Talk:Syriac flag

Untitled
there is no evidence on who designed the flag and when, just that it must have been after Dupont-Sommer's campaign in the "early 20th century". When was this flag first designed? --dab (𒁳) 14:38, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

André Dupont-Sommer was born in 1900. I doubt he led an archaeological expedition in his teens. The relief could thus have been found any time between 1920 and 1983, and the flag could date to any time between 1920 and 1999 (when it was described in Vexilla Nostra no. 221). I would think the most likely period of origin is the 1980s or early 1990s. --dab (𒁳) 14:47, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Then you are way wrong with estimates, the first Syriac team in Sweden is Örebro Syrianska IF and you can just take a look at the logo which hasn't been changed or I can also provide you with pictures from the late 70s of the team with the flag on their shirts. This doesn't mean the flag was created that time, it only proves that it was before the 80s and 90s. The TriZ (talk)

Late 1970s sounds perfectly possible (and isnt't exactly "way off" 1980s). If you have a datable image showing the flag, it would be important. It appears it wasn't described in vexillology before 1999, at least that's the oldest reference we have. The Assyrian flag was first designed in 1968, and I suppose it is perfectly possible the Syriac flag came soon after. This would pinpoint the time of origin of this diasporic naming dispute. --dab (𒁳) 15:31, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

The design and its meaning
Kenneth Nordgren says this about the flag in Swedish,( pp. 71)

"Den syrianska flaggan föreställer en bevingad sol, som står på fyra blommor. Flaggan används internationellt som en symbol för en syriansk nationell identitet. Enligt syrianska riksförbundet började symbolen användas i början av 1900-talet efter arkeologiska upptäckter av den forntida arameiska kulturen. Solen är en symbol för det gudomliga, vingarna för relationen mellan universum och jorden och blommorna för de fyra vädersträcken. Den stiliserade figurens gula färg står för hoppet medan den röda bakgrundsfärgen symboliserar ”folkets blodutgjutelse, alltså deras lidande och förföljelse genom årtusenden”."

He says the sun is a symbol for the divine, the wings for the relation between the universe and earth, and the four flowers the four four cardinal points. The yellow color stands for hope, and the red background symbolizes the bloodshed of the people, meaning the suffering and persecutions through milleniums. His source is "Syrianer en nation i förskingring, Syriansk riksförbundet i Sverige, Södertälje 2004.". And he says that according to the Syriac national federation in Sweden, the flag was used in the begining of the 1900s, nothing new there with other words. The TriZ (talk) 23:40, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * in other words, this source is useless. It is completely impossible that the flag should date to 1900, the year of birth of the archaeologist who would go on to excavate the frieze the flag design is based on. What this article needs are quotable sources. Nobody ever seems to have though this flag worth their time to document or discuss, so that it would appear to fail WP:NOTE, and might best be merged into Aramaeanism. --dab (𒁳) 15:41, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

the earliest publication of the Tell Halaf finds appears to date to 1931. This would seem to be a definite terminus post quem for this flag design. --dab (𒁳) 15:59, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Yep, it's hard to find any good information about this. Another question is whether what the flag was called when it was designed. In Syriac, it has most likely always been called "otho suryoyeyto", but in English? Syrian flag? Syriac flag? Aramaic flag? The TriZ (talk) 21:35, 26 January 2009 (UTC)