Talk:Super Smash Bros. Brawl/Archive 20

InfoBox White Space
Does anyone know how to get rid of the white space on the sides of the boxart in the info box? If you do, don't hesitate in editing.→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  21:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The white space is in the sides of the image itself. Someone needs to pop it open in Photoshop or something and crop it down. Arrowned 21:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I re-uploaded the image with white space removed.→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  22:23, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I love how the archive (pg 19) didn't have a resolution for the image.
Don't upload speculative stuff like this that isn't official. EBGames is not even running it.

Also the boxart image doesn't even have a source or an author, unacceptable. Straight from IGN's mailbag


 * Well, it's not really official, if that's what you're asking. I e-mailed a rep for Nintendo about whether or not it was legit, and received only the response: "We haven't released any new box art." There is no author or anything reliable for this image. There's a picture of a Luigi that is suited for Brawl yet we don't use him. (check the talk page for Luigi) Do you know why? Because it's an unknown source/author. --MrBubbles 01:52, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Another highlight of the now-archived topic: EB Games and Gamespot have reverted back to their previous placeholder image. This signifies that even they deemed it unrealistic to continue with an unofficial boxart.  You Can ' t Review Me!!! 02:05, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

One site that still has that picture is Amazon.com although I'll admit that in the past I noticed that Amazon is slow in updating their information when compared to other sites. Besides other than you allegations that boxart didn't have the EB rating for it. -Adv193 03:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

That boxart is fake. Link's face looks like a piece of s***. Seriously, IT IS FAKE! Put back the logo, whoever was unintelligent enough to put it up there. -faceurhell 19:20, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Still don't know how real it is, but all those sites that removed the box art, like Gamestop and Amazon, are now putting it back. And Link doesn't look much different than he does in the game from what I can see... --HeroicJay 22:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * And it's been pointed out to me that Walmart.com has a higher-resolution image than any I've seen previously. --HeroicJay 23:59, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Special Brawl
Should we keep the special brawl update on the page? I personally don't think a specific multiplayer mode (particularly one in Melee) warrants its own section on the page. 141.133.145.118 16:36, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * When I added the info I followed the format from the other Smash Bros. games- the Melee article has a multi-player section and then sub-sections for different modes, including one for Special Melee. MarkSutton 17:07, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

In addition to the new options listed, I added the new "Angled" option which is new to the series as well. (Zojo 22:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC))

Inclusion of characters
The sentence at the end of the inclusion of end of characters states that Sakurai said "3rd party characters will only amount to 3 or 2." Can this information be verified? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.66.127 (talk) 21:32, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, please see the source. &mdash; Malcolm (talk) 21:40, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I thought it was 1 or 2.Green Kirby 16:17, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Ice Climbers
This disproves that rumor that's been hanging around forever. (Zojo 15:26, 14 September 2007 (UTC))


 * It's been disproved for months. Dengarde ► Complaints 16:07, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * One year, three months, and eleven days specifically. So yeah, we really don't need to discuss it.  Old hat and what not. Arrowned 18:55, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

There's no way this game is of high importance under the Nintendo WikiProject
This discussion was transferred to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Nintendo

Assist Trophy list?
Hey, I was wondering if we should have a list of all the Assist Trophy characters. The answer is probably going to be "no", but I felt like bringing it up anyways. If this was already discussed in the archive, then I'm sorry for bringing it back up. The world&#39;s hungriest paperweight 01:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * As stated in the FAQ, we aren't listing an AT characters just like we're not listing in all of the Pokemon. Magiciandude 01:39, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.131.145.228 (talk) 06:47, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * A few examples would be okay, but listing all of them would be something more suited for a walkthrough found on GameFAQs rather than an entry on an encyclopedia. This sort of information constitutes cruft, which is generally avoided on Wikipedia.  You Can '  t See Me!  06:57, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Add an item list?
I think that we should add an item list, does anybody agree? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erik20202 (talk • contribs) 01:58, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * NO, look above you and you will see the same discussion.The Wii Guy 02:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Just post a link to the list on the link section to items on the smash Dojo! site. faceurhell 3:22 18 September 2007


 * Why? There's always a link to the Dojo main site.  If people can navigate Wikipedia this far to the Brawl page, surely they could navigate the Dojo page to the items section.  TwilightPhoenix 15:42, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

We're trying to stay away from lists.Depressio 16:38, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

You guys do realize that there's an entire wiki devoted to the series, right? A list of items would be better off there, just like my above idea of listing Assist Trophy characters. The world&#39;s hungriest paperweight 16:57, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. It's better off there since that site is in no way trying to be an encyclopedia. It's more like an amalgamation of bad grammar and unsourced information. *kaburicho 03:33, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

If there is a area dedicated to characters in the series, I say we could have a area dedicated to items in the game. It's not needed, but it could be useful. Plus it could point out things like the bumper not being in Melee, and several items in the series not in past entries. Not needed, but it could be neat to have. As for the list of Assist Trophies, well, we might as well just make a page dedicated to ALL ITEMS, Pokéballs, Assist Trophies, and other items. Not needed, but it'd be neat and useful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.132.130.71 (talk • contribs)


 * The problem would be is that it doesn't follow notability. If we had pages for all the items of every game, you could probably tell that either the deletionists are losing ground or we're trying to stuff too much unneeded information. Information like that should go in wikis specifically dealing with Super Smash Bros. or the StrategyWiki.  bibliomaniac 1  5  04:52, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This isn't really a deletion discussion, but "It's useful" is still a good argument to avoid anyways. Also, "faceurhell," if you want to go by a username, you really ought to sign up and make one rather than posting as an IP and faking one. Don't try manually typing out the date and time, by the way; sign with four tildes (~) or with five tildes if you just want to add the date and time.  You Can  '  t See Me!  04:54, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Wi-Fi Confirmed
This is probably important. -Kenny2k 07:14, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Err...Nevermind. It seems to already be in the article. Heh. Carry on. -Kenny2k 07:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Still, shouldn't the bit about wi-fi go before Special Brawl?72.225.211.5 07:30, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

The development section needs rewording. Maybe add something after "many hurdles to cross" like, "although, on sept 18 2007, Sakurai confirmed that records would indeed not be tracked in random online battle, only in friends matches."--Mayor Coffee Bean 11:12, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Do not add it under multiplayer. From the official website it was revealed NEXT to game modes. Online is NEXT to Adventure Mode. And within the own text, Sakurai says there will be other modes aside from Free For All to be done in WiFi. --MrBubbles 13:16, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That's fine, but do your edit summaries have to be so biting? Coreycubed 15:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I really should get off GameFAQs. It really makes you into a bitter person. So I apologize if I came off once again very rude, but that's what happens when you post on a message board full of trolls.--MrBubbles 16:31, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * OHHH! You should have said so!! Dude, I take back anything I ever said about you buddy. You come outta there...it's like life on the inside. You come out a different person. Welcome home. :) Coreycubed 16:40, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a little off topic don't you think?Green Kirby 21:46, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Europe: Q1 2008?
The release date on the page says Q1 2008. Although it'd only make sense, the source linked to only says 2008. Nintendo of Europe has screwed up release dates before (Super Paper Mario), so I don't think we can say for sure it will be Q1 2008. VDZ 21:14, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Diddy Kong Playable confirmed
Diddy Kong will be playable, according to the official site; I believe there are others listed there that aren't on the list in the article: Didn't want to mess with the formatting; I'll let somebody more qualified handle it :P Robbertom 22:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * We all know that. just about everyone here watches the updates. Theres a REASON they aren't listed. Dengarde ► Complaints 22:42, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Please see the FAQ. Characters are not listed on Brawl's page due to the fact that all hell would break loose if we try to work it into prose and that listing makes it look like listcruft, so instead characters are placed on this handy table.  You Can '  t See Me!  22:46, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Your help is still appreciated though, Robbertom. -- POWERSLAVE  00:53, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That's the sort of explanatory and hospitable series of responses I would like to see more of in talk pages nowadays. :) Erik Jensen (Appreciate or Laugh At) 06:21, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Japan release in '07?
http://www.smashbros.com/jp/index.html shows some Japanese characters and 2007 where the English version of the release date is. If someone can interpret some Japanese, can someone verify that it's coming out in '07 for Japan? It may even say the date.Falco x Fox 11:09, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Looking at Google's translation of the Japanese version of this article, its TBA. Of course, the list the North American release date as that too. &mdash; Jaxad  0127  12:28, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm hoping my English teacher, who can speak Japanese and read Japanese, can translate it for me. By the way, what's Wikipedia's policy on information in other languages? Is it still usable for citation, even though most people can't read it?Falco x Fox 22:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure foreign-language citations can be used, but their inaccessibility causes them to be frowned on in things like FA reviews.--Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 23:39, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * They should be marked that they are in a foreign language in the ref section.  bibliomaniac 1  5  02:30, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I can read Japanese. It says (roughly) "scheduled to be on sale in 2007". 75.153.231.20 06:57, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * This is what it says:
 * 2007 Release Date TBA
 * MSRP: TBA
 * Genre: Action
 * #Players: 1-4


 * It's not on Nintendo's release calendar for October or November, so the chances of Japan getting this game before the Americas is growing slimmer and slimmer. Even though Sakurai and Miyamoto have stated themselves that Japan should be getting it first. :( Wikipedian06 04:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe it'll be a simultaneous release or something, all on the same day possibly? InsaneZeroG 05:29, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * If that's what it is, Nintendo would have announced just that back at E3. Why let the other nations wait so long only to find out that it's a worldwide release? Wikipedian06 17:37, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I've seen significant web evidence that the Japanese release date is December 31,2007. If anyone can prove(and add) or disprove that, that would be great. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.15.71.19 (talk) 17:52, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * If a release date were announced, it'd be on the official site. I think IGN is just speculating and many other media sites trusted IGN as a reliable source. Plus, a December 31 launch directly goes against Sakurai's announcement that Japan would get the game before the Americas. Wikipedian06 19:53, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * True, they'd already announce the release date if they could. My best guess on the date would be December 1 because: It's a Sunday (The major game release day in Japan), It's before the US release date, and The only release dates known are in October and November, neither of which have Smash on it. This is only speculation on my part, so don't take it as fact, but this is the most likely date fitting with Sakurai's estimates. InsaneZeroG 20:07, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Notable composers
There seems to be some disagreement as to what composers are deemed notable (see here and here). Rather than an edit war, how about we settle this on the talk page, hm? Personally, I don't know who should be considered notable, and I don't really care. I'm just tired of seeing you people revert each other 24/7. The world&#39;s hungriest paperweight 22:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * There is a hidden note that reads DO NOT ADD OR CHANGE EXAMPLES. That is why I kept reverting your edits. If we let Sakuraba in, someone else would want to add another composer not listed because they prefer that one over another. The three composers chosen were not picked because they're more notable. They're just examples. Every composer has done something notable for the game, but no one composer is more notable than another so that the current list of examples should be changed. It's exactly the same as with listing characters.Satoryu 00:27, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think Sakuraba does have a large resumé, and he did do the SSBB arrangement of SSBM's main theme. His name could probably replace Yamamoto's since it actually needs to be disambiguated (Then again, I'm not speaking from a NPOV, having played Golden Sun and being blown away by boss music and the main theme...).  You Can '  t See Me!  00:38, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * So? Nobuo composed the main theme, and he isn't listed.Satoryu 01:46, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That is a good point. Uematsu definitely ought to be one of the three examples due to his composition of the main theme.
 * In retrospect, maybe picking three example composers at random may not have been the best idea. Unless we figure out a better system, I propose that the names of the composers be left out for now.  You Can '  t See Me!  04:38, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think Sakuraba or Uematsu are good examples because they represent the composers who are typically more famous for their more "serious" RPG OSTs (such as Kenji Ito, Yasunori Mitsuda, Michiko Naruke and many others). It is very suprising to see them on a list for a game like SSBB, so it should be noted. ~ Felcis 09:16, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * What exactly is SSBB a game like; & why is it somehow less worthy of having a more "serious" OST than some overblown, overdone & overrated RPG? - Jishmeister 11:22, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Nobody said it´s "unworthy", but those composers are specialiced in RPG-OSTs and it´s unusual for them to work on games in other genres. And you can´t deny that different genres normally require different music. So don´t make a fool of yourself with genre-bashing. Felcis 12:13, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Frankly, so what? Just because they typically work in RPGs doesn't mean they're more important than any of the other composers. I'm sure most of the composers on the list haven't worked on a fighting game before either. I agree that it would be best not to mention specific names at all. That way, no one composer is regarded higher here than another. So everyone will be happy. And we can drop the issue.Satoryu 18:23, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Stages?
Is there going to be stages in the Wiki?TheBOMB001 21:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Most likely, no. InsaneZeroG 21:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Different Screen Shots?
Well I was looking at smashbros.com. I looked at the update [Mr. Resetti] and looked at screen shots. After that I went to the Japan website and saw diffrent screen shots. This may be worth-less info, but just to let you know.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Wii Guy (talk • contribs) 02:34, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That is odd indeed... Can anybody here read Japanese? Perhaps the text is different as well... This could be our first instance of a localization change in the game; however, since they are including Devil in the US version (supposedly), I doubt they'd do anything radical with Resetti.  You Can '  t See Me!  02:41, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It's not odd at all. It's just screens of the same thing in two different languages. Unlike the French, Italian, Dutch, and English sites, the Japanese site actually has the text in japanese. All the screen shots that have text in them are usually different, because they had to take two different shots. One in English, one in Japanese. So naturally, different screens. Dengarde ► Complaints 02:46, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That is a good point. Note that the Japanese-language version of the WiFi page have the same set of screens save for differences in text, though; maybe they were just lazy or something.  You Can '  t See Me!  02:50, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * True, but look at the screen with sandbag. Switching between the two, you can see that in the Japanese screen, the camera is slightly more angled. The screens are the same because they are menus. So they can easily look the same.
 * As for the screen with Samus flying...well we can't rule out the possibility of a doctored image. Dengarde ► Complaints 02:56, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, and the screen demonstrating Random WiFi has the characters in different positions; I ought to be more careful with my observations from now on...  You Can '  t See Me!  03:01, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and the screen with Samus being knocked around? Exactly the same except for the text...Which is odd. Why would they change the Random Wifi pic with no text at all, but not that one...Well, either way, it's probably nothing. Dengarde ► Complaints 03:07, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

So if there's another update with text in it, there a chance of there being differnt screen's.... I'll keep an eye out.The Wii Guy 03:41, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Naturally. Like Melee release it was dual-language and since US and Japan are confirmed for a 2007 Sakurai obviously has both options available.

The Resetti speech is in Japanese/English, The Pokemon Final Smash text boxes are in Japanese/English. The trophies are in Japanese/English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrBubbles (talk • contribs) 14:36, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Sonic mention by Miyamoto in Tips & Tricks
Can someone with access to the relevant Tips & Tricks magazine from around August 2006 please confirm the bit about Sonic being mentioned by Miyamoto? This is a case of mind-boggling bad sourcing. We were formerly citing a GameSpot union post (made by a GS user, not a staff member), which in turned referenced nintendorevolution.ca, which in turn referenced qj.net, which has a low-res screenshot and claims that they picked up the story from the Nintendo NSider forums. If the NSider forums weren't down, I wouldn't be surprised to find the chain continuing through a half dozen more sources :) --- RockMFR 23:31, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

First of all... If he is he is, if he's not he's not. Secondly, those are a year old and rumers. Which probley means it's a waste of talk page. We can only wait and see....The Wii Guy 03:24, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Princess Zelda as a Character
As many seem to know, Princess Zelda from the Legend of Zelda games is playable in Super Smash Brothers Brawl. I tried to put her where it mentioned that Link and Fox McCloud had design updates, just so she would be mentioned, but it was removed, and I think it should have been kept. I'm wondering why it was removed, because it was revealed on the official website that she is a playable character. I did read that we aren't supposed to add characters, but I thought she should at least be mentioned. Thanks for your time, Zythena 00:46, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * We know. The reason it's removed was because we already have some examples in the article, no more is needed. And we've already made a note that Zelda is playable in the list on Super Smash Bros. (series). Dengarde ► Complaints 00:52, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Snake's VA Confirmed
Well that's no suprise. Considering Hayter's great voice acting skills voicing Snake these past years up to the finale; MGS 4: Guns of the Patriots, now this sequel. Zeta26 17:57, 30 September 2007 (UTC).


 * Hmm? Where did you learn this? Dengarde ► Complaints 01:08, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Game News site; QJ Wii confirmed it on their site. Zeta26 18:09, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * (For everyone else, This is the article in question) I wouldn't take this an confirmation, the article doesn't have a source, and I have NO idea if it's actually reliable or not. It seems likely, but I think we should find a better source for it if were able to fit it in the article. (Where, I dunno) Nevermind. It's linked to Hayter's official site, which confirms it. But even so, how would we fit this in the article if we do? Dengarde ► Complaints 01:16, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, I wouldn't worry too much. I'm sure that it will be added as we get more info on when Nintendo adds more characters to the official site =). Zeta26 18:21, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe the original source of this was a comment under this YouTube video which was posted by Hayter. --- RockMFR 01:22, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Why is this noteworthy to the article? I don't see any reason why Hayter should be mentioned here.Satoryu 03:27, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Who deleted my meassage? I did'nt delete anyone's. Oh, and I think this is noteworthy to the article.69.131.145.228 03:37, 1 October 2007 (UTC)Spencer Rhodes
 * I don't particularly think so. If anything, this should be noted on David Hayter or Solid Snake (which it already is on both, albeit indirectly).  You Can '  t See Me!  03:41, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Um, I think what our IP friend was talking about was his deleted comment. Basically what he said is that the article needs to be longer. Personally, I don't see why it has to be longer. Plus, I don't think there's much more we can add without bordering on cruft. As for your deleted message, I think it would be safest to assume that it was deleted by accident. The world&#39;s hungriest paperweight 03:48, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

First instince of regional diffrences?
I'm not sure entirely, but I noticed something. On last nights update (Shadow Moses) we got three videos of the Codec feature. But for some reason, those movies aren't on the Spanish, French, Italian, and Dutch sites. Kind of expected, seeing as text in the games aren't translated to those languages. Whats odd though, is that it's not on the English (UK&Ireland) site either. Since they have English movies, I don't see why they wouldn't post them on the English site. It may be speculation, but do you think that the European version won't have that feature? Dengarde ► Complaints 19:50, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks like a simple mistake and/or lazyness to me.Satoryu 20:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Um, I don't know about you, but I think this section of the article should be deleted.Green Kirby 20:17, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

That's very odd - it's the only video on the UK&Ireland site that doesn't work. Could it be a technical fault? - NP Chilla 20:44, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * More the reason why this section of the disscussion should be deleted.Green Kirby 21:17, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no reason why this discussion should be deleted. Dengarde ► Complaints 21:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Let me try and clear this up for you, Spencer. I can't recall if this was explained to you before or not, but Wikipedia is not a forum. I know that people have explained this to you in their edit summaries, but since you're still probably pretty new here I don't know if you've noticed these comments. Many of your comments that have been deleted in the past were rather "forumy", and some have even been talking for the sake of conversation. This, however, was an honest attempt to try and, umm... Actually, I'm not really sure what this would accomplish, but that's why we're supposed to assume good faith (something Sukecchi and others should practice more often). The world&#39;s hungriest paperweight 22:44, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't you single me out. I don't fool around, I explain that Wikipedia isn't a forum, and remove what doesn't help the article. -Sukecchi 23:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I only singled you out because I was too lazy to look through the page history for other people who have reverted him, but I noticed that you did just recently (explaining how I know this would take too long and I doubt anyone cares). Also, I don't recall you explaining the no-forum rules, or at least not before you deleted a healthy number of Spencer's IP edits. He was trying to improve the article (or at least he thought he was), but you (and others) just deleted his comments rather than explain things to him. I wouldn't exactly call this "assuming good faith". Although it's good that you're enforcing the anti-forum policy, it won't do any good if you don't explain things to people who don't understand as they'll just keep it up. Now I could be wrong since there were a lot of edits to keep track of, but this is how I remember things. I'm sorry if you took this personally, but you were the only example I could come up with on the spot. The world&#39;s hungriest paperweight 05:21, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Uh, before this escalates out of hand any further, perhaps it's best to continue this on Usertalk pages rather than here.  You Can '  t See Me!  06:16, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No, it's fine, I'm done with it.
 * I believe that those videos weren't shown simply due to censorship issues (perhaps). Two of those videos mention things not suitable for younger audiences (I assume), such as farting, "cannibalism", and nudity. The UK website had changes in the past too. The assist trophy Devil was renamed Demon. Though, it's all speculation; the other language sites, except Japanese, also did not get extra videos. *kaburicho 02:43, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I never caught the Devil/Demon thing. I suppose censorship could be an issue, but yeah, Speculation, lets not jump to conclusions. Dengarde ► Complaints 02:52, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I am trying to get better on my meassages. I do still think that this section should be deleted, Green Kirby 13:57, 3 October 2007 (UTC)