Talk:Systemic racism

Editing policy
Please take heed of the various policies in place for editing articles, most notably the necessity of NPOV and the Three revert rule. Continuing to revert/edit this article solves nothing - if you have a particular grievance, post your comments here so that the article stays clean. If you would like to re-make the article to be more NPOV, please do so! If there is enough content to make a separate article from Racism, then by all means, go ahead. If you're new to Wikipedia, then you might benefit from reading this article on avoiding common mistakes. Cheers. Peruvianllama 04:34, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

First let me tell you and the other guy that keeps changing the article that is very rude from you to change it at your discretion on what you think is right, I don't mean to insult your intellect but for crying out loud Systemic racism is a T Y P E of racism, if you read the article about racism you'll see there are many types listed and each is a definition of its own, for that reason I included this definition, that I mean to pass to peers for them to expand it, if you are hurtful about canada being mentioned on the article, well I'm not proud of that neither, is part of history and is meant to be changed but if others don't educate about it will never change, having your own opinions don't give you any right to moderate a P U B L I C service it doesn't matter you think you have some ownership over it. And if I have to fight you both I'll do it I won't let you bully me. User:199.126.237.182 (added by Moriori).


 * You are not being bullied. In your own words above you state "Systemic racism is a T Y P E of racism". Exactly, and that's why your entry needs to be part of the Racism article. And that's why I am deleting the "Systemic racism" article. You can transfer your couple of paragraphs over there. Moriori 09:03, 28 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Welllllll, I was going to, but I see User:Peruvianllama has done a merge. Fine, if it remains that way. If it doesn't. I will delete. Moriori 09:10, 28 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Didn't hit my refresh key fast enough there, I'm afraid. Sorry for the confusion, Moriori. Peruvianllama 09:15, 28 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Indeed, no bullying intended. There we some good points, but it hardly needed an entire article. I've merged most of what you wrote into the Canada secion of the Racism article (after editing for spelling/etc), and added a link to institutional racism, which seems entirely analogous to systemic racism (i.e., racism which is prevalent throughout the entire system/institution). If I omitted any important points, feel free to add them under Racism. Peruvianllama 09:15, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Maybe no bullying intended but taking out my whole article was rude (an article that didn't exist and contributed to wikipedia), I received no warning, no help on expanding it or improving it, unless you are an expert on racism, you shouldn't hide your arguments behind some rules. From the grammatic point of view I would be commiting suicide if I use systemic racism as a racism as this forced reference wants to portray. If a person comes to wikipedia and types systemic racism, when he/she is reffered to racism you are in a deliberate way giving them wrong information or you are indeed promoting misinformation, you can be black, chinese or from any other "race" and still get a job if you got local education and experience but if your education is from another country it doen't matter if your parents are locals you could be denied employment and being socially marginalized, that's the whole reason of this term to exist. Take time to read my references, don't drop stuff in just one shot, you don't own wikipedia neither, you are a moderator you as me are a contributor, if you wanna contribute lets argue over systemic racism, let other be educated, you are not the final judge to say what is wrong or what is right, at the end is your position within wikipedia not mine. If you have read all of this you'd see I edited the Canada part with a small reference to the "social" aspect of racism.

And the piece of resistance: why scientific racism is not refferd as racism?, if you take systemic racism out you should and must take scientific racism out too and move it just under Racism. Pardon me for assuming the following, if this somehow hurts you both S O R R Y no pun intended.

Also I added how this kind of racism affects the economy, this facts gives it an unique distinction over "racism", I'm planning on add history and how other countries practice this particular kind of racism, also some peers want to add to it, you can contribute or destroy is up to you. User:199.126.237.182 (added by Peruvianllama)


 * I still fail to see how this article adds any content that is not already addressed in either Racism, or Institutionalized Racism, or both. Your article does not definte systemic racism in any terms that make it different from either of these pre-existing articles, and so a redirect seems best. Both the Racism and Institutionalized Racism articles claim to deal with the exact definition of "systemic racism" you are using: "practices... that result in the social, political and economic advantage of one group in relation to others," and "systemic... practices that have the effect of disadvantaging certain racial or ethnic groups," respectively.


 * In point of fact, systemic racism can be used to refer not only to unfair hiring practices, but to any habitual or pervasive racism that is displayed throughout any system, whether it be governmental, industrial, or whatever. So it would be unfair for Wikipedia users to search for "systemic racism", and only be presented with your short article with its narrow perspectives. The Racism article already has much of the content people will most likely be interested in, and your specific examples and links have already been added under the "Canada" section, where they are most relevant.


 * I'm not going to edit the actual article any more today, lest I offend the gods of 3RR. I've voiced my thoughts on this, and I believe Moriori is going to step in soon anyway. Peruvianllama 20:33, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

At the end it seems we got some quorum on the Institutionalized Racism (an individual term) part but not on the racism one, the Institutionalized Racism includes a phrase systemic racism doesn't: "the misuse of law or power" and that's major leagues, back there there is a very thin line between institutions and organizations misusing their powers to benefit some and being liable for their acts, and all the rest doing that (systemic racism), maybe because is a paradigm, it certainly is somehow grey. At least this proves a point, pointing to racism was far from right than pointing to Institutionalized Racism, I let the reasons you both had for you, I don't really care.

I'll discuss this term with the guys over Institutionalized Racism and see how close they are to point, include or exclude each other, instead of going there and write, delete or emit an opinion without listening the other part, and just in case, I'm not lecturing you, your (both) attitute towards me was somehow bullying even if you don't see it that way, you (both) can be that way with the rest but happens you are dealing with me and you owe me respect the same way I do to you and pointing without discussion was rude.

And I won't take offense on the "short article with its narrow perspectives", I haven't seen thesis on mayor definitions here on wikipedia, they are still evolving and that's the nature of this resource, I'm actively investigating on this issue and you certainly didn't help. The wise man lets other men do the job and shut up if he is not going to help or contribute with something useful.

And If we are going to turn this into a battle of egos lets do it, but we will be missing the inclusion of a term that enriches the vocabulary. Specific tool for the specific job and specific term for a specific situation.

Copied from About.com
This needs to be fixed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.55.55.37 (talk) 21:56, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Could you provide a link to the exact page it's copied from, we could then act on this information. Thanks.  Seagull123  Φ  20:53, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

I found the exact text here on the "Systematic Racism" page on About.com. There's little, if any difference between the two pages.Abergin13 (talk) 16:33, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Proposed Revamping
So because this entire page is copied from about.com, I would like to propose revamping it completely and nearly rewriting it. I have a list of sources on my user page that I may use when redoing the page.Abergin13 (talk) 00:27, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I have tagged this page with copyvio a few days ago. If you want to rewrite the page it would be best to do it soon as someone may delete it for being a copyright violation otherwise. (You could always make a user subpage though.) Hope this is OK.  Seagull123  Φ  22:27, 8 October 2015 (UTC)