Talk:Sushi/Archive 1

Misc. comments
This is a slightly nitpicky question, but is there such a thing as a harbor parasite? There is a line in this articlestating that sashimi isn't made with freshwater fish, "which are more likely to have harbor parasites are harmful to humans if uncooked." I want to correct it, but I'm not sure if it should read, "which are more likely to have harbor parasites, which are harmful to humans if uncooked." or "which are more likely to harbor parasites, which are harmful to humans if uncooked." The trials and tribulations of an English major during summer.... ---Steve

Despite the kanji, this looks like it was written by an American not familiar with the real Japanese sushi culture. It's my understanding that any Japanese sushi chef will tell you that the rice, not the fish, is really central; and I always thought Japanese folks ate it with their hands, not chopsticks. --LDC


 * One data point:


 * Although I've heard the same thing you say (about even Nigiri Sushi being finger food), I haven't spent enough time in Japan to personally confirm or deny that rumor. When I started eating Sushi in the U.S., though, I paid a lot of attention to how the Japanese or Japanese-Americans in the various restaurants were eating it and they seem to use chopsticks for everything except hand-rolls. So so do I. :) --Atlant 17:53, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I have the same sense as LDC, that sushi in the Japanese meaning really refers to food made with a particular kind of rice with vinegar dressing. I'm re-writing parts of the article to reflect that.

Of course, this is linguistically tricky: if we Westerners use the word to mean a thing that's different from what a Japanese person means by it.... Descriptive versus prescriptive, right? But in the context of an encyclopedia, we ought to at least start with the Japanese meaning of the words. --DanielVonEhren 00:04, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The word sushi refers to the dish as a whole; neither the topping nor the rice are SO central that without one it would still be sushi! Ask any Japanese person what "sushi" is and not a single one will say anything along the lines of "oh it's rice with vinegar in it". Sushi is an English word that has come to refer to a complete dish with rice and toppings; this is the sense used in this article. The original term Japanese: 寿司 sushi (-zushi in some compounds such as makizushi), written in kanji, means snack and refers to rice, but not fish or other toppings.[1] Outside of Japan, sushi is often misunderstood to mean clumps of rice topped with raw fish I think this entire excerpt is extremely misleading. First of all, sushi is now commonly used in English (and many other languages) such that the average person would have at least a basic understanding of what it is, but it is NOT an "English word" (which would imply that it is originally English). Secondly, 寿司 in Japanese means neither "snack", nor does it refer to the rice, NOR is it in any way the "original" term! That kanji compound is a pair of arbitrary Chinese characters selected during the Edo period because they look pretty and can be pronounced "sushi" (this is pretty common in Japanese). They have no intrinsic relation to the rice or fish, and refers instead to the dish "sushi" as a whole. As per the Japanese wikipedia article, there are 3 other related words pronounced "sushi": 酸し meaning "sour" or "vinegar-y", 鮓 which means preserved fish, and 鮨 which refers to a type of fish sauce. The "original" word is probably 酸し and the dish was called such due to the vinegared rice, but the vinegared rice alone is more properly called 酢飯 (sumeshi, vinegar+rice, noted elsewhere in the article). Inside Japan, as well as outside, sushi is indeed thought (not "misunderstood") to mean clumps of rice topped with a topping (most often raw fish). In the sense that sushi without rice is just sashimi, whereas ANY topping (and I really mean just about ANY topping) can be used in place of raw fish, the rice is indeed more "central" to the dish; the topping, however, is extremely important. The article shouldn't continue to reflect the kind of misinformation in it now, however commonly-stated or easy to source. Orinthe 04:49, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It's March 2006. This article still looked more like something written by a westerner with book knowledge and firsthand restaurant eating experience despite all the contribution that must have been made since inception. So I added my two bits. You can look at the revision history. Sorry I was too lazy to log in, since these compulsions to revise must be done at the spur of the moment or it never happens.
 * As for nigiri sushi, it was historically eaten with chopsticks in the Edo period. The notion of nigiri sushi as "finger food" is a recent thing that a traditionalist wouldn't want to encourage.
 * Now, this whole notion of "descriptive versus prescriptive" sounds like a false argument to me. That would be a valid point to make with a dictionary, which is about word usage. An encyclopedia is about facts, right? You can't be descriptive or prescriptive with facts. Switching arguments, right? --24.5.125.75 10:47, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

The chopstick claim was in the page as I found it, actually. Gone now. I'll plead 'guilty' to being an American, but not to entire ignorance. :) It's rice and not fish that makes it sushi, of course (there's lots of fishless sushi) but the -quality- of fish in fish sushi is essential. Also, have some links. -- FOo

What is the history of sushi? What are the customs? What are the differences between sushi, sushi customs, and sushi practices in Japan and in other nations? Kingturtle 01:58 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)

Wasabi and horseradish are two different things. Some restaurants substitute horseradish for wasabi, but it doesn't have health benefits of real wasabi. I believe it's simply incorrect to state or imply this. Perhaps this would be a good place for the sushi-eating-howto: http://www.eugeneciurana.com/musings/sushi-eating-HOWTO.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.16.250.44 (talk • contribs)
 * As someone who have had quite a long experience with sushi eating in Japan on Japanese restaurants. Chopsticks are used by the majority but some people eat sushi with the hands. Lord Metroid 09:59, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Rendering in Firefox
This page renders poorly in Mozilla Firefox and the images don't look great. Can anything be done?

Fire fox works just fine to render this page. Are you using a new/old program? What's wrong with the pics and such? Sveden


 * I've had the same problem in Firefox. Specifically, the two [edit] boxes generated by "History" and "Chinese origins" kind of overlap in FF, but look fine in Mozilla 4.7 (same Gecko engine, so far as I know) and IE6. I alleviated the problem (it still looks a bit hincky) by adding a sentence between "History" and "Chinese origins". I've got a screenshot; I'll try to report it over at the Village Pump.


 * I suspect that part of the problem is 'more pictures than there are words' (of course, that still makes it a bug). To my tastes, we have more pictures than are warranted; they might do with some culling, or at least re-distribution across the article.


 * DanielVonEhren 00:23, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Live sushi?
Can someone who knows more about sushi than I (most people...) say something in the article about sushi which is not only eaten raw but "alive" as well? For instance ebi odori or, "dancing shrimp", is supposedly shrimp which is prepared and served within seconds of being taken from a tank live? How widespread is the practice in Japan?--Deglr6328 02:36, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I think you are talking about "Odorigui" which is a recipe to eat very small white fish called, unsurprisingly, "Shira-uo", lit. white fish. "Ebi odori" is, from what I can guess, is an Ikezukuri of ebi (only large species) with a fancy name. It isn't the best way to eat, keeping shrimp in a tank make them lose their taste and it is only done at restaurants with a tank. It isn't widespread largely limited to specialized restaurants because having a tank for fish means permits and extra costs. BTW, I think "Dancing shrimp" is a Chinese dish where live shrimp are drowned in strong liquor. Revth 02:07, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I see. Very gross! :o) .--Deglr6328 07:18, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Removing External links
I'm removing a number of External links in the article:


 * Sushi Art 'is a pure commercial catalog, and I don't see any compelling special knowledge that it contains.'


 * Step-by-step illustrated sushi rolling guide 'is a non-existent page.'


 * Sushi Suki The ultimate guide to Sushi for non-Japanese 'is a blank page.'


 * Sushi Secrets The Sushi's Secrets DVD is a fun, easy and entertaining way for you to learn how to make delicious sushi at home. (includes presentation, content, dvd info, screen shots and a trailer) 'is a blank page'


 * 'I'm not too crazy about' Sushi recipes 'since it's not about Japanese food, but some Medeterranean/Asian fusion food. I may ice it later.'

DanielVonEhren 00:24, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Some are only blank pages because the editor has put a / on the end of the URL where they should be one. Remove the / and they work fine. Ben W Bell 12:03, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

--

I also removed a number of external links that were obviously just commercial sites attempting to bring in ad revenue. I'm sure lots of them will reappear because I've removed a few of them before.

Re-arranged the sections
I've moved the "History of sushi" section to the end of the article. I usually like a history section first, but in this case it was hard to follow the historical sequence without the context of what sushi is today. I made no changes whatsoever to the text in the History secion, just its position in the article.

I also moved some of the pictures around a bit. I'm not really really happy with most of the pictures as they are. They are too dark, and for me they have too much other 'stuff', which would make it hard for a reader with no knowledge of sushi to understand where the sushi ends and the background stuff begins. None the less, I don't have better pictures at this time, so rather than deleting them, I kind of stashed them around the article. But I need to acknowledge that they are still not well placed.

DanielVonEhren 22:03, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Proposal: change to structure
Having spent some time re-working, re-arranging, and thinking about this article, I've been considering how the table of contents should end uplooking&mdash;in other words, what should be in the article, what shouldn't be in the article, and how it should be organized. So here's a proposal.


 * Move the history section to a separate "History of sushi" article.


 * I think the history stuff is essential, and in fact so important that it deserves separate attention. The introduction to the Sushi article ought to have a paragraph describing its Chinese origins and a brief history (two or three sentences) and then a link to the "History of sushi" article. It would be nice, by the way, if somebody could cite a few sources for the information in the History section.


 * An expanded Table of Contents might look like this:


 * 1. Kinds of sushi
 * (Close to the current content)
 * 2. Ingredients in sushi
 * 2.1. Sushi rice
 * (How is it different from other rice: the kind of rice and its characteristics. Move the recipe to the Wiki cookbook)
 * 2.2. Toppings
 * (Not so much long lists, as the kinds of toppings (fish, beef, vegetable, etc).
 * 2.3. Condiments
 * (Not so much long lists, as the kinds of condiments.
 * 3. Presentation
 * (Concepts about combining different fillings; how it is served)
 * 4' Kitchen utensils for making sushi
 * (Links to individual tools)
 * 5. Becoming a sushi chef
 * (How long it takes, what the training encompasses)

I'd like to see a section on eating at a Japanese restaurant (both inside and outside of Japan), but I think of that as a separate article; afterall, you don't get just sushi at a Japanese restaurant.

Thoughts?

DanielVonEhren 19:59, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It's been about a week now, with no commentary on my proposed changes, so I decided to Be Bold, and went ahead began some of the changes.

I've created a new History of sushi page by cut-and-paste from the History section of this article. There's a link to the new page in the Intro section, hidden under the word originated in the third paragraph. That sentence is a kind of weak; any improvements are welcome, of course. I didn't change a word, which&mdash;from a certain point of view&mdash;means that the new History of sushi page is a rather awkwardly structured article at the moment. I'll go and give it a proper introduction and so forth in a few days if nobody else does it first (please do).

I'm also adding some of the proposed new sections, although they'll be a little sparse for the next few days.

And lastly, there are one or people who have lately been improving the History section; I'll leave a little note on their Talk pages to point out the change I've made.

DanielVonEhren 16:22, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

DanielVonEhren's changes to the history of sushi may have been well-meaning but his insertion of the statement that 'sushi originated in China' really has problems. It might have seemed like the ideal filler sentence at the time, but:

1. It is too extreme a statement as it stands and hardly seems warranted by the facts:


 * True, something using the characters meaning 'sushi' in modern Japanese was eaten in ancient China but it wasn't anything like modern sushi.
 * Is there a properly substantiated historical link proving that this kind of food was actually brought from China to Japan and did not already exist in Japan?

In view of this, it seems a breathtaking leap to baldly state that the origins of sushi are in China.

2. It is a provocative statement that falls into the old 'everything was invented in China' syndrome that is so prevalent amongst the Chinese and so irritating to its neighbours.

I think the article needs to be rewritten with a little more respect for the nuances of history.

Bathrobe 4 April 2005


 * Couple of notes, Bathrobe.


 * First, your comments would probably be more helpful over on the new History of sushi page. An amazing lively discusson (some of it even with citations) has erupted there.


 * Second, I wouldn't doubt that you're correct about the 'provocative' statement. Just to be clear: I myself have no knowledge of the historical development of sushi, and have never claimed any; I simply cut existing words from the sushi article and pasted them into a new article called History of sushi, making no changes. The goal was to keep the size of the article manageable. If I put a summary sentence in that implied a wrong conclusion (I don't recall even doing that, but still...), then you should correct it (Be Bold!). But, watching from the outside, I'd say that what the History of sushi article needs most is some research. The words, as I moved them, were supported by no references at all. You can help improve that.


 * DanielVonEhren 04:32, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I added this comment here because this is where you first added the note that sushi originated in China. It wasn't there before you added it. Check the history of the article -- 12 March 15:21.


 * Bathrobe


 * Sure. Right. Absolutely. You got me. Busted.


 * Now, to return to the central point of my comment: If you don't like the sentence, why not change it? Be Bold. Why take the time to write about the sentence; why not re-write it? Again, I just needed a place to hang a link.

DanielVonEhren 11:59, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

'Sure. Right. Absolutely. You got me. Busted.' No need to be so sarcastic and patronising. You made a thoughtless and unwarranted addition to the text (which you couldn't even remember making), which was in due course paraded on the first page of Wikipedia (Did you know that sushi originated in China?) Is there any need to take that attitude when you're pulled up?

Bathrobe 09:04, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No response? Since there seemed be no way to salvage it, I've taken your words to heart and deleted the entire ridiculous reference to sushi originating in China.

Bathrobe 04:01, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Guiness World Records

 * 1) I converted measurements to metric, and put metric in pride of place. This is because Japan is a metric country, so I assume the original measurements were in metric, and some of the measurements obviously seem to have been originally metric (i.e. they are round or near-round metric figures, but odd non-metric figures.)
 * 2) What are the dollars in this article? I assume US dollars. But the original prices would have been in Japanese yen. What exchange rate was used to do the conversion? The exchange rate at the time? The exchange rate at the time of the Guiness World Records publication? Some random other time? We should report the value of transactions in the original currency used, and any conversion to another currency should be qualified with how the exchange rate used was derived (e.g. X JPY (or USD Y, at average 2004 JPY/USD exchange rate).  Otherwise, the conversion may become updated, and if the exchange rate used for the conversion is not in some sensible way related to the original transaction, the use of one date/periods exchange rate over anothers is basically a random decision.
 * 3) Is this use of Guiness World Records compatible with the publisher's copyright? In particular, if Wikipedia quoted from GWR too frequently, then Wikipedia as a whole might be in violation of GWR's copyright, even if individual articles are not. --samuel katinsky

Hi, (1) Is fine; (2) The only reference of dollars in the article is the cost of the world's most expenisve sushi. We are no allowed to convert it to JPY per WP:MOS; (3) The only text quoted for the QWR is "'Most Expensive Fish'" - not a copyright violation. Hope you understand.  K ilo-Lima|(talk) 15:33, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I take it your source listed the said prices in USD, since commercial transactions in Japan are done in JPY. That suggests the prices you cite are already figures converted from origial JPY prices, so they are secondary numbers coming from an arbitrary exchange rate. I think you could do better by investigating the primary source that includes information in the original currency. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.125.75 (talk • contribs)


 * Quick question but does the fact that a tuna was sold in Tsukiji fish market in Tokyo for xxx,xxx,xxx yen have true relivance to an article on sushi? Well yes of course it was probably made into sushi, what about the worlds most expensve rice, or wasabi or soy sauce? I just dont think is specific enough. Maybe in a the article on tuna?

Other fillings
In addition to using avocado and cucumber, I make sushi with carrots, kiwi, mango, asparagus, apple, and other fruits and vegetables as I see fit, and as are available. I especially like mango and aparagus. Nroose 01:11, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Marks & Specer sushi, which is quite nice, includes peppers, tuna and cucumber in one Californian roll. Nice...  K ilo-Lima|(talk) 15:35, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Body sushi?
Someone has added a link to an unwritten article for 'body sushi'. Could you clarify what this means?

OK, I've checked it out. It means nyotai-mori. (Since I was under the impression that nyotai-mori was sashimi, not sushi, shouldn't this be in the sashimi section?)

Bathrobe 08:40, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

15MAY05 reversion
I've reverted the last few changes. There is a reference to "Mrs. Galaragga", which wasn't clear. Who is Mrs. Galaragga, what did she say, and where did she say it?

Also removed the phrase "special rice" from the intro. Sushi is made with regular rice prepared in a specific manner, but I don't understand why it is special.

DanielVonEhren 16:48, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

5JUNE05
I see no mention either of gunkan or of musubi. I will be putting on a demo/talk about sushi at the Esperanto convention in Austin TX next week and when I recover from that I will post on gunkan and musubi if no one beats me to it.

--Haruo 00:06, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Actually, it looks to me like you have Gomokuzushi written where you should have Gunkanzushi (also the kanji following is incomplete). And then you have Gomokozushi (should be "Gomokuzushi") in the proper place, i.e. for "Kansai-style sushi"). I will look up the right kanji aliases after I get back from Austin.

--Haruo 20:44, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Went ahead and changed Gomokozushi to Gomokuzushi (and added kanji for it), and replaced the preexisting Gomokuzushi with Gunkanzushi (and added kanji for that, too). This latter turns out to revert a change made by DanielVonEhren on May 31; perhaps DVE intended to correct "Gomoko" to "Gomoku" and instead inadvertently substituted it for "Gunkan". In any event I'm confident my correction is correct (and also that I have supplied the right kanji). It might be noted that "Gomoku" means "mixture", but idiomatico-etymologically it's roughly "five-kind", i.e. consisting of five main ingredients all mixed together.

--Haruo 06:57, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Nori alternatives?
Can anyone tell me if there is anything else besides nori that can be used to wrap the sushi roll in? thank you in advance. Jeri
 * Egg is commonly used. It is beaten, and prepared like a crepe or thin pancake. ManoaChild 23:38, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I've just noticed that this is mentioned in the article under omelette. However, it is not just used as a pouch, as the article suggests.  It can also be used for futumaki. ManoaChild 00:06, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Sticky Rice
Would suchi rice be the same as sticky rice, or are they different? Also, if that is not the case, why not use sticky rice and turn that into suchi-rice; that way, you can get the best of both worlds -- it'll be even MORE sticky. Maybe this issue should be addressed in the article.


 * I believe sticky rice refers to mochigome, a sweet rice that is pounded into mochi rice cakes. It is also used to make sekihan (a traditional food of red adzuki beans and rice) and various rice crackers & sweets. While the term 'sticky rice' may be ambiguous, mochi rice is generally not used for sushi. --Dforest 01:22, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Sumeshi
I found lots of copies of this word on Google, but it doesn't appear in the dictionary, and I've never heard it, only "sushimeshi". The Sanseido online dictionary and Jim Breen's dictionary both list "sushimeshi" but neither lists "sumeshi". Can we get some evidence that "sumeshi" is more common than "sushimeshi"? --DannyWilde 12:59, 27 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Try searching in Japanese: 酢飯 (sumeshi) 745,000 hits; 寿司飯 (sushimeshi) 631,000 hits.
 * Also, the words have a slightly different meaning, the former meaning vinegared rice, and the latter meaning rice prepared for sushi.  I think it's better not to define sushi as 'something made with sushi rice' as it seems like a circular definition to me. Dforest 14:19, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Several points:
 * 1) Try using quotation marks. Google gives many less hits with "酢飯". Because "sumeshi" isn't a recognized word, most of the hits you quote are for pages with the two kanjis 酢 and 飯 somewhere on them, not necessarily together. --DannyWilde 14:43, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) "Sushimeshi" is the mixture of vinegar, sugar and boiled rice used to make sushi. I looked at several of the Google links for "sumeshi" which contained recipes, and they all looked the same as "sushimeshi" to me - I couldn't see the difference you mention. --DannyWilde 14:43, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
 * 3) A circular definition would be defining "sushi" as something made with "sushimeshi" and then defining "sushimeshi" as something made with "sushi": that is not what is happening. What sushimeshi is is clearly explained on the page itself, and it is not defined in terms of sushi. --DannyWilde 14:43, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Hi Ben, I spoke to my native Japanese coworkers about this. One of them said he had never heard of the term 寿司飯 'sushimeshi', and that  酢飯 'sumeshi' was the usual word. The other said he heard of the word, but that he grew up using 'sumeshi', and had not heard of the other until recently, suggesting that 'sushimeshi' is a neologism. Note the Japanese Wikipedia articles on sushi, and Japanese cuisine both use 酢飯 'sumeshi'.

Regarding Google, you are correct about the quotation marks; I had forgotten it behaves this way. But it still returns more hits for "酢飯” than "寿司飯”. I agree the difference is largely a semantic one. Though one of my coworkers suggested that sushimeshi may also refer to the cooked rice before vinegar is added. Also, it is conceivable that sumeshi could be used for things that are not considered sushi.

Regarding circular definition, it seems to me that to say 'Sushi is made from sushimeshi' is like saying 'Pizza is made from pizza dough', or 'A sandwich is made from sandwich bread', or perhaps 'Pancakes are made from pancake batter'. Dforest 09:45, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Kappamaki
"Kappamaki" sounds to me to be the same as what I know as "cukemaki". Is this an alternate name, a similar but different item, or is "cukemaki" a Hawaii-only name? ManoaChild 04:53, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Speaking as someone who's lived both in California and Japan, I've never heard "cukemaki" in either place, only "kappamaki". It's a cute name, and probably merits a Hawaii-specific mention.  (I've had Hawaiian spam musubi.. mmm!) --Che Fox 05:08, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Never heard that one before. Is it pronounced 'cuke' in the English sense of cucumber? Cucumber is kyuuri (きゅうり) in Japanese. Occasionally in Japan you might see kyuumaki (きゅう巻き) as in anakyuumaki (穴きゅう巻き), i.e. anago (conger eel) and cucumber, perhaps thats what you're remembering. Dforest 05:34, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
 * yes, "cuke" as in cucumber. I'm thinking that it could be just a family thing, or something that I picked up from somebody. It isn't a word that comes up in normal conversation. ManoaChild 06:18, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

California roll
The article has one mention of "california roll" but doesn't define it. I'm not sure how to define it so could someone else include it in a suitable place in the article? Barrylb 14:54, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * What kind of definition is it? The style and ingredients? I can do that. --Terence Ong Talk 04:31, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes please, and if possible something about the history and who eats them. Barrylb 10:29, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Argh! I just ate one today; I would have taken a picture of it for you. Mine had rice coated with sesame seeds (I think!), then seaweed, then tuna, pepper and cucumber.  K ilo-Lima|(talk) 15:40, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, California Roll is usally constructed as an inside-out maki, with (moving inwards) sesame seeds, rice, and nori forming the outer layers. Inside, more rice, then a variety of fillings. In my part of New England near Boston, we commonly see avocado, crab-flavored-surimi, cucumber, and very-thinly-sliced celery, but I think it varies a lot. I think I've also seen cream cheese included in an alleged California roll.


 * Atlant 15:49, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

In all of my dealings with sushi in Connecticut, a California Roll has always been inside-out with nori, surimi, avocado, and cucumber. A "deluxe California Roll" has roe on the outside. A Cali Roll with shrimp has cooked shrimp included in the filling in place of surimi. I'm sure there are many variations throughout the country. An inside out maki with cream cheese, smoked salmon, and avocado is called a "Philadelphia Roll". MFuture 22:20, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Categories
I changed the category from "Japanese terms" to "Japanese cuisine" as the latter is the more relevant one; most articles on Japanese cuisine are also Japanese terms, and "Japanese cuisine" is more specific and meaningful. Peter 21:47, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

HISTORY OF SUSHI!!!
There's no history of sushi, I know sushi gives me a stomache and it looks nice, but there is no timeline, no history, no nothing about how sushi came about. That kind of seems more important than everyone talking about what their favorite sushi is. PEACE--M4bwav 19:45, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Why don't you research it and write a section on the history? —Keenan Pepper 03:54, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I really don't care about Sushi that much, but the article is woefully imcomplete without a sushi history. Seems a shame to have such a beautiful article without real substance.--M4bwav 17:31, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, haha! Did you not see this? —Keenan Pepper 18:01, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Lol, uh no.--M4bwav 18:17, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


 * http://gojapan.about.com/cs/sushilinks1/a/sushi1.htm, http://www.asianartmall.com/originsofsushi.htm, http://homepage3.nifty.com/maryy/eng/sushi_history.htm, http://sushi-master.com/usa/whatis/history.html, http://www.sushiden.net/sushi101.php?table=origin; They all say the same thing in terms of the history of sushi. -- Anonymous 23:02, 08 June 2007 (UTC)

Eel?
Eel is a seemingly common sushi ingredient here in North Carolina, and I would imagine Japan also, but there is no mention of this in the article. I may be mistaken, so I'll leave it to someone who knows better...


 * Eel is commonly referred to as "unagi" (freshwater eel) or "anago" (saltwater eel). At least in Seattle, unagi is much more common than anago. Both are usually cooked. A thick, sweet soy sauce is often used, and wasabi is not commonly added. It is served as nigiri or in a maki (sometimes just eel, sometimes topped with avocado, sometimes as what is called a Las Vegas roll). --Haruo 06:52, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * New England Sushi bars serve freshwater eel in this same way: cooked and sauced sweet.
 * Atlant 11:32, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Same in East Asia. -- G.S.K.Lee 13:52, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Most sushiya in Japan will have anago on the menu whereas most sushiya in North America will have unagi. I'm guessing this is due to the fact that unagi is easier and cheaper to farm raise.  The "thick, sweet soy sauce" used on eel and other cooked sushi neta is called "nitsume" and is made by boiling down anago, mirin, shoyu, and sugar.  Traditionally, unagi and ume are not supposed to be served in the same meal.  I've never heard of a reason for this other than it's supposedly bad for digestion.--Umetaro 00:44, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Salmon skin rolls
I added this just as a quick merge per the AfD: Articles for deletion/Salmon skin rolls. Guess I should have pointed this out in the edit summary. --W.marsh 23:13, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Yummmm... sushi
I like sushi but I only had sushi once.It was a ball of sticky rice wrapped in black seaweed.-- Cute 1 4 u 18:43, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * That wasn't sushi, that was probably either omusubi or onigiri. --Umetaro 19:43, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Tiny red balls
Not really article-related, but I couldn't find the answer elsewhere and figured this would be the best place to ask: The last time I had sushi, some of it had tiny red balls on the rice (it was Uramaki, as far as I can recall). I didn't really put any though to it at the time, but looking back, with the knowledge about sushi I've since gained, I'm thinking that they were salmon roe. Am I right? (If it makes a difference, it was grilled tuna "on top" of cucumber uramaki). –Dvandersluis 20:08, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Tiny red (or orange) balls (~1 or 2mm) are Flying Fish Roe. Much bigger orange balls (maybe 6 mm?) are Salmon Roe.


 * Atlant 00:11, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The Japanese name for that is "tobiko." Flying fish is "tobiuo" and the "ko" is diminutive.
 * --Umetaro 00:45, 3 August 2006 (UTC)--


 * The tiny ones are tobiko, the larger (6mm) ones are masago.
 * Amdballerina 01:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Minor changes
I made some changes to the format under "hosomaki" and added some gunkanmaki info. Also edited the gimbap, kappamaki, and tekkamaki entries. I may or may not have been logged in when making those changes. --Umetaro 02:03, 22 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Why was this text reverted? Besides it being a derivative, does gimbap not resemble makizushi enough to be included?  I cited a reliable source (i.e. Dr Andrei Lankov).  http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sushi&diff=70759231&oldid=70707263


 * "Another Japanese dish which became a major hit in Korea is the seaweed roll known here as ‘kimpap’. Most Koreans think now that ‘kimpap’ is a traditional Korean dish, and only few are aware that these rolls were borrowed from Japan about a hundred years ago."


 * If it's the source you're doubting... "Dr Andrei Lankov is a lecturer in the faculty of Asian Studies, China and Korea Center, the Australian National University. He graduated from Leningrad State University with a PhD in Far Eastern history and China, with emphasis on Korea, and his thesis focused on factionalism in the Yi Dynasty. He has published books and articles on Korea and North Asia. He is currently on leave, teaching at the Kookmin University, Seoul."


 * I will revert the reversion if there are no counterarguments. Umetaro 01:33, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Zushi vs. "sushi"
As I understand it the original Japanese term from which the English usage "sushi" is derived is "zushi" (meaning vinegared rice). Please correct my edits of I am wrong. hajhouse 03:08, 2 September 2006 (UTC)


 * As much as I know, sushi is the original and zushi is the derivative and I never heard sushi used be called zushi. This kind of unvoiced to voiced consonant transition known as rendaku (連濁) frequently occurs in Japanese. For example, te (手, hand) + kami (紙, paper) = tegami (手紙, letter), kusa (草, grass) + hana (花, flower) = kusabana (草花). In addition, zushi usually means a small shrine (厨子) or a city in Kanagawa prefecture (逗子).--Jjok 21:37, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

In the Japanese language anytime the word sushi (and most words that start with an s) follows a word where the last letter is a vowel the letter s is changed to a z. so it becomes "Maki-zushi" The I in maki causing the s to change to a z Ross A. Christensen 207.20.178.1 17:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Ingredients, sushi rice?
In the ingredients section, there's this comment: Sushi is made with white, short-grained, Japanese rice ... It is cooled to body temperature before being used. Is "body temperature" correct? It seems odd that the rice would be cooled to 37C rather than the ambient room temperature. Eggytoast 18:53, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that someone changed this to room temperature, but (ideally) anyway, it is, indeed, supposed to be cooled to body temperature. A saying about sushi in Japan is "ネタは冷たく、シャリは人肌. " meaning "The topping is cold, the rice is the temperature of the skin." Orinthe 04:25, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Safety of Sushi?
I actually came here looking for health and safety information. My problem: I'm an addict. Sushi is available as "fast food" near where I work. But can I eat it three times a week and still not worry about mercury poisoning? I'm figuring I can. Surely, it's better than other types of fast food. A Harvard nutritionist has told me that the benefits of eating the low cal (no mayo, etc.) high protein forms of sushi FAR outweigh any potential dangers. And what IS the danger of food borne illness with raw seafood? I never hear of people getting sick from it, but I get a lot of warnings from co-workers when they see me eating it.

If anyone knows more about this, could they let me know or make an addition to this article. Thanks!

198.180.131.16 15:35, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It's an interesting question, but you will probably be more noticed if you posted this on the Science Reference Desk. Try to word you question so that you are not seeking medical advice, but for advice on Sushi consumtion. Also tell them that the Sushi article was no help. also, we are not allowed to post email addresses. --Russoc4 15:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I ate sushi several times a day and week in Japan and doesn't have any problems. Maybe I have some parasites I am not aware of... However it doesn't seem to be much of a danger. I don't trust sushi outside of Japan both for health issues as Japanese restaurants serves it in the same day it is caught but also because I never liked the taste of any foreign-sushi. Lord Metroid 10:06, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I researched this quite a bit when writing my book and I do remember (although I don't remember where I saw it) that there was a study done on sushi eaters in San Francisco that found evidence of mercury poisoning/toxicity with symptoms of hand tremors, loss of dexterity, and forgetfulness in people who ate sushi five or more times a week (must be a nice life). Tuna being a commonly eaten sushi with most cases. There are many sushi that are low in mercury and so if you don't eat apex predators everytime you go out you shouldn't have any problem. The study that I saw was focusing on the tuna eaters. Mercury poisoning/toxicity takes time to build up so going on a sushi binge for a week or two shouldn't be a worry either. The largest hazards of sushi would be hepatitis, vibro vulnificus, and fecal coliforms and most of those are caused by how (and by whom) the food is handled and not the actual "sushi's fault" I hope that helps. Ross A. Christensen 207.20.178.1 20:49, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Multiple-merge proposal
(Philadelphia roll, B.C. roll, dynamite roll, spider roll, Funazushi, and Kappamaki)

Reason: I don't think these articles can be expanded beyond stub-level, so they might as well be merged with this one. It would deter the creation of even more possibly-forever-stub articles on sushi, ex: Alaska roll. Carson 04:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Parasites in raw fish
Someone who is expert on the subject of parasites should add a truthful paragraph about it. What I read is that it is a huge problem that is being ignored. And what about wasabi, ginger, and onions? Isn't part of the reason for their inclusion in the cuisine of raw fish supposedly to kill parasites? Do they work at all? I hear that some people in Japan go to a hospital for a week to get rid of fish parasites. The sashimi page at least mentions real concerns, at least as of today. Dave Yost 04:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Chemically, I don't know if there's a substance in those spices that acts as an.. anti-parasitic agent(?), but I would venture a guess that there's definitely a reason why the chosen spices are so powerful, rather than mild or sweet. So yes, I can't confirm it but I believe it's true. Darkwhistle 16:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I have found that most of this article is anecdotal and half correct at best. Although I don't know much about editting the wikipedia pages I would happily write something that someone could post. I am the author of "Sushi A to Z, the ultimate guide" so I can go as in-depth as you would wish. Ross A. Christensen207.20.178.1 17:51, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Response: I'm far from an expert on herbal medicine or Japanese culture, but this seems to me like typical folklore. Remember we're dealing with parasites (though many sashimi chefs are trained to detect the majority of them) *and* bacteria in this issue. The inclusion of bold, almost painful spices seems to follow a simple line of logic; namely, "If it hurts us, it hurts them too." I would be surprised to find out wasabi, western horseradish or ginger had any proven antibiotic capacity.

Susi and szusi
I took the liberty of deleting both susi and szusi, which used to be redirects here. For susi, other than being Finnish for "wolf", it only had incoming links about Biblical articles. As a die-hard atheist, I couldn't care less about what "susi" means in Biblical terms, but I do know that Japan is a Buddhist country, and thus there is no way whatsoever it would be related to sushi. As for szusi, there were no incoming links whatsoever, not even unrelated ones. And also, szusi looks like just a Hungarian way of spelling susi. I think I knew a girl named Szusi once. J I P | Talk 20:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Susi is an alternate romanization of すしusing the Kunrei-shiki style taught in Japanese schools--it is more regular in nature than the common Hepburn romanization, but cannot be correctly read by most non-Japanese speakers that are unfamiliar with the Japanese syllabary and romanization styles. As to whether it should link here, well, it IS a valid romanization of the Japanese word for sushi... but most English speakers would probably either know better than to use the unknown-in-English variant.Orinthe 05:02, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciations!!!
Hello, Please provide phonetic pronunciations and consider utilizing some form of audio pronunciation of the words listed in the article. please check out how www.m-w.com pronounces words for you for free! Also, check out how wordreference.com pronounces most words audibly. Thanks! 24.205.92.132 00:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC) That could be very difficult because of how the Japanese language is spoken. For instance the word "Nigiri" if spoken with a true Japanese inflection sounds more like "Ni-gi-dee" Japanese doesn't even have an "F" sound the way that westerners bite thier lip and blow through their teeth, Words like "Fuji" are more accurately pronounced like you are blowing something away from your face and saying "Fuji" at the same time so it would sound more like "Who-jee" When the Japanese language was translated into the western romanization they tried to make it as close to phonetical spelling as they could so when you read something like "Nigiri" just be confident that if you say it just as it's spelled you're about as close to the actual word as you can get without actually developing a Japanese accent. Ross A. Christensen 207.20.178.1 17:20, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

that doesn't make sense..... Nigiri is how japanese people say it.... considering lived with a japanese exchnage student for two weeks and we talked alot about the language .Nigiri is pronunced "Nee Gee Ree" not ni gi dee because JAPANESE DOES HAVE A 'R' sound, for example Coca Cola in japanese is said "koka kora", plus what does F have to do with things? Australian Jezza 05:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the point that Ross was trying to make is that it is hard to add English phoenetic pronunciation notation to words that are Japanese and potentially pronounced with sounds that do not really exist in the English language. He was using the "F" in "Fuji" to make that point.  Also, regarding your comment about Japanese having an "R" sound...that's not technically correct.  What we romanize as an "R" is, linguistically speaking, a combination sound somewhere between an "R", an "L", and a "D." -Sarfa 21:18, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

actully my japanese friend said himself... so i would think he would know.... considering it is his first language. also japanese does have an f like ours.... the way he says it it isn't as strong as our f but it is still and F, okay i am going off subject so all i am trying to say is.. it is NI GI RI... i even asked him personallyAustralian Jezza 11:58, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Sarfa is correct in what he/we are trying to explain. The Japanese "F" isn't the same as the western "F" you even admitted it yourself by saying that it is softer than the western "F" The Japanese language has many nuances that can't be translated onto/into romanji/western tongues. I'm told I speak with a Tokyo accent. Of course your friend will say its "NI GI RI" as I originally said the Japanese was romanized "as close to phonetical" because you can't spell the nuances. Remember in Japanese inflection can change the entire meaning of a phrase. I just don't think you understand what is being explained because you are agreeing and disagreeing the very point. Ross A. Christensen207.20.178.1 18:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

First few paragraphs
It says that most people when they hear sushi think of raw fish, but when i say sushi to my friends and other people they auto matically think of the seaweed rolls! lol i don't think the statement is correct in the article.Australian Jezza 06:00, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you are basically correct. Outside of Japan, the most popular sushi are rolls. Even in Japan, completely raw stuffs were rare in Edomae-style sushi. They used cooked or vinegared (such as shime-samba) or soy-sourced (such as duke tuna) fish before refrigerators became common in Japan. Outside rolls are also very very popular in Japan, however, it is also true that sushi commonly means nigiri in Japan.
 * I think many editors here are sushi-fundamentalists who think original Japanese style should be first and love them. However, since rolls are so popular and standard outside Japan and California roll became popular in Japan (despite the limited availability of avocado in Japan), it is interesting to edit in that sense. Let's try! Jjok 04:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

i agree because they first time i showed it to my friends (and i am fourteen and so are most of my friends lol) they were like... no... thats stupid because we don't... so i was wondering how to re phrase it or whether we should just delete it because.. i don't think anyone really thinks that anymoreAustralian Jezza 00:11, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

It is somewhat accurate, I still have a lot of friends who refuse to eat sushi because they don't want to eat raw fish. Silly, yes, but unfortunately true. Amdballerina 01:47, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Pictures
i think there should be more sushi pictues from other cuntries other than japan... because most of the varities that are shown there, aren't actually sold in some countries, e.g. australia, new zealand. there should some from canada, some from japan, some from australia so then it can be seen how sushi is made or presented in different countres from is original country... just a thoughtAustralian Jezza 00:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Korean?
chobap(초밥) (meaning sour rice) is the corresponding word for sushi in Korean, but the text reads like there's no such word. I do not know anything about the history of the dish so I did not edit. Anybody knows the origin of the word? And the rolls are called gimbap(김밥) (meaning nori rice) in Korean. 128.227.87.52 20:37, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * My recommendation is create an article about chobap and explain what it that, how it is eaten, and the history and the culture. Gimbap is well-known Korean roll which does not use rice vinegar much and instead sesame oil is added that is merely used in Japanese rolls. Jjok 04:44, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Onigiri
I deleted the Onigiri part. Onigiri is nothing to do with Sushi. And there's already an article Onigiri. In jp.Wiki, 寿司/Sushi and おにぎり/Onigiri are totally different two articles. --Oda Mari 15:36, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Sushi Economy and Globalization

 * Sushi Economy and Globalization is knowledge, isn't it? --GreensMEN 01:50, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * This external link does not comply to WP:EL. External links should provide additional information to the article, not advertisements to related books.-- Hús  ö  nd  02:08, 11 June 2007 (UTC)