Talk:Sydney Trains A & B sets

In service
Is this section necessary? Aren't all the suburban lines listed here except Carlingford? What is to say they won't be used on the Carlingford? Will they really be used on the South Coast? Is there a reference for any of this? Endarrt (talk) 01:35, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Chucking in my 2 bits worth - For us it is better to see what lines they WILL service. So yes it is. Bcousins — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bcousins (talk • contribs) 05:13, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Also at this stage these trains will definitely not run on the Carlingford Line as there is insufficient power to run these trains especially with all the power draining technology onboard. YuMaNuMa (talk) 08:20, 17 July 2011 (UTC)


 * idk 110.175.179.55 (talk) 04:34, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Replacing S, L, R sets
Just a point regarding the A sets replacing all of the S,L and R sets - this has been proposed, it is not set in stone however. It was proposed that M sets would also replace all S, L and R sets as well, and yet it never happened. 115.128.25.180 (talk) 10:38, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Unless the lines are extended or a large number of additional service are added on then 600(?) new carriages will definitely be enough to replace the S, L and R sets. YuMaNuMa (talk) 08:45, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Ideas for audio and video clips
Anyone have better ideas on how to present these better, rather than have it under the image in the info box and/or the gallery? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wykymania (talk • contribs) 05:23, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps wide panoramic view of the vestibule of the train with features circled and labelled. It's better than having a several images at different perspectives. The removal of the computer generated destination display may also help remove clutter, we already have a fine video of the display board that is more than adequate. YuMaNuMa (talk) 12:37, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

File:A set initial concept.jpg nominated for deletion
I've nominated File:A set initial concept.jpg for deletion. You can view and comment on the deletion discussion at Harryboyles 09:30, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Rewording in light of B sets
G'day,

I was thinking that the wording for the introduction should be changed to allow the article to initially mention both A and B set Waratah trains. I propose it reads like this:

"The Sydney Trains A set and Sydney Trains B set are a class of electric multiple unit trains operated by Sydney Trains in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia. The trains were named Waratah by the NSW Government after the flower of the same name, which is the state's floral emblem. Their design is based on the M set.

The initial order for 78 series one A sets was the largest rolling stock order in Australia's history. The 626 series one carraiges make up around half of the Sydney Trains fleet, and replaced two-thirds of the 498 S set carriages. Delivery commenced in July 2011 and was completed in June 2014.

An order for an additional 24 trains of a very similar design was placed in December 2016. These are known as B set or Waratah Series 2 trains, with all sets expected to be delivered by late 2018. The first was unveiled in March 2018 and is to enter service in June."

I also suggest the title be changed to "Sydney Trains A and B sets". A good comparison to this sort of situation where one model of train has multiple iterations with different designations is the former CityRail L, R and S set article (now simply called Sydney Trains S set). Thanks, trainsandtech (talk) 05:06, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * UPDATE - As there has been no objection, I will now proceed with this as per WP:RMUM. Thanks trainsandtech (talk) 05:54, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I have actually decided to hold off for now. trainsandtech (talk) 06:02, 24 March 2018 (UTC)


 * I would support support the change once the B sets enter service (though I would change "a class" to "two classes" in the first sentence). The outer-suburban Tangaras also shared an article with the suburban version back when they were targeted separately. Gareth (talk) 19:03, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

B set manufacturing
There is conflicting information regarding the manufacturing location and arrangements of the B sets.

This SMH article says the following:

However, the Downer press release announcing the order says:

Other articles also say the trains will be built in China (though that information probably comes from the press release).

Neither Downer or the government have been talking up local assembly or the job creation that would result - something you would expect them to do.

So I believe the SMH article has confused the delivery programs of the first and second orders. Gareth (talk) 18:56, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
 * There has been some final assembly taking place are Cardiff. Pantographs, gondola connectors, etc. Just not as much as with the A set order. Cheers, trainsandtech (talk) 23:48, 3 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Is there a source describing that? Gareth (talk) 20:51, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Doesn’t seem so. Many official pages from Downer just mention “delivering” the trains. I think they’re just doing some final fitting out. Thanks, trainsandtech (talk) 21:32, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Scrapping of A set 42
There appears to be an edit war starting where User:SansJML keeps posting that this set has been scrapped although he has not produced a reliable reference to support this. His posts been reverted by myself and another editor but despite a request not to post again until a consensus was reached on this, he has again reverted my latest reversal of this post. So as not to continue any edit war I wont revert again but am of the opinion that until a reliable source is produced, we should not regard it as scrapped.Fleet Lists (talk) 05:41, 20 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Well, now we don't need to worry about that, as carriage D6342 was replaced by D6379 from the prototype/supplementary 4 car train. Edgar Searle (talk) 01:49, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Waratah traction and braking
Just a note that the data lists 8 traction motors, which is incorrect for Waratah.

Waratah has twin-motor bogies, so 4 motors per motor car, and four motor cars per 8 car set. That’s 16 motors in total.

The brake squeal mentioned in the article is due to the long bedding in of the brakes. This is because of the regen brake being applied down to 3kph, ie an unfortunate trade off of energy efficiency. You can find the energy efficiency information in my paper presented to CORE2010 (joint paper with Guy Collishaw).

Regards Phil Pearce. (I ran the Waratah design team - look me up on LinkedIn). 2001:8004:2730:BB66:9894:1F59:AA01:21D0 (talk) 19:34, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Hitachi involved?
Under the topic Construction and delivery it says The joint venture between Downer EDi Rail and Hitachi was established to design, manufacture and commission the A sets. Is Hitachi involved in this project? E235JREMU (talk) 13:48, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Second Picture
Isn't the second photo image supposed to be displaying a Waratah A set, and not the interiror, since the page is supposed to be about both the A and B set? The infobox should include a picture of the A set. MrActiniuM (talk) 03:46, 13 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I think that an interior photo makes sense because all other Sydney Trains train articles' infoboxes have exterior and interior photos. Also, your proposed photo appears to be a vertical shot, it shows a person in the way, the lighting is poor and it only shows the very front of the train, rather than more of the side as well. I would recommend using File:Sydney Trains A Set at Ashfield (cropped).jpg instead as it's used further down in the article, and it would better show the A set exterior. Regardless of whether or not an A set exterior image is added or not to the infobox, keep the interior image. Fork99 (talk) 04:10, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * What about the GIF? Is it fine to stay there? MrActiniuM (talk) 07:44, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Double deck
Shouldn't the article at least mention the fact that the cars are double-deck units? 220.235.78.155 (talk) 01:50, 21 June 2024 (UTC)