Talk:Sureños

Rewrite!

 * This is one of the wost wiki articles that I have ever read. About 90% of the information is incorrect. I don't even think the author really knows what a Sureno or Norteno is.  Hint #1:  Surenos and Nortenos are not gangs.  They are both loose alliances of hundreds of different street gangs.  Hint# 2: there are no Norteno gangs in the San Fernando Valley region of Los Angeles.  Hint #3:  Some Sureno gangs from Los Angeles and San Diego wear red as colors (some also flag black, green, purple).  Hint #4:  There are several allis and rivals left out of the info box.  Hint #5: Sureno gangs are multiethnic, but predominantly Mexican-American. This article needs to be re-written and information need to be cited.  Beware of gross generalizations and misinformation this article.98.176.233.118 (talk) 06:05, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

I Agree, but you are wrong on a couple of things. 1- only I gang is allowed by LA eme to wear red and that is the east side Wilmas located in Wilmington ca. Due to their history before the sur-norte war. All other neighborhoods wear blue to represent Sur and some wear secondary colors(not red) to represent their particular set example- the watts varrio grape st. wear purple for grape. The same goes for nortenos. 2- the dividing line for south and north is Delano. Bakersfield is a southern city, Delano is claimed by the north. TombigG (talk) 21:53, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

No, you’re actually wrong about the color part. Sureño cliques can rep whatever they feel like, it depends on the set. RelatedToMarioPrayer (talk) 07:10, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Latvia
I find it a struggle to believe that the Sureños have some kind of Latvian chapter. Please provide references to this before reinserting these facts. d a n n o 23:11, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Rewritten!
I have rewritten the entire article, added verifiable links, citations, images, external links, appropriate categories, correct information concerning history, location, criminal activities, culture and other general information. I completely remade the reference list. There may be some minor errors but overall, it is complete, accurate and contains real information from a non biased perspective from a person with expertise on gangs.

MzNobody (talk) 19:09, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

what is your expertise on gangs ? the article needs citations for any new information.--ProfPolySci45 (talk) 22:44, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

My degree and work in the criminal justice field will suffice. Many articles needs additional citations to validate all the claims made. That is why we have templates requesting Wikipedia users to add more citations and references. Any vandalism on the pages that I monitor will be reverted immediately. Repeated vandalism will be reported. MzNobody (talk) 10:46, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

In my opinion it's still in dire need of a some serious editing. Some of it sounds like it's written by Sureños fanboys or something. 77.99.12.140 (talk) 04:16, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * WP:DIY and WP:BEBOLD? FYI: I haven't seen that editor at this page lately...Boogerpatrol (talk) 15:37, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Sureños
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Sureños's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "dc.state.fl.us": From Crips:  From Nuestra Familia: Prison Gangs - Gang and Security Threat Awareness, Florida Department of Corrections From Black Guerrilla Family: http://dc.state.fl.us/pub/gangs/prison2.html#bgf 

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 11:16, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Criminal Activity
This is quite a bold assertion, isn't a reference or two in order? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.11.235.1 (talk) 21:49, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Sureños have been known to conduct drive-by shootings on Sheriff's houses, threats on District Attorney and various other elected officials."
 * You're correct. There was other unsourced and puffery that needed removed. Niteshift36 (talk) 12:07, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Juggalos affiliation w/ Surenos: removing again from infobox
Good monrning. I am about to be bold and revert the re-insertion made by User:Niteshift36 where he re-added Juggalos as an ally of Surenos to the article infobox, based on | this source. The bulleted references to Juggalo influences cites 0/11 being related to Surenos (5 are to Blood sets) and Appendix 1 of source only references 1/37 listed Juggalo sets as influenced by SUR 13, so I think that this source falls far short of including the Juggalo reference to this level.Boogerpatrol (talk) 13:26, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The US Dept. of Justice felt it was relevant enough to include. Nobody is claiming ALL Juggalos are gang memebrs or that ALL Juggalo sets are allys. But there were enough and it is in the reliable source. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:27, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I do stand by the interpretation of the source offered above: with only 1 of 37 Juggalo groups in the appendix and 0 of 11 of the bulleted discussions associated with Surenos, I would say that the source is discussing how Juggalo groups have affiliation with a wide array of larger gang groups, with much stronger links (i.e. Bloods) to groups stated as rivals per the infobox. I think simply listing them as a Sureno "ally" is misleading at best, but I will defer from reverting further & encourage other interested editors to review and comment. Boogerpatrol (talk) 16:33, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Normally I'd agree, but the problem here is that Juggalo gangs are different than traditional gangs. If you look at their influences, you'll see a range from Aryans to Bloods. There isn't a trend nationally for them to affiliate with a single gang or nation. They are more localized in their affiliations. The inclusion illustrates the Surenos willingness to affiliate on a broader base. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:14, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I advocate for the complete removal of any reference to the Surenos as an "ally" of the Juggalos, as the single source only lists one instance of an alliance, and even then, this is just a small set, it's not even an LA or San Diego set. Solntsa90 (talk) 23:18, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

You're the only one here arguing for inclusion of a link that I (and others, obviously) consider as WP:UNDUE because it places too much weight into a single flimsy report and a single city set.

No, the inclusion does not "illustrate the Surenos willingness to affiliate on a broader base", as there is no evidence to draw such a broad conclusion, and I am starting to wonder if this is a trolling attempt to keep the Juggalos included as a Sureno ally. I'm removing it again, as I feel it is strongly WP:UNDUE. Solntsa90 (talk) 23:20, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Trolling attempt? Since you just threw AGF out the window, then let me reciprocate. Don't come in here acting like you give two shits about this article. You're probably just some fanboy that listens to ICP's particular kind of noise. You're very transparent. On the other hand, I have a lot of time invested in gang articles, most of which have nothing to do with Juggalos. Two people isn't a consensus so stop acting like it is. Niteshift36 (talk) 03:50, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Still agreed, as I noted above, the single row in the large appendix makes the association flimsy IMO, even if it is a WP:RS. Also, the column refers to "influence" not "allegiance", so literally some Juggalo's "connect" or big brother could be a Sureno as that would put 'em under their influence. That being said though, I went looking for a solid source when somebody added the NLR as a reference, and had a hard time finding one, even though this connection, from my WP:OR life experience, makes more sense.Boogerpatrol (talk) 00:30, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Nightshift, despite your temper tantrums and whining, the facts remain the same: Surenos are Not allied with the Juggalos, as per above, where the "source" you provide only cites them as being "influenced" by Surenos, not allied. Your claims thus are a stretch.

Unless you can prove without a doubt that the broader Sureno gang is allied with the Juggalo "gang", then you cannot make such presumptuous statements like they are "allies" with the Surenos based on a single bullet point that doesn't even support what you're saying. That is vandalism (and I only say it since AGF is hard to do with someone who seems to have a personal vendetta against the Juggalos for whatever reason, and then throws a fit and accuses me of being in their ranks).

Have a nice day! :)

Solntsa90 (talk) 20:03, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Whining and tantrums? What a laugh. You are running around to different articles, ones you've never given a shit about, and trying to play this same card. Now you've even taken to stalking me into a movie article and reverting my edits. Looking much like wiki-stalking my friend. Then you try this "I'm gonna report you" threat? Both of you seem to think that to be an ally can mean only some formal cooperation etc. They are listed as influenced by X. They aren't influenced by people they are fighting. Allied: "related; kindred". Kindred? Sounds like someone who influences you. World English Dictionary: "of the same type or class; related ". Same type or class huh.  Dictionary.com defines ally as "a person who associates or cooperates with another." Yet you honestly want me to think that a gang is influenced by another gang in the same town with no association at all? Ally is also definded as "to connect or be related, as through being similar or compatible ". If they're influenced by a gang in the same town, how would they not be similar? You're acting like there is only one single way to view the term allied. Niteshift36 (talk) 03:02, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

(P.S, I prefer Russian music, I don't really like rap music at all )


 * The source Niteshift uses to make the claim is actually IMO an excellent one for the topic of Juggalos, but there is absolutely NO independent or substantial discussion of Surenos there, literally just the one row entry in the appendix... I see also that Niteshift may have contributed this reference at Bloods, but at least there several of the prose discussions and many of the appendix references cite a Blood association, while none discuss Surenos in the source text.


 * By this point I'm genuinely curious what a (qualified) outside editor would say on this source and its appropriateness/ weight here, do you guys know WP:where someone may be willing to look at this?Boogerpatrol (talk) 00:48, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, if you bother looking at the edit history, I'm not the one who introduced this source at all to any of those articles. SUR13 and Surenos are the same thing. Qualified? What makes you decide I'm unqualified? Or that you are? Niteshift36 (talk) 03:02, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Quick note, my intent w/ using (qualified) was to imply that if an uninvolved editor looked at this they should be qualified, by posting this question in the right forum; I intended as a neutral statement, with no judgement to any of our respective (qualifications)...Boogerpatrol (talk) 15:44, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Japan is heavily influenced by China. Turkey is heavily influenced by Mongolia and Greece. Israel is heavily influenced by it's Arab neighbors. Does this mean these countries are "allies"? Please No original research., which is what you're doing every time you draw a broad conclusion such as you have done repeatedly.

As far as "caring" about these pages, Wikipedia isn't about caring--it's about accuracy. With that said, saying the Juggalos are allied with the nation-wide Sureno gang is outrageously inaccurate, so I hopped to the challenge.

Finally, "wiki-stalking"? No such thing. I just keep an eye out for problem editors. Solntsa90 (talk) 03:11, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Also problematic' is the usage of the plural form "sets", despite there being a single set referenced in your source, and a flimsy source on this issue at that. Why the statement "sets" in the plural form if there is only one set being (shoddily) referenced? Solntsa90 (talk) 03:21, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Where has anyone claimed a "nation-wide" alliance? It hasn't been claimed. In fact, you actually said "Only one minor gang "Juggalos of Statesville" have an alliance with "SUR 13" You called it an alliance yourself, back when you were falsely claiming it implied a national alliance. That fake claim was addressed and then you changed your tune again. Second, reading more than one definition and applying it isn't original research. Last, as for your "problem editors" comment......try again sport. You went to a movie article, reverted my edits, then reverted your revert. In other words, you edited twice and it was exactly how you found it. You simply reverted out of reflex. That will be strong evidence of wiki-stalking. Lastly, calling a content dispute vandalism or OR doesn't relieve you from the 3RR. Remember that.Niteshift36 (talk) 03:52, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm removing it from the infobox simply because this is taking up way more of my time that I care to have it take. I wasn't the one who even added it, but can clearly see why that editor did. My removal here pertains to this article alone. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:16, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * fair enough, nor do I intend to follow this source to other articles...Boogerpatrol (talk) 15:44, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Eastern Washington

 * Eastern Washington is almost exclusively either a Sureño or Norteño territory with the only exception being Spokane, Washington.

If I'm guessing right as to what this is trying to say, I'd rephrase it:


 * In eastern Washington there is little overlap between Sureño and Norteño territories, except in Spokane.

Is that close to accurate? —Tamfang (talk) 16:48, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, it doesn't belong at all. The source is questionable for RS standards and there is no reason to single out a small area like that unless there is something particularly notable about it. It's trivial. Niteshift36 (talk) 02:12, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Update Sureños
This page needs to be updated. all of it, there outdated. Someone needs to do more research on Sureños and there sets. True.BlueXiii (talk) 01:01, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * You need to read the policy WP:V and WP:RS before you edit again. Stop adding material that is not sourced by a reliable source. It is a requirement on Wikipedia. Niteshift36 (talk) 01:28, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Sureños. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.military.com/news/article/gangs-increasing-in-military-fbi-says.html

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False entries
There are certain parts of this article that are totally incorrect. Santa Rosa is not a sureno stronghold. Surenos have no stronghold in The Bay Area. however there is a presence of upstate surenos in many bay area cities. Breakchains (talk) 07:23, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 January 2020
Onglok (talk) 00:34, 19 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Grayfell (talk) 00:35, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 June 2020
South Los 13 2600:8801:DF00:43AF:486F:1CD0:C0A6:A772 (talk) 22:29, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It's not clear what you want, so this is ❌. If you wish for this to be considered please form your request as replace X with Y, and provide references to reliable secondary sources to verify your requested changes. John from Idegon (talk) 22:45, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

North /South line
The LAT source doesn't actually say what the editor of that part claims in terms of Fresno being the dividing line for North/South in CA Mexican gangs. The article doesnt discuss the topic at all. I added a law enforcement source that has it as Bakersfield or Delno (north of Bakersfield). This accords with the Norteno page and most other sources ive seen say. Desqjockey (talk) 20:51, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Typo in Criminal Activity section
In the last paragraph the word “led” should be used instead of “lead” Pjr574 (talk) 06:52, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

More criminal activity and history to add
On April 9th, 2023 three gang members shot at a pedestrian who was wearing red in the city of Fremont then shot and killed 5 year old girl, Eliyanah Crisostomo on the I-880 freeway. Three members of the Sureño gang were later arrested in Santa Cruz and have been charged with the murder. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/eliyanah-crisostomos-family-just-innocent-victims-in-880-fatal-freeway-shooting/ https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/eliyanah-crisostomo-shooting-sureno-gang-members-arrested-interstate-880-fremont/ Aaron Rac (talk) 12:43, 19 April 2023 (UTC)