Talk:Swiss Air Force/Archives/2015/August

Comments
I have some additional information about the SAF:

1. there were only 62 Mirage III/S/RS 2. the F-5E/F Fighters are still in operateion, but there was a significant reduction from over 100 to about 58 and some of them are leased to the Austrian Air Force

The Air Defence branch of the Swiss Armed Forces are also a part of the Swiss Air Force, operation three air defence systems:

- FIM-92 Stinger MANPADS light Air Defense - BAe Rapier Mk. 2 SAM - 35 mm Oerlikon Skyguard air defence artillery system

Thank you for your attention, don't hasitade to ask for more. Greetings

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.65.112.42 (talk • contribs) 14:02, 5 September 2005‎ (UTC)

Merging
Couldn't this be moved to Military of Switzerland?--The4sword 23:09, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Logo
| This is fake then, correct? vlad§inger tlk  15:56, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Consistent
the article isn't consistent in tone. the summary is not all that conlusive. it leaves a gap of information in between the first and second paragraphs. improving the summary may do the trick. Freshymail-user_talk:fngosa--the-knowledge-defender 23:03, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Source incomplete!
The source 7 is incomplete, stating only "Lombardi, p.40–41." Is this a book? If it is, please provide the full information (at least author and title, possibly more). Furthermore, I think the corresponding paragraph should be verified again. Greeting from Basel, Switzerland.81.62.210.240 (talk) 00:18, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Much missing Informations, Much Wrong Informations
Many Air Bases are missing (Lodrino, Buochs,..), aircraft typs are missing (PC-12) Wrong numbers (F-5E, AlouetteIII). Outpasst Typs and Bases Are missing. Wrong informations: Bern is a civil Airport, F-5E are still in use  as Fighter, PC-9 is also used for ECM ...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Swisstestpilot (talk • contribs) 09:34, 9 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the information. Can you point us to reliable published sources that we can use as a basis for correcting these error?  Sandstein   09:48, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

http://www.lw.admin.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/dokumentation/assets/aircraft.html

http://www.lw.admin.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/verbaende/einsatz_lw.html

Well the Air Force Page is not 100% up to date talking  from 13 Alouette in April, there are at end of this Month only 8 left. By the F-5E thy dont count the F-5E/F at Meiringen and the one who is  a temporary exponat in the Trafficmusseum Lucerne because of the 100 year festival  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Swisstestpilot (talk • contribs) 10:09, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Because in this Articel so many Informations are missing or just wrong i had made some update, unfortunatly my english is not good enough for the english wikipedia. i hope some one can go trouh my writtings and put the articel about the swiss air force  in the right way. I have the re written page below. the main sources are the official homepage of the Swiss air force (some pages there exist not in English ,only in german)

The Swiss Air Force (Schweizer Luftwaffe; Forces aériennes suisses; Forze Aeree Svizzere) is the air component of the Swiss Armed Forces. It was established on July 31, 1914 but did not become a separate service until 1936, and an independent service separate from the Army until 1 January 1996. The Swiss Air Force bases are: Payerne(LSMP),Sion (LSMS) in western Switzerland and Emmen (LSME), Meiringen (LSMM), Alpnach(LSMA),Buochs (LSMU), Dübendorf (LSMD), Lodrino (LSML) and Locarno(LSMO) Jetfighters operate from Payerne, Meiringen, Sion,and Emmen. Only light aircraft and helicopters fly out of Dübedorf, Alpnach and Locarno. Lodrino is only used for the PC-6 Turboporter in support of the FSCH Aufkl Kp17 (Parajumper recon Platoon 17). The Buochs Jetfighter AFB is inactive, a so called "Sleeping Base," but can be reactivated quickly. During peacetime, Dübendorf is also the operational HQ of the Air Force. The Airport Bern -Belp (LSMB)is a civil airport but the LTDB (Goverment flightbranch of the Air Force) also has a base there. Payerne, Meiringen, Sion, Emmen and Buochs are equipped with aircraft arresting cables so the F-5s and F/A-18s can use their tailhooks if needed (usually only if the aircraft has problems). ts primary front-line air-defence fleet consists of 33 F-18 Hornets and 54 remaining F-5 Tiger IIs of the 110 originally purchased between 1978 and 1985. In October 2008 the Swiss Hornet fleet reached the 50,000 flight hour milestone. Despite their age, all the Swiss Hornet remain highly capable due to the Upgrade 21 (UG21) programme conducted between 2004 and 2009 at RUAG, while another Mid-Life Update (MLU) will begin shortly. By 2010 the Swiss Air Force intends to begin the Partial Tiger Replacement programme of the F-5 in the remaining squadrons that use it and hopes to acquire 22 new fighters, choosing between JAS 39 Gripen, Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale. However, the procurement of new fighter aircraft would almost certainly face political opposition from Switzerland's left-wing, anti-army and green groups. Patrouille Suisse, the Swiss national aerobatic team, which also operates the F-5, will need to change to a new aircraft, either the F/A-18 Hornet or the new fighter, but its future remains unclear. At the end of 2010 the Swiss Air Force will also be retiring its fleet 8 (once 60) Aérospatiale Alouette III, which will be replaced in due course by 2 VIP configuration Eurocopter EC-135s and 18 EC-635s. The first EC-635 was delivered on 12 March 2008. The Swiss Air Force is monotoring the Airspace 24h 356 days a year. The Helcopter and Transportairplanes operate mainly douring day time but also in the night. The Fighters usualy operate only from monday- Friday douring officetimes. Usualy douring such a weekday the Airforce held 8 Traningsmissions. Also in 1 Month they mad about 30 Visual Identification  of foreigen Militar and Gouverment Aircrafts.Douring events like WEF, Euro08 and so one  the Fighters are  on QRA and CAP (Combat Air Patroll)  24h   at every day. The swiss Air Force would like to have a few fighters 24H every day on QRA but with the limitete money who is aviabel is it impossibel (not only because it ned  a few Aircrafts more  the main reason is the costs of holding 2 AFB and the personnal 24h ready). The difficulty of defending Swiss airspace is illustrated by the mountainous character and the small size of the country; the maximum extension of Switzerland is 348 km, a distance that can be flown in little over 20 minutes by commercial aircraft. The noise abatement issues have always been a traditional problem for the SAF because of the Swiss tourist industry. Mainly due to these reasons, the SAF regularly participates in air-defence training missions with their Belgian, French and German counterparts, as well as NATO exercises. Very intensiv is the training with the French Air Force, the swiss F/A-18 often held life Air-to Air refuiling in France from KC-135 also french Mirage 2000 take part in exercises in switzerland and  French C-160 refuil swiss F/A-18 in swiss air Space, but  the swiss Air Force also suport the German Heeresfligher  when they practis Alpin Helicopterflighttraning in switzerland. }}
 * 6th Fighter Aviation Squadron - operating F-5E
 * 17th Fighter Aviation Squadron - operating F/A-18C/D
 * 18th Fighter Aviation Squadron - operating F/A-18C/D
 * 12th Air Target Squadron -operating Pilatus PC-9/F-5E
 * 13th Air Base - headquartered at Meiringen
 * 14th Air Base - headquartered at Sion
 * 14th Fighter Aviation Wing - headquartered at Sion{{#tag:ref|During peacetime the 14th Fighter Aviation Wing is based at Payerne Air Base. |gr
 * 16th Fighter Aviation Squadron - operating F-5F
 * 19th Fighter Aviation Squadron - operating F-5E
 * 4th Transport Aviation Wing - headquartered at Bern (VIP flights)

aircraft_electronic= F-5 Tiger Pilatus PC-9
 * aircraft_attack=
 * aircraft_bomber=
 * aircraft_interceptor= F/A-18 Hornet
 * aircraft_recon= ADS-95 Ranger

Source: Swiss Armed Forces - Air Force assets (p. 12); Schweizer Luftwaffe - Mittel: Flugzeuge, Helikopter, Flab  -   -

Withdrawn from service

 * Eurocopter Dauphin (-2009) VIP-Transport of the Goverment until 2008 with a Eurocopter Dauphin . Replacet by two Eurocopter EC 135 ( EC635VIP).
 * Learjet 35 (1987-2006)
 *  BAe Hawk T.Mk.66 (1987-2002): Tottal 19 Aircrafts. 18 Aircrafts 2008 sold to Finnland.
 * '''Dassault Mirage III
 * Dassault Mirage IIIC (1962-1999): 1962 one Mirage IIIC buyet from France (J-2201) since 1964 used as Prototyp for missiles, systems and the electronic equipment (who was differend to the Mirage IIIC) of the swiss build Mirage IIIS.
 * Dassault Mirage IIIRS (1964-2003): The Mirage IIIRS, 18 Aircrafts is the Recon version of the Mirage IIIS.
 * Dassault Mirage IIIS (1964-1999): Mirage IIIS, 36 Aircrafts is a swiss version of the Mirage IIIC. With the a american Radar, canards (sinc 1988) build by SF Emmen (today RUAG Aerospace), Chaff- und Flare-Dispenser and wiering for nuklearbombs. It was planed to buy more as 100 Mirage IIIS but because massiv cost overruns it endet with the 36 Aircrafts..
 * Dassault Mirage IIIBS (1964-2003) Trainingversion of the MirageIIIS 4, 2 of them lost
 * Dassault Mirage IIIDS (1983-2003) Trainingversion dof the MirageIIIS 2 Aircrafts as replacement for the 2 lost MirageIIIBS. A MirageIIIDS bis now in flyabel condition as HB-RDF iownet by the Musée Clin d'Ailes ESPACE PASSION at Payerne. Its possibel to have a flight with it for about CHF10000.
 * Hawker Hunter
 * Hawker Hunter F.Mk.58 / F.Mk.58A - Fighterbomber (1958-1994): its a upgradet version of the Hawker Hunter F.Mk.58 som of them are build in Switzerland. Tottal 152 Aircrafts.
 * Hawker Hunter T.Mk.68 - Trainer (1975-1994): The Hawker Hunter T.Mk.68 was the Hunter-Trainer build from the UK. These Trainers are build from F.Mk.6 (Single seater), who are first get rebuild for the svedish Air Force. Switzerland buyet 8 of this secondhand Trainers.
 *  De Havilland Vampire DH.100 (1949-1990): The De Havilland Vampire DH.100 was the first jetfighter for the Swiss Air Force . They had no Radar but a later build in Martin-Baker-Ejectionseat.
 * 4 Aircrafts Typ "Vampire" DH-100 Mk.1 (first 3 Exemplare as Testaircrafts, after the crash of one was a additional Aircraft ordert. )
 * 178 Aircrafts Typ "Vampire" DH-100 Mk.6 (3 build from spare parts)
 * 39 Aircrafts Typ "Vampire" DH-115
 * De Havilland D.H.112 Venom (1949-1983): The De Havilland Venom DH.112 Fighterbomber is in fact a upgradet Vampire with differend backside, Wingtiptanks and serial Ejectionseat.
 * 126 Aircrafts Typ "Venom" DH-112 Mk.1
 * 100 Aircrafts Typ "Venom" DH-112 Mk.4
 * 24 Aircrafts Typ "Venom" DH-112 MK.1R
 * North American P-51D «Mustang» (1948-1958): 130 Aircrafts buyet for a price of US$ 4000.- per Aircraft.
 * Messerschmitt Bf 109 (1938-1949):
 * 10 AircraftsTyp Bf 109 D-1 «Dora»
 * 88 Aircrafts Typ Bf 109 E-3a «Emil» ( 8 of them build by Licence)
 * 2 Aircrafts Typ Bf 109 F-4 «Fritz»
 * 13 Aircrafts Typ Bf 109 G-6 «Gustav»
 * 1 Aircraft Bf 109 G-14 «Gustav»

Withdrawn Airfields

In the WW2 and the Cold War time the Swiss Air Force had also this Airfilds, some of the are just landing strips on a field others where Fullsize Military Airbases:


 * Ambri (LSPM)
 * Ems GR
 * Frutigen
 * Interlaken
 * Kägiswil (LSPG)
 * Littau
 * Lodrino TI
 * Mollis
 * Münster VS
 * Raron (LSTA)
 * Reichenbach im Kandertal
 * Saanen (LSGK)
 * San Vittore GR
 * Sankt Stephan BE (LSTS)
 * Turtmann (LSMJ)
 * Ulrichen
 * Zweisimmen (LSTZ)

F-5 replacement programme postponed. Programme will start in 2019
"Current status [...] From 2011 the air force intends to start the Partial F-5 Tiger Replacement programme for 22 new aircraft. Candidate types are the JAS 39 Gripen, Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale.[12][13]"

http://www.vbs.admin.ch/internet/vbs/de/home/documentation/news/news_detail.38753.nsb.html Paper announced a feasibility study about F-5 modernisation to keep them in service until 2025, at least.

My command of the english language is quite limited. Will somebody be so kind to update the section?

Ciao, Walter — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.232.169.147 (talk) 09:06, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Stinger missile range 10 km???
Hello, the range of the stinger missile is far below 10 km (all MANPADS have a significantly smaller range). I was a qualified MANPADS operator and I remember a range of 3-4 km for the Stinger (maybe an older version) and also the english version of the stinger article puts 4.8 km effective range. So I changed the section air defense to 4.8 km for the stinger. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.211.223.185 (talk) 19:38, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

This article is missing many informarions and also not up to date.

Because english is not my native language, my texts are not well enoug. I have translatet  it from the german version of wikipedia, so the sources are the german wikipedia,  and in this case from the swiss air force homepage wehere only a few pages are in english, also i got this imformations from the Swiss air force magasins  Intra  and the anula Magasins of the Luftwaffe (swiss air Force) unfortunatly thes  exist only in german and french. i would be happy if someone can add this informations in perfect inglish on this article.

See also the german wikipedia http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweizer_Luftwaffe http://saf.hermannkeist.ch/ http://www.lw.admin.ch/internet/luftwaffe/de/home/dokumentation/assets/aircraft.parsys.79030.downloadList.69291.DownloadFile.tmp/milkennungen.pdf http://www.lw.admin.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/dokumentation/assets/aircraft.html


 * battle_honours=


 * commander1= Lieutenant General Aldo C. Schellenberg
 * commander1_label= Head of the Air Force
 * ceremonial_chief=
 * aircraft_attack= F/A-18 Hornet
 * aircraft_bomber=
 * aircraft_electronic= F-5 Tiger,Pilatus PC-9
 * aircraft_interceptor= F-5 Tiger,F/A-18
 * aircraft_recon= ADS-95 Ranger
 * aircraft_patrol= F/A-18 Hornet, F-5 Tiger, PC-7
 * aircraft_trainer= Pilatus PC-7/PC-9/PC-21
 * aircraft_helicopter= Eurocopter Cougar/Super Puma

Aerobatic team
The Swiss Air Force has the jetliner aerobatic team Patrouille Suisse, which utilizes each 6 F-5E (+ 1 spare aircraft)in a red and white livery and smokegenerator for airshows (and also as tragedtug or aggressor in training.The future of the patouille suisse is not clear, will they still use F-5E after 2017 or JAS39E or F/A-18C. The propeller plane aerobatic team, the PC-7 Team, use 9 PC-7 in standard conditions. The Hornet display team shows air shows with a F/A-18C. The Super Puma Display Team leads with a Super Puma or Cougar in front of the flight performance of the public. Often the parascouts the ParaRec Kp17 practs with a jump from a PC-6T over audience.

Axalp
With the threat of the 2nd World War and the concept of the retreat of the army and civilian population into the mountains (Reduie) Guisan was clear that the Air Force needs the ability in the mountains to attack enemy ground forces. To practice this Axalp was selected. After the 2nd World War the regular ground combat with jet airplanes Vampire, Venom and Hunter was practiced at Axalp, which were next to the cannon exercises and napalm bombs used. During the Cold War, military liaison officers from Western, Eastern and non-aligned nations were invited to the screenings. Nowadays Axalpfliegerschiessen Airshow Axalp is a performance show, the Swiss Air Force in the mountains for anyone interested. It is the only event where civilians (regardless of nationality), can see an Airshow in 1700 meters above sea level and see the live use of aircraft cannons. The use of helicopters in the mountains and high altitude with theS earch & rescue & firefighting demonstrations become a large part of the air shows.

About desing of the Current inventory Lists
I have seen that in this list by Origin by the F-5 stays also switzerlan because "built under license from the United States". Well In fact the F-5 were delivered by C-5 Galaxy to Emmen AFB in Main Components and build together by F+W Emmen (today RUAG)  also RUAG has an "Iron Bird" F-5E but could we name this realy build under licence' On the other hand, i ad this "built under license from the United States"  by the F/A-18 because 32 F/A-18  where reali build up from peaces  from RUAG (only J-5001 and J-5231 are build in the USA) also RUAG produced  parts not only for Swiss F/A-18  they produced also spar parts for the US.Navy  and the RAAF. And the Swiss F/A-18 have a titanium wingframe made by Pilatus. But in this case this should add also by all 3 helicopter types because  by them modt of the are also build under licence in switzerland, 16 EC635  are build  by RUAG in Alpnach, 4 in Donauwörth in Germany... so the next point  the EC635 are not french they are from french AND german origin. Also in the List in the line Notes, sometime stays the Homebase, sometime the Sqad sometime the kind of use.. i think it would be nicer if there is listet at every type the same, i recoment the use  and the homebase. Sqad are listet in the operational structur... but there are also some things missing for eg. it should be said that Sqd 12 is operating more than 50% from Meiringen AFB and Samedan civil airport because they are closer to the moost used shoting areas, also that Sqd12 uses often the F-5E in Patrpuile suisse colors as Targetugs. also Sqd 24 is missing this one shares the Pc-9 from Sq12 and use it in the ECM rol and shares the F-5F wit Sqd 16 and use them also with athe Ericson Vist5  for ECM. also Sqd. 14 should be listet as IFR School unit from Locarno. air Force HQ is not at Bern Belp some Air force offices are in the City of Bern the air force HQ is at the AOC & ADDC at Dübendorf AFB (in paeace time only). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.1.75.33 (talk) 19:51, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Mock-ups and serial numbers
I have removed the reference to a ground training mock-up again, it is just not notable, every air force has such training aids and almost all of them are of little note and no encyclopedic value. MilborneOne (talk) 19:41, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * It is not a flight simulator and it is also not just a 1:1 Model, It is a Mokeup who is equpedt with all Hydraulic systems and most of the electronic system, just laking real engines and Radar and it has a official Swiss air Force regristration (X-5099) FFA P-16 (talk) 07:38, 3 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Having a serial number doesnt make is notable, and that would be true for any airforce. Its just a non-notable training aid. MilborneOne (talk) 19:06, 3 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Obviously you have absolutly now knowleg about the Swiss Air Force, so stop deleting informations here! Simulators like the Superpuma /Cougar Simulator have no Imatriculation, but the Instruction Airframe F/A-18C has the Imatriculation X-5099 and is listet on the Aircraft inventary list of the Swiss Air Force this is what count.This airframe can also be used for training groundcrew  taxi handling.  The Swiss air force is not very big, so the insert of the imatriculations is not a blow up, it shows the systemathic of it and the roll the aircrafts are used in the Swiss Air Force. So stop playing here araound without having any idea how the swiss air force works.
 * FFA P-16 (talk) 10:28, 4 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Milborne One is correct in saying that neither the serial numbers nor the simulator are notable enough to include on Wikipedia. For non-notability of serial numbers, see WikiProject Aviation/Registrations. There are many simulators in the world, some built around real aircraft hardware and some unbelievably sophisticated. If one of the Swiss Air Force simulators is notable /among simulators/ for some particular reason (maybe historical or technical), then this can be explained and referenced. But just because it is important to the air force does not make it notable. Specific to your argument, possession of a non-notable serial number does not make a simulator notable either. &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 11:18, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

It is not a simulator. Simulators in the Swiss air force have no Regristration, but this Trainingsairfaime has one. It doesen't mather if in other Air force's such trainingsairframes have  or have not a regristration because this page is about the Swiss air Force and not about other Air Forces. Milborne One is here deleting informations. As long he don't knew anything about the Swiss Air Force ( he proofed that he knows nothing about it be deleting the informations about the Hornet Display Team and so one) he should keep is hands off the topic about the Swiss Air Force. Also deleting out the Sqadrons can bee seen as a very unfrindly act. FFA P-16 (talk) 15:22, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Please understand that if you revert again you will fall foul of WP:3RR (The three-revert rule) and risk being blocked from editing Wikipedia by an administrator. Other air forces have "Trainingsairfaimes" (sic) and they are as non-notable as the simulators. You should not need such obvious things explaining. If you wish to discuss other specific deletions, please do so. But do not restore your edits: I would strongly advise you to read the WP:BRD (Be Bold - Revert - Discuss) cycle of settling edit disputes. I would also strongly advise you that knowledge of Wikipedia's ways can be as important as knowledge of the particular topic concerned. &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 15:49, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * With regard to the squadrons, we British have a List of Royal Air Force aircraft squadrons and a page for each squadron. So I suggest you create a page for say a List of Swiss Air Force aircraft squadrons and (once you have enough material) a page for each one. But be careful not to add too much fine detail - for example you could base your level of content on the RAF ones. I hope this helps. &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 15:59, 4 July 2013 (UTC) [edited to add individual squadron pages 16:03, 4 July 2013 (UTC)]

@steelpillow On one hand you say just showing what actual aircraft type is relatet to what Sqadron and the sqadron logo is too much here for wikipedia, so a page about the Swiss Air Force sqadrons would be also to much details for wikipedia. Also such a page would be very hard to create because the Swiss Air Force is so smale it would be better to listen also withdrawen sqadrons (this would give 22 fightersqd and 8 transportsqd and a few 3-4 misc sqd) write about the active Sqd 11 the Tigers would give a lot of informations but about the long withdraven Sqd 9 red witch ist hard to finde any information who fit to wikipedia. The F/A-18C ground instruction airframe  X-5099 is a other toppic, it is not an simulator, before the Swiss Air Force used time expired Hawker Hunters  and later a F-5E for this task, aircrafts, as the Swiss F/A-18 fleet is very smale this is not possibel first it was planed to buy a  old F/A-18A from AMARG Davis–Monthan Air Force Base but it was cost efectiver to build in switzerland this usefull working Mockeup. This one is listet in the Swiss Air Force Inventory with the Tailnumber X-5099. Something other I dont agree is that Millborn One change the list of outpased Aircrafts into alphabetic order, the list ordered in time starting from the present (outpassing of the Falcon50 in 2013) to the older ones. Also the deleting of the Imatriculation is bad because the Imatriculation says a lot of the rol of the Aircraft in the Swiss Air Force. I can't agree that someone who knows nothing about the Swiss Air Force plays her around and delets information. The deleting of the actual Aircraft's tailnumber out of the list is nonsens, this tailnumbers did not made the page bigger, but with this tailnumber the roll and system of imatriculation in the Swiss Air Force shows the roll of the aircraft) FFA P-16 (talk) 19:30, 4 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi. Lots of points, I'll reply as best I can:
 * Listing the squadrons and their aircraft types is too much /for this article/ but not too much for Wikipedia. Only listing the pilots and other minutiae is too much for Wikipedia. One way you could try would be to create a "sandbox" page for yourself, say User:FFA P-16/Sandbox, write up the squadrons as best you can and then ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aircraft‎ if we can look at it, tidy up the English, etc. and advise on the best page to put it on. [Update] Your earlier list can still be found in this article's edit history. Let us know if you need help finding it.
 * Ground instruction airframes are not notable unless there is some special reason, for example if the airframe itself is notable from earlier in its life.
 * Re. the ordering of the list, I would have to think about that but it is really a separate discussion.
 * You say that the serial numbering (tail numbering) uses a special system. I would like to see this system explained, but it needs just a few examples to show the principles, not the whole list.
 * If Swiss writers routinely quote the serial number of an aircraft when writing about it, as a way of showing the information contained in the number, then you should be able to reference this. Such references might convince us that the Swiss Air Force is an exception to the general rule. We Wikipedia editors do like to see hard evidence, not just another editor's word. And, as you have noticed, we sadly know little of the Swiss Air Force unless someone can find reliable sources for us.
 * &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 20:03, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Based on information provided by FFA P-16 on their talk page I have drafted an explanation of the tail numbering system at User:Steelpillow/Aircraft. The intention is to add it to this article as a new section. What do folks think? &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 13:17, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Serials Numbers
I have removed all the serial numbers again, please do not add again, current consensus is that list of serial numbers is not encyclopedic. Remember that plenty of fan boy web sites cover this sort of trivia but it is not suitable here, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 19:06, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Informations about the Swiss Air Force Teams who have no own page.
It was rejectet to have a one page for the single aircraft teams, it was sayd single aircraft teams are not important enough to have a own page ( so what about this 2 ?Solo Türk and F-16 Demo Team Both are also single aircraft teams like the Swiss Hornet Display). How ever Both of this Teams are seen by the air force as  official team. Some persons (Tehe Banner)who not work regulair on swiss miltary topics or aviatic topics think ther are nno informations about this teams needet (history, awards, functions, aircrafts in the fleet) I see this  differend. BTW since July 2014 the PC-7 Team uses smoke so the PC-7 of the Team are differend to the other PC-7 of the swiss air force.



The F/A-18 Hornet Solo Display  is an aerobatics team of the Swiss Air Force. It derives its name from the F/A-18.

History
The F/A-18 Hornet Solo Display was founded shortly after the introduction of the F/A-18 Hornet in the Swiss Air Force in 1997. The mission of the F/A-18 solo display it is to show the flight performance and maneuverability of the F/A-18 at home and abroad at various air shows to visitors. From 1997 to 1998 the team was made of two display pilots, Stéphane "Punzel» Rapaz and Werner "Höffi" Hoffmann (Werner Hoffman today is the Commander of the PC-7 Team). Since 1999, the F/A-18 Hornet Solo Display has one display pilot only, which is often accompanied abroad by a former or future F/A-18 Hornet display pilot on the flight demonstrations. This is normally with a second F/A-18C as a reserve on the spot. Unlike the formation flight of view and with the support by the team commander on the ground, as with the Patrouille Suisse or the PC-7 Team, the F/A-18 Solo Display is not flown at sight or radio as Refernz but a program based on numbers, engine performance, angle of attack angle, speednumbers, climb & descents.The display is made with F/A-18C (single seat) without external loads, whenever it is possible from the F/A-18 fleet availability, the squadron maircraft is used by the squadron in which the current F/A-18 Hornet Solo Display pilot is a member. These are J-5011 Squadron 11 Tigers, J-5017 of the Squadron 17 Falcons or the J-5018 Squadron 18 Panthers. Is the Sqadron aircraft not available, the display will be flown with any F/A-18C. An exception was the first official flight demonstration of Stéphane "Punzel» Rapaz who completed it with the F/A-18D J-5233 and the flight demonstration at MAKS Airshow 2013 in Moscow where the flight demonstration with the F/A-18D (double seater) J-5232 was flown with attached wing tanks. Home base is Payerne Air Base.

Awards
The team has won several awards since its inception, for example
 * Paul Bowen Solo Jet Aerobatic Trophy 2006, 2007, 2009
 * 2.Rank for «the most accurate, polish and safe display» 2012
 * Commander Trophy for «best military display» 2012

Pilots

 * Julien «Teddy» Meister Escadrille aviation 17 seit 2014
 * Bernhard «Beni» Kocher Fliegerstaffel 18 2013
 * Ralph «Deasy» Knittel Fliegerstaffel 17 2010-2012 & MAKS 2013
 * Thomas «Pipo» Peier Fliegerstaffel 18 2007-2009
 * Michael «Elvis» Reiner Fliegerstaffel 11 2004-2007
 * Patrick «Dähli» Dähler Fliegerstaffel 11 2001-2003
 * Frédéric «Styff» Ryff Fliegerstaffel 17 1999-2000
 * Werner «Höffi» Hoffmann Fliegerstaffel 11 1997-1998
 * Stéphane «Punzel» Rapaz Escadrille aviation 17 1997-1998

The Super Puma Display Team  is an aerobatics team of the Swiss Air Force. It derives its name from the Eurocopter AS332 Super Puma.

Super Puma Display Team
The Super Puma Display Team performs at various events at home and abroad, the flight capabilities and flight performance of a AS332M1 Super Puma or Eurocopter AS532 Cougar. The Super Puma Display Team only presented the flight characteristics. The demonstration of external load transport, deposition troops, fire-fighting and rescue operations is not part of the display. The advantage of the Super Puma Display Team over the flying displays by airplane is that even in heavy cloud cover, the show can be presented. Also the team including helicopter can, before and after the show, by on the ground directly on site and visitors can then go to "rub shoulders". For the flight demonstration Axalp the Super Puma Display Team uses a Cougar, this opens up the show with the launch of flares. All pilots of the Super Puma Display Team are professional military pilots, they flywith the Super Puma, Cougar and the Eurocopter EC635 daily. Moreover, they are also often in charge of Search and rescue flights with helicopters equipped with a FLIR of the Swiss Air Force. Home base of the Super Puma Display Team is the Dübendorf Air Base where also training takes place (apart from the local training at showplaces on the day before the show).

Pilots

 * Major Lukas "Luki" Rechsteiner Team-Leader
 * Captain Philippe "Philippe" Weber
 * Captain Jan „Schwiiz“ Schweizer
 * Major Sébastien "Moogli" Bart
 * Captain Daniel "Nögi" Fausch
 * Captain Matthieu "Ghiri" Ghiringhelli
 * Major in General Staff Jeremy "Jerry" Faux