Talk:Sweet Briar College/Formerly A Finishing School

Formerly a finishing school
(Newbie IP address editor comment moved to separate section for response):

Sweet Briar additionally did not start as a finishing school. Please see the charter and Indiana Fletcher Williams' will for detail. https://archive.org/details/copyofcharterofs00unse 72.221.71.203 (talk) 00:36, 12 March 2015 (UTC)


 * There are five footnotes supporting this history section saying Sweetbriar --in the past-- was considered a finishing school.  Two books (one citing Supreme Court Justice Black) and three articles. One of the articles is by a Sweet Briar alumna. The articles all say it never entirely escaped its finishing school reputation.  Since the school's reputation is one reason for declining enrollment, and the difficulty of coverting to coeducation (as discussed in the following section on reasons for its closing)--the information is significant, and germane.  To respond to the real concern, which falls under the rubric "the truth hurts, but it can also set you free--"  finishing school was considered an accolade in 1922 or 1955; indeed it was a badge of social distinction.  Only in post-1970's modern sensibilities does it become (to some) an embarassment. Not to all. Miss Porter's School is respected, within its milieu.  But this section is about Sweet Briar's history.  As one article (quoting an earlier one on closing women's colleges here says "[these women's colleges] were created for a time in which women’s opportunities for higher education were limited. The fact that this is no longer the case is something to celebrate: 'if women’s colleges become unnecessary, if women’s colleges become irrelevant, that’s a sign of our success.'” ElijahBosley  (talk &#9758;)  13:23, 12 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Being "well cited" is not necessarily correct. You yourself described SBC as having a lackluster education (false) and this was clearly put in by someone spurred on by recent events. It's irrelevant to the history of the college. Remove it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.38.186.4 (talk) 15:53, 12 March 2015 (UTC)


 * An alumna involved in the effort to save the school says here "Sweet Briar is no finishing school." The denial suggests there is an assumption in need of denial. That may be true now. It was not necessarily its reputation.  Again--we are talking about history (and maybe that fact could be better underscored).  I don't think it serves much purpose to get into whether Justice Black was wrong 50 years ago in viewing it as a school where scholarship would not "play too big a role in a woman's life." Nor whether contemporary academic rigor or acceptance rate have to do with its decision to close.  The Board chose to focus only on economics, and so does the article detailing that decision, rightly in my view.  ElijahBosley  (talk &#9758;)  16:12, 12 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Sorry but the sources supporting this assertion are pretty good and the information is relevant so we need something much better than "I don't like it," "I disagree," or "it's embarrassing" to omit it from the article. ElKevbo (talk) 17:16, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Editorials and opinion articles are not BASES for FACTS. Either find some *historical* and *factual* sources, or delete the sentence. Or, conversely, introduce a media section, if you insist that someone's personal opinion be included in this entry.173.69.33.203 (talk) 06:46, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I have expanded the language to clarify that this is history, albeit history that affects the school's current circumstances. ElijahBosley (talk &#9758;)  12:35, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Here's an alternative, based on the 1915 cite to Sweet Briar Magazine objecting (politely) to the moniker finishing school. How about this: “Throughout its 114 year history Sweet Briar alumnae have objected to calling it a finishing school.” (citing 1915 article objecting to that reputation, the sources calling it a finishing school, bookended with the 2015 article objecting to that reputation.) Then on to declining enrollment because of reduced interest in women's colleges. I must respectfully demure on lack of interest in the liberal arts. The liberal arts are alive and well at selective small colleges like Williams. Kenyon. St. John's, with it's Great Books curriculum. And big schools like U Va. It is women's colleges that are going away, because the necessity or social circumstances that called them into existence, are going away. ElijahBosley (talk &#9758;)  16:54, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

It's beyond creepy that one or two WP users insist on constantly bringing up the old canard--which is always used to disparage women's colleges and education--"finishing school." (Even creepier to try to dismiss the facts as "puffery.") It's opinion (misogynistic opinion at that), it's completely irrelevant, it's inappropriate and the facts regarding SBC's provenance are well-founded. And why now? I've checked this page many times over the years and never seen that nonsense. Stop using WP as your soapbox. 108.30.84.131 (talk) 17:41, 15 March 2015 (UTC)