Talk:Survey of Palestine

Name
I was a bit surprised by your choice of name, since I have never seen anything except "Survey of Palestine" as author on a map produced by this organization. That includes the maps you have included in the article plus all the 1:20K maps, 1:50K maps, 1:100K maps and many town plans. Note that Gavish's book (preface) says "The government’s Department of Surveys—the Survey of Palestine–was the chief professional component of the system." indicating that Gavish considers Survey of Palestine to be the name and Department of Surveys to be a description. And on p23 "led the government to establish the Survey of Palestine as a fully fledged department." Similarly p45, "the first Director (Surveyor—General) of the Survey of Palestine" and so on. And the list of directors on p48. In the Gazette I see "Survey Department", "Surveys Department", "Department of Surveys" and "Survey of Palestine" -- no name stands out as the official name. I propose that we use what is by a very large margin the best known name, which is Survey of Palestine. Zerotalk 11:08, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I admit I struggled with that question. I went for British Colonial precedents on Wikipedia (Survey Department of Sri Lanka) as SoP overlaps with our existing Survey of Palestine (which probably needs a better title as well). I am happy to defer to your authority here - please feel free to change as you suggest. Onceinawhile (talk) 11:16, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I will. It is like Survey of London, Survey of Egypt (an important institution that deserves an article), Survey of India and indeed Survey of Israel. Zerotalk 13:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Incidentally, this looks interesting but I don't seem to have access. If you can get it, please send me a copy. Also, the lower few of the 1:100K maps you have displayed were based on SofP maps but with many of the names changed to Hebrew alternatives. I don't think I found the English maps they are based on; can you find them? Zerotalk 13:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Now in your email. On the 1:100k maps, from memory Gavish explains that the first 16 maps were created before 1948 and the rest were created after. So the lower set of maps may not have had an English original. Onceinawhile (talk) 13:57, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * In the right margin, there is reference to 1940s maps. War Office rather than SofP maps though. Except for the map directly below Beersheba, the South Levant maps only extended slightly into Palestine from Jordan. I have a few and there is an index here. Zerotalk 14:38, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

A problem with moving is that Survey of Palestine already exists as an article about the 1945-6 document. What to do? Should we change that one to "A Survey of Palestine" or "Survey of Palestine (1945–1946)" or something? Zerotalk 13:40, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I have just moved it to Survey of Palestine (Anglo-American Committee). Onceinawhile (talk) 13:59, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I have just created Survey of Palestine (disambiguation). To fix the titles per above will require your admin powers. Onceinawhile (talk) 07:17, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I think I did it. The system is broken, as when an article is deleted to make a move the corresponding talk page is not moved. If you see a problem, let me know and I'll try to fix it. Zerotalk 07:48, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Alternative display of 1:20,000 maps – Last Available
The table below, rather than showing the earliest available, shows the last set of Survey of Palestine maps. I think having both sets in the article is too much. Onceinawhile (talk) 20:57, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Relation to Survey of Israel in 1948
The statement "After 1948 it became the Survey of Israel." was removed by. I propose that the statement be returned with a reference including a source like the following:

Or, another suitable source that describes the transition.

Comments? I don't know the subject well enough myself to make the change. Thanks. - DutchTreat (talk) 12:34, 19 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi thanks for raising this. Perhaps we change it to "In early 1948, the British Mandate appointed a temporary Director General of the Survey Department of the Jewish State in Israel, which became the Survey of Israel. The source is below.
 * Early 1948: Moshe Yohnovetski was appointed by the British Mandate as temporary Director General of the Survey Department of the Jewish State in Israel (exact date is unknown). The appointment is assumed to have been made between February and April 1948.
 * Regards, Onceinawhile (talk) 15:57, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * {ping|Onceinawhile}} I like your wording. This accurately reflects the transition. - DutchTreat (talk) 16:27, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I find it hard to imagine the Mandate authorities giving out a title including the words "Jewish State in Israel" when there wasn't one (or an Israel).Selfstudier (talk) 17:33, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I suggest referring to MY as a temporary director as the first source above does. Selfstudier (talk) 18:12, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

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