Talk:Symphony No. 4 (Nielsen)

Attacca subito
There are pauses and the indication of 'attacca subito' does not acoompany these pauses to the best of my knowledge. Does anyone have a score? David Hately (2nd/Contrabassoon of the Bardi Symphony Orchestra) 62.49.61.149 (talk) 01:48, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The only pauses are between mmts. II and III (fermata over a rest within the measure) and after the violin 32nds that start/introduce the finale (single empty bar of 3/4, in tempo). There are no "attacca subito" indications.  134.173.80.167 (talk) 18:38, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm going purely by my memory here, but I think there are also no indications of movements in the conventional sense...no I-II-III-IV anywhere, no final-stop double bars except at the end of the whole symphony, etc. This minute I can't remember if the rehearsal numbering starts over at what are conventionally seen as the "movement" beginnings, but I suspect it doesn't. --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 21:18, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * None of my recordings of this piece mark the tracks as separate movements, and they even seem to differ slightly as to where the fourth track/movement should start.--86.52.97.1 (talk) 16:09, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Orchestration
I don't believe that Nielsen uses the contrabassoon, but I will check and get back. --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 13:39, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The contra (doubled from 3rd bassoon) has a single note – a long sustained pedal B in the lead in to the final section of movement 4. Vilĉjo (talk) 19:58, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Confirmed - there is a single note for contrabassoon which opens the coda to the fourth movement. David Hately (2nd/Contrabassoon of the Bardi Symphony Orchestra) 62.49.61.149 (talk) 01:35, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Oddly enough, while this pitch lies in the range of regular bassoon, another pitch in the Bassoon III part does not: Nielsen has two low A's for Bassoon III in the "glorioso" section of the finale (12th/18th measures of r. 50, m. 838/844 of the piece or m. 168/174 of the finale, if one considers the finale to start at r. 42). The player can get these pitches by inserting a tube (generally cardboard) of appropriate length into the bell of the instrument for this passage.  134.173.80.167 (talk) 18:35, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * That low A was actually built into some bassoons in the years before WWI. Nielsen also includes it as an option at the end of wind quintet, and Mahler uses it in the 5th Symphony (probably elsewhere too). I have seen pictures of bassoons from that time with extended bells (either straight or curled over, like a baby contra); as I recall, there was an extra key for the LH little finger to use to operate the mechanism. --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 21:18, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Discography
It would be worth noting which recordings change Nielsen's orchestration. For example, I know that Blomstedt's with San Francisco does, reinforcing some of the big climaxes with additional low brass. Subtle changes may be hard to detect just from hearing a recording, but the ones Blomstedt makes are pretty obvious if one listens with a score (or is familiar with the piece). 134.173.80.167 (talk) 18:42, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * One could easily apply this to all the symphonies, but I think it will be close to impossible to determine alterations based purely on listening to a recording with (one hopes!) an accurate score in hand. I'd think it would be sufficient to note somewhere that Nielsen's orchestrations have generally not been followed as faithfully as one might like (which is equally true for Tchaikovsky, Schumann, and Beethoven, among many others), whether because of unreliable editions, conductorial good intentions, conductorial whim, or whatever. And what would be the value of this information, even if it were possible to present it? --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 21:18, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Markevitch recording
Igor Markevitch's recording of this symphony, made with the Royal Danish Orchestra in 1965, has only been issued on LP (as far as I know), and I think only a couple of times. I believe it was issued on the Danish label Fona, and then picked up by Turnabout in the US and DG's Heliodor label some years later. Has anyone heard anything about a CD issue of this? And can anyone confirm a rumor I heard once, that the Fona issue sounded much better than either the Turnabout or the Heliodor issues? --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 19:59, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Is this the Markevitch recording with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, which certainly did appear on Heliodor? Alexander Gibson made a good recording wiht the Scottish National Orchestra, which RCA in the UK issued at far too low a level. It's not an easy piece to recordDelahays (talk) 23:30, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Apologies - The Chicago Symphony recording was conducted by Martinon, not Markevitch. It's the Markevitch which was on Heliodor. There is a live performance by Barbirolli which made it to CD - the commercial studio recording has or had what sound like pitch problems. The live one doesn't.Delahays (talk) 09:45, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

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