Talk:Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program/Archives/2012

Article requires improvement
As a non-US resident I don't understand how the program works. Do people pay $1 and get $1.50 in coupons for food. Or pay a fixed amount of their income, and get an assured amount of money equal to an adequate diet? Please explain how someone in 1967 or 1978 or today would use food stamps to improve their standard of living?129.78.228.114 06:29, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

To answer your question, yes, years ago the Food Stamp Program would augment the income of the poor by letting people buy Food Stamps (.35 bought $1?). Now, recipients are given an Electronic Benefit Card (similar to a bank debit card) which allows them to purchase certain types of foods (i.e. non-prepared food) to help insure an adequate diet. Eligibility is for families at or below 130% of the Federal Poverty Level. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.56.164.73 (talk) 18:03, 18 July 2005


 * Recipients don't pay anything for the food stamps. They get a fixed amount per month that depends on their family size and the cost of living where they live. Other income and assets may also be factors. Bostoner (talk) 04:08, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Article Requires More Depth
This item should go beyond merely describing the various programs, and go into the politics, including political/legal support and opposition to the programs. I don't know much about this, but it seems appropriate to the topic, and to what Wikipedia is supposed to be. RudolfRadna 10:27 25 July, 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The history of the program is good, but the rest of the information- including the arguments for and against- is considerably lacking. -RomeW 10:00, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

What is interesting is that 15% of the US Population is on Food Stamps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.230.118.81 (talk) 07:27, 26 February 2007


 * That 15% has to do with high unemployment rates during the recession that started in 2008. Those numbers should go down once the economy recovers. I'd like to know how many people who qualify are not collecting out of embarrassment. Bostoner (talk) 04:08, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Statistics
I was wondering why the stats look so strange:

41 percent of participants are white; 36 percent are African-American, non-Hispanic; 18 percent are Hispanic; 3 percent are Asian, 2 percent are Native American, and 1 percent are of unknown race or ethnicity.

After some research I found that US statistics prefers to split black population between two categories. Interesting. 212.199.22.125 09:00, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

The groupings are made so that people of African descent such as Haitians are included in the Hispanic segment, rather than the African-American one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.71.206.17 (talk) 03:16, 28 July 2007

This article mostly based on USDA's own site
Considering the fact that the last thirty years has seen a significant decrease in the budgeted amount for the Food Stamp program (as well as the USDA's elimination of the term "hunger" from it's nomenclature (according to a recent newspaper comment by the executive director of the San Francisco Food Bank), I do not have much in the way of trust with the "official" story on this article.

When I was a child, my father paid a small portion of his meager income for Food Stamps. Were it not for this "buy-in", we most likely would have starved as a family. Yet this elimination of the "buy-in" is hailed as progress? I don't buy that for a second. We need more balance on this article, and not just what the government says is the truth. I'm not at all surprised that those who criticize the Food Stamp program have no real information backing up their opinions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kulturvultur (talk • contribs) 18:50, 24 November 2006

how much are people actually given in food stamps monthly
lets say for example, a guy is living at home with his parents. he is mentally ill and makes $0 a month. how much is this person entitled to in food stamps? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.139.240.209 (talk) 20:35, 23 December 2006 (UTC).
 * If he's mentally ill, then odds are he's receiving some type of medical benefits, so you'd have to know his income. Also, food stamps are distributed based on household income. If his parents are rich and he's under 22, then parents+guy are one household, so he gets nothing.


 * The maximum monthly allotment to a single-person household (which is the most he could ever get, presumably) is worth $155 in 2007, or $1860/year, not much. 66.30.12.29 05:06, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

...weekly
In Florida, it is apparently $68.88 per week for a family of four. http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20100506/LIFE/5060303/Food-stamp-cuisine-Family-of-four-eating-off-68-88-a-week. The media manipulates these figures to appeal to more readers. I didn't want to add another one that might confuse things more than enlighten. Student7 (talk) 22:17, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

"Critics of the Program"
I've started working on this section, but it needs help. Many of the arguments opposing the Food Stamp Program are put forth as indisputable facts, rather than in a neutral fashion ("Critics argue..."). This section has been poorly referenced and POV since July 2006, so it's time they got some attention. Owen 22:48, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The graph is confusing.


Rather than starting from 15 million it should start from zero so that the change is not exaggerated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.222.111 (talk) 11:18, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Well now it's up to 40,000+ 99.39.5.103 (talk) 15:08, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Section 4.2 Fraud and Abuse
I've edited the second paragraph of this section for spelling. However, I know of no reports, records, or papers that back the allegations of food stamps exacerbating alcoholism. I believe that the article should include a section regarding the truth or allegations of fraud and abuse, but it should also be underpinned by references/documentation. I don't want to simply pull the section for its lack of citation, but I have no information at this time with which to revise it. ~ Chimæridæ (talk) 02:22, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I removed this sentence as it makes no sense and is not cited: "In 2005, 9% of food stamp benefits went to eligible households." I'm pretty damn sure that SNAP does not give 91% of benefits to ineligible households.

Also, the section on fraud and abuse has NO citations of any kind. DFS (talk) 20:05, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

removed paragraph
I removed the following paragraph from the article, simply because it was wrongly placed at the start of the article. I'm not quite sure where it should be re-added.

. Today, while the program is still referred to as "Food Stamps", it actually has become an electronic food assistance program and has different names according to each of the 50 states that administer the program. In New Jersey, for example, its now called "Families First" and in Louisiana its called the "Louisiana Purchase Food Program". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.5.97.136 (talk) 15:38, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Food Stamps Image = Public Domain?
Seeing that Food Stamps are issued by the Department of Agricuture, a Federal Government Agency, does images of it make it an automatic Public Domain?? I've noticed a couple of "Stock photo sites" charge you to use images of food stamps, and there is one image on Flickr where the user copyrighted a scanned image of a Food Stamp. --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 09:06, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Removed misleading graph
I removed the figure File:Foodstamps.jpg, which was a graph purporting to show a sharp increase in food stamp use in recent years. This was done for three reasons: 1. the USDA website source listed as a data source does not exist; 2. it is misleading in that its Y axis does not start at zero, rather it starts at 15 million and ends at 25 million, exaggerating the putative increase (other editors have noted this); and 3. the creator of this graph, Nrcprm2026, has been banned from Wikipedia for account abuse and sockpuppetry, therefore his or her contributions should be viewed skeptically. If anyone cares to create a better graph, please do.Billwhittaker (talk) 18:44, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * There's good data at http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/SNAPsummary.htm if someone wants to graph it. Splargo (talk) 22:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Just as an FYI.... The feds have increased outreach in an attempt to increase enrollment over the past 10 years, so an increase in SNAP use is not necessarily indicative of anything else. DFS (talk) 20:07, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Someone should make a new plot for it which goes from 0 to 45,000 on the y-axis. 99.39.5.103 (talk) 15:24, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Globalize
The article Food Stamp Program had a globalize tag because other countries also do have a food stamp program. And as the article title implies a general overview as opposed to United States or American Food Stamp program, I the globalize tag should be left.Smallman12q (talk) 15:06, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree. It is, however, not easy to find projects in other countries that have exactly the same goal and means. In Germany, de:Arbeitslosengeld II comes close, which has the article Hartz concept interwiki-linked. --Ayacop (talk) 10:08, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

I think the article should be renamed to 'Food Stamp Program (USA)' or something, and kill the tag. Despite some other countries having food stamp programs, if someone wants to write articles about them then they can then have their own pages. It would make no sense to add details of other countries into such an in-depth article about the US program. And IMHO.. the US food stamp program is the main one of it's kind anyway.. here in the UK we have cash benefits only, and nothing comparable. Dvmedis (talk) 12:27, 16 March 2009 (UTC)


 * This article is clearly just about a United States program, so i removed the globalize tag. This article should probably be renamed to Food Stamp Program (USA) as suggested above or something along those lines. If people could improve Food stamps then Food Stamps and Food Stamp should be redirected but i dont see the point in redirecting at the moment when theres just a single sentence there. BritishWatcher (talk) 16:11, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

This article is lacking
How come this article makes no mention of the social stigma associated with food stamps because of its restrictions? Like the fact that prepared foods are forbidden to buy (McDonald's, Burger King or any restaurant) or if they are bought, then they must be eaten outside the establishment. And the fact that the maximum amount a single person may receive monthly in food stamps is $176. -- Wh ip it !  Now whip it good! 01:47, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not particularly certain that it is a stigma to not be able to use food stamps to buy restaurant food, although I'd believe it is stigmatizing to be a food stamp recipient in some other ways. As for Wikipedia, you need to find some kind of authorative source that says that it is stigmatizing to be a food stamp recipient. We can't just include our personal opinions in articles. I'm no good at research, but if you are, you could try looking for some kind of opinion poll that others have made, in which a representative segment of the USAn population is asked what they think about food stamp recipients. Or better yet, an article (like an online newspaper article) written on the basis of the result from such an opinion poll/survey.--Peter Knutsen (talk) 09:31, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

SYNTH problem
This was effectuated on June 18, 2008, by U.S. House Resolution 6124, The Food, Conservation, and Energy Act of 2008, enacted as Public Law over U.S. President George W. Bush's veto.[2][3]

Bush did not veto the farm bill because of SNAP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.248.251.195 (talk) 15:20, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Somebody add ELIGIBILITY info please
For example, are unemployed unmarried childless adults eligible if living w/ relatives, friends, non-spouse boy/girlfriends? Are you eligible if you have a lot of savings, but no income, or if you live off money from relatives or freeload with a lover? What proof of poverty do you need to provide? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aadieu (talk • contribs) 10:16, 4 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Not really the forum for this, but...! The standard used for households where no member is disabled is 130% Federal poverty standards.  That is calculated using gross monthly income.  The first 20% of earned income--wages, income from operating a business, etc.--is excluded from that gross income total.  Any money paid by a household member towards court-ordered child support is also taken off the gross income total.  In New York (and in many other states, I think), costs related to providing child care needed to maintain employment are excluded from the gross income total up to an allowable point.  Unearned income--Social Security benefits, unemployment benefits, etc.--is counted on a dollar-for-dollar basis.  Proof of income is required to verify eligibility.  For a job, this would include a month's worth of representative paystubs.  For self-employment, generally the previous year's filed federal tax return will suffice.  Social Security is often verifiable using government databases.  Most states have a system to cross-reference the data you provide against government databases--wages as reported for tax purposes, UIB control systems, the Social Security system, child support enforcement records, etc.


 * The gross income limit goes up to 200% when there is a disabled person in the household. Standards vary by state, I think, but generally the rule is that the person must be in receipt of SSI or SSD to be considered disabled.  In New York State, the 200% gross income test also applies to any household with verifiable child care costs stemming from employment.


 * Other gross income formulae apply in other, rarer contexts. They're a bit too complicated to get into here.


 * Childless adults living with relatives are eligible for Food Stamps depending on their own income. The benefit rate is heavily affected by verifiable shelter expenses, so what the individual contributes to the cost of their housing is important.  HOWEVER, adult children under the age of 22 living with their parents are required to apply with their parents, and the parents' income must be counted and verified.  (The fundamental rule is that a FS household consists of everybody who customarily purchases and prepares food together, but there are other rules for people who MUST be considered part of the same household.  That is just one of them.)


 * A summary of this information should be included in the article. I suppose I should do that.  Good luck to you.  67.242.157.254 (talk) 05:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

"Critics of the Program" Neutrality
The "Work Support" heading doesn't so much contain the viewpoint of critics but why critics are wrong. The heading should either be changed or the paragraph should contain legitimate criticisms.

The first sentence of the "Fraud and Abuse" paragraph doesn't seem to be supported by the rest of the paragraph. If only 9% of the food stamp benefits went to eligible households in 2005, what happened to the other 91%? That almost half of the benefits are overpaid also seems to support significant fraud, abuse, or negligence.

The general lack of continuity and citations in the section is troubling and very unhelpful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.212.131.116 (talk) 16:07, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

I removed the 9% and again point out that none of the info on fraud is cited. DFS (talk) 20:09, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

The division into proponents and critics seems arbitrary and shallow. For example, there is adequate research to show that food stamps enable the urban poor to pay more for housing, and that the urban poor face very high housing costs. But there is a divergence of views as to what would happen if food stamps removed from the equation. Either families would have to choose between rent and food (proponent's view) or landlords would have to reduce rents to take into account tenants' reduced spending power (critic's view). If you accept the latter at all, then you see that the benefits of this program are actually being realized by slumlords, who know their tenants get an extra $100 or so a month that can be collected as rent.98.71.100.13 (talk) 04:32, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I consolidated the "Critics" and "Proponents" sections into one "Impact" section for better WP:NPOV per WP:CRIT. I also fixed the vandalised fraud stats and added sources earlier. Some of the sourcing issues remain though. Siawase (talk) 06:04, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I was trying to figure out what to do there. The Critics/Proponents headings were flipped by a drive-by vandal back in April 2010. That The American Enterprise Institute was in the Proponents section should've been a tell. I'm better at vandal-tracking than manual reverts with intervening edits. Citation problems or not, at least I can read your version without wondering if I'd lost my mind. -- 75.111.29.35 (talk) 06:28, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, that was what happened. This article has had a disconcerting level of vandalism. The 44.8% fraud number was here for months, and that was a simple move of a decimal point vandalism. Siawase (talk) 06:38, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Income Maintenance
According to this section, Rossi stated that "the program rests on the assumption that households with restricted incomes may skimp on food purchases and live on diets that are inadequate in quantity and quality, or, alternatively skimp on other necessities to maintain an adequate diet" yet also that it was not to be a tool for Income Maintenance, defined as using the savings on food to increase expenditures on other things.

Isn't a household that is forced to "skimp on other necessities to maintain an adequate diet", and then begins receiving food stamps, and hence no longer has to "skimp on other necessities" fitting the definition of income maintenance? It certainly sounds like it, yet this section implies that those are distinct cases. Clarification is in order here; as presented here, Rossi's claims are inconsistent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.113.0.254 (talk) 20:11, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

What types of "food" did they eliminate in the 1990's? Bostoner (talk) 04:08, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

New documentary: Food Stamped
Has anyone seen Food Stamped? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzY7duIVMoE 99.39.5.103 (talk) 15:25, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Are there no books on the subject?
Not a single book is mentioned as further reading (or given as source). This looks rather strange. --Pjacobi (talk) 09:16, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

potential resource
From Portal:Current events/2011 December 15 ... The 2010 United States Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income. (Associated Press), excerpt ... 97.87.29.188 (talk) 01:16, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

potential resources
99.181.153.29 (talk) 03:44, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Foods Stamps vs. Poverty by Lizzy Ratner
 * Nation Conversations: Lizzy Ratner on Food Stamps' Surprising Success Story, The Nation December 15, 2011

Increase or decrease
The intro said there was a recent decrease, the first in 38 months. But I also just read somewhere that food stamp assistance has doubled in the last 4 years. Which is it:
 * 1) finally going down
 * 2) still going up

Let's assume good faith and suppose that the previous writer was not trying to make any political point. But let's also clarify the trend. --Uncle Ed (talk) 16:47, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Addressed by updating the number and removing the unduly-weighted mention of that one-time decrease from the lead section. Rostz (talk) 17:51, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Legislature in the 90s totally rewrote history of the 80s
Anyone else a tad confused by these two sentences from the 1993 Mickey Leland Childhood Hunger Relief Act paragraph? 'By 1993, major changes in food stamp benefits had arrived. The final legislation provided for $2.8 billion in benefit increases over Fiscal Years 1984-1988.' I decided not to edit it in case the mistake isn't actually obvious, but I would predict that '1984-1988' should be '1994-1998.' thanks for checking

Iranian Food Stamp Image
This article is about a U.S. government program, not the global usage of food stamps. I took down the image of Iranian food stamps from the 1980s. It was inappropriate and potentially misleading. 201.17.96.6 (talk) 17:01, 22 June 2012 (UTC)