Talk:Swing bowling

Separation points.
The discussion on turbulent vs laminar sides, and separation points, seems opposite to the way it should be. On the 'turbulent' side. would not the point of separation be more forward? To use an airfoil example, an aircraft wing stalls when the point of separation moves forward of the centre of pressure. Ie, the centre of pressure is in the turbulent region. -- Ch&#39;marr 06:37, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * 'Turbulent flow' and 'turbulance' or stalling, are two different things. An aerofoil will always have a turbulent 'boundary layer' between the air 'stuck' to the surface and the still air outside. A smooth, laminar flow is easy to break or disrupt, meaning that it breaks away from the surface easily. 'Turbulent flow', which means that the change between surface layer and ouside air takes place with turbulance, is much more robust. To give you an idea, these layers are generally less than a milimeter thick.
 * 'Stalling' happens when the boundary layer completely breaks away from the surface, and no longer has any aerodynamic effect on that surface. This is akin to the seperation point. See the 'Science of swing' link in the article.
 * Aerodynamics is full of counter-intuitive behavior like this.Robbak 06:16, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Swing Bowling Tips
I removed this section, because it's pretty much an instruction manual. — sjorford++ 17:26, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


 * A very slight change in your action (by tilting your body at release for instance) can completely negate swing. Try to stay upright and if you find yourself becoming tired and losing swing, take a break.
 * Polish one side of the ball vigorously on your flannels and ask the fielders to do likewise. Some say rubbing sweat into the ball can increase swing. Experiment, but remain strictly within the laws and spirit of the game!
 * A fuller delivery is more likely to swing but less likely to carry. A good length is often the best target for an away swinger and a fuller length for an inswinger.
 * A little bit of swing is usually more effective than a pronounced amount as most batsmen cannot connect with a prodigously swinging ball. The old adage is that you only have to swing the ball a couple of inches to find the edge of the bat. If you are getting too much, try bowling with the seam straighter.
 * Sometimes, "trying" to swing the ball is counter-productive. In swinging conditions the ball will swing on its own, so control it but don't "force" it.
 * If you are no longer getting swing from the ball, try bowl cutters or breaks or varying your pace.

Reverse swing
The article at http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/258645.html expounds the view that reverse swing is when the ball swings away from the direction of the seam, not necessarily when it swings towards the shiny side. Should we make note of this? Lfh 12:40, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's really a completely accepted definition that everyone agrees with. That article is certainly worth linking to as a reference though. -dmmaus 00:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Pakistan
These two adjacent paragraphs are contradictory, and the first one is POV. Any suggestions as to how to make the article more consistent? "In the early days of reverse swing, Pakistani bowlers were suspected of ball tampering to achieve the conditions of the ball that allow reverse swing, but today they are considered to simply have been ahead of their time.

Controversy regarding reverse swing has never left modern cricket, as the Pakistani team was accused of ball tampering during the fourth test against England in 2006 when the ball began to reverse swing after the 50th over."

Glow worm64 05:39, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * "Today they are considered" is pure weasel words, and the second is baseless, as there is no way for us to say that the ball tampering penalty was influenced by the reverse swing. JPD (talk) 13:41, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

No citation as yet. How about we delete the paragraph? Glow worm64 08:31, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Cutters
"Skilled bowlers can even make a ball swing one way, and then 'break' the other way upon bouncing, with an off cutter or leg cutter hand action." Surely a cutter can't swing, since the seam is scrambled - any movement in the air must be drift. Lfh 12:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Swing Both Ways?
I'm certain from studying a lot of instances of so-called "S" reverse swing that the later part of the swing is caused by the spin on the ball as it strikes the pitch off the seam. It is almost impossible to make a ball swing one way then the other in the same trajectory. AbrahamCat (talk) 07:34, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Deficiencies in the reverse swing section.
First of all reverse swing is not correctly explained; it has little to do with the seam and everything to do with the dynamics of golf ball dimples. When the ball gets old it develops what amount to 'holes' in the rough side. It is well established that the dimples in a golf ball smooth the airflow around it, making it go further, and a similar effect is at work here. The more smooth airflow over the 'rough' side makes it move through the air just like conventional swing, only towards a different side. This is why umpires suspect ball tampering, as a team will try to put holes in the rough side. Remember Afridi tucking into the ball during the one day series agianst australia? thats what he was trying to do, put holes in the ball to make it reverse. Also the 'S swing' bit doesn't stack up. It is possible to make the ball swing both ways in the same trajectory, but it has nothing to do specifically with reverse swing. 121.44.180.254 (talk) 09:26, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Wrong explanation of swing
The explanation offered for the aerodynamics of swing are quite wrong.

"Turbulent air separates from the surface of the ball earlier than laminar flow air, so that the separation point moves toward the front of the ball on the turbulent side."

No! This is the exact opposite of what happens, as is well explained in many places on the web, many of which are linked to in the article! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.169.70.207 (talk) 15:05, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't suck....
It says "The ball is then "sucked" from the region of high static pressure towards the region of low static pressure." No, that isn't true. The higher pressure forces it toward the lower pressure area. Just as one does not "suck" from a straw; the atmospheric pressure forces the liquid up the straw into the low pressure area. An aerofoil creates a low pressure area above the wing; this does not "suck" the wing upward. High P always moves to low P, and this provides the force. In physics, there is no such thing as "sucking"..45Colt 22:59, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

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