Talk:Swati tribe/Archive 1

Semi-protected edit request on 17 September 2017
I want to elaborate the whole history of the tribe and origins that have been deleted from here. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:14, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Sparkling Pessimist   Scream at me!  18:17, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Swati, Swathi, Suwadi or Swatiyaan is a tribe who live in the Districts of Mansehra, Battagram, Swat, Dir, Malakand and Peshawar districts of Khyber Pukhtunkhawa Province of Pakistan. Caroe O. The Pathans 550 B.C.- A.D. 1957 Oxford University Press ISBN 978-0-19-577221-0.

Move/edit page name
Greetings. Seems this article is wrongly labeled. The Swatis are a tribe resident in Hazara region and other parts of Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa province of Pakistan as well as some in India and Afghanistan but they are not Pashtuns. Most reliable sources list them as an indigenous tribe, or people allied to the Pashtuns/Pathans. It might be better to move this to a new page or maybe edit and correct the page name? Any useful suggestions by senior experienced editors? Regards AsadUK200 (talk) 17:00, 12 September 2017 (UTC)AsadUK200

Please leave it one who knows the tribe and let me edit it. Btw they are tajiks like many other others got pashtunized like Shilamnis Bangashes, Sheranis, Mishwanis, Marwats, Niazi, Lodhi, Suris so better omit them all from list of tribes. Azmarai76

AsadUK200 : Dont you think you are too much interested on Page about Swatis. Azmarai76
 * User:Azmarai76, I am interested in many topics relating to Pakistan and India and tribes and histories. Is that a problem fro you? No one own's any pages here at Wikipedia but we can make proper and serious edits so long as they are reliably sourced and acceptable by Wiki standards. Hmm, What proof is there that Swatis are Tajiks? I dont see any reliable sources in this regard. Also, most of the tribes you mention above eg Bangash, Shiranis, Marwats, Niazis, Lodhis, Suris etc are accepted by the Pashtuns as proper Pashtun clans and also similarly categorized by various scholars and historians . While the Mashwanis are supposed to be of mixed Syed and Pashtun origins. I think that it would be betteidto ing just change the labeling of the title here and start off this article again in new premises . I would also strongly suggest this course to you, if you have any useful edits to make, rather than making negative edits to various pages on Wikipedia. Do , please, consider this idea soberly. RegardsAsadUK200 (talk) 12:13, 27 September 2017 (UTC)AsadUK200

Greetings:: Thats why I say leave it to ones who know who they are historically and genetically, I agree its been labeled wrong but as far as Tajik thing is concerned they are Tajiks mentioned even by their rivals in Tawareekh e Hafiz Rehmat Khani and other scripts as Tazkira tul Abrar wa Ashrar by Akhun Darweza. They are Tajiks with Y chromosomal DNA lines as Q, JM-172 the only indic line we could trace was H from Deshan section of the tribe in a Khel of Bangash living in Rasheeda village in Oghi but I dont say 250 samples are too much but then Dental Morphology was also used to ascertain what genetic stock they belong to mostly. As far as negative editing is concerned I told you that those pages were being used by some for other inappropriate motives and in that case its also responsibility of seniors like you to know why is someone doing this.Azmarai76 (talk) 21:05, 1 November 2017 (UTC)Regards Azmarai76

You make me laugh, you claim to live amongst them and missed all the Moghul chronicles on Swatis.... I given you Y chromosomal DNA groups for the project carried out by National Geographic.

Swatis Y chromosomal lines are R1a1, JM 172, Q ... Isn't that much to your surprise. I understand what must have happened. Keep enjoying AsadUK200 Azmarai76 (talk) 02:29, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

But at the same time do Yoga exercises to remain calm .... do see pages of An account of Kingdom of Cabul and see Gabari Dari spoken in times of Babur in modern day Afghanistan, the book has fanciful spellings Gabri has been spelt as Guburee. I live around here at Mansehra why dont we sit together and I may also get an opportunity to learn from you about Swatis. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 02:35, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Languages
The language of Swatis was Dari and also a variant of the same language known as Gaberi while they were living in Swat, however,  they now speak Pashto and Hindko instead.
 * I have never heard of any Gaberi language as a 'variant' of 'Dari'. Again, Raverty is not a very reliable source in this regard, not being a linguistic expert like Dr WG Leitner and others at that time. He was an army officer and occasional traveler and his works are very casual in content. I dont know about the other source listed here, without any further proper elucidation- please give full details and citations from this book. AsadUK200 (talk) 12:17, 27 September 2017 (UTC)AsadUK200

I fail to understand these British Army Officers are very much acceptable to you while dealing with other pages but for certain pages they arent reliable ??? Strange .... However, I am sending you what you need Swatis have four divisions namely Gabri Mitravi Mamiali and Toor all realted but have kept these terms alive till now even reflected in first resettlement in 1870s.

1.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrian_Dari_language#cite_note-OWP_2005_149-5 This is nothing else but Wikipedia page I hope you atleast will see things how they are. Regards Azmarai76 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Azmarai76 (talk • contribs) 21:21, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

2.	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrian_Dari_language

I didn't get you remark here and I see the reason anyways, better divert attention to pages instead of getting into all this boys will fix this one and one on Tanolies too. Keep enjoying editing other pages. Regadrs.

Did you read Gabri ??? Dari ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 03:10, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

History
The arrival of the tribe in Swat is recorded in Ghori times along-with the conquest of that area by their leader Sultan Pakhal, belonging to the family of Sultans of Peech in Kunar present day Afghanistan also commonly known as Jahangeerian Sultans.

This page need to protected please, from Wikipedia editors as AsadUK200. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:58, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Update for reference please
I have done some further online and library research about the Swati tribe and I find that there are two main types of (comparatively) 'reliable' material available about the Swati tribe i.e. (1) old historical and administrative notes and material from British colonial times circa 1840s to 1940s and (2) more recent scholarly research in Pakistan, less voluminous, dating to circa 1970s and 1980s. The older sources seem to mostly believe that the Swatis are a tribe that, although not properly or fully Pashtuns/Pakhtuns, are or were closely 'allied' to them although they had some admixture of Pashtun and local/indigenous blood. The later research seems to opine that apart from Pashtun and indigenous/local blood, some considerable genetic input of other Central Asian tribes/peoples might have also gone into the Swati make-up. Like a number of other Pakistani and Indian tribes, I believe that more detailed DNA studies need to be done on the Swatis, too, to determine their origins properly. Maybe such a study can be facilitated by Wikipedia? AsadUK200 (talk) 20:55, 29 November 2018 (UTC)AsadUK200

I will again repeat for your convenience Swatis though not Afghans but due to their long time affinities with them speak their language and have adopted their culture and are numbered amongst them.

In the very same colonial times work that was recorded by Sardar Hayat Bagiyal of Wah under Hayat e Afghan happens to be copy of Alphinstone's book An Account of Kingdom of Cabul where both author record Swatis are ' unrelated to Hindkis' so you need to come out of Sardar Hayat work. Azmarai76 (talk) 02:44, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Dehqan / Deggan both are interchangeable and Swatis would speak Gabri a variant of Kermani and Dari when the tribe was located at Swat. Those living in Papin Nangrahar still speak Dari alongwith Pushto but Dari is their first language. I dont type and waste time here as I know this place has been screwed up people having no serious things to do, but I dont want to leave your query unanswered, nothing more nothing less. Regards. Azmarai76 (talk) 02:49, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes Khankhel Qureshis can be of the origin you want all Swatis to be ... I wish I could tell you more but for the sake of answering a query I guess I have done much. This page won't do any good or harm Swatis in any form so no issues bro. Thanks and Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 02:54, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

The DNA Y chromosomal lines found in Swatis are R1, JM2, and Q. Please do see Talokars they have also been tested as H. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:09, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

I am ready to pay for your DNA test from my own pocket leave Swatis, they have well preserved Pedigree made by Akhun Sallak and known to all. Genetic research has also been made. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 14:28, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Request to lock the page.
Please avoid vandalism by a frequent visitor to this page by locking. I have given the details and online links in the Further Readings section for easy access. I don't beling to this tribe nor am related in any sense but a few editors are childish activities here without even knowing they can even be confornted at Kripling Society and exposed. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 11:53, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Please avoid vandalism by a frequent visitor to this page by locking. I have given the details and online links in the Further Readings section for easy access. I don't beling to this tribe nor am related in any sense but a few editors are childish activities here without even knowing they can even be confornted at Kripling Society and exposed. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 11:53, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose to merge Jahangiri into Swati (Pashtun tribe). I think that the content in that article can easily be explained in the context of this one. Kindly discuss thanks. AsadUK200 (talk) 19:08, 13 September 2019 (UTC)AsadUK200
 * Support merge. Two stubby articles will become one less stubby one. Narky Blert (talk) 16:10, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Disagree Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 08:13, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Jahangiris through part of Swatis always classify themselves separately as Hindko speaking pathans to the reason best known to them. The same problem is there with their neighboring tribe of Tanolies also. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 02:23, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Citations have been added
I have added reliable citations to the body and have also given online verifiable books in English under Further Readings Section. Anyone, who would now vandalize this page would be just trying to settle his bad experience scores from his childhood. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 20:49, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

I have corrected the links again. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 03:36, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Done thanks for pointation. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:30, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Corrected Azmarai76 (talk) 06:40, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Full Protection against edits on origin
This community isn't Afghan in origin while some amateur historians want to damage the info on this page. I guess they do have inferiority complex of becoming fake Afghans. This page needs to be fully protected against such users as Haider khan 10 and Sk Swati. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 00:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

you are right Mr Azmarai Abdali, this tribe is not Afghan but Pahstuns! We will continue to make proper changes with some proper sources and hope you won't interfere !! Take care. Haider khan10 (talk) 22:59, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Azmarai76 (talk) 04:31, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Jack Frost (talk) 12:40, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2020
The tribe is Pashtun and I would like to change the formatting of the page to be more standardized. Reference for the tribe being Pashtun can be found written in the image in this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Old_Pathan_1921.JPG. The provided image is taken from page 436 of the text "Through the Heart of Hindustan by Maynard Owen Williams, The National Geographic Magazine, Nov 1921" Hamzakswati (talk) 07:25, 7 April 2020 (UTC)


 * ❌. It's not clear what changes you want to make; please make a precise request. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon &bull; videos) 13:14, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

The tribe isn't Pashtun rather of Dehqan origins. Azmarai76 (talk) 13:29, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Tribe is neither Pashtun nor Afghan
This tribe is neither Afghan nor Pashtuns but User: bent on changing it's origin. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 10:04, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Pashtun is Pashtun by their language land culture and customs thats all .... no blood line nothing mr azmarai ...when qais baba visited Madina with fourty or more people to accept Islam then where rest of the tribes people had gone, were they not pashtuns ... according to your folklores qais baba had four sons, one of them was an adopted one !!! Pukhto izda ka nu bya ba khabary kaum. Regards Haider khan10 (talk) 10:07, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Are you abdali or something else .... i m pashtun not afghan but without pashto what are you nobody knows !!! Haider khan10 (talk) 10:09, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Bro... I don't try to falsify my bloodline no matter which language  I speak. Even jogis in Kabul speak Pashto as their first language should we now take them as our own. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 10:20, 10 August 2020 (UTC) sorry even jogis are far better than you non pashtunic, whereas they never claimed to be pashtun but speak pashto mr azmarai sab Regards Haider khan10 (talk) 10:24, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Gujjars have their own mother language called Gojri and othere have their mother language and what do you mean to mention name Muhammadi here, don't use it ... azmarai !!!! Regards Haider khan10 (talk) 09:58, 10 August 2020 (UTC) whereas they never claimed themselves as Pashtuns but far better than people like you who claimed to be pashtun but cant speak a single world of pashto but masters in english now smile ... Haider khan10 (talk) 10:20, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

what a foolish claim that you are pashtun, even you don't know a single word of my great language azmarai ........ Regards Haider khan10 (talk) 10:00, 10 August 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs)

Are you feeling well my friend, Afghan and Pashtuns even Turks and Tajiks are racial groups and not linguistic. In your case Swatis have not been recorded as Pashtuns or Afghans till 1952 by Olaf Careo in his book The Pathans. What happened within thirty years that made you Pashtuns Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 10:26, 10 August 2020 (UTC) Your olaf caroe was a non pashtun, he was just a servant of british government and it would be great mistake you follow him as your history teller .... mr first learn pashto language and then talk to a pashtun, it's all about land language customs traditions etc mr azmarai non pashtun Haider khan10 (talk) 10:38, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

ka ra pukhto izda krla nu za ba ta lag pashtun wogram ... Regards Haider khan10 (talk) 10:39, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

That's the problem here do you know I am a Pashtun nationalist myself none in the core group of nationalist has ever taken Swatis as Pashtuns or Afghans just politicians do for votes but we can't get out of the academic framework of the subject. Sorry brother.... Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 10:42, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Just base you statement on references I promise I will improve this article if you give me a source where they have been listed as Bettanis. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 10:45, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Onething what is your plan for those people who according to you speak Hindko and from this tribe. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 11:55, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

i had already sent you some references....but i m sorry that you are a pathan not pashtun, i will give you as advice that try to learn some pasho rather than english or any other azmaria....Regards Haider khan10 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 21:36, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Well I'm grateful for your advice Pashto won't take me to heavens which you think will take you. None of these books that you mentioned have recorded you as Pashtun or Afghan. Do you want me to paste the online links to them I have even offered that??? Regards But I am still waiting which Bettani subsection are you from ??? You still have to tell me so I find a source for it. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 08:04, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Protection needed
This page needs to be protected as User:Haider khan10 and other like him want to change the origin of the tribe from Dehqan to Afghan or Pashtuns. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 10:53, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

i think this person so called azmarai has some personal grudges with my tribe SWATI, thats why this man even don't know a single word of Pashto but desired to be pashtun want his own pashtun tribal confederation, nonetheless i had given some references that Swati are in bitani tribal tree but he is continuously editing wrongly !!!! want to thrust his own home made views .... Haider khan10 (talk) 21:32, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Bro I told you my only grudge is with people who has termed Swatis as an Indian race. Telling someone you haven't been recorded anywhere as Pashtun or Afghan isn't bad. No lies on race. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 08:07, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Bro I told you my only grudge is with people who has termed Swatis as an Indian race. Telling someone you haven't been recorded anywhere as Pashtun or Afghan isn't bad. No lies on race. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 08:07, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

References Swati pashtuns
Mentioned An editor has complained about you at User talk:EdJohnston#Complaint about User:Haider khan10. You can respond if you wish. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 18:00, 10 August 2

Swatis are Pashtuns mentioned by majoriy of authors ... i had already mentioned two of them like Khan Roshan Khan and Fazal Mehmood Khan. Thanks, Haider khan10 (talk) 21:49, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis are pashtuns according to authors like Sher Bahadur khan panni "History of Hazara", a book name pashtun tribes of the north west frontier of india prepared by general staff army head quarters india in 1910....if they were not pashtuns then why are they being discussed among pashtun tribes. Thanks Haider khan10 (talk) 22:20, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis are Pashtuns according to Hazara Gazetteer 1907 compiled and edited under punjab govt of india. Thanks Haider khan10 (talk) 22:26, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis are pashtuns a book namely "campaigns on the north west frontier", because all the campaigns are discussed against Pashtun Tribes only, written by capt H.L nevill in 1910 ......Thanks

a book pathan and biloch by edward oliver, Swatis are firmly discussed, if they are not pashtuns then there was no need to be discussed in pashtun name book. Thanks Haider khan10 (talk) 23:24, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis were mentioned as pashtuns by a sikh author mehtab singh in persian book name "tareekh e hazara wa khurd buru singhan wa durranian " written in 1848 or 49. Thanks Haider khan10 (talk) 23:58, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

their main code of references are outsiders who dosn't know much about pashtuns so a book "imprerial gazetteer of north west frontier province" dradted by H A ROSE in 1900 or before if i m not wrong...tells us that pashtun tribes are mainly of iranian origin, but many of their sections are affliated clans of hindki or indigenous decent, others of saiyed arabian few possibly of turkish origin. Thanks Haider khan10 (talk) 23:37, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Now another point, how could one adopted son can take place of a real son, and their offsprings will trace their ancestor to Qais Abdul Rashid Baba? According to folklores, fables, an infant was found and adopted might be of some another race but defenitely not Pashtun ! Great Karalanis are more Pashtunic as compare to other Pashtun tribes, what makes you so confident about to accept Karlanis in that lineal tree ? Kindly don't see these great Pashtun tribes on behalf of your own likings and dislikings. Here is a Pashto proverb " che ta sok na manay - ta ba hum sok na mani " Haider khan10 (talk) 22:45, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Pakhtuns are defined by their language, their common culture, and their common heritage, and in the most orthodox perspective, by their religious beliefs (Islam). Blood to them only matters on the level of Khels (sub-tribes). Beyond Khel, blood don’t matter. Most Pakhtun tribes won’t allow their men or women to marry another Khel of the same tribe. That is where blood truly matters, when it comes to close family, or extended family. After that point, the definition is in a broader perspective (language, culture, heritage, religion). Then it is truly a matter of characteristics. You can be the son of Qais or Kanrani, if you don’t speak Pakhto, it will be problematic for you to marry a Pakhtun. Then you can speak pure Pakhto, but if you are not a Muslim, it will be difficult to marry a Pakhtun. Chances of that happening, are null. Sync2k5 18:31, 24 February 2006 (UTC).....these were the talks when we were involved to improve pashtun related pages 14 years back mr azmarai. Haider khan10 (talk) 23:02, 10 August 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs)

Well we speak and write English today when will you put forth a claim we are Englishmen now. If Pashto is the thing I have told you all authors right upto recent book by Brig. Haroon ur Rasheed Bangash has termed you people as Pashtunized. But you don't seem to like it and think 2020 is the time to link yourselves to Pashtuns by falsification of pedigree table that is enough to tell us your desperation. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 04:40, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Which Bettani subsection are you from??? Please let's go step by step may be this way we can shape up your claim authentic Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 04:42, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

1.History of Hazara by Panni has termed Swatis as probable Ghoris and Ghoris weren't Pashtuns. 2. Hazara Gazetteer and other GGOs available online even has termed you a race of non Pashtun origins. 3. Metab Singhs claim was limited to papers of the Sikh Raj afterwards cancelled by none else but Swatis while again accepting lands resettlement of 1872 by British. 4. Campaigns of north west frontier again says Swatis are non Afghan or non Pushtun race. 5. Dictionary of Pathan Tribes again says Cis Indus Swatis are Dehqans of race driven out of Swat by Akazai section of Yusufzais.

All these sources are a available online so please don't misqoute what they have said. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 05:33, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

azmarai sab now you dont have anything to argue, i have told u abt two books tazkara of roshan khan roshan and swati pakhtun by fazal mehmood khan ... 119.160.116.123 (talk) 09:11, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

I am simply saying which Bettani subsection are Swatis from ??? Please tell me that ??? Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 09:18, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Please do mention when these books were printed??? As earlier people from the very same tribe would change it Yusufzais??? Have you changed it to Bettanis now ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 09:20, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Tazkara by Roshan Khan doesn't mention anything about the subsection this tribe is from can you please. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 09:22, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

For sale of your ease I'm mentioning the subtribe of Bettanis Tattha, Wraspoon and Dhana. Now which one are Swatis from ???? Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 10:02, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

much more from 2006
Once upon a time Many of the writers esp about the origin of the Pashtuns, authors had made delibelrate mistakes while writing history some few centuries back - Atleast they have appeased some authorative people around of that times otherwise they have missed a golden chance to be some golden authors, the great loss of those writtens are, today's writer still taking references from those books, dosn't matter, wether they are acceptable to mind or not, logical or illogical - Because majority of them have wrote lot of fables and took start like "some says" and "Once upon a time".

Caroe in his book of 1958 wrote about the two great tribes, one of them is Assakenois and other Aspasios, both the tribes gave very tough time to Alaxender of Maccedonia. Caroe do believes that, were not of the same origin, he mentions in his book, the Aspasis as Persian tribe and Assakenios as an Indian tribe and drawing a boundry in between Persia and India, somewhere between the kunar and swat rivers, both the tribes were famous as horse men or horse traders, he took this reference from Mahabharata about assakenois ... What I want to explore that he mentions Aspa for a horse from Persian and Pashto for Aspasis and Asva for a horse from sunskrit for Assakenois ... If Asva in sunskrit that's good, wouldn't it be more authentic and significant, if we take "as" of Pashto for Assakenois !

In Caroe's own words, Alaxender was not the first or the last to be made to realize that the real limit of the Iranian region is not the Khaiber pass, or even the River Indus, but a point ancient Taxila where the modern road and railway run through the Margalla pass. Pashtuns still recognize when they pass it that they are leaving or, coming, home.

First he mentions Persian boundary somewhere in between Kunar and Swat rivers and in the same book same chapter on p nos 48 and 49 of Alexander, he explored boudries of the Persia upto Taxila!! Persian Horses and Indian Horses, spread in the same region even residing with in few miles, but of different origin!! Weldone Mr Caroe Olaf !

These were the two related tribes of the same origin because due to their common culture and business of Horses also and, like Ass and Aspa of Pashto. Remember, it was the land and home of the Horses. Why Persian boundary, why not Pashtunkhwa boundry, Pashtun is the race of ancient times, already been mentioned by greek historians as pactivas and it's inhabitants as Paktyans. All the above ancient names clearly shows the ancestors of Pashtuns, whether they are in rigved, osta, mahabharta, sunskrit or greeks, their line is signifying about the people of the same region. Atleast they shall have the same language and culture, and that's what, they shall have adopted through evolution. Haider 19:23, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Still we can see many tribes and clans helped each other of the Bajuar, Swat and across the Indus, Hazara Division, with the adjacent Mountain of Allai, and clans on both the slopes of the Black Mountain, when externel danger threatens. The tribes against the Alexander shall have done the same way. Haider 13:05, 28 February 2006 (UTC) What proof is their that there were any pashtun tribes in the malakand region at the time of alexander, conventional logic says pashtuns originated from the Kandahar region and migrated North, the original inhabitants of swat moved to the hazara belt in response to the spread of the pashtuns. Caroes logic is flawed in places, it is still well researched, and yes when you write something you need to reference it, so I would prefer using a few sources and cite them rather than simply critcise and not cite anything. Zak 18:09, 3 March 2006 (UTC) Do you have any prove, regarding about the mass exodus of the Pashtuns from Qandhar to Kabul, today's NWFP and it's tribal belt, exept those conventional stories? Or any single clue, the tribes against Alexander were not Pashtuns?. "Twarikhe Hafiz Rehmat khani" would be your main source or do you have "Tazkara" of Akhun Derwaiza ... both the authors wrote about the different tribes migration, both of them were almost of the same era but holding different views of the same events, like "Tareekh" says, the King of Kabul was Mirza Ulagh baig and according to "Tazkara" the king was Quli baig ...The assasinated chiefs were 700 in "Tareekh", while elevated in Tazkara upto 900! Now more from "Tazkara", mentions one migration of the Pashtuns from the East to West during the reign of Mehmood Ghaznavi in 11th century including Swat, and the second exodus took place, in the reign of Mirza Baig in 15th and 16th century ! Tawarike Hafiz Rehmat Khani might be a Romantic, lively, older and lengthy book about the events of the Pashtun tribes but from the historic point of view could not take place as an authentic book due to it's conventional aspects. "Maghzani Afghani" mentions migrations of Pashtuns down to Multan even, in the times of Shahabuddin Ghouri in 12th century. These were just few of the sources .. as far as you believe in them, but I don't, because Pashuns were not the people of just a small specific area! Saifi Harvi believe in his "Tareekh Naama" of 8th Hijri, the Pashtuns had moved from the east to ancient Ganghara or Qandhar and up to Hirat, they moved from one fertile land to another. Pahstuns were well scattered before Alexander 1500 BC, as we can explore them in Rigved and Osta etc. ~ Thanks ~ Haider 15:54, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Pukhtun/Afghan tribes did not appear in Peshawar Valley until after 800 AD (Tarikh-e-Farishtah; H.G. Raverty Notes on Afghanistan; Peshawar District Gazetteer 1897-98). Again the swati tribes of hazara openly claim they were the original inhabitants of swat valley..how do you adjust the stories of the Gujjar tribes if the situation was otherwise? --Zak 22:02, 26 March 2006 (UTC) According to Tareekh-e-Farishta of Qasim Farishta, the Afghans were the people who had taken part with Abraha to attack Qaba Sharif, he took these references from a book "Matla-ul-Anwar", he had further mentions that the Afgans infact are Qabti Fironis, when Hazrat Moosa AS had subdued Firon then lot of Qabtis offered Toba of their sins and accepted the religion of Hazarat Moosa AS, but one of the group amongst them did not accept the religion of truth, and became the front line friends of Firon for his claim of God, due to this they had been put into exile, so reached Hindustan and scattered in Koh-e-Suleman. Now will you or anyboby believe it, how one could say himself a proud Pashtun?..did he mentions "Pashtuns" or "Afghans", or does he applied both the terms on the same race "Pashuns"? Great Pashtuns had their heritage to remain Pashtuns thruogh evolutionary period. Kindly take a look what I wrote ahead of your last paragraph esp about the exodus, whether the older migrations were from the east to west or west to east?

Abdul Ghani khan, a Pashto poet and philosopher (late) share the opinion. He considers the Pashtuns as a mixture of many races that came through their areas from central Asia. Suddum (mardan), Khyber (Peshawar) and elum (swat) are the places, which resemble in names those of bani Israel. Mir afzal khan Jadoon is of the opinion that the features as well as the habits of the Pashtuns resemble those of the Jews. Apart from the clans of Karlanr and mati, Jadoons, Tanolis and Swatis are similar to the Jews in their dwelling and clothes. I hope, you would have heard about this. What would you say if we see Pashtuns from the theory of Henry Walter Bellew (1834-92), who had already connected Pashtuns from Rajputs? What were their crendentials for Pashtuns? What would be the case or to adjust Pashtuns if we had to believe in that theory or majortiy of tribes if the situation was otherwise? Pathan, Rohilla, Sulemani, Khurasani, Afghani are the names which we have been awarded already, but dejectedly to find Pashto speaking Pashtuns! They were here just to made distinction among great Pashtun tribes for their own incentives/targets/goals, they knew they couldn't subdue them ever, so let them divide and rule. A pashto proverb "Mula che sa wai hagha kawa - Che sa kai hagha ma kawa". Another one also, "Wai Cha Akhpala - Biya Gila Sala". I hope you must be a Pashtun, not Pathan. ~Thanks~ Haider 18:11, 28 March 2006 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs)

Keep copying and pasting. This is what I am saying check all the books mentioned here they don't call Swati as Pashtun tribe. What should I do lie about all this. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 03:24, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Bro I have tried my level best to argue, and fight a case for these pages but couldn't find a single reference. Please tell me if any of these authors like Bellew or Darweeza has written you guys as Pashtuns. Regards Instead of arguments please give me a reference bro. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:29, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

All I am asking for is a reference to help me out with making your claim authentic but seem to have started an edit war. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 03:31, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

By the way please all these books they have talked about Swatis but Afghans and Pashtuns quoting them here is not helping Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 03:37, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

You have started writing book reviews here friend. Please just show me a sources as all these have termed you non Pashtuns. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 04:21, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Please tell me which Bettani subsection are Swatis from ??? Bettanis have been recorded in Derajat and not Hazara where Swatis live. But if you think they are Bettanis please tell me the subsection. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 04:34, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Onething more bro .. Asekenois ... haven't been mentioned in Mahabaharata .... rather Asekenois were noted and recorded by Herodutus. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 07:10, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

You still think bro.... Pashtuns and Afghans are something special they as ordinary human beings as you... why do Swatis and Tanolies since ages want enlist with them despite the fact half of them must have adopted that speech but that doesn't change their origin. Like I told you Gujjars and Sheikh Mohammadis (a tribe) you know is of indian origin but many of them have adopted Pashto as their first language, however, noone considers them Pashtuns just "pashtunized" the term I had used here also about Swatis and not derogatory but used by all. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 07:38, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Give me a bettani subsection I will help you write this as Bettani but what would one base this assertion upon??? You tribes are known by the families, subtribe and at the end conglomerate so please give me which section of Bettanis are Swatis from so I find a reference to that effect. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 07:41, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

No lies on race as it just devalues a person's own image. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 07:43, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

i have told you already about two books of bitani tree and lot more about swati pashtuns but sorry to say that you must have some private grudges with Swati pashtuns.....i wil advice you to learn pasho first you are just a pathan a name given to you by mughals and the your rullers.... mr azmarai fake name. Haider khan10 (talk) 09:50, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

I have no intention to what they were ??? all I'm saying is which Bettani subtribe are they from Tattha, Wraspoon and Dhana??? Answer Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 10:05, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

I have no intention to what they were ??? all I'm saying is which Bettani subtribe are they from Tattha, Wraspoon and Dhana??? Answer Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 10:06, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Lieing on race
Swatis are respectable people but of non Pashtun or non Afghan origin. Some of them keep lieing about their race by calling themselves as Yusufzais, Bettanis, Bani Israel meaning Jews which everyone now knows isnot correct as all Jews even in Israel are Askenazis. Their mention in these books:-

1. HISTORY OF AFGHANS BY DORN B. 2. HAZARA GAZETTEER 3. THE KINGDOM OF CAUBAL BY ALPHINSTONE 4. MILITARY PAPERS OF THE BRITISH RAJ 5. OTHER GGOs

has been categorical as "non Afghan or non Pashtun race". However, they are always seen claiming over internet and even now through self written books since 60s as Afghans or Pashtuns.

The tribe was recorded however by all as Pasteurized race due to affinities with Afghans after their fall in Swat at hands of Yusufzai Afghans.

Why do they do it ??? I would call it self-hate or being shameful of their origins. Only half of their population speaks Pashto as a first language but the other half speaks Hindko language. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 11:00, 11 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Pashtunized Azmarai76 (talk) 11:00, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes Swatis are respectabl Pashtun people and for that they don't need your certificate, if you are pashtun try to say something in pashto or leave like a pathan rohilla sulemani khurasani ... and one more thing again that you are just an afghan but not pashtun .. you azmarai Haider khan10 (talk) 11:32, 11 August 2020 (UTC) a man with fake race and identity without name...

Yes I'm who I am don't lie on my race. Butt Sahib Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 11:33, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Azmarai sab are you ok, try to get some rest my sweet grandson and somewhere to take great pashto classed ... pashtun wihtout pashto is not a pashtun but pathan man .... Haider khan10 (talk) 11:37, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

are you ashamed of your race if not than i m a proud swati pashtun but it seeems to be like you are in inferiority coplex due to lack of pashto inside you ... azmarai fake Haider khan10 (talk) 11:37, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Swati Pashtuns you make laugh Mavlawi Sahib Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 11:43, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Btw I'm still waiting for which Bettanis are you so I lock that one. First be sure or some brother of yours must tomorrow come and tell no wrote us wrong. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 11:45, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

halaka i have sent you so many ref but che ta na maany nu za sa wokam .. Swatis are Pashto speaking pashtuns n u just rohilla of india now smile .. khazolaka. Haider khan10 (talk) 15:23, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

fake pathan without pashtu and a true rohilla is azmarai is asleep .. smile now .. . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 15:55, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

I just need subtribe of Bettanis that you descend from nothing else. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 16:58, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

you are just making blunders .... we are Pashto speaking pashtuns so dont put yourself in inferiority complex, i know bro you must be hating your elders for that not to take interest in Pashto...you pathan of patna...now smile ! Haider khan10 (talk) 17:20, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

And I pity for being desperate to become Pashtun..... but all know you .... so sad. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:22, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

If you are Pashtu speaking and that makes you Pashtun what about those Swatis who speak Hindko as their first language ??? Please elaborate Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 17:35, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Swati pashtun tribe
I Would like to suggest to add some sections khels of the Swati tribe, which is very important as far as this article concerned. AKHUN KHEL a clan of the Allaiwals Swatis....ASHLORS a leading clan of tikriwal Swatis of battagram.... ASHRAL a clan of allaiwal Swatis....BEROR a clan of Deshiwal Swatis Black Mountain....BIBAL THOR is also a clan Allaiwals....JADOR a clan of Deshiwal Swatis....KHAN KHEL a clan of Deshiwal Swatis....KUCEHLAI black Mountain Deshiwal Swatis....MADA KHEL a clan of Allaiwals Swatis....MUSA KHEL is also a clan of Allaiwal Swhatis....NARORS a clan Tikriwal Swatis on the eastern suburbs of Black Mountain....SAMKORI a clan of Allaiwals Swaths....SUMLA KHEL a clan of the Deshiwal Swaths....WAROZAIS a clan Deshiwal Swatis....SANA KHEL a Swati clan of Battamori tehsil of Battagram (nandhiar)! Haider khan10 (talk) 13:09, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

KHAZANIS of Chattar plain is a major khel of Swatis in upper Konsh Valley... Allah dy shta Sata.. Ameen! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs) 13:29, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

@Haider khan10 this isn't a promotional piece but educational whatever major ramifications are reflected in the Settlement Papers have.been covered please understand this page was referred to other editors and after reaching a consensus approach amongst all the origin of the tribe and sections as mentioned in old institutional papers were included. Please don't destroy wikipedia. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 00:19, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Moreover, it's not a pushtun tribe per se if you have some kind of inferiority complex and want to make this community Pure Afghans please refer to books written all authentic sources. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 00:50, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Mr Azmarai Abdali, if they are not pashtuns then why are in ghalji tribal tree or you don't look khiljis as pashtuns also?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs) 22:39, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes but incase of Khijis they have been recorded as ,"having lived with Afghans" for centuries. While in case of Swatis not that kind of time passed where they served the common cause and not even such distribution of lands and power takes place amongst Afghans or Pashtuns anymore. From indian I had found all I could to write what was a available in the authentic books and record. But people like you would come and change it to Yusufzais. Tell me are Swatis same as Yusufzais why do you guys lie on race. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 08:13, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

@haidar khan musakhel are Kakars not swatis99.247.39.72 (talk) 01:43, 16 August 2020 (UTC)