Talk:Synoecism

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 September 2021 and 10 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): AFineDouglasFir. Peer reviewers: GooseJanus, AshOrchid2254.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 10:36, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Fascism sees Federalism as an obstacle
Yeah man, but the fascists oppose an obstacle to public health.

Unionists are becoming dangerous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phalanxpursos (talk • contribs) 08:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikinfo not a source
This is not going to do, Wikinfo is not a source, it's a blog. I mean, it is a source of personal opinion, private research and all those things not allowed by WP. If you enjoy blogs, go, go, go. But, compare the size of the two. People are not interested in a thousand and one opinions, they want information. The people who brought you this are interested in information also, but not the kind YOU think. As public information this does not cut it. It was never intended to, and that is the point. Reuse of Wikinfo articles is a terrible idea. This is not WI it is WP. If it was allowed on WP it would have been created on WP. Now it has been brought in to WP by the back door. It isn't competant. I think we can rewrite it. I suppose we can rewrite any random page out of the yellow pages of the phone book to be a good article on synoecism.

I'm going on the fundamental assumption that this in not acceptable in WP, as the whole point is that material on WI is not by definition acceptable to WP. If you read their constitution you will see the truth of it. In fact the article does not disappoint me. Let us start out with the most glaring contradiction. If synoecism is a fundamental path to democracy, what is it doing in an oligarchy? I appreciate your opinion, whoever wrote this. Noble try, you pass the grade school course in ancient history. For an encyclopedia - sorry, you get a D. More work. Your opinion is unfounded. You almost fail classics 101. Stick to WI or do some work. Education is by no means for free. You have to work hard at it.

As a pointer, well, we are all familiar with synoecism. Your town probably has a date of incorporation. That incorporation is a synoecism. Not being Greek we don't say synoecized, we say incorporated, but of course the circumstances of incorporation in ancient times were quite different. In scholarship it typically refers to first incorporation of communities into a city-state. The theory is, when settlement reached certain density, synoecism would naturally occur provided there was no agent preventing that event. There's a lot of good scholarship on it, but if your source is WI you are never going to find it.

I'm not going to take this on at the moment but I am going to start chipping away at it. Eventually it will start looking more like a WP article.Dave (talk) 08:31, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

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Out of Date
I notice this has been more or less left alone for a few years, like Polis. Back in 2011 I had quite a bit to say on the article that existed then. I promised to come back and help improve it but never kept my word. Too much candy in the candy store. This is a B-grade. Not bad. I decided to quit running off when needed so I picked up Polis, which had been abandoned and was a C grade. I am working hard on that in page 2 of my sandbox. Whether what I said before is relevant now, unquestionably not. The whole topic changed even as this article was being written the first time. It seems we aren't too clear in this and other articles because the scholars were not. Despite all the books there was no general study of all the hundreds, a few thousand even, of poleis. We had a bunch of inadequate models based on the inadequate studies if individual scholars. In 1994-2004 the Copenhagen Polis center did some major collaborative work on all the poleis they could find. This made a difference. I'm trying to put that into the new Polis. This article is out-of-sync. It will go on fine for a while and then catch a fly ball out in left field. The major models aren't there. No mention of Aristotle. No primary sources. Needs a work-over. Read polis when it gets there or in my sandbox. A lot of the major assertions here are unreferenced. I don't have the time to mark it all up. This time I am not making promises as to what I will or will not do. A return is not off the table.Botteville (talk) 21:13, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

PS. There are two relatively short related articles, this one and sympoliteia. The facts attributed to these and synoecism are sometimes mixed up so as to confuse the three. So, I'm going to start on the most obvious things of the first 2 as well as rewriting polis. The most obvious things are probably not going to attract any flak so I might be able to work on those directly, but if I get any flak or I get to the point where the content gets more subtle I will finish them in sandboxes.Botteville (talk) 20:28, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Municipal incorporation
"The closest analogy today is the incorporation of a city; in fact, "incorporation" is often used to translate synoikismos." Removed this. No ref. This is not the closest moreover doesn't apply. Legally this is municipal corporation, the creation of a local government within a state. A polis is the state, not the municipality. It has municipalities. If incorporation is used to translate sunoikismos it doesn't mean municipal incorporation but only the creation of a legal body of any sort, which is quite different. Confusion of corporations.Botteville (talk) 08:22, 27 June 2023 (UTC)