Talk:Surgeon's knot

You-tube videos
(Following comment moved from User talk:Donald Albury) "Good man, there was a reason for changing Surgeon's knot video. The English version is wrong! This knot is shown incorrectly at the base with just a simple overhand knot. The first knot must be started with a Double overhand knot. If you want it to be an English-language video, you have to pay attention to it. Thank you. --StromBer (talk) 15:47, 30 December 2019 (UTC)"


 * If the video is incorrect, then it should be removed. However, I have some concerns about replacing it with a German language video.
 * 1) While non-English sources are allowed, they are discouraged. Most readers of the English Wikipedia do not know German (I took 2 years of German [50 years ago], but I am certainly not fluent).
 * 2) Wikipedia is not a how-to guide. While we are talking about the External links section, where a link to a how-to guide might be acceptable, there is no pressing need to include such a link.
 * 3) How do we judge whether a video is a reliable source for how to tie the knot?
 * In short, I would prefer to remove the current link to You tube and not replace it with the link to the German language video. - Donald Albury 17:29, 30 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The video is wrong. The second sentence already writes this. ....Adds an additional twist when tying the first throw and forms a double overhand knot....  And in "your" video just a simple overhand knot is shown, no matter how many surgical hand movements are shown there. Even in the different German videos, the correct processes are not always shown. --StromBer (talk) 19:34, 30 December 2019 (UTC)


 * As I tried to indicate above, I have no objection to removing the video from The Brain Sturgeon. I would like to see opinions from other editors on whether the German language video is appropriate as an external link. - Donald Albury 21:58, 30 December 2019 (UTC)


 * There are so many videos that just don't show it properly. And I think it's important that here in Wiki is shown correctly.
 * | Surgeon's startknot =Double overhandknot While this video says it was made for a surgeon's knot, it shows ONLY the first double overhand knot with different finger movements.
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av2gp-3mKwE?t=216 This demonstration is fundamentally correct. In the end, he doesn't just tie an overhand knot. But again two more overhand knots, i.e. a total of 1x double overhand knot and 3x one overhand knot. So there are 2 overhand knots 'too much'.
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATe4Tw23Etk This demonstration is also fundamentally correct. Finally, he makes several overhand knots. These are correctly knotted cross knots (square or reef knots).
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGygK6sbIC4?t=61  This is a fishing knot with 6 x inside overhand knots and has nothing to do with a surgical knot & Squarknot.
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rN3ZNiRge8  And finally three variants, including a shoe knot version with a double overhand knot.--StromBer (talk) 12:22, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

I have asked for input from others at Wikipedia:External links/Noticeboard. - Donald Albury 18:49, 31 December 2019 (UTC)


 * I saw the note at ELN. It doesn't matter whether the video is a reliable source, because ==External links== are not supporting article content.  Non-English links have to be marked and are discouraged (even more than a non-English source), but they are not prohibited.
 * I think there might be several good options, and I've left at note at WT:MED to see if anyone can help identify a good one. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:55, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

How about I simple create a video of a double tie followed by 4 single ties. Which is described as a surgeons knot here.

Specifically the ref says "The first throw in the knotting sequence is often looped or twisted twice, producing the surgeon's knot." This is the technique I standardly use.

I can do one as a tool tie and one as a hand tie. We can get this on either a real person or on a suturing practice device. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 08:32, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
 * seems like a very good idea, I would be in favor of Doc James suggestion--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 10:19, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Can either of you find such a video? (It doesn't have to be on YouTube, but it should work for people all over the world.)  WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:46, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I could make one eventually... Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 08:42, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
 * That could be uploaded to commons, then no longer an external link --valereee (talk) 14:04, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I associate surgeon's knots with walking boots, which aren't mentioned in the article for some reason. There are videos for using them with boots. Doug Weller  talk 12:17, 9 January 2020 (UTC)