Talk:Syracuse, New York/Archive 2

New Articles for Lists
As it is generally favored in city articles to withhold lists from the main article, I suggest we create a new article for famous Syracusans and also Film and Television. Look at "Good Articles" such as Houston andMiami. You won't find lists there. Maybe we could mention some really famous Syracusans (ala 1 million+ Google hits) in paragraph format or something. Give me your opinion. -newkai |talk | contribs 00:56, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I have cut down the list to those individuals with over one million Google hits to their name + profession. Since this might not be the best method, feel free to add any very notable people I might have omitted. This is for the good of the article, as it was getting very huge (over 50KB) and messy. -newkai | talk | contribs 17:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

"Syracusian"
Shouldn't it be "Syracusan" (without an i)? I don't remember seeing "Syracusian" before. --Cam22:54, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi, any news on the Syracusian issue? I have a hankering to change it to Syracusan. --Cam 21:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I've lived here all my life and I've always thought it was "Syracusan" without the "i". --Darry2385 12:42, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * You're absolutely right... I just did a Post-Standard search and found only six "Syracusian"s since 1987, but over 6000 "Syracusan"s. Thanks for pointing that out. -newkai | talk| contribs 13:55, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Syracusians are the ones from Sicily apparently... eg.: "Philolaus is supposed to have maintained that the earth moved in a circle, though some say it was Hicetas the Syracusian" -newkai |talk | contribs 14:14, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Photographs
We NEED a new cover photo for this page. Clinton Square is nice and all, but how about something high quality, or at least not tilted. I'm heading home for the weekend, any requests for pictures? Anyone still living in SYR want to step up too? --Niro5 16:38, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I have actually been wanting to do this for a while, though I do not have a Digital Camera. Suggestion-wise, either a redo of the Clinton Square pic or a one of the entire city would probably be good for the opening, the one from University Hill is nice but there's a tree in the way and you really can't see anything. One taken from either Thorndon or Burnet Park would probably work better.  The upper zoo parking lot at Burnet has a nice view. The neighborhood pics could also use redoing, and if someone is in Tipperary Hill, the one of the upside down streetlight really doesnt look all that great.  A picture of the light from uphill that gets the monument in the frame would be nice.  Same with the other neighborhoods; we've got a shot of a bunch of cars on James street and someone's house from what I can tell.  A shot of the Palace Theater would be nice for Eastwood.  Also maybe the airport or the bus terminal for the transportation bit and a decent picture of the whole mall, that one you could probably get with a decent zoom from one of the pedestrian bridges over the highway over towards the warehouse district and Franklin Square.  -- Gizzakk 17:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I tried Thornden... It was way too zoomed-out. I think I have one of the Palace Theatre, but I was waiting for the text area to be expanded, so that the Eastwood article isn't too image heavy. -newkai| talk | contribs 18:24, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I've tried, but they're not good. Anyone own a plane or helicopter!? -newkai |talk | contribs 18:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I had to enlarge the icons next to the political figures because I just couldn't even figure out what the donkey was. Hopefully 15 pixals isn't too much. Additionally I added a sister city section. I modeled its appearance and location after other cities pages, also I looked up on Sister Cities International websiteSister Cities International (SCI), and they didn't list anything, though this proclamation from the mayor sure says something.

I just got a digital camera, so I will be trying to get some decent shots. It is nowhere near top-of-the-line though, so I really dont know how they will turn out. Any preferences for the time of day for the skyline shot anyone? -- Gizzakk 17:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Got the shot, just uploaded it and exchanged it for the Clinton Square one; this is about as good as it is going to get from me without a better camera and/or some compositing software. What are people's thoughts? --Gizzakk 20:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * That shot is amazing! Who cares about technical details... This photo just has to be small and main in the corner! -newkai | talk | contribs 00:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you, any other requests for things while I am at it already? I am planning on going around over the next few weeks (time and weather permitting) and getting shots of major things and things mentioned in the article,(the mall, the squares downtown, better neighboorhood shots, whatever.) I just don't want to go overboard, so let me know what is appropriate. -- Gizzakk 02:05, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Neighborhood shots are hard sometimes, let me tell you! Basically we can especially use some of neighborhoods that don't have any photos yet. I'm going to to compile a Sedgwick article soon... It'd be cool to have a front shot of the "Sedgwick Farms" entrance. I'm kind of stuck 5000 miles away! But anything at all would be great! -newkai | talk |contribs 02:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

If you want some image editing software try GIMP its some of the best software around, its free and its available for more operating systems than most people know of. Also, be careful of what your camera is focusing on. It looks like the camera focused on the trees rather than the skyline. Its a good picture for the thumbnail, and a huge improvement over the old one. I agree we don't need a Featured Photo, but a picture is worth a thousand words, and the reletive quality of your site can be important, as we have seen--Niro5 20:21, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Niro's got a good point about the focus. There should be an infinity mode... It's usually a "scene" menu (night, candle, infinity, etc.) According to the meta data of your photo, it looks like your camera thought it was taking a photo of something only a few meters away. But it's fine, anyway. -newkai |talk | contribs 22:00, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I had the camera on "landscape" setting, but as I said it really isnt all that great of a camera. I suppose I could go and try to retake it and see if it comes out any better if you think it is worth it. --Gizzakk 02:59, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

P.S.- Thanks for the heads up on the software, Niro5!

Voting on naming
See talk:Syracuse for whether Syracuse should be a DAB page, the NY place, or the Sicilian place.

Upstate New York Colaberaton
Seeing as how we have been clobbered recently on the Syracuse Disambiguation issue due to the other sides organization, I think that it would be a good idea if we did some collaberation with other Upstate New York editers. Any other thoughts?--Niro5 22:39, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we could use a Wikiproject:Upstate New York or better yet Wikiproject:The four major Upstate cities. -newkai | talk | contribs 23:16, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

famous syracusans
removed ludicrously unimportant and obvious "teenie" idols from list of "famous syracusans"
 * I disagree.  Newkai set up a good standard for inclusion here, more than 1 million google hits, if they meet that standerd, they should stay in.  It looks like they each do.  I think we need to have an arbitray standard.  Who are we to say who is and is not important?--Niro5 21:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I am wondering if those names get a lot of hits because they are just common names/phrases. Is there a way to make sure you aren't including unrelated sites in the hits? --Cam 21:59, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Also you have to search within double quotes in Google to get actual phrases ("will allen" instead of will allen). Otherwise you get hits for sentences like: Steve Allen will be remembered forever. For "earth crisis" (in quotes) I get 599,000 hits, for "will allen" I get 268,000. --Cam 22:04, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * There was only one "teenie idol", Dave Mirra, and he has over 950,000, so pretty close. -newkai | talk | contribs 17:40, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Is "fame" the best category--or might "important" be better? Pop idols may have fleeting fame. Those thousands who hit their websites may never had heard of really more important Syracusans, such as Mary Raymond Shipman Andrews, more widely known elesewhere than in her home town. In terms of historical significance, Jermain Wesley Loguen was far more significant than many of the ephemeral "famous" peronalities named here. Will a "famous list" be outdated in ten years? "Fame" is a rather superficial category.Phmalo 16:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I started this section a few years ago, and I see the list has gotten absolutely ludicrous again. I'll be culling it again over the next few days so that the inclusion of "teenies" and the sort do not detract from those whose genuine accomplishments warrant their being on a list of the sort. —Preceding unsigned comment added by64.61.146.194 (talk) 01:49, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

IPA
Anyone good with IPA? As you probably know, Syracuse is pronounced differently in Syracuse then elsewhere, with the Syr rhyming with hair instead of deer. I was trying to figure both out in IPA, getting Sɛɹɑkjus for the local pronunciation. And Sɪɹakjus for the regular one. Could everyone take a look at the IPA chart for English and see if you get that too. Thanks. -newkai | talk | contribs 17:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The middle vowel should be schwa for both, and you need a stress mark at the beginning of both. Otherwise OK. (I use the first pronunciation.) --Cam 04:09, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * also the u needs to be u:, and the first s should be lowercase.--Cam 04:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * So sɛɹəkju:s and sɪɹəkju:s? Is that what you meant? -newkai |talk | contribs 01:08, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, or more precisely it should read something like (IPA: or ).

Huh? I'm a native, born in the city, and for 70 years I've been rhyming the name with "deer"--or at least coming out with something between "seer" and "sir," which may be the most common variant. I don't hear "Sair-a-cuse" anywhere--or haven't I been listenting?Phmalo 16:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

There is no standard pronunciation, I've lived here all my life and heard it both ways - "seer" and "sair." The only pronunciation it seems to me you never hear, is "-cuze" with a "z" sound when part of the full name "Syracuse." ("'Cuse" nickname of course does have the "z" sound)  24.58.34.92 23:10, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Born and raised, I pronounce the final coda with a /z/, not an /s/. I know its not universally pronounced that way, but I also know that its significantly common, in local television news programs and the like. I believe that's where the /kju:z/ nickname is derived from.... ("cuse" with a voiceless /s/ isn't exactly difficult to pronounce). I had actually thought that the /z/ was the primary pronunciation, which is why I ventured onto the talk page to see what the deal was. Shouldn't we represent the /z/ variation somehow on the front page? SPL Wolf (talk) 14:35, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

How about a WikiProject?
Let's face it... A lot of Syracuse-related articles are still a mess. I still find articles on a daily basis that should at least be in Category:Greater Syracuse, New York but aren't. WikiProjectsuggests that there be at least five willing editors before a project is founded. I'm sure we at least have the complexity of article mess that would warrant such a WikiProject, but do we have the editors? Please respond if you are willing to take part in such a project. With over 1075 articles linking to the main article alone, it'd be worth the effort. Especially since we have to coordinate on a much wider scale than just the main page (and hence its talk page) alone. -newkai | talk |contribs 01:27, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) I'm in--Niro5 02:57, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 2) Same here -- Gizzakk 03:27, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 3) That makes three --newkai | talk |contribs 03:30, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 4) I'll try AdamBiswanger1 14:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's here... Check it out... WP:SYR -newkai | talk |contribs 21:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Indian claims to Syracuse
Is there no information on the land claims by Six Nations Indians on the entire city of Syracuse?jdobbin 16:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * http://www.onondaganation.org/news.hugeclaim.html Here is a link to an Onondaga press release on the matter. I havn't time to do much research now.  I think it might deserve a mention and heck, what doesn't deserve its own page. (for good or bad) it usually amounts to no more than a few news paper articles per year, as such I wouldn't include more than a sentance in the main article unless there is a major development.

--Niro5 18:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Dinosaur Bar-B-Que
I just started a new page Dinosaur Bar-b-que because its such a local landmark. I can't figure out where to put it in the article, any suggestions? Perhaps a landmarks section? Restaurants seems a little too travel book-like, maybe a foods section, that way we can add other syracuse area foods like Hoffmans, Columbus Bakery, State Fair Speedie Sauce (actually binghamton, but close enough), and of course Dinosaur.Niro5 18:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Gianelli Sausage, Saranac Beer (FX Matts), Middle ages Brewing Company, there is a whole list of Syracuse foods that can be put in now that I think of it.--Niro5 18:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Could be a Food/Cuisine section... Check other big-city articles how they've handled it. -newkai t-c 11:03, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Yup! Time for subarticles, I suggest history goes first... as a start,Stepp-Wulf 03:19, 28 November 2006 (UTC).

University Hill Photo
It would be great if we could get a photo of the Hill from Downtown as opposed to a photo of Downtown from the Hill. If that makes any sense! Basically, some kind of shot that has the hospitals and SU in it. Essentially a "University Hill Skyline". -newkai t-c 01:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * We do have Image:Suhilldome3.jpg, which is great, but I was thinking along the lines of Downtown, so it looks more hillish. -newkai t-c 01:40, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Suburbs
Up in the first section of this talk page someone said "As it is generally favored in city articles to withhold lists from the main article" ... If this is the case, shouldn't the big list of Syracuse suburbs be omitted? At the very least it should be edited -- listing every town and village in Onondaga County, while omitting all nearby towns and villages in surrounding counties, is rather silly. There's no reason not to list e.g. only the most populous and nearby suburbs. -- Rsholmes 14:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree - we already have a listing of all the cities, towns and villages on the Onondaga County page, and the article refers to the suburbs as pretty much being the whole of the county, with a link to the county page. Why duplicate it here?  Maybe better would be to say that Syracuse metropolitan area is all the Onondaga County localities, PLUS... and so on.  However, we would need to find a good source for what is defined as a Syracuse suburb, otherwise we are just getting ourselves into a battle of opinions. --Alucard (Dr.) 15:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Many residents of nearby cities, such as Fulton, Oswego, and Auburn, actually commute on a daily basis to employment in Syracuse or its outlying commercial areas. Are these autnomous cities "suburbs" of Syracuse? Yes, and no, depending on how one defines a suburb or a metropolitan area. Probably the metropolitan area of Syracuse encompasses Oswego and Auburn, in adjoining Oswego and Cayuga Counties, just as it encompasses the important suburb of Cazenovia, in adjoining Madison County. Articles defined by arbitrary political juristictions (Syracuse, Onondaga County) are hampered by that constraint. Ideally, we would be talking about "Greater Syracuse" or the "Syracuse Metropolitan Area."Phmalo 16:52, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, the Consolidated MSA of Syracuse, which includes the Auburn micropolitain area includes Onondada, Oswego, Madison, and Cayuga counties. I'm not for the list, as we already now have a template at the bottom with all the towns, villages, and hamlets in the county. -newkai t-c 16:24, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Dates, Please
Some of the information is written as if readers would have read it back when written. Remember that this material may be up for years to come. For instance, when did McDonald propose his aerial rail system? Is that project still alive? The article makes it sould as if it's current. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phmalo(talk • contribs) 15:23, 16 January 2007
 * I took care of the gondola request. It is, like most projects in Syracuse, still alive but with no activity!-newkai t-c 16:42, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Destiny USA Section
In the brief Destiny USA section, this article states that one of the goals, or anticipated outcomes, of the project is to "turn Syracuse into a huge metropolis and tourist destination." I don't think I've ever heard "huge metropolis" or any similar claim. Has this ever been a claim by Pyramid? If no one objects, I will remove "huge metropolis" leaving it at ". . . turn Syracuse into a tourist destination" which has been the claim. Mdeaton 15:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I don't know how that got in there. -newkai t-c 15:19, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you - - much better. Mdeaton 22:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I think this should be removed unless and until something actually happens. I know a lot of peopl ein Syracuse want this to happen, but "wishin' won't make it so." Bbbbbaby —Precedingcomment was added at 15:41, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Moyer
Between 1909 and 1915 Harvey Allen Moyer produced 410 cars in Syracuse. 10 still exist. I can't find here anything about the factory. —Preceding unsignedcomment added by 77.128.171.149 (talk •contribs) 01:13, 1 July 2007


 * If you can find some reliable sources that can establish the verifiability of the information, please be bold and add the information. -- Alucard (Dr.) |Talk 12:26, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I saw it in Essen when I visited the Techno-Classica. My source is E. Theisen in Hamburg --77.128.168.0 03:27, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This article has some information about Moyer. I'm sure much more could be found at the OCPL. --Cam 04:22, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Article header photograph
I've been gone for a while, but I just decided it was about time for me to start editing again; and I noticed that the picture of Syracuse I had taken for the article was replaced with a different one. The truth is, I like the old one better, but didnt want to switch it back myself because I figured someone would yell "BIAS!" or some such. Thoughts anyone? Gizzakk 02:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Seems like the picture was changed a while ago...what pic was used? The one of Clinton Square looking towards the State Tower building? —Preceding unsigned comment added byDarry2385 (talk • contribs) 11:34, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, it was this one, which now appears near the top of the WP:SYR page; its basically the same shot (not really surprising, its the best view of the city available from the ground), but more recent and quite a bit brighter (it was taken around 2pm EST in July of '06, if I remember correctly.) Gizzakk 20:06, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree w/ you. The old one looks brighter and clearer. Darry2385 01:05, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll wait a few more days, but if no one objects I'll just switch it back. Gizzakk 22:43, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Nickname
Who changed the nickname back to "Salt City"? I am from Syracuse, and had previously corrected it to "The Salt City". "The" is never left off, and the expression is heard often enough for any child to know that. No one calls New York "Big Apple" or Detroit "Motor City", its always "The Big Apple" and "The Motor City". —Preceding unsigned comment added by208.120.163.85 (talk) 18:04, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The official "Syracuse City Directory" in 1931 specifically called it "the Salt City" which is the way I've always heard it. User:Nconwaymicelli 22:43, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Portal
Anyone have any objections if I add a main portal page to the site? Syracuse needs a main page to highlight all the different topics that are currently more or less buried or hidden.User:Nconwaymicelli 18:29, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Ethnic diversity
Hi I am from the Netherlands, Europe. It's a good story about Syracuse, I think, but I am suprised there aren't any Dutch involved. New York was New Amsterdam in it's early years and the Dutch being traders and explorers in that region would make that very plausible. In the part about ethnic diversity you name a lot of immigrants among them also Native Americans. Is that a mistake or where they realy immigrants in your area? —Preceding unsigned comment added by83.160.139.195 (talk) 12:23, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The Dutch had largely been pushed out of New York by the English long before anything beyond the Hudson Valley was settled. There are some Dutch names (e.g., Rensselaer, Schuylkill) the area between NYC and Albany, but there was never much Dutch influence west of the Hudson.  Powers T 23:25, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * You are correct, Native Americans are not immigrants.. Thank you! Nconwaymicelli22:53, 12 October 2011 (UTC)