would be better. It's straight forward and to the point. And I really don't think any vandalism in the form of character additions would go un-noticed.Sukecchi 21:46, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * That's why Jesus was a new character for about 3 days? H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 21:48, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Speaking of people making unsupported claims, I just went through the history and that never happened as far as I can see. At least, not since the E3 video. Either your estimate for the amount of time is WAY off, or it didn't happen at all, as I checked one post on every day and saw zero "Jesus" references (if it lasted about three days, then one post per day would catch it as there would have had to have been one full day with it still there.) --HeroicJay 22:11, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It was something stupid that was up for ages, CJ or John Travolta or whatever. I think I'm going to hand this article over to you since I won't work with people that can't even see a guideline. It's in the manual of style, you have to think of the greater audience. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 22:15, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Look, perhaps I was a little blunt, but there hasn't been any noticeable drop in vandalism since transforming it into "prose" that I can see. This is a serious question: Why should this page have its character list in "prose" form when Super Smash Bros. Melee, Mario Superstar Baseball, other such games don't? --HeroicJay 22:22, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * There has been a noticeable drop, remember before we prosed it the first time? It was utter wildfire. Now, it's not anywhere near so bad. I don't know if you've noticed, but in the prose, there is more information about all of the characters, this is a bad thing? Also, we have images of all the new characters, and if we ever put this article up for GA/FA/PR then it's better off as prose. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 22:26, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I haven't seen it, and if true, correlation does not imply causation. The pomp and circumstance has died down a bit (if only slightly) since then, for example, and that could be the cause. And you didn't answer my question. --HeroicJay 22:29, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It allows us to go into more detail
 * It is more enclyopedic (anyone puts in a wikitable and I will turn vicious)
 * It is less susceptible to vandalism
 * It encourages more productive edits (lists and wikitables kill productive editting)
 * Lists are for terms which don't require or readily give more detail (like playable appearances of a character rather than characters in a game)
 * It follows our best articles (do you think FAs are in lists?)

Frankly, the articles you mentioned are very poor quality (are the games italed?) and if I ever get round to it, each character will have a nice paragraph to themselves. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 22:35, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Let me rephrase the question, as I'm not getting the answer I'm looking for. Why is it okay for those other aforementioned pages to include lists? --HeroicJay 22:49, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It isn't, they're subpar. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 22:52, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I have made a major edit to this section that I hope will please both those in favor of a list and those in favor of prose. I have placed each character under a subheader, and have added a sentence or two on each character based on my observations of the trailer. Let me know what you think, and feel free to add more (verifiable) information. E WS23 | (Leave me a message!) 01:15, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that's a perfect solution to this prediciment. Although I would suggest when more characters become known that they get their own page like the Melee characters. Just a suggestion. Sukecchi 01:26, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed, once we know more characters we can make a page similar to Characters in Super Smash Bros. Melee (except, with the start we already have, it can be better!). E WS23 | (Leave me a message!) 01:32, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, that works, but it oddly enough didn't thwart vandalism, which doesn't surprise me one bit. O m g keeps adding unconfirmed characters (mainly Geno). --HeroicJay 03:35, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, thank you Eric! I'll go off an expanding rampage so someone can't drop a short one in. Cheers, H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 09:16, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok sorry u guys. It was justa joke and il stop now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by slapslapslap (talk • contribs) 19:07, 27 May 2006 (UTC).


 * Please sign talk pages, and do not vandalise. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 20:22, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Source of Nintendogs and Stages
Can we get some sources for those? If Nintendo really said it was by an item then that wouldn't be so hard to add but the stages one might be tough. Sukecchi 23:34, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I saw something on IGN about the stage. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 23:44, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * You cant always trust ign. I believe they Speckulated that it was an item. Nothing about the nintendog has been confiremdQwerasdfzxcvvcxz 01:51, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Removal of Images
Urutapu, did you stop to think that something was wrong with your computer? The images are showing up perfectly. I don't see any reason to take them off.-- The Ninth Bright Shiner  talk 23:06, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Because there are currently 14 images in an article about a game that has not yet been released. See the article of a released product like The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, with 13 images, and a yet to be released one, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, with 10. Images should be used to illustrate, not as decoration. -- ReyBrujo 23:38, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Use for decoration doesn't go under "fair use", either. I think the Screenshot section should be removed entirely. Also, I recall a discussion where two examples of the character design changes were enough, I think Urutapu or someone said the addition of Samus made it excessive. I can't seem to find that discussion anywhere.. - Zero1328 Talk? 23:52, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm the one who said that. While I think the images the should stay...I do think some need to go.


 * The following should go:

Battle at the Castle because it shows nothing of importance Pit vs Meta Knight because both of those characters already have an image depicting themsleves seprately. Perhaps even Link's "Super Smash" screenshot.


 * I also think haing three Character Design things is too much, we don't need to see how Mario, Link, and Samus all look...maybe Mario could stay since it is a Nintendo game...but Link and Samus should go. Sukecchi 01:06, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Um...I was talking about how Urutapu took off images because they "somehow weren't showing up." I didn't mean to start this whole thing about removing images.  I guess removing some would be entirely reasonable, notably the ones...the anonymous, unsigned guy said.  But why take off Link's "Super Smash"?  Why not Kirby's, or Mario's?  Or all three?  I don't have much of a solid opinion on images.-- The Ninth Bright Shiner  talk 01:31, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * If you want to keep a private conversation, use the user talk pages ;-) The Wikipedia policy for Fair use images state that images should be used when they are needed. In example, if you are describing a character's outfit of a character in the character page, you can keep a character's image to give the casual reader a better understanding. However, having three images of the same character in different positions isn't necessary, unless the article is about character positions.
 * Comments about this specific article, Image:Mariocomparison9.jpg, Image:Linkcomparison6sa.jpg and Image:Samuscomparison2.jpg are not needed, however it is fine to use them (maybe just one) in Super Smash Bros. series, because that article is about the whole series, and you can show with it the progression of a character's look through the series. Image:Photo_l1.jpg (Meta Knight alone) and Image:Pit_02.jpg (Icarus alone) are not needed, because they are only showing that the characters exist in the game, and both are well shown in Image:Ssbbrawl1.jpg. Image:Ssbbrawl8.jpg (Samus) could be justified, because in the other image where she appears, Image:Ssbbrawl3.jpg, she is being covered almost fully by Mario and Pikachu.
 * Just some thoughts. -- ReyBrujo 01:51, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the excellent advice. Everything you just said sounded perfectly correct.
 * 10,000, eh?-- The Ninth Bright Shiner  talk 02:02, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Note that those are my personal thoughts. Since Wikipedia is not a legal system, follow the spirit, not the letter of rules per bureaucracy policy. In other words, be always flexible. Although I can be bold and remove the images directly, without a good consensus other users will add it again, probably leading to edit wars. That is why I post my thoughts in articles, and try to get consensus between all the regular editors so that, whenever someone else arrives and adds an already deleted image, anyone, not just me, have the explanation ready as for why it was removed. This is something is happening in the PlayStation 3 article, where people continue to add the black PS3 image. After reaching a consensus, most editors agreed not to use it for now. Hopefully, editors of this article will keep the amount of images to the minimun, especially knowing that the game hasn't been released yet. -- ReyBrujo 02:19, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * So...when is this image clean-up going down? Is it even happening at all?Sukecchi 19:23, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I am leaving others to do it, as I am busy rewriting some Dragonlance articles. People from Wikipedia:Fair use usually delete unnecessary images all around, so they may arrive here someday. You can do it yourself if you want, nobody should complain about this. If they have any problem, they can come discuss it here. -- ReyBrujo 19:33, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Kirby
Can someone knowledgeable on the subject write about Kirby's abilities? Cheers, H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 09:18, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I happen to know quite a bit about Kirby. What sort of abilities do you mean, other than the fact that he can suck up enemies and steal their abilities? His jumping and such? 72.87.38.186 21:44, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The chef ability and the other ones. I wanted there to be some info about his Super Smash attack, but I would have no clue where to go. Thanks, H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 21:45, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Regarding his Super move, in the games, the cook power would gather all enemies on screen into a pot and convert them to food (health). There's not much more to say about it, or any of his moves really. Xubelox 05:29, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Well where is that ability from? Has it been in more than one game? Is it a new ability? H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 07:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The Cook ability is from Kirby Super Star, I think. I know it appeared in that game (although I'm not positive if it originated there or not.) - 65.188.59.31 12:49, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * There's content right there! H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 13:04, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It has been in a few Kirby games, including the most recent GBA title(cant remember the name), and maybe the first GBA title.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 17:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

About Solid Snake...
We all know that Solid Snake was in the trailer, and it seems like he'll be in there. But, has anyone noticed that he's not on the characters list on Dojo? Does this mean he might be - dare I say it? - a hoax? RememberMe? 20:43, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * He's the final silhouette. They're taking longer to write his profile tis all. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 20:55, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh. Thanks for clearing that up. RememberMe? 00:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * OK. Heres the facts 1)Solid Snake was in the trailer. 2)Solid Snake will be a playable character in SSBB. 3)He is on the character list on SSBDojo. 4)The character list on SSBDojo is updated weekly.Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 13:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

" Rumored Characters " Section
This section was recently added, and my removal will likely get some dispute from the author (hence my creation of this section, just incase). However, it was a large pile of speculation topped off with a lack of sources. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 01:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm, looking at the revision history it looks as if a user has previous added some of this, before it was reverted similarily. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 02:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I say we should not have a rumors section until the game is out. When and if it gains any really infamous rumors, like Melee's Sonic and Tails thing, then we can create a rumors section. --Sparky Lurkdragon 02:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * In any case, it's an AOLer, so I doubt it can be stopped with much success. I also have doubts that they'll even read this talk page to see the nice happy section I created for them. Oh well. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 02:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Developers
In responce to Consumed Crustacean, the page in question does show the developer. It can be seen in the list on the left side of the page, right under the publisher. JQF 19:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * People have been discussing this in the "Development Team" section, which is several above this new one you created. As for that site, that is hardly evidence at all. They're just another fansite without sources, and I'm pretty certain that doesn't meet the reliability requirements for sources. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 20:03, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * In the official site Mr. Sakurai, in the Famitsu interview, states :

So, I decided to become director. And as of May, 2005, I was the only member of the new Smash Bros. development team. [...] So what of the magnanimous development staff? It turned out that Nintendo would build a new team around me in Tokyo. In other words, we would create a new studio. [...] So it was that Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto introduced me to a "particular team" that had just completed a large-scale game.

Until the day comes when I can announce the team's name, I shall simply refer to them as "The Studio."
 * As clear as water. The development team is the union of several developer studios. And he would have stated that Sora was going to work in the game as well, but he did not. And that the studio is new. -- ReyBrujo 20:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I simply referenced GameSpy because it was the first relevant link Google turned up besides Wikipedia itself. I found a better one. Wanna try to claim that that is a "fan site"? --HeroicJay 20:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * How is that claiming that Sora is working on the game? It says that the creation of Sora is related to his starting work on Smash Brothers. However, right here he says that he wants to keep the name of the team behind Smash Bros. Brawl secret. Why would he then go on to name them? -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 20:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Note that the fourth page of the interview you point says he founded his own company, Sora Ltd., not that the game is being developed by Sora. He left Nintendo, and founded his own company, which is currently working on a title. Nintendo asked him to design the newer version, and since his team was already working in another game, Nintendo offered to build a new studio for him. It is not Sora. -- ReyBrujo 20:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, what he says is that the creation of Sora was related to Super Smash Bros. Brawl (which doesn't make sense if another company is actually making it in any way I see), and he says that the name of the team was kept secret. A company isn't quite the same thing as a team. --HeroicJay 20:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * He doesn't outright say it's working on Smash Bros. Related to could mean anything, including that he met people in the development team that he started the company with, or whatever. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 20:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Please stop. Read WP:3RR before continuing. I am reverting to the text that was before the edit war started. Discuss and don't modify the information there until everyone agrees. Thanks. -- ReyBrujo 20:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I know, my last revert was my actual last. It's also HeoricJay's. Perhaps a straw poll should be conducted to see where consensus lies on this sillyness? Though, to be honest, the majority in the talk page so far have opposed including Sora. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 20:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No matter which one of us is right, it will be revealed sooner or later anyway (that was my third "revert", sorta, as CC implied, BTW). So I suppose just sitting on the issue for now will suffice. I've heard the name "Sora" thrown around in reference to this game so many times that I was basically taking it for granted, I admit, but I really haven't seen any evidence of it being false and, if not outright stated, then many overt hints that it's true (official website among them). --HeroicJay 20:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Hints aren't good enough for WP:Verifiability (big policy), which is mainly what my arguement is based on. I try to be a procedure / by-the-book editor, dull as that may be. There are several silly, unreferenced things in the Wikipedia, and I like to try to keep that number down. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 20:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, a neutral solution would be to leave a Sora Ltd. (disputed) in the developer text, and add a Template:Disputed-section tag to the article Template:DisputedAssertion template to the line until the developer is confirmed. What do you think? -- ReyBrujo 21:01, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it's a better solution than the edit war. Dancter 21:05, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Most definately. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 23:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * WP:3RR can really sneak up on you. I did a second revert on Sora Ltd. before I realized what I had done. Dancter 21:05, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

People, do the math. The company working on Super Smash Bros was introduced shortly after E3 and had just finished up a major project. Sora was formed in September. The game's production started in October. It's obvious that Sakurai's note about Sora was just letting people know that he has his own company; A small self advertisement Xubelox 23:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * OK. Phew. Some of you may not have noticed something. The magazine exerpt isnt recent. At the time Sakurai had not revealed the name of "the company", but now I believe he has in "Sora". That might not be clear, how can I rephrase it? He didnt want to call the team Sora in the magazine(because maybe they hadnt named it?), but now he revealed that the name is Sora. OK. (hmm Sora? wonder what it means in Japanese? if you know or can find out tell me plz. thnx)Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz 00:12, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Xubelox: Speaking of uncited references, what are you talking about? Who said that the company had just finished up a major project? And who said that said project was a game, or something that couldn't be completed in a month? --HeroicJay 00:23, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Sora means sky in japanese. Qwerasdfzxcvvcxz, we only have the Famitsu interview and a fan network link. If you have a solid reference, post it here so that we can decide. Until then, HeroicJay, Consumed Crustacean, do you agree in having Developer (which I see someone changed to Unknown) be Sora Ltd. ? -- ReyBrujo 00:57, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Only reason I didn't do it myself after it was suggested was because I thought people would call it revert #4. Be my guest. --HeroicJay 01:19, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It's fine, so long as it's made clear that this fact isn't 100% verifiable. That template sounds like a fine solution. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 04:50, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

After looking through different sites, I'd say the name of the company isn't at the moment completely verifiable. GameSpy lists the developer as Sora, but GameSpot lists the developers as Nintendo and HAL , while GameStats and IGN list the developer simply as Nintendo ,. I'm not saying these are the best sources, but if the developer was 100%, no doubt Sora, wouldn't all of these sites have it listed? Perhaps they're just waiting for clarification and confirmation. If this is the case, I feel that we should wait too. (In the meantime, it wouldn't be inaccurate to put Nintendo as the developer, rather than "unknown.") E WS23 | (Leave me a message!) 01:26, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes it would, because we don't know if the company is a subdivision of Nintendo or a separate company hired by Nintendo. For now, unknown is probably the best entry, because it's simply that; unknown.  Or maybe we should just remove the developer heading altogether.  By the way, here's my source for the finishing up major game comment: http://revolution.ign.com/articles/673/673532p1.html

"Nintendo has enlisted some outside help for the development of Smash Bros. Revolution. "Shigeru Miyamoto introduced me to a 'particular company' that had just finished development of a major game," Sakurai reveals. The executives of this company didn't offer too much resistance in signing up when Sakurai spoke with them about the project." Xubelox 01:38, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Updated bits about Nobuo Uematsu's involvement
Look at it here: http://www.n-sider.com/articleview.php?articleid=518&page=4 75.8.255.17 01:03, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Symbols of Each Character
I decided to put symbol affiliations for each character. This would be used for future use for the next few characters to be confirmed. I just put Letter symbol for Wario instead of W Symbol so that it would if ever include Donkey Kong and others who use letters as their symbol. Since we still do not know the symbol of Solid Snake, I just put it as ? Symbol. If ever people disapprove to this and decide to just change it to the games they come from, that is fine with me. 210.213.175.214 06:50, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Changed, unless you have stared at the screen for ten hours not stop, you'll be totally lost. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 07:04, 31 May 2006 (UTC)