Talk:Syracuse University/Archive 2

Founding
The last sentence in the first paragraph in this section -- recounting in colorful, speculative detail why Ezra Cornell did not locate his school in Syracuse -- seems irrelevant to this article on Syracuse University. Earlier edit as such reverted by Anon. Other thoughts on this? DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 02:47, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 128.230.73.104, 16 June 2010
The information listed for Syracuse University's religious affiliation is incorrect. As a duly appointed representative of Syracuse University who is intimately familiar with its history and current status, I can tell you definitively that while it was founded as a Methodist institution, it has been nonsectarian since 1920. The correct wording for Religious Affiliation is "nonsectarian." An appropriate footnote for that would reference is W. Freeman Galpin, Syracuse University, Volume Two: The Growing Years, Syracuse, NY: Syracuse University Press 1960. Chapter 24, "The Sectarian Issue and Charter Revision," definitively describes the process by which the University charter was revised to declare definitively that "corporation [Board of Trustees] shall be non-sectarian" (page 419). The University by-laws were amended that same year, 1920, to reflect this change in the charter. It is essential that this affiliation be corrected in Wikipedia and the existing footnote 2 be deleted. Please contact me directly if there is any question or concern about this (Peter Englot, Associate Vice President for Public Affairs, Syracuse University, ).

128.230.73.104 (talk) 15:15, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Could you provide some kind of source for this correction? While I appreciate that it must be obvious to you, original research ins't allowed here and all information has to be verifiable. You might be better waiting it out until the protection is lifted. HJ Mitchell  &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   15:54, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I think they did provide a source. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:56, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

In addition, here are 10 sources that state Syracuse University has no religious affiliation. Two of these sources include US News & World Report and the Princeton Review, which are highly reputable national publications and organizations. Please see the below links:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/syracuse-ny/syracuse-university-2882 (it says Religious Affiliation: N/A, not applicable)

http://www.princetonreview.com/SyracuseUniversity.aspx (under "Religious Affiliation" in the "At a Glance Section" it says NONE)

http://graduate-school.phds.org/rankings/economics/university/profile/syracuse/721 (it says Religious Affiliation: Not Applicable)

http://www.cappex.com/colleges/Syracuse-University-196413 (it says Religious Affiliation: None)

http://www.campuscorner.com/new-york-colleges/syracuse-university.htm (it says Religious Affiliation: None)

http://www.venturescholar.org/portals/index.php?mid=191 (it says Religious Affiliation: No Preference or Affiliation)

http://collegeclicktv.com/videos?fr_chl=d4bb4c4032c00a2904b9909caa98002972314bd4 (it says Religious Affiliation: None)

http://collegeprowler.com/syracuse-university/statistics/ (it says Religious Affiliation: None)

http://www.enotes.com/syracuse-university-guide/ (it says Religious Affiliation: None)

http://www.meritaid.com/meritScholarships/Syracuse-University-196413

Furthermore, Syracuse University's own official website describes the University as nonsectarian: Please see here: http://coursecatalog.syr.edu/introduction.aspx. Merriam-Websters dictionary, one of the definitive dictionaries of the English language, defines "nonsectarian" as "not affiliated with or restricted to a particular religious group." See: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nonsectarian. Therefore, Syracuse University is not affiliated with any religious group.

Lastly, do a Google Search for religious affiliation for different Methodist-affiliated universities like Duke University or American University. If you type in "duke university religious affiliation" or "american university religious affiliation" in Google, Google tells you at the very top that these universities are affiliated with the Methodist Church. Please see:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=duke+university+religious+affiliation and

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=american+university+religious+affiliation&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

However, if you do the same search for "Syracuse University religious affiliation" in Google, it says "Syracuse University religious affiliation — None." Please see:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=syracuse+university+religious+affiliation&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.236.160.233 (talk) 17:55, 16 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Can someone please reconcile the apparent differences between the institution's official stance and the other sources that have been cited that appear to contradict this stance? Are these sources out-of-date, confused, outright wrong, or being misinterpreted?
 * The majority of the evidence presented thus far seems to support the institution's official stance. However, although I am sympathetic to the institution I am not willing to immediately cede the issue merely because a university official has presented the institution's official stance. This is not a university publication and we are not beholden to their interpretations, standards, or demands. ElKevbo (talk) 17:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Please see this University publication: http://coursecatalog.syr.edu/introduction.aspx
 * This is the Syracuse University official website. The website states that the University is "nonsectarian." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.236.160.233 (talk) 18:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You haven't answered the question. Why are there reliable sources that contradict this?  From where are they getting their information? ElKevbo (talk) 18:07, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I am not sure why the United Methodist Church would claim this. Perhaps for religious propaganda so as to show they are affiliated with several prominent private universities. Perhaps it was a mistake. The mistake is a reasonable one since Syracuse University was indeed founded by Methodists and USED TO BE affiliated with the Methodist Church. However, today it is no longer affiliated with the church. The sources that the sources in question got their information from might be out of date. Also, the issue is confusing; Syracuse University is not affiliated with the Methodist Church at the present time but it has "historic ties" with the church. This could have led to the contradictory information.
 * Ok. In any case, I think that you've made your argument and the vast majority of sources support the claim that the institution is non-sectarian.  Whoever makes the edit once the protection expires will have my support in doing so. ElKevbo (talk) 19:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you ElKevbo. Is there a way to contact an administrator to unlock the article so we can make the changes sooner rather than later? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.236.160.233 (talk) 19:44, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * There is but the protection will expire by itself shortly so it's easier to just wait a little while longer. ElKevbo (talk) 23:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Affiliation Confirmed between SU & UMC
Deny Request: I received an email from the Syracuse University Archives stating "Thank you for your inquiry about Syracuse University’s connection to the United Methodist Church. The University is nonsectarian; however, we remain historically connected to the United Methodist Church. Please find attached a summary of our relationship." The document stated this:

I also received an email from the United Methodist Church which stated: In light of this evidence, I suggest we edit the sentence in question to state: "'''Since 1920, the university has identified itself as nonsectarian, although it still maintains an affiliation with the United Methodist Church." ''' Both Syracuse University and the United Methodist Church openly state that the university is affiliated with the Church and Wikipedia should honor this relationship. With regards, AnupamTalk 21:40, 16 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Sounds fine to me. The infobox should simply state "nonsectarian," though. ElKevbo (talk) 23:57, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Since the relationship is more complicated than that, do you think that only using the term "nonsectarian" in the infobox suffices? I suggest inserting "nonsectarian but related to the United Methodist Church." What do you think? I look forward to hearing from you soon. With regards, AnupamTalk 03:52, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I don't think the relationship is that complicated. The infobox should be succinct and accurate ("nonsectarian") but the historical relationship can be explained and expanded on in the body of the article, perhaps in the "History" section. ElKevbo (talk) 10:31, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Could you provide a source to your claims? As noted by the administrator above, "original research isn't allowed here and all information has to be verifiable." Without cited sources, there's no way to verify the authenticity of your claims. You need to provide an internet link to this information from a credible source. Also, since the general consensus has not confirmed any affiliation, I do not think it appropriate to title this sub-thread as such. 71.249.7.168 (talk) 12:38, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry but he or she most certainly does not have to "provide an internet link to this information from a credible source." He has a document above transcribed from the university archives and several links to other sources.  I think those sources - along with the ones already present in the article - are more than sufficient to substantiate the innocuous and uncontroversial idea that there are historic ties between this institution and the Methodist Church.
 * Frankly, I'm mystified as to why this is such a contentious issue. ElKevbo (talk) 15:25, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I do not deny that the university has historical ties to the church. It does. However, what Anupam wants to do is say that Syracuse University has a religious affiliation is with the United Methodist Church. This suggests too much and is a contentious issue for me as an alumnus because it gives the mistaken impression to prospective students that Syracuse is a religious university. Prospective students, upon reading Anupam's edits, might not want to apply to SU because they might be turned off by the thought of attending a religious school. I agree with ElKevbo's suggestion that we should state "nonsectarian" in the info box and leave it at that. Or we should just remove any mention of religious affiliation from the info box altogether. The info boxes of other nonsectarian university articles don't even make a mention of religious affiliation. I think the body of the article should explain the historical ties with the church in the HISTORY section, not in the introductory section.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.236.160.233 (talk) 16:06, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your comments everyone. I have an issue with the use of the word "historical." The text from Syracuse University Archives document states: "The current bylaws authorize the Board to elect three Organization Trustees: one Trustee each to represent the North Central New York, Western New York, and Wyoming conferences of the United Methodist Church...Today Syracuse University is considered a Methodist-related institution. Syracuse University's affiliation is expressed in the tradition, though not regulation, of having a United Methodist minister serve as dean of Hendricks Chapel and in the University's participation in the annual University Teacher/Scholar Award sponsored by the Methodist Church. In addition, the University administers a number of Methodist-funded scholarships and houses the Bishop Ledden Endowed Professorship in the Department of Religion." In addition, the United Methodist Church states that "Syracuse University is a United Methodist-related school." These comments do not suggest that the relationship is only a historical one but an active one. It is my recommendation that we do not place adjectives in front of the word "affiliation." Moreover, in order to try to build a compromise, I will support the recommendation to remove any mention of religious affiliation in the infobox. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 18:19, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I also inquired about this with the University and that writing that you received from the Syracuse University Archives may not be relevant anymore. The University is currently in the process of drafting a new statement on this issue. I received the following message from SU:
 * The piece by Dean Wolfe is the statement that you received. I received that as well. Keep in mind that it may be adjusted and revised in the coming days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.236.160.233 (talk) 19:09, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Until then, I see no need to take any action since Wikipedia does reflect the current status of the affiliation as acknowledged by Syracuse University and the United Methodist Church. Thanks, AnupamTalk 19:32, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Until then, I see no need to take any action since Wikipedia does reflect the current status of the affiliation as acknowledged by Syracuse University and the United Methodist Church. Thanks, AnupamTalk 19:32, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

In the meantime, let's adopt the compromise you suggested. Remove the religious affiliation from the info box and call Syracuse a "Methodist-related school" in the body of the article. When it's time for the University to take action, they can edit the rest themselves.
 * For the sake of building a middle way consensus, I will endorse your last edit but do not agree to take any more further action. Syracuse University itself uses the term "affiliation" in describing its relationship with the United Methodist Church and in light of this fact, the sentence as it is now is fine. Until the new statement comes out, the article can remain as it is now. Thanks, AnupamTalk 21:03, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Although I must reiterate that "affiliated with [a religious organization]" and being nonsectarian at the same time is oxymoronic. Nonsectarian is defined as "not affiliated with or restricted to a particular religious group" (see http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nonsectarian). The author of that statement from the Syracuse University Archives must have chosen the wrong wording in this regard.

Anupam, you agreed that you would not put "religious affiliation" in the info box. Please honor this.

Reference list
I suggest the implementation of  on this article, because of the length of the reference list. Opinions, rejections? --bender235 (talk) 22:10, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

The 2012 edition of US News and World Report now has Syracuse ranked at 62nd. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.123.253.1 (talk) 16:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Religious Affiliation (part 2)
Syracuse University is NOT related to the United Methodist church anymore. The sources that Anupam cited are out of date. Various sources state that Syracuse University is nonsectarian and has NO religious affiliation. In fact, if you do a Google search for "Syracuse University Religious Affiliation," at the very top, Google states that SU's religious affiliation is "Not Applicable."

The following sites also state that SU has no religious affiliation anymore. These are all CURRENT sources.

U.S. News and World Report profile on SU (2012): http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/syracuse-university-2882 It says "Religious Affiliation: N/A"

Princeton Review profile on SU (2011): http://www.princetonreview.com/SyracuseUniversity.aspx It says "Religious Affiliation: No Affiliation"

Campus Corner profile on SU (2011): http://www.campuscorner.com/new-york-colleges/syracuse-university.htm It says "Religious Affiliation: None"

Anupam, if you are going to edit, please provide CURRENT sources from 2011. Furthermore, I've noticed you are engaged in a similar argument in the Boston University Wikipedia article's discussion page (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Boston_University). There, various people are also questioning the accuracy of your Methodist-related sources. Please provide more reliable and current sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.241.179 (talk) 22:39, 13 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Please read the A Brief Report of Church Relatedness: Syracuse University in this section, where the University confirms the affiliation. I would also encourage you to look at the previous compromise between the two parties there. Moreover, you cannot unilaterally remove information from the article unless you have gained consensus to do so (please refer to WP:BRD). Thanks, AnupamTalk 22:55, 13 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Anupam, I've noticed that the Boston University and Duke University articles state that these schools have a "historical affiliation." As a matter of compromise, please allow the word "historical" to be placed in the article's wording. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.241.179 (talk) 23:01, 13 December 2011 (UTC)


 * For times sake, I will allow you to revert your edit and add the word "historical" in the sentence. I hope this helps. Thanks, AnupamTalk 23:04, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I noticed that you attempted to state that Syracuse University is independent, but were correctly reverted by User:ElKevbo. I must assure you that you are incorrect as the Bylaws of Syracuse University state:

In light of this information, your suggestion to label the affiliation as a "historical" one is inaccurate as the Bylaws clearly demonstrate that the affiliation is not merely historical. The article titled Syracuse University Bylaws, with the subheading Trustees/University Governance clearly indicates that The United Methodist Church is involved in the governance of Syracuse University with the statement delineated above. I hope this helps. Thanks, AnupamTalk 02:44, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

No. This is incorrect. Merely because "three trustees" shall be elected DOES NOT suggest that the university is governed by the United Methodist Church. In fact, it suggests the opposite. If the university was governed by the Methodist Church, why aren't all trustees elected by the Methodist Church? Why only 3? There are 70 total trustees. The fact that only 3 are elected shows that the appointments are nominal and symbolic. This supports the argument that any affiliation is historical. Moreover, you cannot unilaterally remove information from the article unless you have gained consensus to do so (please refer to WP:BRD). Please do not delete any sources. Thanks and hope this helps. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.241.179 (talk) 04:36, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There does appear to be a current affiliation with the Church. See . The article should appropriately reflect all reliable sources.– Lionel (talk) 10:13, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Your source states that it is "Methodist-related." Other sources state that Syracuse University's Religious Affiliation is "No Affiliation" or "N/A." The word "related" is different than "affiliation." "Related" suggests a relationship. Affiliation is much more than that. The language of the article should not reflect an affiliation. If you want the wording in the article to be affiliation, please provide sources that state "religious affiliation: Methodist." I have provided sources that state clearly and unambiguously that the religious affiliation is NOT Methodist. Furthermore, Anupam's sources about the 3 trustee's being appointed by the various conferences does not prove any affiliation. If you see the same source that he provided, Section 3 states that the University Senate shall consist of the President of the State University of New York. Does that mean that Syracuse University is a "affiliated with the State of New York" because a member of the governing body is the president of the state university? Anupam's logic in this regard doesn't hold up. The word "related" is too ambiguous, especially considering the fact that I've provided 4 sources that clearly and unambiguously state otherwise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.241.179 (talk) 16:01, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

I received the following message from Anupam: "Your recent editing history at Syracuse University shows that you are in danger of breaking the three-revert rule, or that you may have already broken it. An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Breaking the three-revert rule often leads to a block. If you wish to avoid being blocked, instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to discuss the changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. You may still be blocked for edit warring even if you do not exceed the technical limit of the three-revert rule if your behavior indicates that you intend to continue to revert repeatedly. AnupamTalk 00:33, 21 December 2011 (UTC)" Anupam threatens to block me for editing the work three times in a 24 hour period. However, he himself edits the work multiple times per day and deletes my edits and sources without reaching a consensus. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.241.179 (talk) 01:42, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Anupam, I have noticed you signed out and are now editing under your IP address. I propose a compromise. I will remove the text stating "independent in its governance from any religious organization" and I will also remove "historical" if you change the word "affiliation" to "relationship." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.241.179 (talk) 16:28, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

User:74.73.241.179, the link User:Lionelt provided lists Syracuse University as being affiliated with The United Methodist Church. Moreover, the website from Syracuse University states:

A Brief Report of Church Relatedness: Syracuse University – INCORPORATION AND THE METHODIST CHURCH: also states:

The United Methodist Church itself acknowledges this affiliation, as indicated in their website:

The affiliation is also acknowledged by The General Board of Higher Education & Ministry, to which the Office of the Provost at Boston University referred to above:

In addition, the International Association of Methodist-related Schools, Colleges, and Universities also lists Syracuse University as a "United Methodist" school:

Several other secondary sources also acknowledge the affiliation of Syracuse University to The United Methodist Church. For example, the Youth Impact Program states:

Also, Hendricks Chapel: seventy-five years of service to Syracuse University speaks of the relationship as well:

In addition, the reference Separated brethren: a review of Protestant, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox & other religions in the United States offers the following text:

Of course, there are also references that state that Syracuse University is nonsectarian; this however, does not nullify the affiliation of Syracuse University to The United Methodist Church. This is why the sentence in the article states: "Since 1920, the university has identified itself as nonsectarian, although it maintains an affiliation with The United Methodist Church." Stating that the university is "independent in its governance from any religious organization" when the trustees are from The United Methodist Church is nonsensical and inaccurate. Syracuse University affirms the affiliation with The United Methodist Church and The United Methodist Church has confirmed this affiliation. I will accept your compromise edit as it seems fine with me; however, I've trimmed the unformmatted references you've placed after "nonsectarian" as that statement is not a contentious one. Also, I am not editing from an IP Address - you were also being reverted by another anonymous user (in addition to myself, User:Lionelt, and User:ElKevbo). I hope this helps. Thanks, AnupamTalk 19:39, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

I am afraid I have to disagree with your point on an affiliation. None of the additional sources that you cited explicitly state affiliation except for the Youth Impact Program. However, the Youth Impact Program's text came directly from a prior edit of the Syracuse University Wikipedia article that YOU edited. The website merely copied and pasted from Wikipedia. This is not a reliable source when the "source" you cite to came from a Wikipedia article you yourself edited. Furthermore, your own sources state "Syracuse University's affiliation is expressed in the tradition, though not regulation." This suggests that any ties with the church are symbolic and historical in nature rather than substantive. It also proves that the Church has no governing power over the University. Moreover, as stated above, the fact that 3 out of 70 of the university trustees are appointed by Methodist conferences does not prove the university is affiliated with the United Methodist Church. The same source in Section 3 states that the University Senate shall include the President of the State University of New York. Does that mean Syracuse University is state affiliated? Obviously not as SU is a private institution. Lastly, as discussed previously, your sources such as the Google books article that you cite above are out of date.

I also disagree that the 4 sources I cited to are unnecessary. They are necessary simply because this IS a contentious issue. According to Webster's dictionary, Nonsectarian is defined as "not having a sectarian character : not affiliated with or restricted to a particular religious group." The fact that are having this debate proves this is a contentious issue. Furthermore, even if this were a non-contentious issue, there is no Wikipedia guideline that states only contentious statements can have cites. Lastly, the cite that you kept links to the Youth Impact Program website that was copied and pasted from Wikipedia. Again, you cannot cite to a source that was copied and pasted from a Wikipedia article that YOU edited in the past. I am removing this source and reinstating the 4 sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.241.179 (talk) 20:44, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

I have noticed you put up another cite to the SU bylaws. As stated above, the bylaws do not prove relationship or affiliation. However, I will pay you the courtesy of not removing that cite if you pay me the same respect and leave my cites for "nonsectarian" alone. Comment - It is generally bad form to edit your own comments after they have been responded to, as 74.73.241.179 has done here. FWIW, the edits seem to remove the promise to "end the debate" if the other would "simply provide sources that state verbatim 'religious affiliation: Methodist.'" - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 03:53, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Your disagreement is duly noted. However there appears to be a consensus which opposes your position. Please read WP:CONSENSUS. – Lionel (talk) 11:02, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Just because you and your allies who share your viewpoint reached a "consensus" doesn't make the statements fact.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.241.179 (talk) 03:38, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It was not my intention to alter the substance of my arguments after they were stated. I was merely editing for the purpose of search engine results. No subterfuge was intended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.241.179 (talk) 03:41, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

User:Manning954, Syracuse University itself has confirmed its relationship with The United Methodist Church. Have you read A Brief Report of Church Relatedness: Syracuse University which is published by the university itself? Please acknowledge that previous consensus held that the affiliation should be maintained in the article. You are nevertheless welcome to discuss this further here instead of edit warring, which often may result in a block (please see WP:BRD and WP:3RR). Thanks, AnupamTalk 23:21, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Anupam: this is directly quotes from the source you provided:"In 1920 the charter was amended by the legislature to state that the University shall be nonsectarian The 1920 amendments no longer required the majority of the Board to be nominated or elected by the annual conferences of the Methodist Church. Instead the amended charter authorized the Trustees to designate in the University's bylaws the number of members to be elected by the conferences of the church and to prescribe the manner in which they were elected. Since that time, the University's bylaws have continued to provide for representation of Methodist conferences on the University's Board of Trustees." To state that Syracuse University is affiliated with the Methodist Church because it still reserves 3 spots for UCM members out of 70 on the board of trustees is a far overstatement and just devious on your part. I would love for you to go to the official Syracuse website and find one mention of The United Methodist Church or any information stating any religious bearing on the University. All of your sources are directly from religious websites that are completely independent of the University. Manning954 (talk) 01:25, 25 March 2012 (UTC)manning954
 * You are assuming that beacause the university is nonsectarian, it cannot mantain a relationship with The United Methodist Church, which is incorrect (e.g. Emory University). A Brief Report of Church Relatedness: Syracuse University, which is published by the university itself states that: "Today Syracuse University is considered a Methodist-related institution. Syracuse University's affiliation is expressed in the tradition, though not regulation, of having a United Methodist minister serve as dean of Hendricks Chapel and in the University's participation in the annual University Teacher/Scholar Award sponsored by the Methodist Church. In addition, the University administers a number of Methodist-funded scholarships and houses the Bishop Ledden Endowed Professorship in the Department of Religion." The document goes on to state: "In September 2009, a United Methodist University Senate site team visit took place on the Syracuse University campus. In January, 2010 the University Senate voted to reaffirm its historic connection to Syracuse University." This, as well as the fact that the university is nonsectarian, is reflected in the article per WP:NPOV. Thanks, AnupamTalk 01:35, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I understand there is a historical affiliation with the UCM, but the University is clear in it's message in that it's nonsectarian. The fact that there are religious elements in a University does not indicate it's affiliation with that group. Many secular/indenpendent/nonsectarian universities offer classes and degrees in theology and religious-related studies, but that still does not indicate it is affiliated with any particular group. It's false and devious on your part to draw those dots and to state that Syracuse University is affiliated with the Methodist Church. Where did you find that source? It doesn't link to any website. It links to what appears to be a PDF file viewer or something of that sort. Manning954 (talk) 01:57, 25 March 2012 (UTC)manning954
 * A Brief Report of Church Relatedness: Syracuse University is an official document published by Syracuse University. I do not deny that the university is nonsectarian, as other other United Methodist-related universities such as Boston University or Emory University. Also, notice the wording of the Wikipedia article; it states: "Since 1920, the university has identified itself as nonsectarian, although it maintains a relationship with The United Methodist Church." The Wikipedia article does not even use the term "affiliation" even though the official document does use the word "affiliation"; rather, the Wikipedia article uses the loose word "relationship." These are not my words, but the official words of the university. If you do not like them, that is not my problem. I encourage you to accept the article as it stands because it states that the university is nonsectarian and recognizes its relationship with The United Methodist Church. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 02:11, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
 * P.S. I never agreed to you changing "United Methodist Church" to "nonsectarian" in the infobox. I will give you an option. How about we leave the religious affiliation section blank in the infobox and let the article stand as is? If you do not agree, I am afraid I will have to revert your edit. I look forward to your response. With regards, AnupamTalk 02:17, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

anumpa, that is a dubious source. It links directly to a pdf upload website. You could have written that yourself, that's what it appears like. I'm not accusing you of anything, but that's what it appears like as it doesn't link to the official website of Syracuse University. If you can provide that link through official channels of Syracuse University, that would be better serving for wikipedia and for our discoure on this subject. Manning954 (talk) 02:17, 25 March 2012 (UTC)manning954


 * Please assume good faith. As a courtesy, I uploaded the original document so that you could see it in full. The document was sent to me by Syracuse University when this issue was being discussed before. As I mentioned above, I request you to consider my offer above. If you do not, I am afraid I will have to revert. Thanks, AnupamTalk 02:21, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Anupam, what is there to revert? I changed the religious affiliation in the info box to what Syracuse University identifies itself as. There is no dispute over it's official religious affiliation which is unequivocally, nonsectarian. Feel free to add "unofficial religioius affiliation" to the info box and add United Methodist Church, but under it's official position on religious affiliation, it's nonsectarian.Manning954 (talk) 02:28, 25 March 2012 (UTC)manning954
 * You may change it to "United Methodist Church; Nonsectarian" as a compromise. If you neglect to do this within the next hour, you will be reverted and reported. I am trying to work with you here but I need your cooperation and willingness to compromise as well. Thanks, AnupamTalk 02:31, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Anupam, what? Nonsectarian by definition means no religious affiliation, it would be contradictory to put both. You can report me if you want, but it's clear that Syracuse University identifies itself as nonsectarian. It's historical ties to the United Methodist church is noted in the founding section as well as your revert in the introduction. Manning954 (talk) 02:35, 25 March 2012 (UTC)manning954

there is a clear distinction between relationship and official affiliation Manning954 (talk) 02:41, 25 March 2012 (UTC)manning954
 * I think that "United Methodist Church; nonsectarian" represents all viewpoints per WP:DUE. – Lionel (talk) 18:00, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

this is absolutely absurd. Nonsectarian by definition means no religious affiliation. It is contradictory, false, and misleading to label Syracuse University as both nonsectarian and affiliated to the United Methodist Church. Especially considering it is not affiliated with UCM or any other religious sect. I have acknowledged there is historical ties between the school and the Methodist church, which is appropriately noted in the intro as well as the founding section, but it does not belong as a label in the info box under "religious affiliation". That is officially Nonsectarian. There is a "relationship", but no official "affiliation"Manning954 (talk) 21:23, 26 March 2012 (UTC)manning954

Anupam, I noticed you removed the sources for nonsectarian. Either restore the sources for nonsectarian or I will remove your sources as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.241.179 (talk) 18:47, 4 April 2012 (UTC)