Talk:Symphony No. 4 (Mahler)

Mention of 'Irdische Leben'?
Should the article also mention the song 'Das irdische Leben' from the Wunderhorn cycle? This is the companion poem to 'Himmlishe Leben' and thematic ideas from it also appear and recur throughout the 4th. (for example compare the opening vamp of both song and symphony) Taking 'Irdische Leben' into consideration the symphony is a progression from earthly to heavenly. Additionally the appearance of material from the Rückert-Lieder song 'Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen' at the end of the 3rd movement signals the transition from earthly to heavenly.

The relationship of the 2 songs (and the different possible contexts of viewing "Himmlische Leben") is discussed in: Knapp, Raymond, "Symphonic Metamorphoses: Subjectivity and Alienation in Mahler's Re-Cycled Songs," Wesleyan University Press, Middletown CT, USA, 2003.

szintenzenesz (talk) 10:41, 21 September 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.233.139.84 (talk)

'Himmlishe Leben' and the Second Symphony?
Andy, old bean, can you please explain what you have in mind when you say that motifs from the song are found in No.2? I've done a lot of work on both pieces, and still can't tell what you have in mind! Is there something in the literature that I've missed...? Thanks! Pfistermeister (talk) 10:35, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Date of Composition
The article lists the years of composition as 1899-1901. However, Grove lists the work as completed in 1900. Thoughts? Cjeads1988 (talk) 00:03, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Due to the corrections he made during the 'full dress' rehearsals that late summer prior to the official world premiere in Nov 1901. The article now states 1900. 50.111.34.214 (talk) 06:53, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Key progression description
The first paragraph of the article has a sentence ending so:

"...the symphony employs a progressive tonal scheme ('(b)/G--E')."

What is the exact meaning of the parenthetical expression? If it isn't gibberish, it looks a little technical for an encyclopedia article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnOFL (talk • contribs) 03:01, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
 * It starts in G major (with some suggestions of B minor at the beginning) and ends in E major. Mind you, there is some sense to the traditional description of the symphony as being in G major, as G is clearly in command throughout the piece; even the closing E major has been prepared before and set up as a challenge to G major's authority, and while it gains enough power to close the work with satisfaction (mostly because of the third movement), G major is still clearly the main key. I would also say that there is quite a bit of sense in saying that the Second and Third Symphonies are in C minor and D minor respectively, too. Double sharp (talk) 07:37, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Length?
I'm sure many people go to a page such as this to find out the approximate length of the piece (I certainly did, as it's about to start on the BBC Proms tonight, but I have a 9:30pm departure deadline .. would hate to miss the ending!

Any reason why the 'info' section on pieces of music doesn't have a length estimate as standard? quota (talk) 19:26, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Untranslated German?
Is there a reason that certain words (notably the names of the movements) are in untranslated German, in the English Wikipedia? Isn't the normal encyclopedic practice to at the least put the English translation in parentheses beside foreign-language phrases? IAmNitpicking (talk) 14:05, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The movement names are translated. Not in the section titles though, because that would make some of the section titles very long. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 19:06, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

New Complete Critical Edition from Universal Edition
I'm no great Mahler buff, but the recent publication of a Universal's "New Complete Critical Edition" of the fourth symphony (See here) has crossed my radar. I suspect the publication occurred around the time of, or after, this article's promotion, and I believe it has not as yet been used for any public performance or recording. Does it merit a mention in "Revisions and publication"? In addition that web page at Universal Edition's website has some images that I think Commons would regard as PD. William Avery (talk) 10:21, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Modulation
After "Floros calls the coda's introduction "the most splendid passage ... of the entire Symphony".", wouldn't it be wise to state that the reason for its notability is the fact that it is a sudden modulation to E major, rather than simply stating that an E major chord is played? Could you include "modulation" in the sentence describing it? Wretchskull (talk) 13:07, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Floros does not explicitly mention the modulation as a reason for the coda introduction's notability. Furthermore, there are various other musical qualities besides modulation that could conceivably contribute to the passage's notability, so it could be misrepresentful to only point out the sudden modulation as a reason. However, if you have a source that does find modulation to be the primary reason for notability, feel free to add it to the third movement analysis. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 17:22, 18 August 2022 (UTC)