Talk:Swati tribe/Archive 2

Swati tribe: Pashtuns or Tajiks?
There has been a lot of discussion already as to this question of origin of the Swati tribe, whether Pashtuns or Tajiks and it has now come to Wikpedia as well. Seeing the history of Pashtuns, I sometimes think that it's so much disputed thing and as the author Willem Vogelsang in his book The Afghans says that, "Looking for the origin of Pashtuns and the Afghans is something like exploring the source of the Amazon. Is there one specific beginning?." There are a lot of theories about their origin and one can even find sources for them since over the years random authors have written books about them as per their alignments. Same is the story about the origin of Swati tribe as well because it too is disputed between Pashtun origin and Tajik origin and both have backing of sources. It is widely believed among the tribe itself and elsewhere that they are Pashtuns but now their Tajik origin is also discussed. It is also an interesting point that Swati tribe wherever they went, adopted the language and culture of the region. Most recently as their majority population lives in Hazara, Pakistan and speak Hindko as their first language, though some speak Pashto as well but are calledHazarewal. Thus about their Pashtun origin it is also likely that they were Pashtunized over the years living among Pashtuns and now with living in Hazara they have become Hazarewal. Two of the books in Urdu which are making up common perception about the origin of Swatis nowadays are Swati Pukhtun by Fazal Mehmood about Pashtun origin and Tajik Swatis and Gibari State by Muhammad Akhtar about Tajik origin. I haven't read the former but I did read the latter which has backing of some good sources from old works about the origin. The book is said to be accredited by some universities and researchers for which I'm finding source. Similarly there is a journal I came across of Peshawar[[ University]]'s Pashto Academy, THE KINGDOM OF SWAT AND THE LOST TAJIKS OF NORTH PAKISTAN by Arif Hassan Akhunzada which also talks about the Tajik origin of the tribe and mentions the sources somewhat same of the book by Muhammad Akhtar and has been published in The Friday Times  and in some other websites as well. However as to determining for which source we should go, I want both of the dissenting editors and  to present their sources as well for a fruitful discussion to form a consensus. USaamo (t@lk) 14:05, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis are Pashtuns according many authors, were being discussed on any book written on Pashtuns, some mentioned them as Pashtuns without any doubt, some reckoned them of turco-tajik tribes, some have the opinion from arabs aryans indians etc, who had assimilated amnog Pashtu speaking tribes so wud be considered as Pashtuns as same as like ghaljis and whole Bhitani tribes because the progenitor of ghalji was a turk prince..one cannot solve the same issue with two different scales...if we follow just follow patrimonial line for pashtuns then we will have to remove all Bhitani tribes out of pashtun list, because blood wise he was a turkish prince..another point is that karlani another son of qais baba was an adopted son, not a real one then how wud karlani be real pashtuns without any blood line...but today we can observed that Graet ghaljis and Karlanis are more pashtuns than any other tribes....there ate different views that who are pashtuns, tribes assimilated in them is tribal view is more convincing than lineal view .. Regards: Haider khan10 (talk) 20:20, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Another book "Pashtun Tribes in urdu written by Kamran Ahmed Sohadarvi, he describes almost all Pashtun Tribes including Swati Pashtuns also....Regards Haider khan10 (talk) 22:10, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Famous author intellectual from Swat perveesh Shaheen yousafzai wrote a book name "ancient tribe of Swat Swati Pashtun". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs) 21:09, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

My sources aren't books that people keep writing to their benefits as If they are fighting a case from the scratch for categorize this tribe a Pashtuns. These are as following and verifiable online:-

1. Hazara Gazetteer 1883 and 1907 2. Imperial Gazetteer of India (1 and 2 both official documents) 3. Tribes of Hindukush (John Biddulph 1880) 4. Notes on Afghanistan (Maj. Raverty) 5. History of Afghans by Dorn B. 6. The Pathans by Olaf Caroe. 1950...1952 7. Kindgom of Cauble Elphistone. 8. Hayat e Afghan by Hayat Khan. 9. Khursheed e Jahan by Sher Muhammad Gandapur. 10. An inquiry into ethnography of Afghanistan

These are all printed by "publishers" and by "printers" like the other editor is presenting to build up his case of the tribe being Pashtun or Afghan.

Late in 1960s some of these communities did try to generate content to prove they are Afghans or Pashtuns all printed by "printed" and poorly sourced. Same is the case with this tribe.

The editors Haider Khan 10 couldn't even answer my simple question if this tribe is:-

1. Sarbarni 2. Karlanri 3. Ghorghusts 4. Bettanis ( he did try to make an edit to call Swatis as Bettani tribe without any idea which Bettanis subsection they are from????

He doesn't believe in fables as he always keep saying but trying to descend from these fables himself. (Strange isn't it)???.

Swatis are Pashtunized Tajiks of an old race once known "Dehqans" that's they name they have been joining the British Army and that Military paper is still valid for official purposes to date. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 02:32, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

The other editor has been quoting books all printed after 1960s onwards by " printers" and "publishers" so noone can see what content they have if correct or otherwise. My question for the brother here is still valid which Bettani subtribe he thinks Swatis are from ???? Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 03:02, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Sorry typo "printers" not "publishers" ..... Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 03:03, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

My sources aren't books that people keep writing to their benefits as If they are fighting a case from the scratch to categorize this tribe a Pashtuns. These are as following and verifiable online:-

1. Hazara Gazetteer 1883 and 1907 2. Imperial Gazetteer of India (1 and 2 both official documents) 3. Tribes of Hindukush (John Biddulph 1880) 4. Notes on Afghanistan (Maj. Raverty) 5. History of Afghans by Dorn B. 6. The Pathans by Olaf Caroe. 1950...1952 7. Kindgom of Cauble Elphistone. 8. Hayat e Afghan by Hayat Khan. 9. Khursheed e Jahan by Sher Muhammad Gandapur. 10. An inquiry into Ethnography of Afghanistan.

These are all printed by "publishers" and not by "printers" like the other Haider Khan 10 is presenting to build up his case of the tribe being Pashtun or Afghan.

Late in 1960s some of these communities did try to generate content to prove they are Afghans or Pashtuns all printed by "printers" and poorly sourced. Same is the case with this tribe.

The editors Haider Khan 10 couldn't even answer my simple question if this tribe is:-

1. Sarbarni 2. Karlanri 3. Ghorghusts 4. Bettanis ( he did try to make an edit to call Swatis as Bettani tribe without any idea which Bettanis subsection they are from????

He doesn't believe in fables as he always keep saying but trying to descend from these fables himself. (Strange isn't it)???.

Swatis are Pashtunized Tajiks of an old race once known "Dehqans" that's they name they have been joining the British Army and that Military paper is still valid for official purposes to date. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 02:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I had put a question to my dear friend Haider khan10 from which subsection of Bettanis are Swatis from ??? Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 07:04, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

my dear friend i had told you about two books one of them is khan roshan khans book tazkara and another one is swati pakhtun of fazal mehmood khan director education peshawar.

Now will you pls tell me are ghalji pakhtun, whereas the father of the tribe was a turk prince and are karlani pashtuns, he was an adopted son of qais baba....today both of them are recognized as super pashtuns, do you think it because of paternal lineage !! . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 09:53, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

And I am constantly telling you what's your claim Yusufzai Battani of Ghilzai ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 10:11, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Btw.... you are admitting yourself that Swatis aren't progeny of Qais Abdur Rasheed in the statement. When will Turkmaan be added to this conglomerate??? If we keep adding people to the list of Afghans after 60s. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:16, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I have kept telling you the four Pushtun confedracies are considered as same because they have served the "common cause".... Have Swatis done so with any four of them??? Azmarai76 (talk) 10:19, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Please tell me ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 10:19, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Moreover, you are calling Qais as fables why did you change the article to "Swatis are descendants of Qais Abdur Rasheed". ?????? Azmarai76 (talk) 10:24, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

You don't believe in it and nor part of it but have to keep editing. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:27, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

You don't become something by comparing apples with oranges. Azmarai76 (talk) 12:28, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

My question still remains unanswered which Bettani subtribe are Swatis related to ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 12:47, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

If Swatis are 1. Karlanris 2. Bettanis 3. Ghorghusts 4. Sarbanris ??? If they are none of these and Qais is a fable how are Swatis pashtuns ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 11:43, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

if karlanis are pashtuns according to your theory, if great ghaljis are pashtuns, whereas karlani was an adopted son not a real one and Gjaljis ancestor was a turk prince, all we knpw that these tribes are more pashtuns than any .. now why are you avoiding my queries??????? still i m holding my words that patrimonial line is just a fable folklore nothing else ... just reply my raised point now .... as i had given you references about Swati pashtun from Bhittani tribal confederation !!. . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 13:17, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes why not omit them.... or not but this tribe isn't Pashtun. Swatis are half Pashto speaking tribe that is ethinically not Pashtuns or Afghans at all while you omit those tribes I would suggest to please place this article as it was before.... People with origins don't build identities on arguements rather they are recorded. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:24, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis are Bhittanis okay please do tell me which subsection????? Azmarai76 (talk) 14:49, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

If karlanis are pashtuns according to your theory, if great ghaljis are pashtuns, whereas karlani was an adopted son not a real one and Gjaljis ancestor was a turk prince, all we knpw that these tribes are more pashtuns than any .. now why are you avoiding my queries??????? still i m holding my words that patrimonial line is just a fable folklore nothing else ... just reply my raised point now .... as i had given you references about Swati pashtun from Bhittani tribal confederation !! think over it again and again if qais baba went with a delegation to prophet with forty more persons to accept Islam, so whole tribe converted to new religion, my question is where rest of the fourty persons have gone, were not they pashtuns,whereas qais went with his fellow tribesmen then why just qais baba sons line wud be called Pashtuns, where that huge tribe gone vanished who accepted Islam ..... thats all unbelievable stories dosnt looks good with great Pashtuns !!. . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 13:30, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

had Qais baba four sons????. . Haider khan10 (talk) 13:32, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

if four sons then bhitans daughter got married to a turk prince and karlani was an adopted one so assimilated and became great pashtuns????. . . Haider khan10 (talk) 13:40, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

is this you who typed "Please leave it one who knows the tribe and let me edit it. Btw they are tajiks like many other others got pashtunized like Shilamnis Bangashes, Sheranis, Mishwanis, Marwats, Niazi, Lodhi, Suris so better omit them all from list of tribes. Azmarai76"??!!!. . . Haider khan10 (talk) 13:43, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

according to you the whole bhitanis tribes were pashtunised like marwats suris ghoris sheranis lodhis bangash mashwanis niazis and ofcource Swatis !!!!! Regards bro. . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 13:49, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes why not omit them.... or not but this tribe isn't Pashtun. Swatis are half Pashto speaking tribe that is ethinically not Pashtuns or Afghans at all while you omit those tribes I would suggest to please place this article as it was before.... People with origins don't build identities on arguements rather they are recorded. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:23, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

1. Qais for you is no more as you called him fable so let's not even talk about him anymore what happened to him or what didn't.

2.Yes and still say many tribes got "Pashtunized" ( a fact recorded) but Swatis aren't Pashtuns as they haven't been recorded so while the others have been. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:31, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

3. Asking me again and again about Qais is hilarious as you claimed him to be your ancestor by editing this article like Swatis are descendants of Qais Abdur Rasheed. Why are always doing all this Pashtun and Afghan pages just because you aren't one yourself. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:39, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

4. You can't get out of the logical framework of the scope of study and I can see what ethnicity you are proposing time and again for Shah Hussain Ghori is again not the fact ..... Mavlawi Sahib .... seems like collecting nothing Azmarai76 (talk) 14:43, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

5. No Pashtuns are going with stories like you said they have always been recorded in

1. Official records 2. Settlement papers 3. Military documents and GGOs 4. No genetic lines of Afghans and Pashtuns are known.

So my friend don't think it easy to claim anything you want these days.

Why am I taking this much interest in this article because many editors like you have been editing is as Swatis are Yusufzais...... now you guys having started linking yourselves to Bittanis and Qais Abur Rasheed also. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:57, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Typo at point 4 above # Afghan and Pashtun genetic lines are even now known. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:59, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes why not omit them.... or not but this tribe isn't Pashtun. Swatis are half Pashto speaking tribe that is ethinically not Pashtuns or Afghans at all while you omit those tribes I would suggest to please place this article as it was before.... People with origins don't build identities on arguements rather they are recorded.

1. Qais for you is no more as you called him fable so let's not even talk about him anymore what happened to him or what didn't.

2.Yes and I still say many tribes got "Pashtunized" ( a fact recorded) but Swatis aren't Pashtuns (a fact recorded).

3. You can't become what you want in 1960 as till 1953 Swatis have been well recorded as non Pashtuns and non Afghans.

4. Which Bettanis are Swatis saying a community is like another one isn't enough to say they are both the same. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

5. Swatis are Bhittanis okay even if we suppose that please do tell me which subsection????? Azmarai76 (talk) 14:51, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

just omit them all these great pashtun tribes just because you said that !!!!!

"is this you who typed "Please leave it one who knows the tribe and let me edit it. Btw they are tajiks like many other others got pashtunized like Shilamnis Bangashes, Sheranis, Mishwanis, Marwats, Niazi, Lodhi, Suris so better omit them all from list of tribes. ... you are only left ...

you will be highly appreciatedif you try to investigate cultural assimilation view also if you want. . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 14:59, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

No Pashtuns are going with stories like you said they have always been recorded in

1. Official records 2. Settlement papers 3. Military documents and GGOs 4. Now even the genetic lines of Afghans and Pashtuns are known and they are unlike Swatis.

So my friend don't think its easy to claim anything you want these days.

Why am I taking this much interest in this article because many editors like you have been editing it as Swatis are Yusufzais...... now you guys have started linking yourselves to Bittanis and Qais Abur Rasheed also and call him a fable also. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:02, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I had told you I had done so your Swati culture is same as the common culture of all the population living in that area and this culture cannot be labelled as Afghan Pashtun Tajik or Turk. It's a common thing that all share. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:05, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis have been defined very beautifully almost everywhere two hundred years before as " Non Afghan / pashtun race that got Pashtunized due to Affinities with Afghans and are from Tajik race of Dehqans / Deggan."

This is the most comprehensive definition for this tribe that covers racial, political, cultural and historical narrative of this tribe. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:09, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Why is that offensive to editors like you I don't understand. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:11, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes I still stand by what I typed Swatis are Pashtunized Tajiks that you don't seem to agree to. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:16, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

If karlanis are pashtuns according to your theory, if great ghaljis are pashtuns, whereas karlani was an adopted son not a real one and Gjaljis ancestor was a turk prince, all we knpw that these tribes are more pashtuns than any .. now why are you avoiding my queries??????? still i m holding my words that patrimonial line is just a fable folklore nothing else ... just reply my raised point now .... as i had given you references about Swati pashtun from Bhittani tribal confederation !! think over it again and again if qais baba went with a delegation to prophet with forty more persons to accept Islam, so whole tribe converted to new religion, my question is where rest of the fourty persons have gone, were not they pashtuns,whereas qais went with his fellow tribesmen then why just qais baba sons line wud be called Pashtuns, where that huge tribe gone vanished who accepted Islam ..... thats all unbelievable stories dosnt looks good with great Pashtuns !!. i m asking you again and again !!!. . .  Haider khan10 (talk) 15:18, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Are we discussing Karlanris here I have answered you Swatis aren't Karlanris so why even talk about them please come up with answer for which Bettani subsection are Swatis from and why have you deleted  the topics on the talk page ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 15:22, 14 August 2020 (UTC) look at your view brother ..."Yes why not omit them.... or not but this tribe isn't Pashtun. Swatis are half Pashto speaking tribe that is ethinically not Pashtuns or Afghans at all while you omit those tribes I would suggest to please place this article as it was before.... People with origins don't build identities on arguements rather they are recorded".. . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 15:24, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Arbitrary break for readability and accessibility 1
You can't delete the talk page topics please  follow the Wikipedia standards. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:28, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

What I have written is true. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:29, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Deleting the talk page topics is something against the Wikipedia standards undo your changes now. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:31, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Undo what you have deleted from here it's against the Wikipedia standards. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:34, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis if Bhittanis please give me their exact subsection please ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 15:42, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Have good guess which Bettani are you there's is difference between "pashtunized like Bettani" and "Bettani proper" as you have been trying to change in this article and now have put forth claim to this tribe's origin as "Pashtuns" omitting it's Dehqan ethnic origins and making the article look like giving out info on Swatis as " Pushtun tribe of Bhittanis Confederate". Azmarai76 (talk) 15:48, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I am still waiting for which Pashtuns are Swatis 1. Sarabanr 2. Karlanri 3. Bittani (if so which subsection) 4. Ghorghusts??? Azmarai76 (talk) 16:01, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I am really sorry but you guys weren't even recorded as Pashtuns or Afghans in what you call fables now ..... Azmarai76 (talk) 16:03, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

first of all let me clear one thing we dont consider ourselves as afghans but Great Pashtuns .. yes i do believe that u r afghan only...for people like you only "cha lala afghan krama cha lala pathan krama .. za sada pakhtun yama za sada insan yama. take help of a Pashtun to translate it for you !!!! .... Haider khan10 (talk) 17:09, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

its all about a tribal knot in which all pashtuns are tied up in one language culture customs traditions etc... not like millions millions of people belongs to single man !!!!. . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 17:15, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

How easy to be over internet without any effort. This is the problem faced by many countries around the globe. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:28, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Really.... why are you making claims about something you aren't aware of .... do you practice what they call "walwar" which I am sure you don't??? Do you ??? If you don't do it what other things do you have common in culture with Pashtuns. Btw ... we both know no tribe of Pashtuns really considers you Pashtuns as you are nowhere found in records as Pashtuns.... Azmarai76 (talk) 17:38, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

There are multiple claims or theories about the origins of the Pashtun tribes, who are classified as an Iranic ethnic group.

Among them are:

The traditional legend of descent from King Saul, sometimes called TATTE OF HINDU's origin theory. Hephthalite (White Hun) descent. Descent from Sakas. they were Descent from Pakthas. Descent from Greek peoples and rajput people Prior to DNA studies, it was generally acknowledged that their origins were obscure, and modern scholars suggest that a single origin of the Pashtuns is unlikely but rather they are a tribal confederation

see so many theories, you have no right to pin point few major tribes like lodhis ghoris suris marwats niazis sheranis ghaljis and swatis ... they are Pashtuns and one can omit it brother.. . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 17:24, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Really.... why are you making claims about something you aren't aware of .... do you practice what they call "walwar" which I am sure you don't??? Do you ??? If you don't do it what other things do you have common in culture with Pashtuns. Btw ... we both know no tribe of Pashtuns really considers you Pashtuns as you are nowhere found in records as Pashtuns...... Azmarai76 (talk) 17:20, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

You can just type and paste here this bravery should have been in the field 500 years back. Still, you guys just go back on what you say yourselves. Your only motive is do disruptive editing to Wikipedia nothing else..... are you ready for "walwar" or "toyana" I will send you a few bucks. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:24, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Are we discussing Pashtun theories or Swatis tribe ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 17:29, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I am talking about Swatis here the rest of tribes aren't being discussed here.... Mawlavi Sahib Azmarai76 (talk) 17:31, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Simple why are Swatis not getting matched genetically with any Pashtun tribes that you keep mentioning. Pashtuns are in majority RM158 while not something incase of Swatis. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:33, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Furthermore, why do you guys put a claim to be a progeny of a single person if you don't believe in it. Is it something like if others would be wrong we would be wrong too to prove we are right. Is that the case ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 17:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

kash ka tala pukhto ratly, kho afsos kawam che da num lala ye !!!!! pls brother behave like a good man...kindly tell me how more pashtun trinbs are there on your hit list....how many more tribes you want to be omitted !!!!!! . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 17:39, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I am just expecting EdJohnston to undo the change you made else I could do it myself but won't sneak in and make changes.... to the article. Always do ablution before you make claim of being a Pashtun..... Azmarai76 (talk) 17:41, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

That's what you do bro.... I don't omit or include anyone like you without a reason. Sarbanrs Karlanrs Bettans or Ghorghusts don't need you to argue for them being Pashtuns, they have the records needed, now if your official position is that of being Pashtunized just recently what can someone else do ???? Azmarai76 (talk) 17:44, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Like if you ask anyone of those tribes all they need to do is make reference to the official records not to some unknown people and authors whose books are printed by printers and they would always keep them off the eyes of publishers as publishing houses check what has been written and how correct that is. Btw.... don't you think 1960s was late enough to make yourselves as Pashtuns????? Azmarai76 (talk) 17:49, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

As far as origins of Pashtuns is concerned they are now very much clear...... Azmarai76 (talk) 17:51, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

If a person from Afghanistan marrys an Indian woman today. Would his children be entitled to be called Indo aryans????? NO because the process happened 4000 years back now such event be considered a normal interracial marriage. Did you get it ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 18:01, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Pashtunized Tajik race of Dehqans................ Azmarai76 (talk) 18:05, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

why cant you understand brother, there are different views among different tribes of pashtuns, some say were of indian origon some says they are estern iranian people some as aryans some jews sythians buddhist as herodotus called pashtuns pactians righved pakhtavas and in osta also....ghani khan has his own view called them a mixed race...so then why do you want to omit few great pashtun tribess including swati Pashtuns.......Haider khan10 (talk) 19:01, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Bro .... I know all my point here is Swatis not Pashtuns. Swatis are genetically as RM198, Q, JM172 and LM20 while Pashtuns have other genetic clades. The days of guessing have gone away now things get very clear. Moreover, Swatis own claim of being Jews, Buddhists and Scythian has never been recorded. Just limit yourself to this tribe for discussion. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:08, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Btw... when are you making Turks and Hazara part of you ???? Azmarai76 (talk) 19:09, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I have stood by your tribe academically as much it deserves as Pashtunized tajiks but if you want me to keep mute and let you destroy the record that's what isn't plausible. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:13, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

All these sources that you keep quoting.... were they professional anthropologists, historians, govt. record keepers ?? Please I would suggest you to read what was gotten recorded by your elders themselves.

If you aren't Pashtun it's nothing to be ashamed of they aren't special maybe you are far better than they are ..... mark my words once you read Maj. Ravertys Notes of Afghanistan and Baluchistan or Elphistones Kingdom of Caubal. You can't be from that line if you are same as others.... I hope you understand what I am saying..... We popalzais keep the record straight for our origins don't tell others we are same as you are...... Azmarai76 (talk) 19:20, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I assure you myself as a Durrani Pashtuns are as ordinary humans as anyone. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:25, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

If you look at this article the heading was kept as Pashtun tribe to make pointation to pashtunization process you have gone through and at the same time the origins of the tribe Tajiks or Dehqans were also given to get a neutral view point. It was mentioning your tribe clearly as what they are racially and what shape they are taking now so the idea was to cover cultural, linguistic, racial and political definition of your tribe but you people come in every day to change it to three different versions 1. Descendants of Qais (which you yourself don't believe in) 2. Yusufzais (impossible and you know why) 3. Bettanis. Will that keep your tribe as one community or would all this disruptive editing by you guys bring bad name to your tribe?????? Azmarai76 (talk) 19:34, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

For me it's just an article and keep many other like this on watch list....

Azmarai76 (talk) 19:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

wow now you have shown your interest in modern sciences also like genetics !!! then go and see in Pashtuns genetic section.......dont even think im not Pashtun you non pashtunic abdali !!!!. . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 19:38, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

So are they same on SNP and STRs as Pashtuns???? Azmarai76 (talk) 19:42, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Even at big Y Swatis aren't matching other Pashtuns especially as Yusufzais or Bettanis .... indic wannabe pashtun Azmarai76 (talk) 19:44, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

At 13 marker tests they are total outliers than Pashtuns where would you put that .. this all is a pointation towards the fact recorded about you by Dorn B. in his classic book history of Afghans.... Azmarai76 ([[User talk:Azmarai76
 * talk]]) 19:47, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

mr abdali, pls read authors like bahadur shah zafer kaka khel, Roshan Khan Roshan, Dr Sher Bahadur Khan.panni and Fazal Mehmood Khan etc im sure by reading such great pashtuns you definitely leave bellew and all stuff like them and makhzane afghani of mughal king jahangir's time also...ka ta ma namany za ta namanam qisa hazam. !!!!. . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 19:56, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

i will request you to see Pashtun article under genetic section ... you without pashto like thing. . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 19:56, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

You half Hindko half yusufzai pushtu thing if you think we are sitting and keeping a watch over Wikipedia we are volunteering and have read all...... Roshan Khan book Bahadur Shah Zafar Kakakhel were all translated in Persian also..... Roshan Khan has clearly mentioned in book Tareekh e Hafiz Rehmat Khani as Swatis being beaten out of Swat by Yusufzais and not Pushtuns. Bahadur Shah Zafar Kakakhel has written you Dalazhak..... Are you Dalazhak also now ??? Don't think these things you are talking about weren't spread out through Persian translation during communist regime at Kabul. Azmarai76 (talk) 20:03, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Furthermore, refer and see what Sultan e Rome Professor from Pakistan has written you as " no authority has ever claimed they are Pashtuns". Azmarai76 (talk) 20:06, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

If I were you with your assertions I wouldn't mention the sources that were against your own tribe. Azmarai76 (talk) 20:10, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

see so many views and you want to omit alot of main pashtun trbes from the pashtun list...... .. . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 20:14, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

As an Afghan nationalist I am giving you all the leverage one can else read all books not "fables" what they have written about you directly or in a hidden manner. Azmarai76 (talk) 20:15, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't omit and enlist "Neemcha" as Biddulph has called you. I just go by a neutral view point and try to accommodate go the maximum I can. But what is fact is fact else like I told you if you talk to a Pashtun Nationalist he laughs even at the notion of Swatis being Pashtuns what to say of being Afghans. Azmarai76 (talk) 20:18, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Pashtuns are defined as Four conglomerates and Swatis aren't part of any of it. What should I do ??? Genetically they are different than the tribes you claim to be from... is that my fault ???? Azmarai76 (talk) 20:21, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

do you still stand with your words???? " Please leave it one who knows the tribe and let me edit it. Btw they are tajiks like many other others got pashtunized like Shilamnis Bangashes, Sheranis, Mishwanis, Marwats, Niazi, Lodhi, Suris so better omit them all from list of tribes. Azmarai76" ... so sad non pashtunic Abdali.. . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 20:23, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

If you can omit them....... but that would change Swatis racially.... and why are you half indian so worried for others we are here to discuss this tribe. Azmarai76 (talk) 20:25, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

While Bangashes, Niazis, Marwats were part of the Pashtun council and wars you were against it..... what can I do now they consider each other as kin and you as a strangers due to the fact historically you have remained adversaries as you were different race..... Azmarai76 (talk) 20:28, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

You should see I did help you guys this much to get you leverage but now if you try to adopt Bettani or Yusufzai identity that wouldn't be acceptable to any academic. Azmarai76 (talk) 20:30, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Mawlavi Sahib seems like community hasn't given you alms since long ..... Azmarai76 (talk) 20:32, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Khar dar jama e asp .... asp na shavad..... get it translated.... Azmarai76 (talk) 20:34, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Rest If you are really someone with little understanding you would know what content was generated and spread in local languages after the communist regime and Saur revolution at Kabul. Azmarai76 (talk) 20:43, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Mr. Great Neemcha in words Biddulph in his book the tribes of hindukush..... Azmarai76 (talk) 20:49, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

You did even answer my offer for "walwar" still as you have pashtun culture. Azmarai76 (talk) 21:02, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Fikar mekunam to tar Bezani ..... her this translated But Sahib...... Azmarai76 (talk) 21:07, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

mara kena pa aram ao khushala shwam che farsi de okra ..

oh now conglomerates, is it you changing your stance now feom qais offsprings to four conglomerates...v good abdali you non pashtunic.. . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 21:26, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

it seems to be changing xolors now ha....taking your post words back. rediculous !!!!!. . . . . .  Haider khan10 (talk) 21:26, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

conglomerates = a collected heterogenous mass, see you tilting towards my point now, different peopele tied up in one knot with same language land etc become pashtuns with the passage of time, not like from one progenitor so called !!!!!! ..... Haider khan10 (talk) 21:38, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I would use Confederate if it the other word chills your spine Hindko neemcha ..... don't worry.... those with education understand what I mean???? Azmarai76 (talk) 22:23, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Four confederates without Swatis Cis indus tribe and these are Sarabanris, Karlanris, Ghorghusts and Bettanis but not Swatis is it clear now. Azmarai76 (talk) 22:25, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

well i can see the most persianized tribe among your afghans are Abdalis!! so true. . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 22:29, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

So why only you have so many claims to one community unlike others and link with none Mavlawi Sahib ..... is it looking for anyone be careful about choosing as every third week one amongst you comes in here and changes the article what he thinks is correct.... Sometimes Yusufzais, Bettanis and even progeny of the person you call fable...... Azmarai76 (talk) 22:30, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

All the above three claims stand incorrect..... as per records..... and authentic books. Azmarai76 (talk) 22:31, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes as we ruled and Persian is the language of many civilisation while those who are still confused about their origins try to hide themselves under something that's not even theirs ..... Azmarai76 (talk) 22:34, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Must be embarrassing.... for me it's not difficult to make headings from books and write your reality from official records you will repent to make me do it....... Azmarai76 (talk) 22:37, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

We didn't get Pashtunized like neemchas...... Azmarai76 (talk) 22:40, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Hats off Yusufzais did nice polishing ........ Azmarai76 (talk) 22:41, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Rather you should've been pushed further ..... done the vale of Jamu.... Azmarai76 (talk) 22:44, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

amzinuturn like Imran Khan, looks likegly convinved with my believe cultural tribal view ... you the most persianized afghan *S*. . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 22:48, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

so you are the most persianized afghan, who even forgot his Ancestry !!!!!! . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 22:48, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

so you are persianized picture of afghan ... laas che maat shi gary la razi.. . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 22:52, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't what are your last three responses about ..... but ancestry of tribe is recorded however not topic of discussion here it's your tribe and I'm saying to choose a line yourself before you come out and:-

1. misqoute unauthentic sources

2. Keep stressing Swatis are Pashtuns as Pashtuns have different theories of origin.

The above two shows your desperation to make this tribe a Pashtun tribe per se.

I wish I could help you but I really can't be part of your following claims:-

1. Swatis are descendants of Qais (not in records)

2. They are Bettanis (not in recorded again)

3. They are Yusufzais ( not in records)

I wish I could help you here but you have been making the above edits to Pashtun pages since ages now and needed to be told to come out of your self imposed intoxication of being Pashtun which you aren't. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:26, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Every authority from Abdul Hai Habibi to Hiwadmal Sahib are of the same idea. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:36, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

We do respect your claim of being Pashtunized Pashtunized Tajik of Dehqan ghalcha tribes that are spread in Northeastern Afghanistan. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:40, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Your ways of sneaking in and build a case for your tribe being of probable Bettani section is part of the records here at Wikipedia. You have been there in our eyes since ages you are doing nothing but just getting yourself a certificate of bad editing that are unsourced. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:59, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Khar dar jama e asp .... asp naa shavad..... neemcha sahib as Biddulph has written you...... Azmarai76 (talk) 05:07, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

i will appreciate you for such a lovely show of being persianized the most .... keep it up ... i love Pashto and really like persian after all pashtuns are estern iranian tribes......sstray mashy lala.. . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 06:08, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

While you aren't eastern Iranian nor pashtun ..... as per Biddulph, wace, denzil Ibettson and even Roshan khan...... while you claim you are descended from Jews also ..... Azmarai76 (talk) 06:16, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Amitorus yaa naay dega???? Azmarai76 (talk) 06:17, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

There's a limit to everything which of the above quoted four lines are you from now ???? Azmarai76 (talk) 06:20, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Plus you are in same land as other Pashtuns is again a kind of a statement that isn't correct..... your location has been recorded everywhere in Cis-indus area of something like Hazara....... Azmarai76 (talk) 06:22, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Was it not a neutral view point keeping the heading as Pashtun tribe for this article and shedding light on your origins also as has been done for all on their respective pages why did you kept changing without keeping in mind the neutral view point and other acedemic standards in mind ???? Any answer..... Azmarai76 (talk) 06:26, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

You can see editors from your own area have been changing you people to Yusufzais or Bettani or descendants of Qais or Jews..... i have looked for all four and found nothing in this regard..... the only mention of you guys was pashtunized people dehqan tajik origins. Azmarai76 (talk) 06:49, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

dont thrust your words on us like yousafzais etc...keep in mind mr pertianized that Swatis are Pashtuns according to cultural definition....stop jumping around just tied upto to your paternal lineage view now SO CALLED......Haider khan10 (talk) 07:16, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

i have adviced to read some of the great books, but i dont know why you denied them .... Azmarai Khana.. . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 07:20, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Arbitrary break for readability and accessibility 2
First of all for God sake stop spamming this talkpage you both, by creating new sections. Read the talkpage guidelines WP:TPG and follow them while you discuss the matter here. You both are editing aggressively against the Wikipedia standards and policies and making it a battleground WP:BATTLEGROUND. I've notified you both about the community sanctions in place on this page. So be cautious, you have already been blocked over edit-warring here and next you will end up at WP:AN if you continued this style of editing. USaamo (t@lk) 07:52, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

You have seen himself now he is no more Bettani but a Pashtun culturally..... Azmarai76 (talk) 08:32, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Ask him if his tribe practises walwar the bride money custom ??? Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 08:35, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

The way you guys are discussing it not helping to resolve it. Please read what Wikipedia is not WP:NOT and follow that while you are here. You both, have presented various sources in above discussion but verifiability of those sources is one of the core content policy on Wikipedia WP:VERIFY, so you're required to give the source of the book and page numbers for consideration of your source and assertion. USaamo (t@lk) 08:40, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Well i can give you all the sources that are online and can be seen all printed by authorities and publishers whi matter and not content generated latter by these people and given a shape of a book. These as following :-

1. Hazara Gazetteer 1883 and 1907 2. Imperial Gazetteer of India (1 and 2 both official documents) 3. Tribes of Hindukush (John Biddulph 1880) 4. Notes on Afghanistan (Maj. Raverty) 5. History of Afghans by Dorn B. 6. The Pathans by Olaf Caroe. 1950...1952 7. Kindgom of Cauble Elphistone. 8. Hayat e Afghan by Hayat Khan. 9. Khursheed e Jahan by Sher Muhammad Gandapur. Azmarai76 (talk) 08:56, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Please specify the page numbers and if possible quote as well so that it may be cited. USaamo (t@lk) 09:04, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Notes on Afghanistan and Baluchistan (Maj. Raverty) Page 51 and 52 / Page 117 Azmarai76 (talk) 09:10, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

History of Afghans by Dorn B. Part II P. 131 Azmarai76 (talk) 09:11, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

An Account of the Kingdom of Caubul: page 415 to 417 Azmarai76 (talk) 09:13, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

These can be seen online .... when started trying to become Pashtuns or Afghans proper they got themselves in trouble.... Azmarai76 (talk) 09:17, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Pashtunized means have adopted Pashtun language and habits plus other things who they are racially " Pashtunized tajiks and this tribe was styled as Degans or Dehqans ( not literally farmer ) also. Azmarai76 (talk) 09:27, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't think Dorn B. wasn't knowing anything of Swatis as he commented the best about them. Azmarai76 (talk) 09:51, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

thats what he posted "Please leave it one who knows the tribe and let me edit it. Btw they are tajiks like many other others got pashtunized like Shilamnis Bangashes, Sheranis, Mishwanis, Marwats, Niazi, Lodhi, Suris so better omit them all from list of tribes. Azmarai76", he didnt reckoned all the above mentioned tribes as Pashtuns ... ask him why he wants to omit them pashtuns list??? now i will post some references also with page numbers..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs) 10:53, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Try to find the history books before 1950 atleatst all these tribes werent made in 1950s. Azmarai76 (talk) 11:26, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

All you have to give us is something that proves you Pashtun culturally, only in your oen words. Azmarai76 (talk) 11:37, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Make your case leave others.... Azmarai76 (talk) 11:39, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Remember you admitted

1. Swatis aren't Bettanis

2. Aren't descendants of Qais as you say he is a fable.

3. Swatis are Pashtuns only culturally.

Therefore, find us references to point 3 above only. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:19, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

A book "Tazkira" by Khan Roshan Khan Roshan page no 184 to 188. A book "History of Hazara" by Dr Sher Bahadur Khan Panni..page number 397 to 415. A book "Swati Pakhtun" by Fazal Mehmood Khan.

I will send you more that Swatis are Pashtuns. Haider khan10 (talk) 21:51, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

let me raise a few points here that if qais baba had sons and all pashtuns are his offsprings then how would you add Ghalji as Pashutns because the daughter of Bitan baba married to a turk prince not pashtun and the whole karlani was an adopted son of qais baba not a real one so how they also be considered as pashtun, whereas he was adopted one, certainly of different race not pashtun???? Now we can observe they are more Pashtuns than any other tribes and it clearly nagates the patrimonial view about Pashtuns. One more thing if qais baba visited Madina to see Prophet with his forty or more tribesmen to accept Islam as a whole then why only Qais babas sons will be counted as pashtuns only, i mean where other members of his delegation and tribe waiting for them in their country, had gone, hadn't they accept Islam?? All the delegations which were gone to see prophet 1400 years ago are well documented as Hadith, whereas we don't see any of Qais Abdul Rashid amongst them, so it clearly indicates that all these are just fable stories about pashtuns and for this i would hold the writer of "tareekhe khan jahani wa maghzane afghani", Niamatullah hirvi as culprit, thousands of miles away from the moherland of Pashtuns wrote this book without any logic !!!! Now my important point is what made great Ghlajis and karlins had made them pashtuns, what left next, don't you think it must be language culture traditions and land, which got them united and tied up in a knot, if you can omit as you had said before Bhitanis and karlanis out of Pashtun list then I will take out Swati Pashtun out of the list also....you know we are among few of the beggest land owning tribe in the whole KPK so we have Land customs traditions and Language nevertheless some of us speak hindko also but even then their mother tongue is Pashto. Haider khan10 (talk) 23:03, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

According to Denzil Ibbeston..The true Pathans are apparently of indian origin. their language called pashto and they call themselves Pukhtana or Pakhto speakers and it is the word of which pathan is the indian corruption the ibbeston talks about their dwellings, after that he is of the opinion that the Afghans and Galzais Ghlajis spread into their country and adopted their language and customs and just as Irish Scotch and Welsh speaking the english language are commonly called Englishmen, so all who speak the paushto tongue came to be included under the name pathan. Thus the Afghans and Ghaljis are pathans by virtue of their language, though not pathan origin; The Tajik and Hazaras have retained their persian speech are not Pathans; while all five are Afghans by virtue of their location, though only one of them of Afghan race. The above lines are taken from a book called Panjab Castes. So the point is what made them united as one tribe, it was language customs and land for sure. He further said that "But around this nucleus have collected many tribes of foreign origin such as the scythic kakar, the Rajput waziri and many tribes of turk extraction included in the karlani section who came in with subagtagin and taimur, the whold have now blended into one nation by long association and intermarriage, the invaders have adopted the pashto language and all alike have accepted Islam and have invented traditions of common descent which express their present state of association". He also mentions that Ghaljis are a race of probably of turkish origin and its another form of kilchi a turkish word for swordsman... He scaled Swatis Jaduns Diazaks Shilmanis even Tanoli tribes of Hazara division with the same formula that these tribes were assimilateed in pashtuns through manners customs character! As same as he mentioned other tribes like Ghalji Waziri and others intermingled and which express their present state of association also. Haider khan10 (talk) 00:30, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Mr Ibbeston is of the view that Jaduns are of indian origin and were know as Jadu or Yadu people of ones Rajput tribe and Swati a pashtun tribe as Hindu origin .... its all important because man in front of me insisting on just one view that the progenitor of Pashtuns is a man called Qais baba. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs) 01:19, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Is that a logical dialogue??? Azmarai76 (talk) 02:53, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Limit yourself to points 1 2 3 above as we came to that conclusion. No need to repeat things as you are..... Azmarai76 (talk) 02:56, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Remember you admitted

1. Swatis aren't Bettanis

2. Aren't descendants of Qais as you say he is a fable.

3. Swatis are Pashtuns only culturally.

Therefore, find us references to point 3 above only. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:09, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis are Pashtuns not afghans, didn't you get the answer on above paragraphs !!!! I think you have nothing to reply now brother???? Haider khan10 (talk) 05:25, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis are Pashtuns through their culture customs land and language, i think language Pashto is the most important thing to become Pashtuns otherwise wht left is a pathan afghan khurasani rohilla sulemani only but not pashtun.. "Jranda ka de plaar da ... Kho pa waar da. Haider khan10 (talk) 05:37, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

cha lala pathan krama cha lala afghan krama .. za sada pakhtun yama za sada insaan yama. Haider khan10 (talk) 05:38, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

I have a book in my hand right now "campaigns on the north west frontier" by Captain H L Nevill 1910, in which he wrote campaigns against so many pashtun tribes and Swatis are one amongst them. Haider khan10 (talk) 05:44, 16 August 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs)

Never to miss a page number 62 of a book called "Tazkara the reality of pashtuns and their history" written by Khan Roshan Khan in 1982. Haider khan10 (talk) 06:06, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

He had clearly mentioned Swatis Lodhis Suris Ghaljis and their tribal confederacy, thats just for you brother to satisfy yourself. Haider khan10 (talk) 06:14, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Do you are answering the point Swatis are Pashtuns culturally only as you yourself said ?????? Azmarai76 (talk) 08:24, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Okay, but you claim half of them speak Hindko should I write about them they non Swatis now ???? Azmarai76 (talk) 09:02, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

if half of them speak hindko, even then their mother tongue is pashto, speak pashto at homes but if any of Swati Pashtun forgotten Pashto then ho would be certainly called Pathan rather than Pashtun. . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 10:19, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

and pls dont try to put your words in my mouth brother, i have a very clear concept what great Pashtuns are!. . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 10:26, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Can you fliter rivers like Ravi Chanab, Kabul, Swat, Kunhar and othere etc, from the great river Indus, answer would be certainly no...same like this with the passages of time tribes or clans intermingled assimilated in Pashtun people, whatever their origins were...dont you think it is impossible to filter now !!!!. . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 11:02, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

I will keep myself to question whether Swatis who don't speak Hindko aren't Swatis ... don't equate the term Swatis with Pashtuns... Are Hindko speaking ones amongst you non Swatis if speaking Pashto is something that makes a person Pashtun????? How can person forget his mother tongue???? Azmarai76 (talk) 12:55, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Limit yourself to the points I mentioned above and follow the Wikipedia standards do we are able to sum  up the debate..... Azmarai76 (talk) 12:57, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Please limit yourself else I will call in more editors questioning you reliability of the sources that you are quoting again. Azmarai76 (talk) 13:21, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

I still can feel great personal grudges against Swati Pashtuns inside you...that won't make Swatis non-pashtuns. I will advice you to learn great Pashto language that does matters, because you are the one who forgot his own language and now a master in great Persian language...am i right??? Pls stop jumping around just tell me that what is wrong to accept great researchers like Khan Roshan Khan and Syed Bahadur Shah zafer kaka khel??? Haider khan10 (talk) 20:42, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

pls brother try to understand that i beleive in tribal view which contains language customs land etc. Haider khan10 (talk) 20:58, 16 August 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs)

Do you think I would ignore any factor before saying Swatis are a race of Pashtunized Dehqan origins ( not literally farmers). Azmarai76 (talk) 21:40, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

What Roshan Khan wrote you in his books was simple non Pashtuns who would speak dari.

Bahadur Shah Kakakhel is even worse revisit his book I'm sure you won't like his view about yourself. Azmarai76 (talk) 21:43, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

first you were not accepting Khan roshan khan and zafer kaka khel but now thanks God atleast you are tilting again....i have posted page nos alo so don't tell me what Roshans view about the great Swatis and Ghalji Pashtuns etc, I m agreed to Zafer Kaka khel views regarding Pashtuns. I am sorry wikipedia cant go with your liks and disliks...you have shown personal grudges against my tribe and posted derogatroy remarks intentionaly so "ka ta ma namaney za ta na manam !!!! Qissa khatam. *S*   Haider khan10 (talk) 03:10, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Dont miss to read a book of Samiullah Jan on great Pashtuns ! Haider khan10 (talk) 03:17, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

stop relying on folklores like niamatullah hirvi, who had tried to appease Khan e Jahan Lodhi, which comprised of fictional stoties mostly !!!!! Haider khan10 (talk) 03:24, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Your just trying to filter river Ravi, river Chanab, river Jhalum, river kabul, river Kunhar and river Swat etc, out of the the great River of Indus, all of them are intermingled commingled and assimilated now in great river !!!! Haider khan10 (talk) 03:39, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia isn't going with anyone's likes dislikes.... if asking for what I asked for before. Azmarai76 (talk) 05:08, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

My questions still remain intact as before please answer those so we can sum up the debate Azmarai76 (talk) 05:50, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

i had replied you all, kindly see with full concentration what i have been posting earlier all the time. . Haider khan10 (talk) 09:25, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

You have just been saying things without replying what I asked for

Yo admitted Swatis aren't Bettanis nor descending from qais but only half of them have adopted Pashto.

Please quote reference to that effect. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:33, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

That's all I am looking for..... nothing more. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:51, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Arbitrary break for readability and accessibility 3
,, I see discussion is heading towards a constructive argument. I request you both to be more humble while discussing and be up on Wikiquettes. Set aside your personal affiliations and grudges because we are here to build encyclopedia WP:BUILDWP.

Secondly as to discussion above, I want to add up on points of being Pashtunized, culturally and language wise. As to Qais Abdur Rasheed and origin of Pashtuns, this itself is a disputed story so cannot be taken as a vital point. Being culturally Pashtuns makes sense but origin remains as it is, so if it is Tajik then be it. About Hindko speaking Swatis, most of them speak it as their first language in Hazara. In some parts like Baffa, Torghar and Battagram they speak Pashto as first language but majority since lives in Mansehra, Balakot areas and they speak Hindko as mother tongue. USaamo (t@lk) 10:59, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

I agree with you friend so shall we not intorduce this tribe as Pashtunized tribe or Tajik race also recorded as Deggans or Dehqans.

But I dont see any reason why our friend thinks its an insult or derogatory to his people. Azmarai76 (talk) 11:38, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

At the same time our friend did change even the article as Swatis are descendants of Qais even. Azmarai76 (talk) 11:42, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I concur with this proposal and there's no reason to receive it as insult or derogation. He himself talked of them as being Pashtuns culturally which in other words is Pashtunized. As to his satisfaction we can make it further broad by mentioning Pashtun origin in the article as well along with Dehqan origin since there are some sources for that as well. USaamo (t@lk) 11:50, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Well even that isn't acceptable to them as they have constantly making these as Yusufzais, Bettanis proper and deleting what others have written about them in classical books that shaped the agrarian society in Pakistan rather would just keep books printed after 1960. Azmarai76 (talk) 12:02, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

I propose the following " identify themselves as Pashtuns but are Pashtunized Tajiks of Dehqan race."

This is how I would sum it up. Azmarai76 (talk) 12:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

I had asked you for countless times that if you are ready to accept tribes like ghaljis lodhis suris ghoris marwats bungash etc as non pashtun tribes then i will do whatever you want to solve the swati pashtun issue with mutual consent. All the above said tribes were intermingled assimilated with pashtuns people, according to authors in which you shown full faith, so as swatis through culture customs land and language???

Another precious point is that i have been discussing the issue for so many years but couldnt get any proper reply even here...Great Karlanis was an adopted son not a real one and thats for sure belongs to another race, then why will you reckoned them as pashtuns. Now the great ghaljis as per your historians were the offsprings from a turk prince so why would you accept them as pashtuns, according to your logics they are pashtunized also were great turks, if you believe in patrimonial view only...now its up to you to sum up this issue to accept all the above said tribes as pashtunized and will have to add Persianized tribe for Abdalis also?????? . Haider khan10 (talk) 18:13, 17 August 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs) 17:28, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes and I guess I have told you many a time the tribes you mentioned intermingled with Afghans since very long almost since the times not even recorded.

While in case of this tribe under discussion they were Pashtunized only nothing more than 500 to 400 back.

Moreover, while the other tribes you are mentioning again and again served the common cause with Afghans and Pashtuns while Swatis were never part of any such campaign rather they are recorded to have been in the opposite camp to Afghans and Pashtuns.

Lastly, all those tribes consider each other as kindred tribes not something they displayed for Swatis. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:36, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

will azmarai reckoned himself as persianized pashtun as he dosnt know single word of Pashto but master in great persian language and why wud he takes it derogatory remarks, Persians has a rich history, pashtuns are said to be an estern Iranian tribe also... Qais Abdur Rasheed and origin of Pashtuns is itself  a disputed story so cannot be taken as a serious view, books on patrimonial view is considered to be the most weakest one as far as the origin of great Pashtuns concerned....I m asking him again will he suffix all Karlanis Batanis as non Pashtuns as he had posted for batani tribes as pashtunized so go do it, problem will be solved.. . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 18:42, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Abdali for your info not them alone but many others also Persian culture but only a portion of it .... and they are still considered Pashtuns due to the fact it's not been more than 300 years this phenomenon of persianization has come up for them. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:43, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Why not may be with passage of more time the definition for Abdalis may also change but it will how much time that I don't know..... that doesn't give you the right to be called Bettanis, Yusufzais or Pashtuns. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:46, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

The same yardstick for both Swatis and Abdalis too little time for Swatis to be called Pashtuns and too little time for Abdalis to be called persianized pashtuns .. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:48, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

I guess I could still clear your mind about BiBi Matu's husband he wasn't Turk prince but one called Shah Hussain Ghori..... and Ghoris weren't Turks. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:51, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

The rest as I saw this article it was what giving all info required as to who Swatis are while User: Haseeb Jadoon has always been against the idea of even labelling you guys as Pashtunized Tajiks.... just yesterday you were saying Jadoons are same as us. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:55, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Alhumdullillah all pashtun tribe including Swati Pashtuns are kindred to each pther, there is no conflict amongst us. You have just accepted the value of assimilation intermingled like rivers swat qabul kunhar chanab ravi jhelum diluted in great river Indus, thats good but who are you to decide long assimilation and short assimilation...what a rediculous reply.. . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 19:04, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Do you even know the subject ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 19:07, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Why did they expel you out of Swat ??

Why weren't you allowed to join Pathan regiment of the British Indian Army??

Why do still not consider you part of any of their four Confederates...... my replies are really correctly placed. Don't worry.... the more you are arguing the more you are weakening your stance...... Azmarai76 (talk) 19:10, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

If your tribe is so open .... to accept anyone you must be ready to enrol anyone with you I'm sure but it doesn't happen with Pashtuns. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:12, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

These rivers you are mentioning again would define Swatis as all humans are Swatis as they all descend from Adam as Pashtuns do therefore, Swatis are Pashtuns..... you are making it funny. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:19, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Jama e asp tura asp na Joe mekoni fehmidi..... Azmarai76 (talk) 19:22, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Find yourself balochis or some other..... and start calling yourself by that name but Wikipedia is academic forum where your wishes don't matter. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:25, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Nor mine.... just articles should be correct academically. Fehmida shudi ya dega ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 19:27, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Dont jumpimg around now, just stay with your words only.....you are reply less now. *S*.. . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 19:50, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

afsos da che farsi dy izda kra khoa apkhpala jaba dy hera kra.. فارسي د ايځده کړه خو اښپله ژبه د هيره کړه ۔ Haider khan10 (talk) 19:50, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

I am replying what you ask I will repeat

1. The same yardstick for both Swatis and Abdalis too little time for Swatis to be called Pashtuns and too little time for Abdalis to be called persianized pashtuns ..

Azmarai76 (talk) 19:59, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Is it clear now .... bachagak e qomandam Azmarai76 (talk) 20:00, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Btw consensus has been reached .... I'm not someone "who has been reduced to such distress that he has forgotten his identity of race" not my words in commas but McGregor about Swatis. Azmarai76 (talk) 20:03, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

I remain and respect my words..... won't let you do disruptive editing to Pashtun pages anymore..... Azmarai76 (talk) 20:05, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

But I saw changing your stance again and again, just keep moving with your previous views about batanis and others like your term "pashtunised", by the way i will appreciate you for your great persian languag.. . . . . په اس جامو کښ خر مه ګرځه Haider khan10 (talk) 20:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Stay cool brother...and be happy and be pashtunised as you are persianised now. *S*  Haider khan10 (talk) 21:16, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

علم د ښه سړي نه ډير ښه او ده بد سړي نه ډير بد جوړوي !۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ . . . .try to translate it. . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 21:27, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

One more Pasho proverb for you only. عزت کوه عزت به دي کيږي. . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 21:36, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Consensus has been reached in your cyber dreams only....stay cool and persistant. Haider khan10 (talk) 21:46, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Please leave it one who knows the tribe and let me edit it. Btw they are tajiks like many other others got pashtunized like Shilamnis Bangashes, Sheranis, Mishwanis, Marwats, Niazi, Lodhi, Suris so better omit them all from list of tribes. Azmarai76. who posted it????? Haider khan10 (talk) 22:01, 17 August 2020 (UTC) نور په ګته مه پټوه ـ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ Haider khan10 (talk) 22:06, 17 August 2020 (UTC)۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔

Now feel the difference .. ,پښتون چه پښتو نه لري ځمکه دي پري ړکه شي Haider khan10 (talk) 22:55, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Only culturally to which also you added more here to our knowledge that most of them speak Hindko also .... We need consensus here at Cyber as I have understood your claim is weak and only on Wikipedia. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:05, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Wish you could even repeat the words written in Tazkira about you that even takes it to the worse. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:08, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Secondly, why were you claiming a few days back they are from the line of Qais, from Bettanis while some editors amongst you have even tried to make you Yusufzais........ all I look for is Wikipedia the rest your situation was summarized well by McGregor, " Afghans have reduced them to such distress that they have forgotten the identity of race". ...... I don't blame you but won't let you become Pashtuns on Wikipedia....... bacha e mosh Nasal e ablak mekhawahi Azmarai76 (talk) 04:17, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

All I am looking for is to keep Wikipedia protected of people who are making edits everywhere just to look Pashtuns...... I wish I could help you but I am for those readers who use this resource for knowledge and can't leave it unattended. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I would again tell you to remain limited to the topic... yo have almost done :-

1. Names of all rivers

2. Quoted only two or three sources to your claim written prior to 1960s and printed by printers and unauthentic.

3. Tried to do poetry.

Don't think you will keep making edits without reason as Wikipedia is free. Else, you would have long been sleeping now. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:32, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis are humans as Pashtuns are therefore they are Pashtuns that all you could assert till now. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:37, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Answer these :-

1. You said yourself Swatis are Pashtuns culturally.

2. Therefore, who can you overlook authentic sources and make then Pashtuns now in 2020.

3. You have been trying to make sure to make them Bettanis at Bettani page and main Pashtuns page at Wikipedia.

4. If Swatis are Bettanis which subtribe of Bettanis are they from be specific so we see if you are really recorded such anywhere.

5. I can see McGregor was write about you.

6. Denzil Ibettson hasn't proposed Indian origin for others but for few like those living away from Pashtun heartland like you. Azmarai76 (talk) 05:07, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Do bring some sources that are written prior to 1960s like I have been repeatedly requesting for..... all the sources you quoted are unauthentic but still have been covered in this article. But can't make you a Pashtun I will suggest to look at who aren't Pashtuns as humans as good as you. Azmarai76 (talk) 05:15, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't expect any gentleman to go back on his words like you are doing now that this tribe is Pashtun by culture to which also I have told you hundred times that something you call Pashtun culture is what all share commonly even, Tajiks, Aimaqs, Hazara and Uzbeks. Azmarai76 (talk) 05:22, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Lastly, Swatis have been tested genetically also and have been found unlike Bettanis or Yusufzais that's what you have to look at also..... they match none of the tribes you want to be part of. Sorry..... Azmarai76 (talk) 05:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I am expecting numbered replies so we understand what makes you think they are Pashtuns which many of you without any source even changed to Swatis are Afghans. Azmarai76 (talk) 05:41, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

m telling you now and had told you for so many times about a book Tazkara of Khan Roshan Khan with page numbers also and another book of Fazal Mehmood Khan "Swati Pashhun"....please dont thrust your words on us, stay cool and behave like pashtuns rather than a persinized men...Stay with your words now as you said for so many Pashtun tribes...and who gave you the authrority to filter references according to your choices in a childish way like prior and after 60s !!!!

Please leave it one who knows the tribe and let me edit it. Btw they are tajiks like many other others got pashtunized like Shilamnis Bangashes, Sheranis, Mishwanis, Marwats, Niazi, Lodhi, Suris so better omit them all from list of tribes. Azmarai76

ژبه ده عقل تله ده۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔Haider khan10 (talk) 06:05, 18 August 2020 (UTC) ۔ ۔

Pashto man Pashto is the key ! Be Pakhtun or stay Pathan...smile now Haider khan10 (talk) 06:16, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I am a Durrani but is this article about me ??? Answer the questions above so we reach some conclusion. Azmarai76 (talk) 06:32, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

What about those who don't have this "key" pashto like in your own tribe let's considers them non Swatis ...... cry Azmarai76 (talk) 06:34, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Also let's add those speaking Pashto in Laghman as their first language to the list of Pashtuns as they have the "key" .... Azmarai76 (talk) 06:36, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Weep now Azmarai76 (talk) 06:36, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Just limit yourself to the subject being discussed alone. No arguments for the sake of arguement. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:13, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis are just Pushtuns culturally in your words that equates with Pashtunized. Azmarai76 (talk) 12:08, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Sweet Heart .. every tribe whose mother tongue is pashto is pashtun and sorry to say people like you who has no connection with pashto anymore are rohilla sulemani pathan afgan khurasani but not pashtun tkmhats for sure...smile pls ! pashto is a key mr abdali persianized !!! Go learn some pashto and say sorry to every pashtun for your blunders to understand pashtuns. Swatis are Pashtuns due to their flourished land language culture and customs, as I told you before as same as the GREAT GHALJIS KARLANIS with so many others, all these are printed well in the books written by western authors....smile again !!!!. . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 15:08, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Really what about those who speak Hindko amongst Swatis ??? Are Gujjars with Pashto as first language Pashtuns??? Neemcha find yuk yourself another line we don't consider you Pashtuns nor are you recorded so anywhere in history rather just try desperately to be part of us...... I am sorry but if the acedemic framework had that kind of liberty I would have let you become Pashtun.

I understand since Pashtuns are respectable and numerous you want to be part of it and hide your origins as recorded in Imperial Gazetteers..... time for you to weep. But a pashtun is born like is the case with any other community. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:31, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

It's your habit since very long to always want to be called Pashtuns something without proof or genealogical table. Even you were left with no choice but to write yourselves Pashtuns in self written books. This isn't something that will help you.... weep more... Azmarai76 (talk) 15:34, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Bacha e qomandan fehmidi you are not Pashtun rather a community living way away from Pashtun society..... whining is at least decrease the heartburn. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:36, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I will again tell you Pashtuns are simply those people who are either Sarbarnis, Karlanris, Bettanis or Ghorghusts while you belong to none. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:39, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Keep trying over Wikipedia internet even I think you won't even be acceptable to Tajiks but we have no other choice to write you such as you have been recorded as such in history books. Maybe Gujjars or rajputs will accept you but that too is doubted. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:43, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Cry brother as I understand how narrative building for elevation of status is common in some parts of the world. Need a tissue ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 15:45, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I am asking you questions that you avoid and typing so much is just for the record here how much desperate you people are to fiddle with Wikipedia in an attempt to elevate your status. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:47, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Cry..... Azmarai76 (talk) 15:49, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

1.Hazara Gazetteer: Swatis aren't afghans /Pashtuns

2. The Pathans Olaf Caroe " Swatis aren't Pashtuns".

3. Denzil Ibettson: Castes of Punjab "Swatis aren't Pashtuns"

4. Hayat e Afghan " Swatis are Dehqans"

5. Khursheed e Jahan: " Swatis aren't Pashtuns"

6. Military Papers: Cis Indus Swatis are non Afghan race also called Deggans".

7. Tribes of Hindukush by Biddulph: " Swatis are neemchas of non Pashtun race".

8. Hafiz Rehmat Khani by Roshan Khan(your champion ) "Swatis were the people who would speak dari."

9. Black Mountain Expedition: " Swatis arenot Afghans and didn't display bravery in these campaigns and Gorkha regiment burnt a fortress in Allai area in this campaign.

Many more all verifiable online. Azmarai76 (talk) 16:09, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Weep Azmarai76 (talk) 16:10, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

You aren't doing anything but make give out resources that will here forever and weaken your own case......... so be pragmatic. Answer the questions I had asked above so we reach a conclusion. Azmarai76 (talk) 16:13, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis are Pashtuns according to so many authors like Khan Roshan Khan, Samiullah Jan, and Fazal Mehmood Khan...Western authors described so many Pashtun tribes as non pashtuns, but allied to them with long association in culture custom land and language, so they mentioned Swatis also in a same manner as well, same like GREAT GHALJIS BATANIS and KARLANIS were deacribed also....Respeptable Gujars have their mother tongue gojri and if they speak pashto, then they extreme better than you who forgotten his mother tongue and now called a persianized people?????!now smile again.. . . Haider khan10 (talk) 16:40, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

You mean those who don't speak Pashto amongst you aren't Swatis ????

Dont mention Roshan Khan have written you as Pashtuns .... rather he has written to non pashtuns in Tarikh Hafiz Rehmat Khani. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:37, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Mention when were other two story books are mentioning were written??? Printing date etc. ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 17:38, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Date of printing and where were these printed will be enough..... Azmarai76 (talk) 17:40, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

You better classify yourselves as Gujjars refer to Govensky. Weep Azmarai76 (talk) 17:43, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Your race changed with affiliation with Afghans in your own words above. This is exactly what we have been saying pashtunized tajiks...... not pashtuns per se..... weep that you say all yourself and then deny it. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:50, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Hahaha.... you can deny but can't hide..... this is exactly what we have.been.telling you since long. Pashtunized tajik race also known as Dehqans.

It's not only western authors but even Abdul Hai Habibi, Doctor Lateef Yaad and Hewadmal all Pashtun Afghan nationalist scholars has written about you in one manner or other. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:55, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

it was witten yesterday or thousand years back, in front of me all these books are authentic resources...see my last reply in which many pashtun were also written as assimilated like pashtun tribe Swati also in a same way..remember that yard stick you persinized man and dont ask me such fool questions, just read in between the lines. You jumpimg too much just tell me about GREAT GHALJIS BATANIS AND KARLANIS, what they had their views about them including SWATI PASHTUNS.. . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 17:57, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I had told you be Pashtun again you persianized Abdali man.........Haider khan10 (talk) 18:03, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

ځه ساده پښنون يمه ځه ساده انسان يمه۔ ۔    Haider khan10 (talk) 18:14, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Dont mention Roshan Khan have written you as Pashtuns .... rather he has written to non pashtuns in Tarikh Hafiz Rehmat Khani.

Mention when were other two story books are mentioning were written??? Printing date etc. ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 18:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

So we check ??? Azmarai76 (talk) 18:25, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Roshan Khan Roshan in Tazkara page no 62 as he mentions lodhis suris swatis and khiljis are from Batanis (hope will get yourself cool by it). A book "Swati Pashtun", the whole book is on Swatis by Fazal Mehmood Khan. Another book Teqikul Afghan by Samiullah Jan. Pakhtun Qabail a book by Kamran Azam Sohadarvi. A book History of Hazara by Dr Sher Bahadur Khan Panni. Tarikhe hafiz rehmat khani was translated by Khan Roshan Khan, he wasnt a writer!!!! now please smile persianized man. Haider khan10 (talk) 21:09, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

علم د ښه سړي نه ډير ښه او ده بد سړي نه ډير بد جوړوي ....... Haider khan10 (talk) 21:15, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

يو به مړ نه شي بل به موړ نه شي۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ Haider khan10 (talk) 21:22, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

چه وس د رسي ګزاره کوه ګزار مه کوه

Haider khan10 (talk) 02:02, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for copying and pasting but if you tell us when were the other two group printed so we can check them ??? I ask you a question and answer is Swatis aren't Pashtuns  but consider them Pashtuns.

Give detail of the books you are talking about I will check them to see what's there. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:21, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * books Azmarai76 (talk) 04:22, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Who is the writer of the Tarikh I Hafiz Rehmat Khan was Hafiz Rehmat Khan Barech .... but Khawaja Matuzai and according to some sources Khan Gaju.

Give detail of the books you are talking about I will check them to see what's there. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:25, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

"Teqikul Afghan" but you have been telling me all along that you weren't Afghan rather Pashtun ??? How can a book on Swatis be Tehqikul Afghan if your claim isn't that of being an Afghan?????????????? Azmarai76 (talk) 04:29, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

So now you are even denying what your claim was all along that you were just Pashtun and not Afghan and now telling me some book that's  written  on Swatis and named, Tehqiq ul Afghan ??????????????????????????? Hahaha Azmarai76 (talk) 04:39, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Anyway give details of these books so all can see what's written there ..... I hope you will Azmarai76 (talk) 04:46, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Anyway give details of these books so all can see what's written there ..... I hope you will Azmarai76 (talk) 04:46, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

All I want is at least some info that's factually correct not otherwise. Azmarai76 (talk) 05:03, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

As far as your time and again advice for me to become a Pashtun and leave Persian isn't possible for me as noone change his/her communial identity every now and then like you are doing a person is born with it..... you have changed your claim of being Pashtun to Afghan now just here in this discussion........ that's not the case with normal humans. Azmarai76 (talk) 05:12, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Copying and pasting ... are you awake ???? Go see and check page no 402 in book Pashtun Qabail by Kamran Azam sohadravi..smile   Haider khan10 (talk) 10:46, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

The whole book is on Swati Pashtuns by Falzal Mehmood Khan, just go and check. Haider khan10 (talk) 10:46, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Tareek hafiz is written by someone else then why did you code Khan Roshan Khan???? (nonetheless i was well aware who has written it) don't justify your blunders. Haider khan10 (talk) 10:46, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Teqikul afghan is a book name written by Samiullah Jan and he described Pashtuns in it. Haider khan10 (talk) 10:46, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

I know you will never accept my request to learn pashto but I will keep trying to get you out of your persianized world. Haider khan10 (talk) 10:46, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

چه پړ شه نو مړ شه۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ Haider khan10 (talk) 10:55, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Do you think great pashtun tribes like Ghaljis Suris lodhis Ghoris Marwats even whole of Batanis and Great Karnalis were Pashtunized as westen writers told us????? Haider khan10 (talk) 11:29, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Fluency in Pashto is often the main determinant of group acceptance as to who is considered a Pashtun. (copy and pasted).. . . Haider khan10 (talk) 11:49, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

I had just asked for book names with printing dates and printers name if possible so it can be verified??? If you just give those out I will search the rest.

I am however suspicious of your claim that the book that is called Tehqul Afghan has discussed Pashtuns??? As you have yourself saying Swatis are just Pashtuns...... not me but you suggested that Pashtuns are different than Afghans remember??? However, give dates to these books for easy access..... Bacha e qomandan ... biraqsa va sor bitaa... Azmarai76 (talk) 11:52, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Hope the Sindbaad and his adventures are coming next. Hahaha Azmarai76 (talk) 11:57, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

I guess you still are confused about what acedemics think about Swatis " race that is Pashtunized Tajiks earlier know as Dehqans race with a portion of the tribe speaking Pushto."

While you want to make them

Bettanis or Yusufzais or descendants of Qais which isn't nowhere near the fact. Did you get my point now???? Azmarai76 (talk) 12:01, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

That's something  we call not originally Pashtuns or Afghans..... but a few of them speaking Pashto. Azmarai76 (talk) 12:02, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

At the same time you want to hide the factual origin of the tribe also by editing the article Azmarai76 (talk) 12:11, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Anyway books name with authors and printers and year of printing that you are banking on so I can look for them.

Azmarai76 (talk) 13:24, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, there is nothing left now to be discussed anymore, because all we have to do is "Swatis are a Pashtun tribe....and then we can edit like they are of Ghori-Tajik orign under the headings of Descent and Origin, it will be like other Pashtun tribes are defined". Regards  Haider khan10 (talk) 09:05, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, Tell him not to believe in mythical geneology please...........Haider khan10 (talk) 22:44, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Arbitrary break for readability and accessibility 4
Oky guys, I see no flexibility in your stances... We all are wasting so much time which can be used to get this encyclopedia better, so here I come up with a neutral solution if you both agree. We are going to add both the accounts you people have for origin. What do you say, ?? Based on this proposal, the article's lede will be somewhat like:

USaamo (t@lk) 14:06, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

I agree and this what I have always been saying but the fellow and his brothers come and make them Bettanis or Yusufzais.

I concur with the above statement you have given. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:39, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Even if one doesn't agree with Pashtun origin but there are sources for it so we have to mention it along as I stated above. Mentioning Pashtun origin addresses 's stance as well so I think he should have no objection to it now. USaamo (t@lk) 14:49, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Well that we have to see Azmarai76 (talk) 14:51, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

But this has been going on since ages now.... that effects not this page alone but they make sure to make pertinent changes to main Pashtun page and Bettani page which others have to fix again and again. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:54, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * We'll see what could be done for that. For now let's get this solved first!
 * Also for you both when you write a reply add a colon : at start and then write comment. Similarly for second reply two colons :: and then comment and for third three colons ::: and so on.... For more watch this video projection at 1:25 Indentation Help:Talk pages. This makes conversation better understandable. Thanks USaamo (t@lk) 15:18, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

All sources are mentioned even I personally don't think them as credible but I really don't know why is our friend here against what is history written before 1960s. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:33, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Agree to indentation suggestion also but normally you forget when you get into a useless arguements where none of your questions are even replied. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:36, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

let me suggest you to sum up this issue brother USaamo " Swatis are a tribe in north Pakistan region, they are of Pashtun origin, while some historians descibed them of Degan Tajik origin as well, however Swatis are regarded as culturally Pashtuns adopting Pashtunwali due to long association with them. Swatis are divided into three great clans Gabri, Mamyali, and Mitravi.According to historians they captured upper Hazara in 1703, like Mansehra, Battagram Aallai and eatern slopes of Black Mountain. Majority of them speak Pashto but in places like Mansehra town, Kagan, Naran, Balakot they speak hindko also. Those living in Malakand speak Pashto.". . .  . . .  Haider khan10 (talk) 16:45, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

USaamo brother, im from Mansehra distt and a pashto speaking Pashtun and more than a million of my tribesmen speak their mother tongue Pashto around in the mountains and valleys so its impossible to ignore such a large pashto speaking tribe.. .  Haider khan10 (talk) 16:45, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo I concur with what you have written due to the fact majority of the historians have regarded Swatis of Dehgan race not few. Rather a few books written after 60s have mentioned probable Pashtun origin not definite. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:27, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * therefore, mentioning this tribe as Pashtun first without any reason and keeping doubtful origin as priority is something that would be misleading for those who use this forum for learning. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:30, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I will mention a few again

1. Hazara Gazetteer 2. Gazetteer of Bannu Distt. 3. Military papers by George Scott. 4. Tribes of Hinduskush by Biddulph 5. Notes on Afghanistan and Baluchistan by Maj. Raverty 6. An inquiry into Ethnography of Afghanistan 7. The Kingdom of Cauble by Elphistone 8. Hayat I Afghan 9. Khurshid e Jahan 10. The Pathans by Olaf Caroe 11. Khulasat ul Ansaab 12. Bahar Ansaab 13. Who's who in Malakand 14. History of Afghans by Dorn B. 15. Qabeelaha e Pashtun by Dr. Lateef yaad. 16. Tareekh e Mukhtasir Afghanistan by Abdul Hai Habibi 17. History of Pashtuns by Brig. Haroon ur Rasheed Bangash. 18. Mughal chronicles 19. GGOs from the British Raj era.

All are very sure of their Pashtunized Tajiks of Dehqan origins..... Azmarai76 (talk) 18:48, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * a tribe is identified with the area that is considered it's inherited abode therefore do mention Hazara as you have done as Swatis don't have tribal inheritance out of Hazara. Thanks Usaamo. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:52, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * not to forget I am Durrani of Popalzai subsection and know what is needed to be known of the area where "Bar Durranis" actual Pashtuns live. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:02, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

USaamo Brother, first of all a book "Tareekh e Hazara" written by Dr Sher Bahadur Khan Panni. A book "Tazkara" by Roshan Khan Roshan. A book "Swati Pakhtun" by Fazal Mehmood Khan. A book "Tehqikul Afghan" by Samiullah Jan. A book "Pashtun Qabail" by Kamran Azam sohadarvi. A book "Campaigns on the North West Frontier", (campigns against Pashtun tribes, Swatis amongst them) by Captain H.L Nevill. According to all western historians Swatis always returned themselves as Pashtuns and they have always been discussed on Pashtun pages and books as they intermigled assimilated amongst them, point is as same as Ghlajis Karlanis and so many other tribes been discussed of some other races like turkish or indian origin eastern Iranian origin have commingled assimilated in Pashtuns. Regards:       Haider khan10 (talk) 21:06, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I can post many tribes had bee discussing in books by western historians as non Pashtuns but accepted as Pashtuns due to their long time association with them.       Haider khan10 (talk) 21:12, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo I just wanted you to show what is happening here..... and I guess I have exposed much. Azmarai76 (talk) 21:09, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Brig. Haroon Rashid in Volume VI of his book History of Afghans has commented well on the book Tehqikul Afghan by one Samiullah Jan. In that book printed in 1963 the author has proposed a pedigree for Swatis for having been descended from one person, ( something which for last many days has been called "fables" ) if so this book shouldn't even be given as reference. Azmarai76 (talk) 21:14, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo I fully concur with your proposed wording as it's factual position. Azmarai76 (talk) 21:16, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

I have mine personal views on some issues ... it dosn't mean i couldnt get reference out of it !!!! Haider khan10 (talk) 21:26, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I will take whatever goes in my favour.      Haider khan10 (talk) 21:28, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * that's why I started this thread Usaamo bro self hate exists but as a Pashtun I have the right to defend my traditions which are fables for others and desperately drool for it. However, I then have enough noble blood in my veins to think about millions who use these resources for learning and have to ensure to keep it correct and not misleading. Azmarai76 (talk) 21:44, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Some people don't care about encyclopedia and their users.... Azmarai76 (talk) 21:46, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo bro I hope you have the better picture of what is happening and why. Azmarai76 (talk) 21:48, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis are a tribe in north Pakistan region, mostly inhabiting cis-Indus Hazara Division of Khyber PakhtunKhwa Province. they are of Pashtun origin, while some historians descibed them of Degan Tajik origin as well, however Swatis are regarded as culturally Pashtuns adopting Pashtunwali due to long association with them. Swatis are divided into three great clans Gabri, Mamyali, and Mitravi.According to historians they captured upper Hazara in 1703, like Mansehra, Battagram Aallai and eatern slopes of Black Mountain. Majority of them speak Pashto but in places like Mansehra town, Kagan, Naran, Balakot they speak hindko also. Those living in Malakand speak Pashto.". . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 21:49, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo I will go with your wording as it's racially, culturally, historically and socially correct. Azmarai76 (talk) 21:52, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo onething more this tribe is no longer anywhere on the Eastern slope of the Black Mountain as it was evicted by the British from those locations after Third Campaign of the Black Mountain against the Yusufzais and the fact was recorded as part of the Gazetteers in the following workings, " stronger Afghans have encroached upon weaker Swatis". Therefore, make no mistake each and every detail stands recorded. Azmarai76 (talk) 21:57, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * similarly capturing Hazara is again too much of a claim anyone can make. Swatis are known to be aggressors only Mansehra Tehsil of then Hazara distt. A fact again recorded almost everywhere, whatever I have said can be verified online. Azmarai76 (talk) 22:01, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

brother USaamo, more than a million of my tribes men speak Pashto and follow pashtunwali and all the sub-tribes and khels are tied up in one knot and that is a Pashtun Taroon. Haider khan10 (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

جرنده که د پلار ده خو په وار ده ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ Haider khan10 (talk) 22:15, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo noone could've summed up the discourse as better as you. The rest can be sentimental but not factual and acedemic approach. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:13, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I have found your definition very much in line with what's been recorded and reported as a fact. Thanks Usaamo Azmarai76 (talk) 04:15, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, Swatis are Pashtuns by there culture traditions customs land and language, as same as other great Pashtuns are mentioned in books printed prior 60, such as Ghaljis, Karlanis and many more. Regards: Haider khan10 (talk) 10:07, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo bro it's not an edit war as many thought it was but question of intellectual honesty and integrity. I am really grateful you have been a great help in coming up with a nice description for the tribe. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:18, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo nothing could explain the tribe in question better than your statement and can still see efforts being done to make this piece ambiguous with no value to the readers at all. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:22, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo I will request that this heading Li***** on race is kept on record so all can see how certain agendas are propagated here even ignoring the hard facts. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:25, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

USaamo Brother, Im still shocked how will he justify this paragraph. " thats what he posted "Please leave it one who knows the tribe and let me edit it. Btw they are tajiks like many other others got pashtunized like Shilamnis Bangashes, Sheranis, Mishwanis, Marwats, Niazi, Lodhi, Suris so better omit them all from list of tribes. Azmarai76", he didnt reckoned all the above mentioned tribes as Pashtuns ... ask him why he wants to omit them pashtuns list??? now i will post some references also with page numbers..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs) 10:53, 15 August 2020 (UTC). . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 11:53, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, look at him, tried to edit like a thief. " Seems like the other friend isn't coming.... how to remove the block on the page so I correct it and then request for block...... you have seen him yourself how sound his arguement is. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 17:22, 15 August 2020 (UTC)........Haider khan10 (talk) 12:00, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, kindly have a look on this aslo, "but genetic studies have corroborated the underlying traditional Ghori Tajik origin the greatest Afghan tribal confederacy, the Bettani (Ghalji) – which is in fact now the largest group of Pashtuns and historically the most accomplished". Regards: Haider khan10 (talk) 12:47, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I concur with your wordings that you came up with Usaamo brother...... self hate is the problem. The way you summed it up Usaamo hats off to you. Please also protection is needed for Bettani and the main Pashtun page where not me alone but others are also waiting to ensure only the truth remains the part of these articles. Azmarai76 (talk) 13:41, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Moreover, swatis are RM198, Q, JM172 and LM20 in genetically on Y chromosomal lines ( people have admitted that they don't believe in paternal line but normally Nobel human do care )  ref- ftdna.com Pak Afg group as far as the mitochondrial DNA is concerned they group with Madalashtis and Sust Tajiks (ref- Hemphill). Again not in accordance with the genetic lines found in Bettanis or Niazis. Azmarai76 (talk) 13:47, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo bro words like thief are better suited for people who try to become something they aren't born. Azmarai76 (talk) 13:51, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I still say Swatis are Pashtunized tajiks and may have adopted ways and culture of Pashtuns but not Pashtuns as they aren't part of any of the four Pashtun Confederates. Azmarai76 (talk) 13:54, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo bro read George Scott he has written in detail about some people doing menial services for the Chief of Swati in the independent territory. It's not directly related to the subject being discussed here but marvellous description. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:04, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo bro your summarized description is great just like classic writers. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:09, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Well I'm not but thanks anyhow! :) USaamo (t@lk) 14:21, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * oky let's for instance we consider your proposal above but I want to raise some points about that...
 * You are proposing to write Pashtun origin for Swatis while you yourself repeatedly mentioned above that they are culturally Pashtun by virtue of their customs, traditions, land and language. How do this amount to their Pashtun origin? More or less it's what being called Pashtunized.
 * You reversed the order in my proposal, I give you a better option to sort this out. Why not decide this on the basis of number of references available for origin. Whichever origin has most references should be mentioned first.
 * Most of Swatis in Hazara division speak Hindko; since majority live in Mansehra district and there in except for Baffa etc, they mostly speak Hindko elsewhere. Baffewals too can speak Hindko along with Pashto. Rest Swatis in Battagaram speak Pashto only but Battagaram's population is less than 1/3rd of Mansehra. So based on this analogy major language among Swatis in Hazara is Hindko.
 * You have taken this dispute so much personal and are coming up with battleground mentality WP:BATTLE. While we are here, our national or ethnic affiliations don't even matter because we are here to build an encyclopedia WP:BUILD. I haven't talked anything about my cast here till now but I'm telling you now to make you realize this. I also belong to this cast and Mansehra is my hometown district. So please don't take these things so much personal. Telling you my personal feelings, having a Persian origin is a sight of relief for getting segregated from Afghans seeing their image in the country in recent years and is even more proud feeling because of a great history but I'm no nationalist and I take these things light. My country's 🇵🇰 identity is enough for me to be proud of. So I request you to consider yourself whatever you think of but always be opened to listen to others. Don't make mockery of whole cast for the sake of your personal alignments. Its oky if you feel proud of Pashtun identity for yourself but don't stonewall facts for the sake of it WP:STONEWALL. You should have pursued this discussion without repeatedly telling about your affiliation with this cast because as I said while you are here on Wikipedia, it doesn't even matter WP:HERE.
 * I hope you'll consider your position after this. Thanks and Regards! USaamo (t@lk) 14:19, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, let me know if im wrong, see this about great Ghaljis in Wikipedi? They consider themselves Pashtuns despite they are of turkic origin. Why to take start like, are a Pashtun trube?

The Ghiljī (Pashto: غلجي‎, pronounced [ɣəlˈd͡ʒi]) also spelled Khilji, Khalji, Ghilzai or Ghilzay (غلزی), are one of the largest tribes of Pashtuns. Their traditional homeland stretches from Ghazni and Qalati Ghilji in Afghanistan eastwards into parts of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Balochistan in Pakistan. They are also settled in other parts of Afghanistan. The modern nomadic Kochi people mostly belong to the Ghilji tribe..

Quick Facts: غلجي, Regions with significant populations ... The Ghilji mostly speak the central dialect of Pashto with transitional features between the southern and northern varieties.

Etymology According to historian C.E. Bosworth, the tribal name "Ghilji" is derived from the name of the Khalaj (خلج) tribe. According to historian V. Minorsky, the ancient Turkic form of the name was Qalaj (or Qalach), but the Turkic /q/ changed to /kh/ in Arabic sources (Qalaj > Khalaj). Minorsky added: "Qalaj could have a parallel form *Ghalaj." The word finally yielded Ghəljī and Ghəlzay in Pashto.

According to a popular folk etymology, the name Ghəljī or Ghəlzay is derived from Gharzay (غرزی; ghar means "mountain" while -zay means "descendant of"), a Pashto name meaning "born of mountain" or "hill people." let me post you something more paste and copy!

Regards. . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 20:54, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Origin

Ghiljis may have descended from the Khalaj people. According to historian C.E. Bosworth, it seems very likely that they Khalaj people of the Gazna formed the core of the Ghilji tribe. who are usually referred to as Turks. The Khalaj were sometimes mentioned alongside Pashtun tribes in the armies of several local dynasties, including the Ghaznavids (977–1186). Many of the Khalaj of the Ghazni and Qalati Ghilji region may have became assimilated into the local Pashto-speaking population and they likely formed the core of the Ghilji tribe. They intermarried with the local Pashtuns and adopted their manners, culture, customs, and practices. Minorsky noted: "In fact, there is absolutely nothing astonishing in a tribe of nomad habits changing its language. This happened with the Mongols settled among Turks and probably with some Turks living among Kurds."

Will you please take notice of it that this tribe also are Pashtuns due to culture customs language etc? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs) 21:01, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, is it true also?

MDS and Barrier analysis have identified a significant affinity between Pashtun,, , and Western Indian populations, creating an Afghan-Indian population structure that excludes the , , and the Dravidian speakers. In addition, gene flow to Afghanistan from India marked by Indian lineages,, , and , also seems to mostly involve Pashtuns and Tajiks. This genetic affinity and gene flow suggests interactions that could have existed since at least the establishment of the region's first civilizations at the and the imdus valley.. . . . .  Haider khan10 (talk) 21:23, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

What will goes wrong if we mutually posted  Swati as Pashtuns first, no need to mention their origin with it and then we can describe their origin also like of Ghrori-Tajik origin, it will be as same as other Paahtun tribes are defined? Regards. Haider khan10 (talk) 21:23, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Thats all what we were talking about. but genetic studies have corroborated the underlying traditional Ghori Tajik origin the greatest Afghan tribal confederacy, the Bettani (Ghalji) – which is in fact now the largest group of Pashtuns and historically the most accomplished. Haider khan10 (talk) 22:02, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Bro USaamo, term Hazerwal is not a tribe, it is applied for the people living there. As far as Swatis Pashto concerned, I still stand with my words that from orush to Mansehra battagram and Malankand, there are more than a million tribsmen whose mother tongue is Pashto and you can't ignore it in anyway! Regards:    Haider khan10 (talk) 22:09, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

که د چا پلار ي خو زمونږ يار ۔ٸ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔Haider khan10 (talk) 23:00, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Just allow me to show Swatis as Pashtuns without their origin first, and then we can defined their origin as Ghori-Tajiks under Descent and Origin?

BETTANI PASHTUN CONFEDERACY AND ITS TAJIK (GHORI) ANTECEDENTS

The Tajik antecedents of a great many now classed as Pashtuns is not something unusual. But in the general intellectually starved environment of our society, it is very little known. It is aknown fact that formerly the largest and the greatest of the four Pashtun tribal onfederations the Bettani Matti (Ghilji or Ghilzai) tribes, by the admission of their own traditions have Tajikand Turkic antecedents. It was these Bettani Afghans who were most closely associated with the Delhi Sultanate, its creation and all stages of its existence, and as such were also closely entwinedwith the Gibari Swatis. Nowadays Gibari-Swati tribes are formally classified among Pashtuns, bybeing included in the Bettani tribal genealogical tree or shajarrah. This classification is mosta ppropriate, given the Tajik antecedents of the Gibaris, being the same as those claimed by the Bettani Matti tribes. The Bettani tribal confederacy of Pashtuns hides many glorious historicalsecrets, being associated with and made up of the Ghoris and Khiljis -- and has produced therenowned Afghan historical colossi such as the Khilji and the Lodi Dynasties of the Delhi Sultanate,and Sher Shah Suri and Mirwais Hotaki not to mention others. Haider khan10 (talk) 01:18, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo, atleast Ghoris have changed from Turk to Tajik finally. Thanks to you. Azmarai76 (talk) 07:22, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo people who care about paternal lines also don't revisit their lines every now and then. Only those who have been recorded in the four Confederates of Pashtuns are Pashtuns and I haven't seen or know if such things are revisited. Else, soon Brahmins would also come up with the claim to be Pashtuns if we go by this yardstick. Azmarai76 (talk) 07:27, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo why and how these Confederates were formed I have been telling again and again they joined together to persue a ""common cause"" . I hope we all understand the term above. While Swatis have been 8n opposite camp to Afghans and Pashtuns ( a fact recorded well in history ). Azmarai76 (talk) 07:31, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * With reference to genetics I would again say that general terms shouldn't be used as affinities through genetics also are matched by comparing STRs and SNPs..... general affinities in genetics doesn't mean racial if not matched on STRs and SNPs but that happens only when someone believes in his paternal line not otherwise. Azmarai76 (talk) 07:34, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks Usaamo if their is still doubt that the effort is just to mislead the serious users of the wikipedia, nothing more and nothing less. Free lunch gets many visitors. Azmarai76 (talk) 07:38, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo I have come across this statement for the first time that someone doesn't believe in the paternal lines .... what would we call such people. Azmarai76 (talk) 07:44, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo people who are of nobles lines don't need to draw analogies like this and Ghoris won't like it either..... Ghoris are part of Tajiks in Afghanistan.

Azmarai76 (talk) 08:57, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo some propositions are really funny. Azmarai76 (talk) 08:59, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Now why are Ghaljis and Matti tribes considered Pushtuns I thought I had explained it well. These tribes have been together helping each other with the common cause ( that I explained earlier also ) since atleast Seljuk's time in Afghanistan and some even before that. Swatis have adopted Pashto of they have just 500 years ago. If they were Pashtuns they would have been listed in some Confederate of Pashtuns. Azmarai76 (talk) 09:06, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, There is nothing left to be discussed now, twisting and jumping from point to another is not a solutioon, all we have to do is " Swatis are Pashtun tribe and then we can edit their origin as Ghori-Tajik under Descent and Origin headings as other Pashtun tribes are defined".. . . Regards. Haider khan10 (talk) 09:19, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo Swatis aren't Pashtuns as they aren't part of the Pashtun Confederates. Other editors from Bettani section are all ready to deal with it their respective pages.... as people believe in paternal lines while here you know what's been repeated time and again. I have started wondering if someone from a community would insult it so much that they don't believe in paternal lines. Wow!!! What a statement to make. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:21, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo I guess you have seen whatelse is destroying the Wikipedia. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:23, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, As you seen now he is trying to thrust his own views now on wikipedia without any proper logic, because he is now failed to reply like Great Ghaljis are Pashtuns because their goals and target were same !!! I haven't seen such a foolish reply on this page so far, Ghaljis are Pashtuns because they speak Pashto and follow Pashtunwali. Regards   Haider khan10 (talk) 10:31, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * this isn't the first time they tried to look Pashtuns here and we decided to counter it with facts. As you know people then make story books for general public and make reference of articles over Wikipedia. Our motive is simply to keep it error free. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:34, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo this concept of "common cause" isn't my own but part " Pashtunwali" recorded by Abdul Hai Habibi, Henry Warburton, Bellew, McGregor, and Hewadmal Sahib. Anyone who would really understand tribal ways of "Pashtunwali" would call it my views. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:38, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Calling serving the common cause as my view is enough to prove how much one knows of the tribal ways. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:41, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, their goals and targets were same, does it sounds ok? Thats why as I said he is twisting and jumping from one point to another.. . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 10:47, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

هلکه باران دٸ راشه چه الامبو۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ Haider khan10 (talk) 10:47, 21 August 2020 (UTC).

Brother USaamo, Thats what I am emphasizing on Pashtun code of honour and Languge, so one who stay with it is Pashtun.. . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 10:52, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo serving the common cause means having same interests and fighting a common enemy. Usaamo if someone who claims to even be knowing Pashtunwali would have such a wrong interpretation of this term...... hilarious Azmarai76 (talk) 11:01, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo did you see even the center around which Pashtunwali revolves isn't known. Azmarai76 (talk) 11:08, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * serving the common cause is speaking Pashto ....hahaha ... that's understable. This happen when you try to become something not born. Azmarai76 (talk) 11:15, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, look at him now, same targets same goals and same enemy also would make him Pashtun by origin !!!! He just want to imposed his personal opinion on Wikipedia, otherwise he should have accepted "assimilation point of view" with open heart as other Pashtun tribes are decribed here. I dont want to laugh anymore like "Commom goals and Common Targets".. . . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 15:36, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

If he cannot speak pashro, he has no rihgt to mention my language like as he posted above !!!!!!. . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 15:36, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

پښتانه خپل مزاج کښ د زمري دي ــــ پښتانه لږ غيرتي لږ ليوني دي۔ ۔ ۔ ۔  Haider khan10 (talk) 16:28, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * hahaha assimilation??? Little change in bio can make one Pashtun. Hilarious.... people don't understand what's being said and what more they are saying against their own community. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:04, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Pashtun customs have been documented even to serve as law on hindustani side of Hindukush I really recommend a read. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:05, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * major difference Pashtuns believe in paternal lines.... Azmarai76 (talk) 17:07, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo bro I guess one can't expose himself more. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:09, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo this phenomenon is also called "zeal of a convert". Azmarai76 (talk) 17:10, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * serving the common cause doesn't mean one has assimilated with others so much that they changed their paternal lines altogether. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:13, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo was li***** on race too much in this situation if I had known would rather have written stronger words. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:16, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * zeal of a convert phenomenon especially the one who still to learn prayers. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:18, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * as far as language is concerned my grand father would speak Pashto but not me anymore but still it belongs to each and every human. This is what I am talking about Usaamo brother zeal of a convert. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:21, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo can a non Pashtun tell a racial Pashtun or anyone it's his language. BIDDULPH,: " it's said neemchas are known for bad pronunciation of Pashtu ". The gentleman travelled 180 or 90 miles on banks of Indus from Derbent to Bhunji while making very detailed notes on these communities. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:26, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * too late for many Usaamo brother, each and every detail has been recorded prior to partition of India and even afterwards. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:29, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * why any author hasn't written they don't go by paternal lines nor do they believe and accord such as : "fables" :) I have no option but to believe it Usaamo brother. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:32, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, I think he is not giving peoper attention, as what I have been posting on this page...I have my personal opinion on paternal view and that's my prerogative, any body can go against it but imposing his views as integral part of this article is so hilarious. Those who counted them in Batani/Ghalji confederation is not me, and does it proves that those were offsprings of qais baba...or don't you think qais baba was just a symbolic progenitor of Pashtuns?? I have posted, some genetic affinity between Swatis and Batani/ghalji also, who came to known as great Pashtuns by the passage of time got commingled.. . . Haider khan10 (talk) 21:03, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo just look what he is posing on my page...."Don't you have a paternal line nor you believe in paternal lines .... Azmarai76 (talk) 10:51, 21 August 2020 (UTC)", tell him post here whatever he want !!!!

USaamo brother, I can teach him Pashto online, i will learn great persian language in return. Haider khan10 (talk) 21:23, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo I am sure what you wrote as description was correct. I have learned that colonial writers were so precise in describing the character of some communities. Azmarai76 (talk) 06:46, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * there is no genetic affinity between Ghaljis as they are Turkic while Bettanis are progeny of Qais. A claim to be Pashtun isn't enough to know that Mattu tribes are descendants of Bibi Matu and not Sheikh Betan. Azmarai76 (talk) 06:50, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo bro I recommend reading History of Pashtuns published a few years ago by a Pakistani stalwart Brig. Haroon ur Rasheed Bangash. It has six volumes with nice commentary on what Pashtun genealogy is like.

Similarly, without having good knowledge of genetic sciences I would recommend that one shouldn't even talk about it as it's a vast field in it's own covering Y chromosomal lines ( that we have decided won't be discussed as to my surprise people don't believe in them. The other is mtdna maternal lines and the third is autosomal DNA. Azmarai76 (talk) 07:03, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo as far as learning Pashto is concerned I am grateful but if I to learn it I have people who can teach me not online as distant learning has it's own weaknesses. Secondly, I am a Popalzai so everyone knows I am a Pashtun while Pashto learning won't get me anything. If I have to learn some language now at this age it would be Arabic as all the old knowledge is recorded in that language. Azmarai76 (talk) 07:12, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I recommend deep study of all volumes of Brig Haroon ur Rasheed Bangash to know Pashtun genealogy ( not Swatis).

I would also suggest not to complain about something we repeat two hundred times here ourself and then when reminded of it we complain. Everyone of us is representative of our respective community therefore should listen to others and comment on a subject only once we have understood and read it to the expert level. Azmarai76 (talk) 07:25, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

The most important shouldn't make edits to Wikipedia as it must be free but helps people get an idea where to look for if one wants to know about a topic. Keep it error free Usaamo brother. Azmarai76 (talk) 07:28, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * further readings written in recent times is by Dr. Ghulam Muhammad Muhammdi from Kabul University on this subject. But the negative about it is the book is written in Persian so those who don't know that language can't understand it. Azmarai76 (talk) 08:34, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, He is just waisting our time because he don't believe in cultural view under which many super pashtun tribes assimilated in them and adopted great pashto. On the other side he only trust in paternal view, because he has forgottten his culture language every thing so the only view suits him is patrimonial view, whereas qais baba was just a symbolic progenitor not a real one so he should call himself a Pathan only, not Pashtun and yes his grandfather was a pashtun but what he would deliver to his offsprings, as i had mentioned earlier that every meeting with Prophet is well written in books and we found nothing regarding a delegation met Prophet under qais!! Genetic affinity is the last nail in the coffin now, as i have posted some references of genetic proves. Regards    Haider khan10 (talk) 11:27, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

There are countless theories about Pashtun origin itself.... Haider khan10 (talk) 11:51, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo even the genetic lines of Swatis are I will repeat again Q, JM172, LM20 and RM198 while those of Bettanis are RM158, Matti tribes are again R1b and even some R star....... they don't match.

The cultural aspect was always kept in mind using "pashtunized" but that again as obvious from the discussion here Swati culture isn't same as Pashtuns.

However, they do try to present pedigree tables linking themselves to Pashtuns ( not my words but what was mentioned by colonial writers and most recent such attempts were commented upon by Brig. Haroon Rasheed and Dr. Ghulam Muhammad Muhammadi. Azmarai76 (talk) 12:18, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I really don't care who they are all I care about is keeping the Wikipedia error free. Why is our friend worried about my kids and Pashtuns. What would he leave for his kids that son we changed our race due to no reason over internet and then writing two story books because we were impressed of Pashtuns and Afghans. Azmarai76 (talk) 12:22, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * pathetic Azmarai76 (talk) 12:23, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I guess he is constantly intentionally ignoring my comments on

Genetics And serving the common cause points. Azmarai76 (talk) 12:31, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I however salute the people who even recorded the minute details of some people in the independent parts as my experience is same as theirs. Azmarai76 (talk) 12:48, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I recommend reading the books above...... and not repeatedly saying we don't believe in paternal lines.... maybe a person can ignore such fact but I haven't heard of such things in Muslim communities anywhere. Azmarai76 (talk) 12:57, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo let me copy and paste again for him." The Tajik antecedents of a great many now classed as Pashtuns is not something unusual. But in the general intellectually starved environment of our society, it is very little known. It is aknown fact that formerly the largest and the greatest of the four Pashtun tribal onfederations the Bettani Matti (Ghilji or Ghilzai) tribes, by the admission of their own traditions have Tajikand Turkic antecedents. It was these Bettani Afghans who were most closely associated with the Delhi Sultanate, its creation and all stages of its existence, and as such were also closely entwinedwith the Gibari Swatis. Nowadays Gibari-Swati tribes are formally classified among Pashtuns, bybeing included in the Bettani tribal genealogical tree or shajarrah . This classification is mosta ppropriate, given the Tajik antecedents of the Gibaris, being the same as those claimed by the Bettani Matti tribes. The Bettani tribal confederacy of Pashtuns hides many glorious historicalsecrets, being associated with and made up of the Ghoris and Khiljis -- and has produced therenowned Afghan historical colossi such as the Khilji and the Lodi Dynasties of the Delhi Sultanate,and Sher Shah Suri and Mirwais Hotaki not to mention others".. . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 13:34, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo bro genetics is the ultimate so be it I have never copied or pasted anything during whole this discourse. Swati genetic lines aren't same as any original or adopted tribe of all four Pashtun Confederates. Azmarai76 (talk) 13:52, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Swatis are Q, JM172, LM20 and RM198 while Bettanis are RM158, and Matti tribes are again R1b and even some R star. Azmarai76 (talk) 13:54, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia can't be Shoor Bazar for dastaan e farhad. Azmarai76 (talk) 13:56, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Dear Usaamo your words are best suited for the description of this community. Azmarai76 (talk) 13:59, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * See ghilzais and Mattis don't hide their origin as turks and Tajiks I see this problem with wardaks, ludin, swatis (the most) and tanoli. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:49, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USasmo now he is getting ready to make a division in between Swati Pashtuns and Tajiks by describing them seperately, how confident was he about genetics but now trying to cover his own blunders....He would never accept cultural view because he has already lost cultute and language...COMMON GOALS AND TARGETS WOULD MAKE HIM PASHTUN HAHAHAHA... .. . Haider khan10 (talk) 14:57, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

genetic studies have corroborated the underlying traditional Ghori Tajik origin the greatest Afghan tribal confederacy, the Bettani (Ghalji) – which is in fact now the largest group of Pashtuns and historically the most accomplished.. . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 14:57, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brothet USaamo, thats why i am emphasizing on as Swatis are a Pashtun tribe and under Headings we can described them as Ghori-Tajik by orihin as same like great Ghaljis and other tribes are defined...... .. Haider khan10 (talk) 15:06, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, Is qais baba a fastaane farhad or something like "same targets same goals" I am sure both of them........Haider khan10 (talk) 15:14, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear Usaamo English lessons are also recommended as I see alot of misinterpretation of what I write....... who ever said Swatis aren't Tajiks. People do talk about genetics without even having a slight idea of what they have written. Sor metaaaa av biraqsa qomandan tura para para mekoni khu hanoz shuma khawahish dari. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:40, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I would suggest that Ghizais and Mattis aren't mixed one is Turk and other tajik. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:42, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * as far as whosoever, is Qais some people would sneak in to change the article to Qais is father of all Swatis???? I hope we all can see that record. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:44, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * decide if it's Qais, it's some other or who ..... Y paternal lines are important suggest believe them. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:46, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * blunders like which Usaamo the one brits recorded that "these people hide their real origin" and still some who don't believe in paternal lines propagate to have descended from Qais and even at time from a brother of an ancestor of Yusufzais. Blacksmiths, coppersmiths, and pottery makers all work but with different materials..... Macgregor recorded it long time back. I also would recommend we don't rub off these lines. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:53, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Btw Usaamo I didn't omit terms like ,,," Pashtunized", and "dehaan origins" the one who did it is now wanting it back with his interpretation. I really would help but our problem is the students and Wikipedia users. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:58, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * why don't Mattis match Swatis genetically one has to understand what's Dehqan and what is ordinary Tajiks. I recommend reading again. Azmarai76 (talk) 16:08, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo bro just to save us of more embarrassment one should see if MDS Analysis is a Genetic Science or otherwise..... I can't say more. Azmarai76 (talk) 16:16, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo bro I'm all for your wordings to define this community. Azmarai76 (talk) 16:29, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * STONEWALL hasn't stopped Azmarai76 (talk) 16:33, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USmaao, I think he is losing Patience now, as he forgot to mention qais baba abdalis father, i dont mind if he accept him as their symbolic one.. . i just wanted to show him a mirror that accept himself as Persianized Pashtun....now its time to accept SWATI PASHTUNS as pashtun by their culture language and customs. . . atleast they extreme better than those Abdalis who have forgot their language and culture ... he must read a book Pashtun written by Bahadur Shah zafer kaka khel. Four Tribal confederations or four sons one of them was an adopted, and great Ghaljis ancestor was a turk by origin. Haider khan10 (talk) 16:45, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, I had suggested already that we can post like " Swati are Pashtun tribe and can show them Ghori-Tajik under in Descent and Origin section by origin...Its nothing wrong with it, otherwise he should go and change many pashtum tribes who are culturally Pashtuns !!!!! I will accept my Tribe like this also ..... I will never allow him to make chamges of his own personal will !!!!!!!. . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 16:59, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Brother Usaamo did I accept anywhere that Qais is just symbolic father of Abdalis ????? Azmarai76 (talk) 17:07, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * for us he is our ancestor but can't let others to sneak in and join out Confederates. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:08, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Ghoris were turks throughout his debate now he thinks all Swatis are Ghoris ???? I guess I was writ9ng French Usaamo by quoting the fact that Dehqans from which Swatis Shalmanis and a few others like Nooran belong are Ghalcha Tajiks while Ghoris Dolatshahis hangars and kamangars are different. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:12, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * other tribes why they are considered Pashtuns has been explained and I guess English is what is causing hurdle to understand. Each and every authority has recorded Swatis such and even today if Swatis are mentioned Afghans and Pashtuns think its Yusufzais of Swat. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:16, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * as far as patience is concerned who would not lose it to listen to a person who doesn't believe in paternal line. Reminds me Pompoei.... but still others can be invited here Usaamo bro who are victim of such people. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:18, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * onething am I the one makes people Pashtuns or non Pashtuns??? Why would anyone tell me to accept Swatis as Pashtuns. Community is born with an identity noone makes people something he is begged for. Usaamo bro I really agree with your wordings are best suited. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:22, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo the last two paragraphs tells us even more about this group of people who twists facts on Wikipedia. I amnot wasting time but trying to undo what these guys have been doing to these pages for so many years. This was the only way to keep ourselves well put to tell them they aren't Pashtuns so please don't mislead people and destroy Wikipedia. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:28, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo really wish if they understand history, genetics, anthropology and societal sciences are subjects and can't be learnt by browsing free internet. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:31, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo Dont even think of that he would get Swatis out of Pashtuns list whereas they are in millions speak Pashto and follow pashtunwali so be cool and its not his home page to post whatever he like ... که ته ما نه منۍ قسم خداي وي چه ځه تا ومنم ــــــــــ. Haider khan10 (talk) 17:44, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, ask for me just one thing and i dont know for how many times i wii have to keep asking, that great ghaljis are pashtuns by culture and language or paternally???? dont send me the old rubbish reply like their GOALS AND TARGETS were same!!!! wether he likes it or not anyone cannot ignore suxh big tribe SWATI PASJTUNS.. . . . . . . .  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs) 17:55, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo bro Pashtun scholars categorically got Swatis listed as a non Pashtun tribe only half (maybe) of which is Pashto speaking very recently. Looking at some people remind me of Olaf Caroe he simply considered Cis Indus area as non Pashtun land like his previous counterparts. As far as Usaamo bro the last sentence of his paragraph above is concerned it reminds me notes of Captain Wace about character of these people. I can't agree more with Waces' view....... I pity that assimilation has rubbed off the lines between nobles and non nobles in this tribe something we experienced all along this discourse. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:57, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo seems like Hasting was even more correct but since I am a Popalzai I can't repeat what he wrote. But it's more than accurate. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:00, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Hayat I Afghan also seems well giving out nice account of these people being called Faqeers, Himsayas or doing menial jobs in Swat. I was thinking all along he maybe didn't read them well. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:04, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo Denzil Ibettsons description is the best after I see the black is being turned into white.

Usaamo bro I agree with what description you came up with. I am also keeping the screen shorts of these conversations maybe it will help in making Pashtuns aware of the real situation of these people. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:09, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Usaamo their views should also be shown on all Pashtun forums which I will .... as we have to protect ourselves from twisting the facts and no try believing in ancestry at all. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:18, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * and make Pashtuns aware that don't believe in ancestry at all. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:23, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Dont push your words in pashtuns mouth, he can ask any pashtun if cant speak pashto, would say what kind of Pashtun are you.. like "mara ta sanga pakhtun ye che pukhto nashi wayaly!! smile always.

Brother USaamo, Denzel Ibbeston mentioned many other tribes and their origin, why to take reference just for SWATI PASHTUNS alone. Who are this man to ignore a predominant Pashtun tribe, who speak Pashto and follow Pasjtunwali....All the Pashtun tribes by culture and language today are more Pashtun than any other around. . . Haider khan10 (talk) 18:42, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

يو لوؽ متل دۍ جذنده که د پلار ذا ښو ښو په واذ دا

۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ Haider khan10 (talk) 18:50, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

ښپل کار سذه کار لره. . . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 19:01, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo....we are proud Pashtuns of a predominant Swati tribe, I dont know why he keeps personal grudges for my tribe, I would never allow him to make changes according to his will .. . Haider khan10 (talk) 19:01, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo I guess grudge is something that doesn't come in acedemic discussion. However, once these conversations are on Pashtun forums everything will be fine forever. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:06, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo do you still want me to expose him more??? Azmarai76 (talk) 19:08, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo brother see his paragraph above and level of his genius.... sor meta agar mekhawahi ka Pushtun shudi soye peeda ku Azmarai76 (talk) 19:11, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I don't want it to my will rather the words you selected before Usaamo.... Swatis aren't Pashtuns I can't do anything about it. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:13, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I also pity the assumptions he makes .... hahaha Azmarai76 (talk) 19:16, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I am glad he has admitted all what I have been complaining about from non Pashtun origins of Swatis to intentions to mislead articles on Wikipedia without even knowing... Azmarai76 (talk) 20:22, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo pls tell him that We swati Pashtuns don't need any certificate from him and he can go on any platform whereever he likes but as far as I am on conversation, I will show him an academic view in favour of Swati Pashtuns always as culturally and in as tribal confederations as well but I am sorry I don't believe in Qais Baba for the great Pashtuns and this is my personal opion as i can prove it by history also, I asked him for than two times but couldn't get the ansnwer that if Qais baba had gone to accept Islam with more than fourty persons of his tribes men to see Prophet, whereas all the delegations who met Prophet has an established record but we couldn't find any about this delegation and suppose if he accept Islam and his offsprings would be accepted as pashtuns then where rest of the people had gone, and the whole tribe of them those who were waiting for them in their mountains...were they Pashtuns or not????? Let me remind you THE HUGE MASS POPULATION OF SWATI PASHTUNS SPEAK PASHTO AND FOLLOW PASHTUNWALI AND YOU CAN'T IGNORE SUCH A HUGE TRIBE. Haider khan10 (talk) 20:34, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, if he feels happy with it then he is most welcome but as far as this issue concern his happiness is not secured because i wil follow him wherever he wants to go on any platform and i will defend every great Pashtun who were intermingled among them to accept Pashtun code of honor with the passage of time, as same as great Ghaljis and other pashtuns assimilated commingled with them. ask him to smile now   Haider khan10 (talk) 20:59, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, tell him it is like a great river indus and it's impossible to filter small rivers out of it ......... Haider khan10 (talk) 21:06, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, what is wrong if we post mutually like " Swatis are a Pashtun tribe" and then we can mentioned them " of Ghori-Tajik origin ", in Origin section, it is the most suitable way to describe Swati Pashtuns. it is an academic view becasue so many pashtun tribes are already described like this. Haider khan10 (talk) 21:20, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo copying and pasting is something which gives me legibility issue.

What's wrong with calling them Ghori Tajiks is what I explained earlier. Tajiks have many tribes like Afghans and Swatis come under Galcha conglomerate while Ghoris and others I mentioned come under maidani Tajiks and let me add Galcha and Dehqans are mostly very old population of the present day Afghanistan while maidani Tajiks from cities are from Sogdh. Azmarai76 (talk) 21:48, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

I hope we know Sogdh is present day Tajikistan and Uzbekistan roughly. Azmarai76 (talk) 21:49, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo brother no Pashtun wants any help from anyone they all can do it themselves. Issue being discussed here is one tribe called Swati Cis Indus. Azmarai76 (talk) 21:52, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * not Pashtuns at all Azmarai76 (talk) 21:53, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * as far as Bettanis, Mattis and Ghilzais are concerned they are already doing what it takes to omit the mid night addition of Swatis to their pages and I guess they have risen the issue with very senior editors at Wikipedia. Nothing for anyone to worry about. Azmarai76 (talk) 21:57, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * therefore, what Usaamo phrased is correct and I stand by it academically it is correct. Wish intentions weren't to make this tribe a pure Pushtun tribe rather than Pashtunized tajiks of Dehqan origins I would never oppose any such proposal. Azmarai76 (talk) 22:02, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, kindly suggest me what is this??? "The prevailing Y-chromosome lineage in Pashtun and Tajik (R1a1a-M17), has the highest observed diversity among populations of the Indus Valley [46]. R1a1a-M17 diversity declines toward the Pontic-Caspian steppe where the mid-Holocene R1a1a7-M458 sublineage is dominant [46]. R1a1a7-M458 was absent in Afghanistan, suggesting that R1a1a-M17 does not support, as previously thought [47], expansions from the Pontic Steppe [3], bringing the Indo-European languages to Central Asia and India.   Haider khan10 (talk) 22:43, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother Usamo, just take another look please. "MDS and Barrier analysis have identified a significant affinity between Pashtun, Tajik, North Indian, and West Indian populations, creating an Afghan-Indian population structure that excludes the Hazaras, Uzbeks, and the South Indian Dravidian speakers. In addition, gene flow to Afghanistan from India marked by Indian lineages, L-M20, H-M69, and R2a-M124, also seems to mostly involve Pashtuns and Tajiks. This genetic affinity and gene flow suggests interactions that could have existed since at least the establishment of the region's first civilizations at the Indus Valley and the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex". Haider khan10 (talk) 22:47, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, as they say in Pashto....Pa kalar kena.....Haider khan10 (talk) 22:49, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, tell him it wasn't me who added Swati Pashtuns in Ghalji-batani confederation....and i am in favour of it because Swati Pashtuns are large tribe and cannot be ignored by any means. Haider khan10 (talk) 23:05, 22 August 2020 (UTC) Brother USaamo I need you to see from each and every angle ......Haider khan10 (talk) 23:24, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, please have a look..."Haplogroup Q1b2 (also termed as Q-Y1150 and Q-L68) 19 is the Y-chromosome that has been determined to be associated with the clan of the Sultans of Pech, and the progeny of Sultans Fahkal and Bahram. This haplogroup is an Indo-Iranian Y-chromosome of Siberian origin, foundamong Hindus, Russian Tatar princes, Poles, Iraqis, Syrians and Tajiks. 19, 20 But it is also evidentlythe genetic marker of a large number from among Pashtun populations.   Haider khan10 (talk) 23:27, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, there are so many theories about different pashtun tribes and properly discussed on their article pages under their Origin section, why not to do so with massive Pashtun Tribe Swati, if not that then i would never allow him to make changes on Swati Pashtun talk page......Haider khan10 (talk) 00:47, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, I am here to keep eye on him like an eagle........because he was the one who had posted darogatory remarks for Swati Pashtuns for so many times and I had to delete it. Haider khan10 (talk) 00:52, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, He just want to corner Swati Pashtuns but believe me its now impossible because it's such large Pashtun tribe now and no one could ignore it..............Haider khan10 (talk) 00:58, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, Great Pashtuns are Pashtuns due to their common language, culture and land. Haider khan10 (talk) 01:06, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

If someone dosn't want to understand, then what can I do exept pray for him to learn Pashto language and culture.........Haider khan10 (talk) 01:09, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, I had already posted so many references in favour of Swati Pashtuns and don't want to repeat it again and again.......Haider khan10 (talk) 01:17, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

COMMON GOALS AND TARGETS, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT .... when you have nothing to reply then you got this sort of thing!!!!!! Haider khan10 (talk) 01:21, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, these derogatory remarks about pashtuns by him would come in front of him again and again..........."Please leave it one who knows the tribe and let me edit it. Btw they are tajiks like many other others got pashtunized like Shilamnis Bangashes, Sheranis, Mishwanis, Marwats, Niazi, Lodhi, Suris so better omit them all from list of tribes". Haider khan10 (talk) 01:59, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, in urdu also...." لیکن جینیاتی مطالعات نے بنیادی روایتی غوری تاجک نسل کی سب سے بڑی قبائلی کنفیڈریسی ، بٹانی (غلجی) کی تصدیق کی ہے - جو حقیقت میں اب                                   پشتونوں کا سب سے بڑا گروہ ہے اور تاریخی اعتبار سے سب سے زیادہ کامیاب۔  …   Haider khan10 (talk) 02:08, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I recommend reading " serving the common cause" secondly where did Sultan of Pech came in from now?????? These sultans of Pech if any weren't Pashtuns or Afghans ???? Making reference to them is beyond understanding now. I guess Usaamo and me have been telling this since beginning that Swatis are Pashtunized of Dehqan origins who have been well recorded. As far as genetics is concerned Usaamo I again would say not copy things and paste them here as our friend doesn't even know what they mean....... Azmarai76 (talk) 05:00, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo I were him I wouldn't copy these things and paste them here without sources as he has been all along. Azmarai76 (talk) 05:06, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * What if a Swati having LM20 shows up what would be his response Usaamo ???? Azmarai76 (talk) 05:09, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo I recommend studying STRs and SNPs that are used to ascertain which group of people are from same conglomerate in a Haplogroup. Please tell him he needs to read. Azmarai76 (talk) 05:12, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * nothing is for immature especially when he starts teaching Usaamo. Azmarai76 (talk) 05:16, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Genetics I assure him is way too tricky for him to understand if can just tell me what is MDS Analysis??????? how it he matches them to historic narratives?????? .... I am sure copying and pasting is what will follow. Pushtun shudan Sahib. As I see him he now wants to be Pashtun, Tajik, North Indian, Ghori, Bettani, Lodhi, and Suri all at the same time. He was fighting us before and very sure he wasn't Pashtunized Tajik or Dehqan race. I recommend more reading. Azmarai76 (talk) 05:29, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo brother I recommend to quote sources also from wherever one is copying and pasting something so I can explain it well. Azmarai76 (talk) 06:03, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Usaamo do you see even a hint of an insult to anyone in the above paragraph??? I hope this remains acedemic and not reflect what a person is like in his real life. Swatis aren't Pashtuns but just Pashtunized tajiks of Dehqan race.

However, our brother has been saying things that are even insult to Qais Abdur Rasheed and all Pashtun Confederates rather to his own people. I hope he understands english. Azmarai76 (talk) 08:01, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo what's the terms like "defeating him on every forum" and "ignoring Swatis"...... that he is using again and again.

Arbitrary break for readability and accessibility 5
Wikipedia isn't place for fighting nor other acedemic forums. Noone has ignored Swatis but have shed light on their origins and history which I think he is of the view is ignoring this tribe. He needs serious reading. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:11, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Especially the Pashtunwali tribal way of life pursuing the common cause. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:07, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, he is repeating the same paragraphs, he has his own opinion in a derogatory way....I had suggested you to describef Swati Pashtuns as Pashtun tribe first and after that we can mention them by their origin as Ghori-Tajik, otherwise there is no way out....and no need to add anything in that article,... pushtunized vs persianized.......tell him to smile please.......Haider khan10 (talk) 15:41, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo this is called destroying Wikipedia may be Frank will take a look at this.... weep as always..... Azmarai76 (talk) 16:03, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo this is called destroying Wikipedia may be Frank will take a look at this.... weep as always..... Azmarai76 (talk) 16:03, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Azmarai76 (talk) 16:05, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * however Usaamo I had asked him questions like what's MDS Analysis???? He didn't answer as he couldn't which subtribe of Bettanis are Swatis from.... I still hope I will get answers to those questions. Azmarai76 (talk) 16:07, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * however Usaamo I had asked him questions like what's MDS Analysis???? He didn't answer as he couldn't which subtribe of Bettanis are Swatis from.... I still hope I will get answers to those questions. Azmarai76 (talk) 16:07, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Pashtuns are people with nice recorded conglomerates not anyone who learns Pashto can enter them.... sorry for him .... but I want people to get credible info on Wikipedia. Azmarai76 (talk) 16:10, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Pashtuns are people with nice recorded conglomerates not anyone who learns Pashto can enter them.... sorry for him .... but I want people to get credible info on Wikipedia. Azmarai76 (talk) 16:10, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo I stand with your description. Not because I'm opposing him because its factual and correct. Azmarai76 (talk) 16:22, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * " these people hide their real origin " Denzil Ibettson Azmarai76 (talk) 16:50, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I hope noone sees his views on paternal lines .... embarrassment Azmarai76 (talk) 17:09, 23 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo just for knowledge and nothing else

"The patrilineal definition is based on an important orthodox law of Pashtunwali which mainly requires that only those who have a Pashtun father are Pashtun. This law has maintained the tradition of exclusively patriarchal tribal lineage. This definition places less emphasis on what language one speaks, such as Pashto, Dari, Hindko, Urdu, Hindi or English." Azmarai76 (talk) 17:27, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

From the Pashtun page at Wikipedia Azmarai76 (talk) 17:28, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

One having a non Pashtun father would always be .... Pashtunized. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:30, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, I need to ask him for one more time and i really don't know for how many times more i will have to repeat these questions again, if Great Ghaljis and many more other Pashtun tribes who came in through cultural way by adopting language then why he would accepting them as Pashtuns whereas in case of Swati Pashutns the situation is the same also because got assmililated in them in the same way.....I don't know why he is so desperate to corner Swati Pashtuns, otherwise genetic secince also tells us some affinity in between then ( I had posted some genetic results also), infact he has already made up his mind to say "NO" to every reference, I don't know why he is not taking interest to see a book Tehququl Afghan and Tazkara by Roshan Khan Roshan where he described Swati Pashtuns as group of different Pashtun tribes but mentioned them as from Batani tribal confederation. I will advice him to please have a look on a book "Pashtun" by Syed bahadur shah zafer kaka khel, in his book he is of the view that Pashtuns Aryans who would come to tied up in one knot like one language and culture, customs etc...I am convinced enough with this view and it is also a solid academic view. On the other hand theory of Qais baba a folklore is getting weaker and weaker by the time, because four sons and among which one of them was an adopted son and Great Ghaljis ancestor was a Turk prince, so that means right from the start that was an unacceptable theory for great Pashtuns, where rest of the Pashtuns tribesmen have gone, wern't they Pashtuns because you consider qais baba's sons Pashtuns only!!!! Tell him that Swatis are formally added in Batani/Ghalji tribal confederacy, that's why years before Khan Roshan Khan had mentioned them in this confederation. I don't know why my friend don't want to understand that Pashtuns have their code of hounor and a great language Pashto, which distinguished them form other tribes. Millions of Swatis Pashtuns had always returned themselves as Pashtuns in colonial times also, Pashto is their mother tongue and follow Pashtunwali.

Wai cha kary akhpala ... gila makra la bala.......                more to come ..... Haider khan10 (talk) 21:34, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

An article by Abdul Qayum Balala an old one, "The Arrival of Afghans

In eleventh century, Khwaja Ayyaz went on the Right Bank of Swat River and conquered the areas of Adenzee, Shamozee, Nekpikheil and so on. Mahmood went on the Left Bank of the river, when he reached Hudigram, there was the fort of Raja Gira, strongly built on a high peak. Mahmood commanded the conquest of this fort to an adroit general, Peer Khushal. The conquest of the fort was much more risky, but the order of the supreme commander was complied with.

Taking charge, the creative minded general besieged the fort for three days and cut off the underground connection of water link. On the forth day, he attacked the fort. The attack was a serious one and many soldiers were martyred, including Peer Khushal himself, but the fort was captured and since then Mahmood proceeded on and captured the whole Swat.

After conquering Swat, Mahmood settled two tribes of Afghan here, i.e. Swati and Dalazak, and went back. Both these tribes were living a happy life till they were driven away by the Yousafzai tribe of Pathans". Stay with me always        Haider khan10 (talk) 21:59, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, see what colonial historians had their views about us....."Suleman=Rajput Solan=Solanki. Daud=Daudputra among Muslims=Rajput Dadi or Dadika. For example zai and khel suffixes Pakhtun bloodliness. He think zai=persian zadan(to give birth)=sunskrit jan; and khel=sunskrit kul(family). Kuldip means lamp of the faimily. The pakhtun use zai and khel interchangeably.

Now some more Suri pukhtun=syrians by the son of seluekus who ruled that part of Alaxander eastern empire.

Afridis mentioned by Herodotus Aparytai brought to their present abode by Ghaznavi. But they came from Afghan province of Maimama.

Orakzai mentioned by Arriyan(roman historian)Arasakoi and their rivals Bangansh originally came from Ghazni.

Bangash=Bangak=Bangat Chohan Rajputs.

Turis=Tiwaris Rajputs of India.

Utmanzai=Utoi Greek tribe. Utmanzai subsection Baddo=Yaddo of Rajput tribe of Krishna; Ballo is Rajput balla khatri.

Mandal=Jat tribe Mada, version Mandanr, live along Jadoon or Gadun tribes(of Hazara which is sanskrit Abhisara), which names are the varient of the Jadu Rajput tribe. These are Yadavas of India".  Thats why I am emphasizing that great Pashtuns are tied in knot and that is their language and culture, which is the more authentic academic acceptale view for great Pashtuns.    Haider khan10 (talk) 22:40, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Main point is that Pashtuns cannot be defined by their ethnicity only instead, they are also defined by speaking Pukhto/Pashto and by practicing a set of traditional cultural values known as Pakhtunwali/Pashtunwali, also called Pukhto. Haider khan10 (talk) 23:02, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Common targets and common goals !!!!!! "thats what he posted "Please leave it one who knows the tribe and let me edit it. Btw they are tajiks like many other others got pashtunized like Shilamnis Bangashes, Sheranis, Mishwanis, Marwats, Niazi, Lodhi, Suris so better omit them all from list of tribes. Azmarai76", he didnt reckoned all the above mentioned tribes as Pashtuns". It was him Brother USaamo. Haider khan10 (talk) 02:48, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo I still want the question you raised to be answered if mine are being ignored. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:05, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo I still want the question you raised to be answered if mine are being ignored. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:06, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * if your questions aren't answered how can one even raise more. Btw, keeping this yardstick we should then go with authors who think Swatis are Indian race of hindu origin too. Isn't it???? Ethnogenesis isn't same as history..... Azmarai76 (talk) 03:12, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * the story books he has mentioned like tazkira, Bahadur Shah Kakakhel and tehqiqul Afghan commented upon in History of Pashtuns by Brig. Bangash don't match one another what to say of making an opinion on origin of the tribe in question. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:19, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo I know these tribes and I recommend reading books and serious books and not copying and pasting from internet. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:21, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * a person is known by his paternal line in all cultures one not believing that shouldn't even talk or make disruptive edits to any pages. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:27, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Ghilzais aren't from any Turk prince and time scale that made them enlisted in list of Pashtuns should be kept in mind and it's not 500 year only like Swatis ( while many still call Ghilzais Upra) recorded by Bellew and others. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * it's really beyond understanding that Cis Indus Swatis got their history recorded only in 1960s on onwards ???? In tazkira, kakakhel and Tehqikul Afghan??? Azmarai76 (talk) 04:17, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Leitner was a German and Bernard Dorn a Russian while the colonist recorded each and every detail precisely but all of them did it professionally. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:20, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * as far as Pashtuns are asked even today especially the literary clubs they don't consider Cis Indus Swatis Pashtuns per se .... but are sure of its Pashtunization latter. References: Dr. Lateef Yaad, Hewaadmal Sahib. Not to forget the general public consider them Hazaraywal as Usaamo suggested. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:47, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, Ask him if Great Gjalji's amcestor was not a turk prince then who was he,a Tajik Ghori Pashtun?? It seems to be like cat jumpimg out of the bag, he thougt the only brain left in the whole world alone!!!!! more to come ......... . Haider khan10 (talk) 12:12, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, He is just trying to make disceimination amongst pakhtun brothers...because he had already posted derogatory remarks about Pashtuns like menyioned many Pashtun tribes as non Pashtuns .. I want to ask you, is there no body to pull him off?? I had mentioned already that Swatis are in millioms and a huge majority of them speak Pashto and follow pashtunwali and all from orush to mansehra battagram and malakand tied in Swati tribal taroon !. . . . . . . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 12:27, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo just tell our very learned fellow to please start with the book History of Afghans or if it's not available or it doesn't make sense due to it's colonial english I would recommend History of Pashtuns by Brig Bangash. Ghaljis are Turks as he himself said Khalaj while Shah Hussain Ghori who married BiBi Matu daughter of Bet Neika was a Prince of Ghor and the royal house of Ghor is recorded as Tajiks. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:11, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * As far as whatever tribal taron he claims was never recorded by any authority till recently as people on the right side are Yusufzais and on the left Cis Indus Swatis. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:14, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo I would recommend he answers the questions you put to him. I am still waiting. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:15, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I am sure Usaamo you awaits it even more. But he shouldn't even talk about Pashtuns as he isn't one himself and doesn't even believe in the very first principle of Pashtunwali that he himself admitted that he doesn't believe in paternal lines. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:18, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, Point to be noted that Great Ghalji's ancestor was Ghori-Tajik, as he has just now accepted and i would say admitted also, so i have to say nothing now on this.....whereas every one knows Ghaljis are considered to be the most greatest tribe among all Pashtuns, and thats what I was trying to tell him. Now I am planning to post almost all all Khels subsections of the Swati Pashtuns....wasnt him who had posted derogatory remarks for so many Pashtun tribes or should I post his remarks again.. . . . . . . . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 17:53, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

please suggest him historians like Zafer Kaka khel Roshan Khan Fazal Mehmood Khan Samiullah Jan and more to post.......Haider khan10 (talk) 17:53, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, tell him to read authors like Ameen Yousafzai his book "Raheel e Karawan", Kamran Ahmed Sohdarvi his book "Pashtun Tribes". Haider khan10 (talk) 21:25, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo I want questions to be raised by you to be answered. He can live with any identity he wants but not categorize people misleading Wikipedia users. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:36, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Little English lessons are also recommended. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:37, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, I have answered every questions through books and Articles, my friend will never accept them, because he had already his mind set to say "NO" always !! Huge PASHTO classes are recommended for this only brain to become Pashtun again... "COMMON GOALS AND COMMON TARGETS". Haider khan10 (talk) 05:05, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, I thought he would have gone to learn Pashto as recommended but he is still here to improve english.........Haider khan10 (talk) 05:16, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * no answer to Usaamo questions still waiting for those. Azmarai76 (talk) 06:16, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * but strange they don't believe in paternal lines as our friend claimed. If that's the case we will to read their maternal lines to ascertain who they are. Azmarai76 (talk) 06:38, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * telling Usaamo to note that Shah Hussain was Ghori Tajik means you know yourself that Swatis are Tajiks but are against calling them Pashtunized Tajiks of Dehqan race ???? Isn't it..... Azmarai76 (talk) 08:00, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * stand with Usaamo he is correct in description of this tribe. Azmarai76 (talk) 09:08, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, I know he will never accept Cultural view because he has lost his language even, I am happy great Khiljis are proven great Pashtuns with cultural view without qais baba, while my brain brother tried his level best to impose his suited view on us....I am soon going to post Swati Pashtun's khels on talk page first and then will glorify on article page also as soon as block is lifted. I hope he wom't mind when I say GREAT GHALJIS......tell him to smile !!!. . . Haider khan10 (talk) 10:40, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

great Swati Pashtuns can be seen in batani tribal confederation and its so natural also because all Pashtun like great ghalji Lodhi Swati Suri Ghori  tribes are tied up under one umbrella .... now the time has come that we must promote culrural view because as I told you before, there are countless flaws to accept qais baba !. . . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 11:49, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * waiting for answers to the questions Usaamo raised??? Azmarai76 (talk) 13:50, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo and me are considering the "cultural aspect" therefore, Usaamo came up a nice description for this tribe as Pashtunized Tajiks. There's not even a single tribe called Swati listed in any government papers with Bettanis, however, this arrangement may be possible if the law permits for a person who wants to abandon Swati tribal identity and adopt Bettani one. Azmarai76 (talk) 13:54, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * If someone who doesn't understand Qais baba why would he give out references to the books like Tazkira and Kakakhel which both strongly believe in him?????? Azmarai76 (talk) 13:56, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * As far as posting anything is possible for such people as I can see from Yusufzais they have spent 15 years to become Ghiljais now. I assure them it's a well recorded fact that Swatis hide their origins and won't harm me in person but only mislead the Wikipedia users which will definitely be taken care of. I think noone can expose himself more by saying " I don't believe in paternal line". Amazed Azmarai76 (talk) 14:04, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, if he is ready to accept Great Pashtun tribes like great Ghalji Ghori Suri Lodhi to be mentioned as culturally pashtunized tribes and make changes in their article pages then I am ready to accept him, otherwise just smile......119.160.118.203 (talk) 17:21, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * As far as his time and again suggestion for me to learn Pashto is itself reflects he makes wrong conclusions without even knowing if a Popalzai knows Pashto or not but he never speaks it others to ensure they are viewed as royals ( Ref: Tarikh e Ahmad Shahi). Therefore, our friend should stick to English language I which this encyclopedia is where he keeps distorting facts to become Pashtun. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:18, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo I guess I have made it clear hundred times that they have been mentioned as Pashtunized in History of Afghans and every second book on Pashtun history. If he reads he will be able to see. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:21, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * No Ghilzai, Bettani or even Mattu tribe hasn't been left without mention of their true origin I.e. Ghilzais as Khalajs and Mattis as descendants of Shah Hussain and this can be seen in all books. That's because noone is ashamed of his line except a few that I mentioned elsewhere. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:24, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I again would recommend History of Pashtuns by Brig. Bangash published in recent times but it's in English. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:26, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo bro I would still want to see what answers he comes up with to your questions. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:28, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, Kaka khel believes in cultural view of Aryans very strongly and yes Honorable Roshan khan beliebes in qais baba......now it's up to the readers what to accept and what not but no one could thrust views on anyone....tell my friend if he tried his best to delete Swati Pashtuns from pashtuns list, even then I had proved them related to Bani Israel.....that's another debate if I personally don't believe in it.......there are so many theories regarding Pasbtun's origin, let readers decide it that what is acceptable to them........119.160.118.203 ([[User talk:
 * talk]]) 18:40, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, he don't reckoned Bangash as pashtuns, then why to emphasized to read their book....remember as he mentioned different Pashtun tribes as non pashtuns or Pashtunized?. . . . 119.160.118.203 (talk) 18:53, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Usaamo tell our fellow here it's not about race Brig. Bangashs book is the most well written one giving alot of details on Pashtuns if he is interested on Pashtuns History.

Despite, being Bangash he wrote the truth about his tribe as probable Budnis of Karlanri section.......... it about intellectual honesty and work a person is known for not distorting the facts. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:01, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

It Carries very little about Swatis and whatever he has written this fellow won't like it himself. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:02, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Btw, if someone isn't Pashtun can't do any literary work even if Bangashs are Pashtuns or otherwise ???? Usaamo he really needs to be told to believe in paternal lines. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:04, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * yes it's upto readers but this article we are talking about is about Swatis and others know who is Qais what is Aryans what is Turk and what is a Tajik. It's only those who hide their origins are Yusufzais then Bani Israel's, Bettanis, descendants of Qais and Ghiljais. I hope we will soon see someone coming in claiming there shouldn't even be record of paternal lines so one can change whatever he wants to be after every 10 years. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:10, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * as far as deletion of Swatis is concerned they were never there in the Pashtun list of tribe and still aren't but I did oppose grouping them with Indics as many editors wanted to place them. I believe they should've been with Indics now as they keep changing their origins. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:16, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, tell him again that without language and culture he is nothing but a pathan of patna !!!! He himself told us that great Ghaljis ancestor was a Ghori-Tajik then where there paternal line goes !!! That all shows us the importance of Culture language custom, and tell him if he remain wants to be Abdali then he should get his language back first, or will he left behind nothing for his offsprings?? Haider khan10 (talk) 21:05, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, tell him that Swati Pashutns have never changed their identity, right from the begining they are well divided into three great major clans like Gabri Mamyalii and Mitravi and still they are flourishing in the whole of Mansehra battagram and Malakand also, Pashto and Pashtunwali are with them.........Haider khan10 (talk) 21:05, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, Ask him to answer .... that will he use term "Pashtunized" for great Ghalji Ghori Lodhi Suri or will he say Pashtun tribes???? He has forgotten each and every thing not cursing himself that's all !!!! smile now  Haider khan10 (talk) 21:13, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, Ask him please, was great karlani an adopted son?? Haider khan10 (talk) 21:21, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, History is witness that Pashtun tribes were always in fight against each other most of the times, how could someone say "Common goals and targets", whereas every tribe had been trying to overcome to another.........Haider khan10 (talk) 21:25, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Ghilji or Ghilzai tribes, by the admission of their own traditions have Tajikand Turkic antecedents. It was these Bettani Afghans who were most closely associated with the Delhi Sultanate, its creation and all stages of its existence, and as such were also closely ent wined with the Gibari Swatis. Nowadays Gibari-Swati tribes are formally classified among Pashtuns, by being included in the Bettani tribal genealogical tree or shajarrah. This classification is most appropriate, given the Tajik antecedents of the Gibaris, being the same as those claimed by the Bettani Matti tribes. The Bettani tribal confederacy of Pashtuns hides many glorious historical secrets, being associated with and made up of the Ghoris and Khiljis -- and has produced therenowned Afghan historical colossi such as the Khilji and the Lodi Dynasties of the Delhi Sultanate,and Sher Shah Suri and Mirwais Hotaki not to mention others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs) 21:38, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother USaamo, Tell him say no to discrimination among Pashtun tribes like he say, "Please leave it one who knows the tribe and let me edit it. Btw they are tajiks like many other others got pashtunized like Shilamnis Bangashes, Sheranis, Mishwanis, Marwats, Niazi, Lodhi, Suris so better omit them all from list of tribes. Azmarai76". Do you think able to talk on Pashtuns?? Haider khan10 (talk) 21:50, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Dear brothers, , stop mentioning me in your every other comment, I'm not a judge between you both. As to this this dispute we have had enough argumentation, repeating yourselves is not gonna help it. You have already spammed this talk space alot and as I said with this atttitude we're wasting so much of our time which can be use to get this encyclopedia better. I urge you both to please show some flexibility in your stances and find a way out.

I'm looking to document the history of this great tribe on Wikipedia but cannot go for it if the basic point of their origin remains disputed. If this battleground attitude continues, I will have no other choice than to go on higher forums of Wikipedia against you WP:AN. USaamo (t@lk) 22:03, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

I read your point about Khilji tribe being called Pashtuns despite being Turkic origin but my assertion is simply of mentioning the Dehqan origin of Swatis which I think is important. As to what you are drawing comparisons between Swatis and these Pashtun tribes, it's going against Wikipedia policies. No Original Research WP:OR is one of core content policy. Similarly we cannot synthesize the things here on our own as per WP:SYNTH. So it's not ours to rewrite Swatis as full fledge Pashtuns here. I hope you understand this... USaamo (t@lk) 22:18, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis are Pashtuns according to authors as they also assimilated as same as other pashtuns but what i insist is there is no need to mentions them as "Pashtunize" ... are there any tribe defined like this ever??? Regards     Haider khan10 (talk) 22:50, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Swatis pashtuns are culturally pashtuns and millions of them speak pashto and follow pashtunwali from Mansehra battagram and malakand also and its not a research...this is fact .......Haider khan10 (talk) 23:02, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

will you please tell me what is full fledge pashtun and half fledged pashtun?? Haider khan10 (talk) 23:04, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

I had requested you already that it should be like this "Swatis are a pashtun tribe" and then every theory about them can be mentioned as to allow readers to make up their mind ! ```` Haider khan10 (talk) 23:19, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

like they are Ghori Tajik by origin....Cultural view is the most academic view ....... Haider khan10 (talk) 23:19, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

I am strongly stand with Cultural view for Pashtuns and the whole Batani confederation are suppose to be culturally pashtuns! Haider khan10 (talk) 23:22, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Hot a.r...... sorry can't call anyone anything with out mentioning their true origin like everyone else.... Azmarai76 (talk) 05:43, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * origins are important as it tells others where to look for ones paternal lines...... J...I .... I hope I have been able to make everyone understand importance of Father's Day. Azmarai76 (talk) 05:47, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * For humans it's only the most references and they are constantly worked upon. Verifiable and authentic info is what is to be brought to the users here. Else, only not sure about himself will say start from Israel and end with Ghilzais about a tribe........ not believing in paternal lines. Azmarai76 (talk) 05:52, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * You insist you don't want to mention Pashtunized then how would you connect them to cultural view??? If Swatis weren't pashtunized then you are suggesting they should even be mentioned as a small population of them speaking Pashto ?????? I suggest you need to understand importance of Father's day. Azmarai76 (talk) 05:58, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * True Pashtun one who is either Sarbanri, Karlanri, Bettani or Ghorghust and recorded as such by authorities " the government " and " tribal code " ....... is it difficult to understand Swatis are none of these four. Azmarai76 (talk) 06:05, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I had also suggested that any individual may abandon his communial identity and adopt another if the law permits but can't fiddle with Wikipedia. The question here is not who they are as for Wikipedia users they are what's is recorded about them in books and records. Azmarai76 (talk) 06:23, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Difference between Ghori Tajiks and Dehqans Ghalcha Tajiks has been explained. Azmarai76 (talk) 06:26, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

However, I will leave it to Usaamo now. Azmarai76 (talk) 06:32, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * if only questions asked by Usaamo alone are answered instead of copying and pasting things here it will definitely help. Something being ignored. Azmarai76 (talk) 07:53, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

I will suggest him to don't make an unknown man father, please be happy with your own real father "friend "..there is no evidence of qais baba in any hadith or history book ever gone to Mandina to see prophet, if no where in Hadith then rest of the story would be so fable, just imagine, do he has any answer of it?? Without Pashto his so called father can't make him pashtun, yes he can be an afghani but Pashtun never. As far as Swati Pashtuns concerned, they are in millions speaking Pashto and follow pashtunwali, not like my afghani friend who has nothing left but just a co-called unknown father!! Insha Allah I will never allow him to make discrimination amongst Pashtuns like as he did for so many times!!! Cultural view about great Pashtuns is most accepted view in academic circles and no one can ignore the importance of it...more to come.....Smile please! Haider khan10 (talk) 10:54, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

که ذما نه منۍ د پلار ومنه ښو د اږيار مه منه. . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 11:10, 26 August 2020 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.116.233.60 (talk) 11:07, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

"common targets and common goals" just keep smiling for these golden words.....45.116.233.60 (talk) 11:43, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

You have forgotten your culture and the so-called father cannot make you a Pashtun because those who forget their culture do not even remember the unknown father. You have adapted to the Persian environment, so you are one of the great Persian speakers. A little smile.۔۔۔۔۔. . . . . . . 45.116.233.60 (talk) 12:12, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Well Qais is our ancestor but why did you make him ancestor of Swatis ??? A few days ago. Azmarai76 (talk) 12:13, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I may still speak Pashto but not with non Pashtuns friend. Azmarai76 (talk) 12:15, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

It's a habit to twist. If it is a matter of ancestors, then it comes to civilization and if it is a matter of civilization, then it jumps and goes to ancestors. And if I call Asamo as a brother, it doesn't mean that he will help me, he is interested in this matter, so I addressed him! 119.160.119.36 (talk) 12:35, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Discrimination amongst Pashtuns by saying truth about these people's origins .... hats off to how you think that can happen. Swatis aren't Pashtuns sorry. Azmarai76 (talk) 12:37, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Well for now I will forward it to the editorial board and you can talk all about them there.... Azmarai76 (talk) 12:39, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Looks like you're going to get angry again ... Because it's your habit ...  Now get in the habit of answering correctly ...  Abgan without Pashto !!! Laugh — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.160.119.36 (talk) 12:53, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I told you I have just started believing that Swatis character as reflected in all books really match yours. I will just forward the article to the editorial board and expect you to make them Pashtuns and defend your copying and pasting there Neemcha: Biddulph Azmarai76 (talk) 13:00, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * arbitration is what's is needed and happens on Wikipedia so don't worry. Azmarai76 (talk) 13:02, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

You are violating the rules of Wikipedia ... Here is the truth ...  Your likes and dislikes don't matter. And yes, thank goodness you started trying to speak Pashto. Just smile !!!! . . 119.160.119.36 (talk) 13:06, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

I repeat that you may be an Abgani but you do not meet the code of conduct of the Pashtuns. For Luc you have to adopt language and culture. Otherwise the so-called will not remain !!! smile.....,...119.160.119.36 (talk) 13:17, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * ?????? I didn't get it and have spoken Pashto at all..... Wikipedia rules clearly mention articles with dispute can be sent for arbitration and experts ask you questions I have asked for arbitration and you can convince them Swatis are Pashtuns which they aren't. Azmarai76 (talk) 13:20, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Guys please stop these personal attacks. There has been already alot of policy violations in above discussion but I restrained from taking it to WP:AN because I don't want fellow Pakistani editors to get blocked or banned. Personal attacks and uncivil behaviour is not at all justified and can lead you to block and bans WP:NPA WP:CIV. Be careful! USaamo (t@lk) 13:29, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , these IPs which commented above; 119.160.119.36, 45.116.233.60, 119.160.118.203 I believe is one of you. It is possible that you may have mistakenly commented while logged off so please comment on being logged in or else it can lead you sockpuppetery investigations WP:SOCK. USaamo (t@lk) 13:39, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

let's just ask an expert to make some sense out of it... let's get him questioned like I remember we did for Tanolies and non showed up. He can present his case there. Azmarai76 (talk) 13:40, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * else I will keep telling him why Swatis aren't Pashtuns per se and he would keep copying from internet and pasting here.... Azmarai76 (talk) 13:42, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * USaamo it's not me but him I never use my account without logging on to it. Azmarai76 (talk) 13:48, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Arbitrary break for readability and accessibility 6
Oky guys, , I propose another neutral lede for the article as a last resort for this consensus building effort. I hope it will be acceptable to you people or else then we have no other choice to go to higher forums for dispute resolution WP:DR. This will be the article's lede. All other relevant facts will be stated below in body as per references available. USaamo (t@lk) 14:11, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I agree to this also as whatever you proposed earlier also and this one is academically correct. I stand with this description also as it's been recorded in books like this. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:15, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

You are right USaamo i m trying to log in.. its 1

I love every great Pashtun who has his own. Preservation of language and culture ... And I can only pray for you. I wish you could speak Pashto but you only speak Persian and English. Can you??? . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 14:41, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

The article should be something like "Swati is a Pashtun tribe" and then under its lists we can all express ourselves openly but with biblical references. Now I don't think there is anything left ... This thread should be closed now. Otherwise the matter will go further۔۔۔smile for friend !. . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 15:00, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * this is not going to resolve it because this is the point of conflict. Pashtun origin is also mentioned in the lede so no need of repitition I believe. I've already censored so much the other friend was proposing so you should also give up on that. I've tried to keep it as much neutral as possible. Rest I've said all the relevant facts you both presented will be included in body. USaamo (t@lk) 15:06, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * This is the best possible solution and is usually applied in such situations, so as we'll mention relevant facts in body, it's upto reader to decide about that. Hope you understand. USaamo (t@lk) 15:12, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

It's very easy if one wants to understand. I am saying that Swati Pushtun tribe should be written first. Then we can present different theories in origin !! No one can impose their favorite point on Wikipedia. Otherwise I would recommend further discussion! . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 16:23, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

If you want a solution then there must be a serious effort. Osamo, I appreciate your intervention. But on the other hand the friend considers himself a total intellect and denies the references to books which is an unbearable attitude !!!! . . Haider khan10 (talk) 16:42, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

I am not saying that you should not write different views about Swati Pashtuns, but it is their right to be called Swati Pashtuns first, because in this regard the world knows them that they speak Pashto. , And the backs value power!۔۔۔۔۔smile for him....Haider khan10 (talk) 17:04, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Oh storybooks yes why not but Swatis aren't Pashtuns. Hahaha.... Swati Pushtun...... Azmarai76 (talk) 17:10, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Did Swatis come from Dara e Pich or River Toochi??? Azmarai76 (talk) 17:12, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I wish you answer my questions I will be able to understand if your assertion is correct or not but you don't answer. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:13, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I agree with you dear brother and the best way is to refer the question to experts to ascertain if Swatis are Pashtuns or Tajiks and you can make your assertion there.. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:19, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Tazkira says they have come from the banks of Toochi if so then Swatis were never in Kunar which is almost in the other direction and there's no point they had to do anything with Sultans of Pich..... so my friend chose very carefully. Was it Toochi or Dara I Pich ???? Azmarai76 (talk) 17:23, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

@: if you also see a straight answer to this question we can move ahead. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:26, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

But I never see no answer to my questions on Swatis so 3O will be the only thing left with us. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:32, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

If you suggest we can go for WP:CONTENTDISPUTE also. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:40, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

If the great Ghiljis were Tajiks or Turks, then they identified themselves as the greatest Pashtun tribe. Persuaded ... In the same way, with the passage of time, the Swati Pakhtuns have become a very important tribe, and now theirs. No one can deny the importance and reality. This Pushtun tribe has re-emerged with its glorious ancient history!. . . Haider khan10 (talk) 17:46, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

It's for you to decide brother we have all the experts available at Wikipedia. WP:CONTENTDISPUTE is something where they will check both our assertions and the matter will be solved. I am just waiting for an answer and USaamo can go ahead with it. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:47, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Bro we can talk about Ghilzais at their respective pages since you don't believe in me right now I'm asking if 3O or WP:CONTENTDISPUTE we can go for anyone of these as you suggest. Instead of repeating these things here it will help all Wikipedia users to know who Swatis are once and for all. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:50, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Remember it's not a social networking forum we all work just for correct info nothing else. Make a choice and I will also be there in front of a senior editors experts in history and you too so it will be decided in the best manner. I will move to other pages to work. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:54, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

What you know about language and culture has nothing to do with you. I wish you could learn a lesson from the great Ghilzis, learn some language and manners from them. The rest of the Swati Pashtuns don't need your certificate ... Smile now! . . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 18:02, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dear USaamo as my friend thinks he is correct so whichever option he goes for like 3O (which in fact he has used already in form of your intervention) or WP:CONTENTDISPUTE we can proceed with it. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:02, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I repeat noone's certificate but let's get it resolved by involving history experts. Let them decide you just chose which option should we go for.???? Azmarai76 (talk) 18:04, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I assure you we have many good history, genetics, and anthropology experts at Wikipedia all we need to do is refer this article to them. I am asking you as USaamo is already in the loop so don't want I do something on community portal directly. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:09, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Now stop jumping like a jerk and focus on the basic truths, and think a little differently from your old master historians, and the genetically close connections that are being revealed, surely all these things have bothered you. Would have given.,......Haider khan10 (talk) 18:49, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I guess I didn't address you like this but I would just suggest 3O or WP:CONTENTDISPUTE and you can make your assertions there. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:06, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

@ USaamo: I am all for it. No other option. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:08, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Always remember that you can never ignore the basic definition of a broad tribe.....Haider khan10 (talk) 19:10, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * he should get a chance to prove who Swatis are genetically, historically and socially. I am for WP:CONTENTDISPUTE. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:11, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I am giving you a chance through WP:CONTENTDISPUTE and resolve it there as for me it Wikipedia page that counts. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:13, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Remember its Wikipedia users who we protect we have been talking about it so much so let's take it to WP:CONTENTDISPUTE maybe you are able to prove yourself correct I won't have any issues. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:16, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Personally I will be happy if he can prove it to experts that he is a Pashtun so WP:CONTENTDISPUTE needs to be initiated. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:22, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * USaamo: I will just wait till you respond so there are no hard feelings for our friend here..... if he keeps pressing his assertions at this talk page they would just be wastage of everyone's time. Just go for WP:CONTENTDISPUTE. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:26, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

In fact, you could not answer some of my most important things, so you are now thinking of run somewhere else. The other thing is that in the beginning you were so quarrelsome, you didn't let a fly sit on your nose, now you have to deal with a Pakhtun !!!!!! Haider khan10 (talk) 19:37, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I won't be anywhere else I will be you at WP:CONTENTDISPUTE. If you prove you are correct I won't have any problem and if my assertion is approved i will be correct or even if they think we both are wrong they are the experts can do. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:47, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Like I told you many think Swatis aren't Afghans or Tajiks so let the dispute committee decide and it will be good also for Wikipedia users as they will keep the article locked so you or me or even USaamo can change it latter. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:50, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * can't change (sorry for the typo) Azmarai76 (talk) 19:51, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * a Pushtun is easy to deal with if he is one. WP:CONTENTDISPUTE would look into it. I am being courteous as USaamo told us he is also from this tribe so I am waiting for him and I will wait till tomorrow. After that I will go for WP:CONTENTDISPUTE myself. I hope brother you will be able prove Swatis Pushtuns. Azmarai76 (talk) 19:58, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

I will do my best to settle the matter amicably but unfortunately this man does not want to understand anything, I will keep quoting from my books. A book written in the 17th century AD, this person is just inspired by this book, because it contains the ideology of the father and friends like him have been deceived by this writer !!!! "History of the World Afghan Brain" ..... smile.....Haider khan10 (talk) 20:13, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Bro you can keep all this for dispute committee you have alot to say there so I am telling you all your books, genetics and anecdotal evidence too will be given heed. Keep this stuff for that as we both couldn't solve it here whether it's me or you. Let them decide. Azmarai76 (talk) 20:18, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * But I do accept I shouldn't have stopped some editors from changing the title of this page from Swatis(Pashtun tribe) to Swatis (Indic tribe). Azmarai76 (talk) 20:20, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * As a Popalzai I love Tajiks also as I know who they are and how important they are for we Afghans..... so I maybe misinterpreted Swatis also from indica to Pashtunized tajiks. Azmarai76 (talk) 20:22, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

We will accept it. Therefore, I advise to wait till tomorrow evening. Azmarai76 (talk) 20:31, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I will at dispute committee so will be USaamo or other seniors and history experts and everyone so keep your energy stored for it. Many regards Azmarai76 (talk) 20:41, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

If Osamo is from the same tribe. Didn't he see what he was talking nonsense about Swati Pashtuns, and if he didn't see then look and guess for yourself how much poison is in this person's heart !!!!! That is why I say that there must be some resentment in it, otherwise it would never have left the mark of distinction!.....Haider khan10 (talk) 21:11, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Who belonged to the Bhatni tribe, and which is the second largest tribe of Pashtuns. These include Lodhi Suri Swati and Khilji. Quote Khan Roshan Khan's book Tazkra! . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 21:25, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

If you can separate the small rivers from the great river indus, if not forget that you will be able to create some hypocrisy in the great Pashtuns !!. . Haider khan10 (talk) 22:05, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Are you threatening of committee or are you panicking, who want to get rid of me like this, the debate has just started and you are running away! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haider khan10 (talk • contribs) 22:17, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

If you can speak Persian and call yourself Pathan, I am still a Pashto speaking Pashtun! Now smile! . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 22:37, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

What Pashtun tribe has been defined as it wants to be, if not for someone else, then this unfortunate person has no right to describe Swati Pashtuns in this way! This is a tribe of millions of Pashtuns who speak Pashto and maintain their traditions.....I know you are watching....sleep well bro .. smiling.. Haider khan10 (talk) 22:52, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

No need to talk nonsense on my page, do whatever you have to say on this talk page, if you were Pashtun you would love Pashto and respect your culture. But alas, the so-called Baba got confused !!! Why don't you answer the question whether Qais Baba is mentioned in any hadith, if he had met the Prophet on any occasion then he became Sahabi and we do not find any mention of these incidents anywhere! smile pleaae....Haider khan10 (talk) 01:41, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

سل د زرګر ، يو د ګګر. . . . . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 02:00, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

چي ډب نه وي ، ادب نه وي. . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 02:09, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * is it your habit of ignoring others brother and repeating things or what????? Just wait for Dispute committee they will evaluate all your things they have the expertise let's stop arguing here. We will argue with them. Just relax and let them join in . Azmarai76 (talk) 02:57, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I told you committee is a panel of experts and they evaluate who is correct and who is wrong..... further I will be with them and you too. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:00, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * this how it happens if we couldn't solve the origin of this tribe we have to go to them to see..... if it's jealousies, panicking, poor knowledge, twisting facts, or separating rivers so just wait and don't span this place anymore...... dispute resolution will resolve it. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:04, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Just waiting for USaamo or wait and keep your energy stored for dispute committee. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:13, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I will answer about Qais and his son Bet Neika in dispute resolution committee whom you want to be your ancestor. Only when experts from dispute resolution join in......... just relax I assure you these guys are good professionals and have evaluated thousands of such matters. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * let's just wait for him. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:18, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I mean wait for USaamo and the dispute resolution to join in noone wants to get rid of you and I repeat they will give you the time and they too will evaluate each and every reference you will present. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:28, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * As a gentleman I wait till the time I had given you earlier and you can move on after the evening once they ask for rivers, references, poetry, logic, and all so I will tell you to just wait till then. Azmarai76 (talk) 03:39, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Btw, Bet Neiks wasn't ancestor of Sultans of Pich as their ancestors are known. Therefore, wait for the dispute resolution committee. Dispute resolution will now have the right in whatever way they want to rephrase the article and what they write about this tribe. Like I told you I just have to see and make corrections to pages for Wikipedia users. Wait till then. Make your claims with care with Dispute Resolution committee. Azmarai76 (talk) 04:35, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

What a simple question has been asked that Qais Baba went to meet the Prophet? if yes, then Sahabi, then why is he not mentioned in any book of Hadith. Why do you take such a big sin on your head, then do you also believe that Khalid bin Waleed had married his daughter to him ... whereas today Pakhtuns do not believe in these superstitions. This is called blind imitation !!! Brother, come to your senses, why are you trying to prove the truth of the things that are not in the hadiths. Now have you read the latest information about Sheikh Beat, who has mentioned him ???? . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 08:56, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

All the friends on the committee are very dear to me, and I respect all the friends, including Asamo. But here the question arises as to why you are becoming so respected, while you have never been in such a discriminating debate, panic is dripping from your attitude !!! . . Haider khan10 (talk) 09:21, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I will answer that if you tell me why did Swatis try to look as :-

1. Descendants of Qais

2. Descendants of Qais through Bet Neika and thus Bettani.

3. Even Tehqikul Afghan that you mentioned even did a greater blunder by making Swatis biologically same as Yusufzais. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:45, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

As to why I am being respectful that's because we have understood that the conflict can only be resolved through dispute resolution committee. Else, you used 3O also and USaamo came up with two descriptions that you turned down. Fighting and arguing is of no use so we decided that instead of arguing here we better refer it to the dispute resolution. Did you get it now ???? Azmarai76 (talk) 10:48, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

You also complained about Bettani page therefore that too has been put on notice board for senior editors to look into. Whatever changes were needed like Matti tribes Lodi, Marwat and Niazis are only descendants of BiBi Mattu and directly Beit Neika has also been taken care of. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:52, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Such problems arise when editors with poor understanding ok english come and insert their lines without knowing it will change the meaning of the overall article. A daughters son isn't same as son's something that someone fiddled with at Bettani page. Azmarai76 (talk) 10:56, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * As far as I myself is concerned it's just a Wikipedia where I am just looking for interest of users and this isn't the only place alone. I had tried to keep the label of the article as Pashtun Tribe and under it their origins were mentioned as Dehqans who got Pashtunized. Azmarai76 (talk) 11:07, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I hope you will answer the above three questions won't fly off at tangent this time. Azmarai76 (talk) 11:11, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Think one thousand times before answering my above three questions as it's sin to calaim call yourself someone's son who isn't your father. [HADITH MUBURAK] Azmarai76 (talk) 11:46, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

That is why I am asking you why you are considering an unknown person as your ancestor, isn't it a sin, because there is no mention in the hadith ... how are you asking the children questions again and again, how many times have you spoken? Swati Pashtuns speak Pashto and preserve the wonderful culture. The rest is a suggestion to get out of the so-called Baba's circle !! .see you. Haider khan10 (talk) 12:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Qais is ancestor to those with whom he is associated RM512 Haplogroup..... so for us it's understandable. Why do everyone thinks Qais is his ancestor too. That's why I had earlier told you to refer to History of Afghans by Dorn B. Non of the tribes except Sarabarnis or Durranis have been associated with Qais but with translation of the book all have taken him as their ancestor.

The only definition that really matters is whether a person is Sarbanrs Karlanrs Bettani or Ghorghust. You know better Swatis are non of these but do try to attach themselves to these tribes without any proof historically...... why don't they just settle down with Pashtunized people like all others is something I don't understand. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:26, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * babas circle what's meaning of it so why did you change the article then ???? Azmarai76 (talk) 14:28, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Plus why do you Swatis make pedigree tables linking yourselves to Qais??? Azmarai76 (talk) 14:30, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Isn't this bad and giving wrong info to the people at Wikipedia???? Azmarai76 (talk) 14:35, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * be happy all of us what we are born and not become something we aren't. USaamo came up with nice wordings I hope becoming a Pashtun and Pashtunized is the different. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:38, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

sorry Azmarai76 (talk) 14:46, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * anyway bro let @USaamo come we will proceed further with this what to do about it ??? See you. Azmarai76 (talk) 14:50, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Sorry bro we can't make you a Pashtun as you aren't Sarbanrs, Karlanris, Bettanis and Ghorghusts which you do try to be ..... I hope you remain a Swati as you are born... Azmarai76 (talk) 15:08, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Let's wait for USaamo while I work on an British Army page till then. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:13, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

You have been given the right to distribute a certificate on Wikipedia about who is who? now you will drown the British Army article, because your nature is full of quarrels. Learn a lesson from the great Ghilji Pashtuns, how they are great Pashtuns even though they are not the children of Qais Baba!. . . Haider khan10 (talk) 15:38, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

It has its own ideology, it is also debated in our Pashtun Swatis, all my emphasis is on language and culture, but on the other hand I have to endure the opposition of friends in the cells, but only to the point of persuasion. Lasts until Many friends consider Qais Baba as their ancestor.........Haider khan10 (talk) 15:38, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * So what are you proposing now Qais is your Baba and Qais isnt your baba ??? Leave me pure Indic Ram Ram Ram attitude you have..... I understand now why are you called indics hahahaha Azmarai76 (talk) 15:42, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Those who proposed this origin for you guys was hundred percent looking at your attitude.... do you all are the same sorry no Pashtun is like this..... as you are behaving brother relax. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:45, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I told you let USaamo come and disengage till then. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:47, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Wow, what about those of you who became Pashtuns without Pashto ... Looks like you're making a fatal mistake !! Who rescued you from Pashto? hahaha........Haider khan10 (talk) 15:50, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I told you brother what makes you think a person can or cannot speak Pashto ?? Why do you always miscalculate ??? Wikipedia is in English so I communicate in the language that's used here. Secondly, I had qouted a few things from Tarikh I Ahmad Shahi for you, I hope you have read the book. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:53, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * It just takes you two seconds to call a person "unknown ancestor" and " Qais baba" ????? What manners what nice Indic culture.... Actions really speak louder than words. Azmarai76 (talk) 15:56, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Will there be people in your own family who do not consider Qais Baba as their father, or are they all suffering from this disease ?? Brother, do not blame yourself, then I say if there is a hadith, then speak, otherwise do not leave long !!! . . . ۔..smiling ...Haider khan10 (talk) 16:02, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * As far as character is concerned I need not to repeat Captain Waces' notes here, ..... are qurrelsome, grasping, reverse of warlike, lethargic and so on..... whatever, you are writing I assure you is in a social networking website style and Wikipedia doesn't work like it. Normally, people get away with whatever disruptive editing they do I got you as this page was on my watch list as many brothers before you would make this tribe Yusufzais. Azmarai76 (talk) 16:12, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * people in my family if they believe in Qais Baba they rightly do it as we are Popalzais with RM512 as our Y chromosomal group and we are also known to be the direct descendants of Qais. There is no confusion amongst us. The problem is with people mentioned in this article. Azmarai76 (talk) 16:15, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Yusufzais, Bettanis and even claim to have descended from an ancestor of Qais baba three different claims only after 1960s..... after I guess the changing location to the other side of the river made them forget what identity of race is..... sorry bro this is what recorded. Azmarai76 (talk) 16:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Don't forget to read TV he footnotes on pact with devil over carrots..... you will enjoy it.... I'm sure.... Azmarai76 (talk) 16:21, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * it's funny too, and onething more ... the more you write here the more you expose yourself so I again will tell to disengage..... I am waiting for USaamo as I gave him my word that I will honor his mediation before going for dispute committee. Azmarai76 (talk) 16:24, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * let's just wait for him. Azmarai76 (talk) 16:32, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * once in a while listen to music it helps remain calm ... it's hard to get back just upon a smile .... it was a joke ... Azmarai76 (talk) 16:41, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother, why don't you give the right answer, and why don't you quote any hadith, if your Qais Baba had gone to Madinah and met him, then why there is no mention of him anywhere. There is stubbornness of coercion, just shouting but not being able to present any evidence. And then more cruelty is to take Khalid bin Waleed in the middle too !!! Take the nails of consciousness and put your hand on your heart and say whether your conscience sees that such a man is your parents. Believe me, it starts with a lie ... Afgana name proved to be a myth also !!!!! . Haider khan10 (talk) 17:04, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * No my dear brother Qais babas going to Madina has never been recorded anywhere in the real copy of the book that has mentioned his pedigree..... it was latter that subliterate people who wrote books for afghan propaganda included this as part of the book during translating it to Hindustani and other languages. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:09, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Qais Baba was ancestor to Sarbanris and Bettanis (Matti not included) ..... it's only for the people who don't know Persian, english or arabic they trick. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:12, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Qais Baba was ancestor to Sarbanris and Bettanis (Matti not included) ..... it's only for the people who don't know Persian, english or arabic they trick. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:12, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * An example is Tehqikul Afghan, Tazkira, Solat I Afghani, and others..... check their sources the interpretation they give to paragraphs is what serves their purpose. Reading the original books is therefore always recommended. Azmarai76 (talk) 17:14, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Did you forget so quickly that what you said about Suri Lodhi Niazi Marwat Shalmani Bangash Sherani Mashwani? ???? Haider khan10 (talk) 17:23, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Afghan isn't a myth but the way the term has been explained made it lose what it really meant.... Azmarai76 (talk) 17:25, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * did I ever say they are descendants of Qais ???? Azmarai76 (talk) 17:26, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

I have told you Lodhis, Marwats and Niazis are Bettanis only on mother's side so how can Qais be their paternal ancestor???? Azmarai76 (talk) 17:27, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Brother, why do you manipulate words, you were the one who disrespected these tribes !!! Come on, even if your word is accepted, will you feed these Pashtuns according to your ideology, while the race is run by the father ... In my serious opinion, they are great Pashtuns.۔۔۔۔۔۔Haider khan10 (talk) 18:02, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

At that time your tone was very harsh, but now you look soft, which is a good thing! It will come to you when you listen to someone else ...Haider khan10 (talk) 18:08, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

You also mentioned Bangash Sherani Shalmani and Mashwani. . . . . . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 18:18, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

As to Qais Abdul Rashid and origin of Pashtun, to my defective knowledge I believe it's not something confirmed duly and is one of popular theory among Pashtuns due to their religous affilliations. USaamo (t@lk) 18:21, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

I request you again to accept the lede I proposed for the article. There's nothing that I'm censoring. Just asking you to let the lede be neutral and rest add everything as per sources in the body. USaamo (t@lk) 18:29, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I guess do I need to repeat Pashtun is the one who belongs to one of the four conglomerates. The rest of the races can't be defined as Pashtuns per se due to their geographical distances, different tribal interests and others. Now why have Pashtuns stopped others to be included that's one way of keeping one's line intact. I am sure a Swati would never want a person from another tribe to enter as their own phenomena very common in the tribal society.


 * Btw, I have never insulted any tribe there is definitely some misunderstanding if I have said something it must be an answer to a question from someone. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:44, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * @Dear USaamo welcome I assure you of my support to you both i wish i wasn't just an acedemic and a nationalist politician I would have said yes to change in racial identity of Swatis. I agree with USaamos lede and even if Haider khan10 wants am okay if the tribe is written as bilingual in both Pashto and Hindko, but ignoring their origins would again confuse the youth who come to know who they are and would be confused always as some claiming Bettanis and others Yusufzais. I see this important for their own tribal honor very important. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:51, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * As far as Qais is concerned even at that time Islam was in very early stages so one can't say if Qais or people in his times were all muslims or semi muslims as we are sure they were after all converts far away from Arabia. Azmarai76 (talk) 18:56, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I firmly believe that the origin of the tribe is a must mention and no one should run away from it. I'm not required to tell my personal feelings here but as I told somewhere above that being of Persian origin is even more proud feeling for me because of a great history. But anyhow it doesn't matter what my or anyone else's personal feelings are because it's an encyclopedia, it requires to be neutral WP:NPOV. USaamo (t@lk) 19:07, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Without further delay, my recommendation for this article would be something like this. "The Swatis are a Pashtun tribe. They live in Mansehra, Batgram, Malakand. According to many historians, the Swatis are ethnic Tajiks", and then with book references we can expand the scoop of this article?. . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 19:07, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Please accept it now. There is no point in repeating too much. Both cultural and ethnic points have also become clear? . . Haider khan10 (talk) 19:24, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oky than there's no reason to discuss here anymore. I intervened in the discussion on an admin's encouragement and tried my best to get you both to a consensus but all in vain. I'll suggest  to take it to some other forum as better suited. I'll come there with my report of the dispute. Peace out! USaamo (t@lk) 19:27, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

I have tried my best, but if anyone is stubborn, I can't do anything about it. By the way, USaamo and Azmarai thank you very much for your efforts!. . . . . . . . .  I am Swati Pashtun....smile for you now!. . . . . Haider khan10 (talk) 20:07, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Fully-protected edit request on 23 September 2020
Please change from (urdu سواتی، pashto سواتیان) to (Urdu: سواتی, Pashto: سواتیان). Edit: (in wikitext: ) BengkelBerkah05 (Talks/Contribs) 14:05, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:28, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 November 2020
59.103.206.98 (talk) 07:36, 30 November 2020 (UTC) https://www.wdl.org/en/item/17690/view/1/135/#q=Allaiwals
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Thjarkur (talk) 08:45, 30 November 2020 (UTC)