Talk:Szczytno

Source needed asap
I find no mention to the information Molobo added at the English version of town's official website, where it is alledgely sourced. Perhaps it is in the Polish version? Such serious accusations must have a verifiable source to be granted credibility. Please, could you be more specific as to the source used? Thanks, Shauri    smil  e  !  20:58, 24 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, the following sentence newly added by Molobo is extremely strange "As Bolsheviks invaded the reborn Polish state, a plebiscite was held in 1920 to determine if Szczytno would join Poland, during which the aggresive measures of Germanisation were intensified. In this circumstances the vote results were to remain as part of Germany."


 * Bolsheviks according to wiki: "The word "Bolshevik" is sometimes used as a synonym of Communist. It was often used by right-wingers outside the Soviet Union as a derogatory term for left-wingers, not all of whom were necessarily Communists."
 * "Reborn": Rhetorical personification of the Polish state
 * "Aggressive": Subjective and often implies a threat or anger


 * While Molobo said that Germanization increased the national movement against Germany in the 19th century, he now uses the word as implication of brainwashing, as if only because the people were manipulated the vote had had that outcome. Molobo also deleted the sentence "but its inhabitants overwhelmingly voted to remain in Germany". According to the BpB the vote in 1920 ended with 97,9% in favour of becoming part of Germany. NightBeAsT 10:32, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Shauri the usage of term Bolshevik Russia is quite normal in the context of 1920 war.If you don't believe me you can ask Piotrus. --Molobo 12:32, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Molobo, now that you've accused me of not having read one of your many sources on Anti-Polonism, you haven't read this page - which is little compared with the over 500kb comprising talk:Anti-Polonism including its archives - thoroughly enough to see that it was me who analysed the part of the Bolshevics, not Shauri, who you now even bothered with the same message on her talk page. Anyway, quite honestly, I do not care whether it is "quite normal in the context of the 1920 war", because it is only a detail while the rest is important. NightBeAsT 12:46, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Nope I knew it was you but my responce was to Shauri because she is an admin.I wanted her to know that your responce was implying something not correct.

--Molobo 12:53, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah sure! C'mon, Molobo, please! I remember the boy who cried "wolf" (if you know the saying). Now if you could please provide sources of your changes that matter? I, too, was unable to find your "facts" in the text of the official site although you said in your edit summary that you "added info from town site". Oh, but I found facts that are on the town site that you deleted. NightBeAsT 16:05, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

You complained to Shauri trying to imply that I am insulting somebody, I responded to her that this is not the case. Also I already gave you translation of text from Polish page of the town page on the talk, as well information from Polish Encyclopedia on plebiscite

NB:The usage fo Bolshevik is quite normal during the period of Civil War in Russia: http://home.golden.net/~medals/1918-1921war.html The Battle of Warsaw, 1920. Between the 13th and 16th of August, 1920, a battle raged in and around Warsaw between Polish and Bolshevik forces. --Molobo 12:37, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Information from the town site: http://www.um.szczytno.pl/p.php?po=historia Okres plebiscytu wzmógł agresję zwolenników germanizacji. Dochodziło do napadów i pobić działaczy ruchu polskiego, rozpędzano wiece i spotkania. Po przegranym plebiscycie, mimo nieustającego terroru, w 1922r. powołano do życia Samopomoc Mazurską. Rok później powstała w Szczytnie nowa organizacja - Zjednoczenie Mazurskie i zaczął ukazywać się "Mazurski Przyjaciel Ludu”. Walkę o polską szkołę w pobliskim Piasutnie przypłacił życiem Jerzy Lanc. Direct translation: The time of plebiscite increased the aggression of supporters of Germanisation.Attacks and beatings took place against Polish activists.Meetings and rallies were dispersed by force.After lost plebiscite desite unending terror, in 1922 Masurian Selfhelp was founded.Year later a new organisation was founded Masurian Unity and a newspaper called was edited Masurian Folk Friend.The fight for polish school in nearby Piastun costed the life of Jerzy Lanc. --Molobo 12:44, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Polish encyclopedia(this is a normal encyclopedia that has been copied to internet) on the plebiscite in Mazury: http://encyklopedia.pwn.pl/58502_1.html Plebiscyt na Warmii i Mazurach odbył się VII 1920 w okresie ofensywy bolszewickiej na Warszawę, toteż większość głosujących opowiedziała się za przynależnością do Niemiec; Direct translation: Plebiscite on Warmia and Mazury took place on VII 1920 during the bolshevik offensive against Warsaw, that is why most of people decided to belong to Germany. --Molobo 12:51, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Oertel
Does anyone know if this is where the surname Oertel originated? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.218.145.112 (talk) 21:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Naming
I think we should add old baltic name "Sedone". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Karolis-lt (talk • contribs) 09:14, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Jerzy Lanc
Any details about the death of Jerzy Lanc ? (217.184.150.77 (talk) 14:08, 10 February 2008 (UTC))

I seem to have misplaced my copy of "Na tropach Smętka" (I recently moved), but if I remember correctly he was found dead one day from supposedly gas poisoning. Before that he received many death threats. Let me look for Wańkowicz again. Regards, Space Cadet (talk) 18:35, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Expanded
The article, added more on history, locations, added double naming, removed not needed categories.--Molobo (talk) 18:45, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Polish King
What has the Polish King done there in 1628/29 ? Was it the official seat of government / exile or anything like that - or did he just sleep there for a night? 84.139.251.208 (talk) 07:48, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I removed
Some strange unsupported statements by anon. Also the sourced info was manipulated.--Molobo (talk) 21:35, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

The area wasn't known as Szczytno before its foundation to "local Slavic people", the inhabitants were Old Prussians, the Masurians arrived from the South later on. So it's wrong to start with a sentence claiming the name Szczytno was used by the local populace and afterwards the Knights founded a town called Ortelsburg, it's just the other way around. And this information IS included. 84.139.207.211 (talk) 10:53, 16 August 2008 (UTC) If you believe the city's authorties are wrong, contact them. As for now your claims are unsourced.--Molobo (talk) 11:02, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Huh?
What does "in extraordinary renditions" mean in ordinary English? Sca (talk) 13:57, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Sources edited/written by Nazi authors, abuse of primary sources by User:Kaiser von Europa
This edit (along with several others) uses primary sources, which may be biased, for potentially controversial information. This violates the Wikipedia policy WP:PRIMARY.

The same edit uses a source, Handbuch der historischen Stätten, edited by the Nazi author Erich Weise and with contributions from other authors from Nazi Germany. Per WP:RS this is not a reliable source and should not be used in this or other articles.

Furthermore it looks like an effort is being made to obfuscate the nature of this source, by omitting the fact that Weise was the editor and instead only listing a few of the authors (like Kurt Forstreuter, another Nazi). On top of that the ISBN number of the book is being omitted. Note that previously the same editor included this information in his previous edits, but when concerns were raised about the nature of this source and Erich Weise, began omitting it. This suggests strongly that the editor in question is fully aware that this is a problematic source and is making bad faithed attempts to hide it.

Please do not restore this info without providing modern, reliable, secondary sources. Volunteer Marek 13:38, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Improper Italicization
There is also no grammatical or expository reason to italicize former German names of now-Polish localities in the areas given to postwar Poland under border changes promulgated at the Potsdam Conference. In English, italics usually denote foreign (non-English) words for things or concepts, but not place names. Prior to 1945, Szczytno was officially Ortelsburg, not Ortelsburg, and the German name should not be italicized.

The automatic italicization of former German names of now-Polish or -Russian places misleads casual English-speaking readers to think the former, historically actual German names are merely German versions of pre-existing Polish or Russian place-names, which often is not the case. Sca (talk) 21:29, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Red herring
As far as I can figure out from Polish WP, Mazurski Przyjaciel Ludu was published during the interwar period in Allenstein (Olsztyn), not Ortelsburg (Szczytno) — thus irrelevant to this article. Sca (talk) 15:21, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Propaganda
This page is littered with Polish political and nationalist propaganda. Sources cited for this rubbish are, of course, Polish. This should be unacceptable on the English-language Wikipedia, which fanatical polish nationalists now use as a propaganda vehicle for their fantasies. 2A00:23C4:B617:7D01:5D62:4B4F:12B3:2268 (talk) 10:47, 27 December 2021 (UTC)


 * What Polish propaganda? Could you point it out. And as for this "Polish language references are unacceptable on the English-language Wikipedia. Changing the German names to Polish is wrong", a source in any language is acceptable on any Wikipedia. and removing all the political propaganda and fictions, didn't the Nazis suppress any non-nazi political organization? Bingo bro   (Chat)  10:52, 27 December 2021 (UTC)