Talk:Sydney Opera House/Archive 1

Untitled
I saw that you requested a image of the Sydney Opera House, i took some pics my last trip you can find them here :

http://chmouel.com/web/index.php?/gallery/new_zealand/html/index4.html

under GFDL; Chmouel


 * I uploaded the file by myself i hope i didn't do any mistake sorry to have to do multiple edit. Chmouel

Thanks, Chmouel! Arno 04:56, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I don't know how it should be phrased, but in the article is say something to the effect "Utzon never saw the design completed". Later, it reveals that Utzon is not dead. This seems contradictory. Looking back, I understand that the early statement meant Utzon never _literally_ saw the design completed, but this could be easily misunderstood. I don't feel comfortable enough with the subject to edit, though. --SilentOpen 03:06, 6 May 2004 (UTC)


 * Well, the very next sentance says that he left Australia in 1966. Frankly, I'm not too worried. Arno 06:23, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

What is meant by.....?
The first sentence under the subheading Description says The Opera House ..... is 185 metres tall and about 120 metres high at its widest point. That may be what was intended, but why? Why have two heights but not state the width dimension when mentioning width. Moriori 22:40, Jul 2, 2004 (UTC)


 * It was a typo which your eagle eye spotted and which I've now corrected. It's about 120 metres wide, not tall, at its widest point. This little typo of mine has been there for months now, and will now have gone onto several other sites. Oh, the embarrassment.....


 * BTW, these statistics came from the Sydney Opera House website.


 * Arno 10:26, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Forced to resign?
To what extent was Utzon "forced" to resign. I am uncomfortable with this word. Certainly he would have been in a very difficult position and did not believe he had the support of the Governement to fulfull his vision - but does this make it correct to say that he was "forced"? --Wm 01:50, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Utzon was not paid for several pieces of work (notably plywood mockups) he had already completed for the task, which led to him drafting a letter to the government citing that he was 'forced to leave' the project (he never used the word 'resign', and it is difficult to tell if he really meant that). He thought they would come running back to him, but the government took this as an immediate sign of resignation, and publicly stated it as so. When they did offer him a job back, it was not in his previous role overseeing the whole project, but as 'design architect', working as part as an 'architects panel', under the 'government architect', who led the project, and had the only access to engineering and acoustic consultants. It is a very complex issue, but i think the important thing to realise is that the government were imposing more and more on the project, and Utzon did not want to 'just' work in a subsidiary role. So he was 'forced to leave' perhaps? It is a difficult thing to explain impartially without launching into a whole essay.... :Miscreant


 * Thanks for that, it is difficult to conscisely get the right meaning as you say. I was thinking of something along the lines "Utzon's position thus became increasingly untenable and he left the project..." but I am not convinced it is such an improvement. --Wm 05:26, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Just to make a correction - he never wrote the word resignation, but he did use the word in a minuted meeting (it is recorded in official government minutes). It was "accepted" on the spot - presumeably because the relationship between Utzon and the government had completely broken down.

Tkn20 23:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Interior?
What a magnificent building! Unfortunately I can't find any photos of the interior. Would anyone care to post some?

hËllÔ


 * It's actually illegal to take photos of the interior of the building without permission of the Trust. This is not in the Sydney Opera House Act (I've just looked), so is probably in the regulations enacted by the Trust under powers they have from the Act.  That said, there are probably pics around, but they will be official pics (copyright restricted) or taken illegally.  rst 07:16, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

How about a larger version of this image? It is from the inside of the Sydney Opera House. May be it's not so good because it's focused on the people, what do you think?

I will be happy to share any photos in this gallery

http://gillandtuan.smugmug.com/gallery/3641790/1/207422817

if you can let me know which photos you would like by entering your request in the comment field of the photo.

202.74.194.78 07:05, 21 October 2007 (UTC)Tuan

Construction
I've removed 'white birch' and replaced it with 'wood'. The article says the wood was from northern NSW, where white birch (a cold-climate northern European species) couldn't be grown, so it can't be that - MPF 16:45, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No War graffiti
It would be good if someone could find an image of the 2003 "No War" graffiti of the Sydney Opera House that is not copyrighted. It certainly was a striking image. --Stuart mcmillen 14:28, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Never mind a picture of the 'No war' graffiti just yet, there isn't even any mention in the text of that incident having occurred. In fact there is no mention of anything at all since the building opened in 1973. Are the authors of this article stuck in the 1970s? Ajayvius 10:04, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, events happening in three weeks time are not usually the sort of thing an article like this would focus on, but if there are actually historically notable events (rather than simply newsworthy events) that should be included, go ahead and add them. The article does actually describe development of the building that has hapopened much more recently than the 70s, if yoiu bother to read it. However, I am not sure why the "after the opening" section that was present when the original comment was made was removed. JPD (talk) 19:51, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Performance venues and facilities format
I've changed this confirm with the format of performing arts centres or arts centres which have multiple halls/ facilties under one roof.

Haven't had time to see if the various theatres have specvifc names, not just "Opera House", "Concert Hall" etc. If so, these can be changed.

Here's a sample format for ease of finding what is contained within a building of this nature taken from the Denver Center for the Performing Arts. See also Kennedy Center in Washington DC:

Vivaverdi 22:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC)


 * The Denver Center for the Performing Arts is a performing arts complex located in Denver, Colorado. With 10,800 seats in nine theatres, it is the second largest performing arts center in the world after New York City's Lincoln Center, and the largest of it's kind in the Western Hemisphere. The DCPA is a showcase for opera, theatre, a nurturer of new plays as well as the presenter of Broadway touring productions, and it has an award-winning multi-media production facility, a national training school for actors, and is the site of a voice clinic and research facility.


 * The Denver Center Theater Company presents world-class theatre in the facility.


 * The vision of Donald R. Seawell, it was founded in 1972 and is dedicated to excellence in the Arts.


 * ==Performance venues==
 * The complex houses the following performance spaces:


 * Boettcher Concert Hall, with 2700 seats, was the first in-the-round concert hall in the United states and was opened in 1978. It is the home of the Colorado Symphony Orchestra.


 * Bonfils Theatre Complex is the home of the Stage, Space, Ricketson, and Jones Theaters (as well as the Grand Ballroom) and was opended in 1979. The entire complex seats 1,680.


 * Buell Theatre has 2,884 seats.


 * Ellie Caulkins Opera House, with 2,268 seats, opened on September 10, 2005. It was originally known as the Auditorium Theatre before being rebuilt several times during the 20th Century to finally become the new Ellie Caulkins Opera House, named after the family which supported its creation. The historic Auditorium Theatre opened in 1908, in time to host the 1908 Democratic National Convention. Presently the "Ellie", as it has come to be known, is the home of Opera Colorado


 * Galleria Theatre

Here is a picture of the "NO WAR" graffiti [] 12.10.173.2 23:51, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Similar buildings
What are some similar buildings to the Opera House, I know one-the Hong Kong Exhibition Centre, but does anyone know any others? It's a pretty rare and unique building, but I'm sure there are some buildings which bare a resemblance to the Opera House, as I'm going to create a section about it. Jackp 11:29, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you explain why there is a need to identify similar buildings in the article? --Merbabu 13:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I think is notable if one has influenced the design of another. I'm trying to find out which out of the Lotus Temple and SOH was designed first.Uneffect (talk) 17:52, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The lotus temple was designed around 15-20 years later, (1970s-80s?). Difficult to talk about if it was an 'influence', being that the architect was an Iranian Bahai living in India, about as far away from Sydney (and its architects and engineers) as you can imagine.Miscreant (talk) 18:33, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

There is a very similar (in its concept) building. It's the Baha'i House of Worship located in Delhi, India. Look at it in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BahaiLotusTemple.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bahai_how_delhi-dawn.jpg

http://www.bahaindia.org/temple/index.html (official website)

(fredyrod, sept 16,2006)

World Heritage Site possibilities
Do you think the Sydney Opera House will one day be made into a UNESCO World Heritage Site? Maybe in the future? Even though Australia do have a significant amount of World Heritage Sites, it seriously lacks man-made cultural sites on the list. I know the Opera house is still quite young in its human-history and it may not have the kind of cultural-importance as sites such as the Pyramid complex or the Great Wall, but does anyone think it has the chance of becoming one? --67.2.148.11 06:08, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

It was inscribed in June 2007. I was wondering whether the infobox should be changed from to  such as is seen on most other UNESCO World Heritage sites. For example, Carlton Gardens, Auschwitz concentration camp, and the Giza pyramid complex. Thoughts? -Morstar (talk) 13:39, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Hyperboloid
We need a decent source for the original design of the roof sails. The source given for them being parabaloid, as much as it says anything, implies that the final design was hyperboloid, and so does not seem to be reliable. The text previously said that they were parabolas, but a parabola is not a three dimensional shape. JPD (talk) 09:37, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Acoustics
I was under the impression that the acoustics of the Opera House are pretty bad, and it's really not that well designed for opera. Am I dreaming? Stevage 09:04, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, you are in some weird form of nightmarish fantasy. I assure you, the acoustics in that place are brilliant. Atlantis Hawk  10:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hate to burst your bubble, but there are serious problems with the acoustics in the two main halls. They mainly affect the musicians, though - as a patron, you'll likely have a good experience listening to opera or classical music. Amplified music in the Concert Hall, however, sucks mightily for all concerned.Severin7 12:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Tramways Depot
it was once the tramway depot, shouldnt it be mentioned for that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexander101010 (talk • contribs) 13:51 22 September 2006

It might be worth mentioning that it was built on the site of the tramway depot. That is slightly different to saying that it was the depot, though. JPD (talk) 14:08, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

ok, i dont know that much about it, but i should put somthing init

sorry about forgetting to sigh my comment. Is there some program that signs it for me if i forget?

13:18, 23 September 2006 (UTC)~

Slippery steps
This may seem irrelevant, but have any of you noticed how slippery the outside of the Opera House gets when it's wet? I once slipped over 4 times! Atlantis Hawk 10:17, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Symbolism of the Building
Does anybody agree that there should be a few words on the symbolism? Obviously, it's the most powerful symbol of Australia's modernity, about to set off for new horisons like a sail boat.Dkviking 15:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * DOes that need a whole section? Can you find a WP:RS for that - or is it just WP:OR? --Merbabu 15:20, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Utzon or Arup changed it from hyperbolic paraboloids to Spherical sections?
Most architecture books i have seen credit utzon with this, although i can see it being highly likely that Arup had a hand in it. Someone just changed the original text of the article from crediting utzon to crediting arup, so it might be nice if someone could shed a bit of light on this for us (and maybe even find a decent source).

Miscreant 10:40, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I changed it - primarily because I had read it somewhere - but when it was changed back I did some research. I have updated the article to show both sides of the argument - I think it's likely that it was as things like this usually are, a little bit from both people. It seems most likely that Arup suggested the sphere as one of many possible variations and Utzon took this and made the curves all come from the same sphere. This is reading between the lines though - there is very little hard fact to be found. It is certainly true that Arup's took the forms and made them into something that could be built, so had a very large influence on the final geometry of the structure.

Tkn20 23:53, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Utzon's resignation
I have added a lot of material about Utzon's relationship with Arup and the client, and toned down some of the strident claims about Utzon's treatment. This is all primarily sourced from the new biography of Arup (an excellent book), which includes several chapters on the Sydney Opera House. I have also sourced material from Yuzo Mikami's book and from a few websites. What I've written could do with some more references if anyone knows any. I've tried to make things as balanced as possible, as it's impossible to tell categorically whether Utzon was impossible to work with or whether the client put him in an impossible position.

Tkn20 23:53, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Popular culture section
WHy was my popular culture section deleted? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheCoolestDude (talk • contribs) 14:58, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

A similar, much more thorough section was removed last year (diff). I don't know how relevant "in popular culture" sections are in general, but there's definitely not that much point in them in articles about landmarks as well known and often referenced as this. JPD (talk) 15:16, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Pop culture sections are rubbish. Generally they have nothing to do with providing information about or improving are understanding of the articles actual topic. What do we learn about the Opera House by the trivial information that it appear in the film Independence Day. Essentially, Pop Culture sections are NOT about the article's topic, but solely about the pop culture item (film, game, etc) listed. For this reason they have no place in an encyclopedic article. It would make more sense however, to list on, say, the Independence Day article that the Sydney Opera house appeared in the film. Merbabu 01:40, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

New works and reconciliation
Added a section on the reconciliation with Utzon and his re-engagement as an architect on the project. There is more to say on this, but couldn't find sources other than SOH press releases. Other works done/planned: Severin7 14:22, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Colonade on western exterior press release
 * Planned complete rebuild of Opera Theatre to new design based on Utzon's original (some details here, doesn't mention that planned changes are major and designed by Utzon as it's essentially a puff piece aimed at securing more government funding).

Infoboxes
It would be nice if the architectural and World Heritage infoboxes could somehow be combined into one; most World Heritage Sites are headlined by their World Heritage box with a photo. Cjs2111 17:30, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

60 Minutes television article
The Channel Nine Australia television show 60 Minutes ran an article on the SOH and Mr Jørn Utzon on Sunday 8 July 2007.

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/

Transcript available at: http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=276976

Channel Seven News Promo (for Monday, 6th Aug 2007)
Saw some news promo on sunday 5th (for monday 6th's news) about some guy who had the design before Mr Utzon "and has the house to prove it"... someone want to pretend to care/watch the news and figure out what's going on here? 218.215.40.4 20:08, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Acoustics design
is it true that the main hall has been designed in a way that regardless of the sitting position of the audience, sound reaching them is always of same quality throughout the hall ? what i mean is that no imbalance is observed in sound due to the position of listener. 05:55, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

No-one can say, as the quality of sound is subjective. But it is generally not possible to design a concert hall to have both good sightlines from every seat and equally good acoustics in every seat. I have seen many claims that the acoustic design of Sydney Opera house was very good - but very little hard evidence. Tkn20 (talk) 00:15, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Sydney Opera House is located in Ireland?
I come here to do research on the Opera House, and the very first line says it's located in IRELAND?

I'll undo it. Mortel3 (talk) 16:34, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

The design of the Sidney Opera house
This could be just an urban myth but i'll go ahead and post this anyway. I know that on the wikipedia article on Utzon says that he based his design on the act of peeling an orange. This statement is not cited but it could be true non the less. I on the other hand was told a different story about the design of the Opera house. According to that story Utzon's father was a boat designer and Utzon's design of the Opera house is based on one of his father's boat designs. If you look at the Sidney opera house (make sure you look from as many angles as possible) you can see that the arches look exactly like the front side of a boat flipped in a vertical position. The person who told me this showed me the boat design by his dad and i can say it looked exactly like the arches on the opera house.--Jóhann Heiðar Árnason (talk) 23:08, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

edits to performance venues and facilities section
I've made a start on tidying up some of the details in this article - correcting names (eg Concert Theatre -> Concert Hall) and updating some details, in the performance venues and facilities section. I'm not happy with it yet, but it's a bit better. Unless anybody has any objections, I'll work my way through some of the other sections when I've found some appropriate references. Machina.sapiens talk  06:33, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

hot dog stand
Can anyone confirm that there is indeed a hotdog stand outside the opera house for hungary travellers seeing the exterior? Landlord77 (talk) 14:07, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * And how exactly does this help the article? --Merbabu (talk) 20:19, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Not only for magyars but also for italy travellers and america travellers and japan travellers, not to mention australia travellers .... :) --  JackofOz (talk) 21:13, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * If you're Hungary, take a bite of Turkey... Argghhh! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:58, 31 March 2008 (UTC)