Talk:Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono

earlier comments
Good article, but do we really need this last paragraph: "You have to remember that 60% of the population only graduated from elementary school, so they don't investigate candidates too closely," commentator Denny Ja said during the campaign. "When we ask people who is most competent to run the economy and security, people put SBY first. Whatever the truth, that's the perception and perception matters." It seems to me just a condescending assertion that poor people can't handle democracy. Certainly there are also plenty of elections in Western countries where real policy differences are small and things like charisma and funding are what win the day. Everyking 09:22, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It is the opinion of an Indonesian political commentator. I neither endorse nor reject it. It can be accepted or rejected by readers. Other opinions can be added if editors wish to do so. Adam 10:07, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Of course it is just an opinion, but it colors the article. Oh well, I suppose you think we need it after all. Everyking 14:40, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

---

We have to make correction on this part: "In 1975 Yudhoyono took part in the Indonesian annexation of East Timor." I have his biography in my lap now, and it shows that Yudhoyono started to be assigned to East Timor on 1976-77, which is after the annexation process. Any comment or objection? Cay 23:06, 28 April 2005

Feel free. Adam 00:02, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You can revert if you want, but I redirected the nonexistent link "United Nations Peacekeeping Force" to the article on UN peacekeeping NorseOdin 06:33, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Omissions
I find Cay's correction interesting, multiple journalist have stated SBY was a officer members of the 1975 invasion, yet no Indonesian official has objected. Anyway, why is there no mention of SBY being the Chief of Territorial Affairs during the revenge destruction of East Timor and the years of intimidation of those chased across into West Timor? Why is there no mention of SBY being Megawati's security minister who organized and conducted the three year military operation burning hospitals and schools etc. against Aceh for asking for independence?211.30.84.166 15:19, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Language
Although there is good content in the article, the language used seems somewhat laborious. Some forms of expression follow what would be a more Indonesian style of structure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yourfather (talk • contribs)

Possibly a redraft using the original content - it just seems to labour sometimes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yourfather (talk • contribs)

disasters
This section is horribly written, badly sourced, and unclear in meaning.

"Recent research and studies relate the disasters which happened in his presidential era with the political stability of Indonesia. Nonetheless, the president is also involved. One study shows that the possibility of Yudhoyono being re-elected in 2009 is narrow if the pattern of the disasters continues."

WTF? Presidents don't cause natural disasters. What is this gibberish doing in an encyclopedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.76.38.165 (talk) 00:18, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

POV?
I question the POV of the following passage... "(and, it was said, mental) incapacity"

nowhere in the citation provided was this fact ever mentioned. I am deleting this passage as it does not have correct citation. If someone could correcly citate the fact above, please revert my edit. Thanks

--Vircabutar 06:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

What is the purpose of this revert
What is the purpose of this wholesale revert? It cancelled a lot of improvements. however, because other editors worked based on that version since then, reverting it will cause many improvements lost. Peace. --Nielswik(talk) 07:32, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Road to presidency section
I think that section is written in unencyclopedic manner, and violates wikipedia policy such as WP:NOR, WP:NPOV. Peace. --Nielswik(talk) 07:57, 18 January 2007 (UTC) examples: That section also lacks of references. Peace. --Nielswik(talk) 08:01, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Unlike most other presidential candidates, Yudhoyono put forward broad policies for the future of Indonesia. ... 
 * Yudhoyono's reputation for integrity, strong personality appeal, and excellent communication skills made him the front-runner throughout the election campaign, ...
 * The turning point came on 1st March 2004, 

I agree with you. Many parts of this article is written in a biased manner --Vircabutar 09:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Question about Bambang
Bambang was one of the middle names given to me by my paternal grandfather (who died when I was five). I'm told that the name either means "hero" or refers in some way to the quality of heroism, in keeping with many Javanese names having to do with character traits. I was looking for confirmation about the meaning of the name...? RahadyanS 17:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Discussion from article page
Where in the world parent named their child 'Someone with bad character'? I'm Indonesian, but I'm not SBY supporter. But this srticle tickle my logic and sense. Obviously his name mean 'well behaved'. Well i dont know with you westerner, but we easterner always names our child with good names. And also can you differentiate 's' in Susilo with 'sh' in Sushil. That 2 different letter you know? >:)
 * quote removed from article and placed here by docboat 02:45, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Proposal: move history of SBY's presidency to its own page
Perhaps SBY's presidency should have its own page. "Presidency of Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono", or something. Seems awkward to pack it into a biography, since a presidentical era is really much more than a story about one person's life. Smilo Don (talk) 08:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This is in theory quite sensible. There may be other ways of approaching it too though. It's quite coincidental as in the last week or so, I've been quite involved in the split from John Howard into the Howard Government, which appears to be exactly the same idea as here. Just stick to the notable facts (and all the notable facts, rather than a favourite selection), keep it verified (no more extras), and show extreme caution with the opinion (even if it is someone as esteemed as Vickers).
 * This should go to the project page too. Ie, direct people to the discussion here. --Merbabu (talk) 08:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * My thought was too basically cut/paste the Presidency from the SBY page and make a new page with it. I wasn't planning on adds or edits at this point.  So the question on the table is more about the appropriateness of the move.  But I gotta run. Maybe others can chime in.Smilo Don (talk) 08:52, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Big cut 'n' paste of Presidency to Post-Suharto Era
Please note that I've effected a huge cut-n-paste from here to the Post-Suharto Era. The selection was overly large and detailed. Some of it should come back here.Smilo Don (talk) 09:25, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It would have been far more appropriate to have been a lot more consultative and collaborative. No-one has a clue what you've done.--Merbabu (talk) 12:09, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Religion removed
The information regarding the president's religious belief are unecessary and irrelevant, as it is a private and individual matter of the president, therefore it does not have any relation whatsoever to his job and responsibility as a president. (unsigned item)

Reverted - in Indonesia public and political life assumes open identification of affiliation with a religious identity SatuSuro 07:01, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Open identification..., for popularity to the muslim majority I assume? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fixedfixer (talk • contribs) 19:48, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Please note this conversation has been taken to Hixedfixer's talk page as it has no relevance to this article SatuSuro 23:51, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Family Background
Sorry, no time to fix this, but SBY's father's name is wrong. Gatot Koco is a famous figure in the wayang puppet stories. The text currently reads:

Born in Pacitan, East Java, on September 9, 1949, to a lower-middle class family and is the son of Gatot Koco

The Indonesian version includes what should be the correct father's name, but a double check with the Dutch version should be confirmation enough.114.181.193.68 (talk) 17:02, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Done. Thanks for pointing it out. Davidelit (talk) 02:13, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Suggestions for Improvement
The overall tone is a little on the flattering/polished side, but that's to be expected for a sitting president who is popular. It would be good to add *factual* info about his alleged roles in East Timor and Aceh.

Early Life: We read "his father's own career" as influencing his decision to join ABRI, but no mention is made of his father's occupation. Readers should not be required to guess that his father was a soldier.

Megawati Presidency: Sounds like she is being blamed for atrocities of martial law in Aceh. Contrast this with the way that Wiranto is blamed for East Timor on his WP page -- the general is responsible, not the civilian.

The Democratic Party: Reasons for choosing the name Democrat should be mentioned. This is at least as important as the info on SBY's birthday.

Cabinet: Add names of the four women appointed by SBY, or at least indicate their portfolios to show that they were significant (rather than minor posts given to women as tokenism).

Economy: Extremely sketchy. What about the removal of subsidies? Rates of inflation in sembako? Poverty rates?

NO mention is made of the anti-corruption reputation that is a big part of his campaign ads. The word only appears in reference to his manifesto/book under Road to Presidency, and again in reference to Suharto's wealth. Martindo (talk) 01:19, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Balance of Power
I renamed the heading that had been "Alleged Rivalry with Kalla". There is a factual issue of balance of power, which can be addressed directly without quibbling regarding "alleged" or real rivalry (it's real now that they are running against each other).

There is an awkward and somewhat naive use of "weak" in this section to describe the process by which Kalla became head of Golkar. It is preferable for an encyclopedia to give specific details rather than rely on general labels when describing people.

More can be said under this heading than simply discussing (and denying, possibly from POV bias) rumors about rivalry. For example, did Kalla have more free rein than previous VPs in regard to the economy or other aspects of administration?

Martindo (talk) 05:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Regarding (now ex-)VP Kalla's control of economy, see this blog from last May, which voices a theory told to me by an Indonesian friend. Are blogs legitimate references for WP articles? http://blog-indonesia.com/blog-archive-10470-66.html Martindo (talk) 00:14, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Publications by SBY...
A list of publications by SBY has been added to the page. is this appropriate? If so, how should they be presented. thoughts? thanks --Merbabu (talk) 08:29, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that it's appropriate to mention the books he's written, but there's no need for publishing details - this should be a short para worth of prose. Nick-D (talk) 08:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I prefer the publishing details - as they are in Indonesian, its good to see that they are verifiable - I have seen too many possible issues with WP:V come up on short cites - I think it is fine as it is - it sits in the article well imho SatuSuro 08:49, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Congrat!
Congratulations Mr. Bambang Yudhoyono! — Mikhailov Kusserow (talk) 08:44, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Military career
Wasn't he stationed in Timor-Leste during 1998/1999? The current article seems to stop talking about his military career in 1997. And could the last two paragraphs talking about Suharto and political issues, be moved to the political career section? 122.106.253.39 (talk) 01:44, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Century Bank Controversy
I was just wondering why there is no mention of the Century Bank controversy. He has become pretty controversial recently because of that, and I heard that there were some who asked him to step down and/or tried to impeach him. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:14, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

pronunciation
The alleged Indonesian transcription clearly wasn't; I'm guessing it was meant to be Javanese, and am fixing it up accordingly. — kwami (talk) 02:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

KODAM Acronym ?
THe wor or term ' KODAM ' is used twice but its' meaning is not given. Seems to be a military 'command' or location ie. general Staff or something similar. Can anyone help? - 220.101 talk\Contribs 13:56, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * komando daerah militer translate that, sorry i don't have enough time since my college taking my time Ald™ ¬_¬™

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